[quote=AN][quote=Arraya]http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/
“Universal” health care plans have been running in many rich western countries for decades, and while there are no perfect systems, and cost pressures build up there as well, the satisfaction level to date is generally high, much higher than in the US. While at the same time the costs of these systems are way lower than anything the US has been able to come up with. So why the extensive talk, why does the US need to re-invent the wheel? Just look around and pick a tried and true system, like Norway, France, Germany. They’re all cheaper and they all function better. And if you don’t believe that, ask yourself why none of these countries is presently involved in exasperating talks about their systems.
So why does Washington try to invent the wheel? The answer is easy. The difference between US and Western European health care lies exclusively in the political power acquired by corporate industries, in this case -mainly- a combination of drug manufacturers (closely linked to the chemical industry) and insurance companies (which are in turn closely linked to Wall Street banks). The US needs to fabricate its own system because it needs to satisfy the perverted influence industry has on not just health care itself, but also on the political process.
US health care spending is over 15% of GDP, and within 10 years it will be 20% (there’s your bubble). That means today’s dollar total is about $2.2 trillion (that’s Britain’s entire GDP), and we’re on our way to $3 trillion. If the US would adopt a Western European system, it might save 50% of these costs. And a few very powerful corporations would lose $1 trillion per year in revenues. That’s all you need to know about the reason why there will be no significant reform. Sick people are big business. And big business runs the nation.[/quote]
Can you let me know which rich western country have the immigration problem we have today? Which western country have the obesity problem we have today?
The link I posted on the last page shows that “More than 25% of the increase in medical costs between 1987 and 2001 is attributable to obesity and obesity-related conditions such as hypertension and diabetes, according to a new report from the non-partisan Urban Institute.” Today, 30-32% of American between 20-74 are obese. Based on the graph they provided, in 1987, about 15% of American were obese. Even more staggering: “And today, close to 20% of children are obese, up from 4% four decades ago.” “Come 2015, it is estimated that 40% of American adults will be obese, which is more than double the rate 40 years ago.”
“All told, 9% of health spending last year — or more than $200 billion — was spent on obesity-related costs, according to Urban Institute. Half of that bill was footed by taxpayers through Medicare and Medicaid.” So, today alone, we’re spending about $0.2 trillion on obesity. If they estimate that in just 6 years, obesity level will increase by ~30%, we should be looking to spend another $70 Billion just on obesity alone.
So in the grand total of $ that you posted, a pretty decent portion is caused by obesity alone. I don’t have the number on illegal immigrants burden on our health care system, but I think it’s a pretty large chunk as well.
BTW, talking about general philosophy of universal health care is all well and good, but what do you think about the specifics of the House Bill? Please look up meadandale’s post on page 5. Do you agree with those things?[/quote]
Ironically, in the decades that have passed since the halt to immigration, more immigrants have come to Europe than in preceding decades. Indeed, by looking at the number of immigrants in various countries, it would be difficult to determine how far back the block had been implemented in practice. In the Netherlands, for example, the number of first- and second-generation Moroccan and Turkish immigrants has increased almost tenfold (see Table 1) since the 1974 halt.
Europe most certainly does have “immigration problems,” but they are the Turks, Moroccans and others from Eastern Europe and Africa. My maternal family is Austrian, and they have been complaining about the “illegal immigrants” for quite a few years.
And yes…the immigration problem there is most definitely a drain on their more socialized systems. Many western Europeans believe the immigrants are destroying European culture and decimating the social safety nets they’ve worked so hard to build up.
One thing is true…you cannot have an effective, socialized healthcare system in a country that freely allows (encourages?) an unlimited number of poor immigrants to enter the country and automatically “qualify” for all the benefits.
