[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
KSM: Shit, why not back up further and reference FDR in WWII and Truman in Korea (and finishing WWII as well.)
JFK did indeed put us on the road to full-fledged involvement in Vietnam, and LBJ expanded both military and intelligence operations there, culminating in 500,000 Americans in Vietnam at the height of operations.
Clinton was heavily invested in the anti-Hussein push, including the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, Operation Desert Fox and a sustained embargo that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. Other than that, he was a real humanitarian.[/quote]
It’s always, ah ha, they are all the same… but I still prefer the right-wing type of argument.
Democrats learned from Vietnam and that’s why they didn’t want Iraq.
Republicans, for a time, also learned from Vietnam and didn’t want any kind of nation building. But then they flipped on Iraq.
On Vietnam, Nixon secretly negotiated with the Vietcongs to leave in 1972. Then Ford pulled us out of Vietnam with our tail between our legs, leaving our Vietnamese friends in the South swamped by the Communists.
For many reasons, the Vietnam War was unwinnable, but couldn’t Nixon and Ford have worked out a more honorable exit? I would argue that the malaise that ensued during the Carter years, were because we got so humiliated in Vietnam.
On Iraq, you are saying that American sanctions killed hundred of thousands of Iraqi children. I may agree with you there. But I don’t think that Clinton’s sanctions in any way equal Bush’s invasion of Iraq. It’s a false equivalence.[/quote]
Give that a read and then tell me about a false equivalence. For years, Lefties have been trying to obscure Clinton’s involvement in Iraq and the human toll as a result. Also obscured is the fact that the US had operational plans in place to invade Iraq that were drawn up during the Clinton Administration and Clinton had seriously considered this option. Being the consummate politician, however, he did not. That didn’t prevent him from bombing the shit out of Iraq and enforcing punishing sanctions against Hussein, which exacted a horrific human toll, especially against the elderly, infirm and children.
On Vietnam, you need to read up on the “Vietnamization” program, along with the Cooper-Church Amendment and Case-Church Amendment. Congress had quite an active hand in how the Vietnam War ended. Not holding Nixon or Ford blameless, but it’s interesting that you omit Congress and their responsibilities inherent to the prosecution of wars.
It’s also interesting to note the deafening silence on the Left, following the fall of Saigon in April, 1975. Leading Leftists like Noam Chomsky, Tom Hayden and Robert Scheer suddenly clammed up when it became apparent that North Vietnam wasn’t quite the benevolent liberator they had imagined.
Both sides suck equally and ALL politicians are lying shitbags. You’ll find that if you work from that premise, history becomes easily understood.
