Today’s Voice of San Diego article discusses the absurdity of the "everyone wants to live here" meme that is constantly invoked in the endless quest to defend current home prices. Citing a city’s desirability as a perfectly good reason for home prices to rise rapidly and in great excess of income growth just doesn’t make that much sense. And it makes even less sense when you consider that San Diego doesn’t appear that desirable after all, as the trend towards slowing population growth (and, most recently, shrinkage) reveals:
But it’s even worse than the above graph depicts, because much of the population growth of recent years has been due to births. Until Countrywide goes live with their Fetal Lending Division, we can probably just focus on migration: people moving in and out of San Diego (or, put another way, population growth with the effects of births and deaths removed):
For three years running, more people have moved out of San Diego than have moved in—and the trend is strengthening. Yet this latest dip in the level raw population (pictured in the first chart) has been characterized by various housing pundits as stunning, temporary, and irrelevant to home prices. If you say so.
Today’s U-T article had more
Today’s U-T article had more spin stories from builder associations about the lack of available housing. While the headline is accurate, “Expert says prices may cause county population to drop”, some of the experts quoted are more interested in lobbying for their organizations than in informing the reader. Roger Showley, the writer, interviewed several people from industry trade groups without providing a counter point.
The California Building Industry Association’s January 2006 report underscores the need for much more construction to meet our demand for housing:
“Layne Marceau, 2006 CBIA Chairman and a Bay Area homebuilder, said that production still is not keeping up with the demand for new homes and apartments, and says that the industry could finally meet the statewide housing need if state and local barriers that restrain production and drive up costs were removed.
The annual demand for new homes in California continues to be in the 240,000 range, but this year production will only be about 80 percent of the total need, which is hurting potential and existing homebuyers struggling to enter or move up in the market.” Marceau said. END QUOTE
Darn, that housing shortage problem again!
I love it when simple data
I love it when simple data tells a clear story.
This kind of information is what makes this website truly great in my opinion.
Cut through the crap. Here’s the numbers. Make your own conclusion.
Well explained, Rich.
This
Well explained, Rich.
This is a matter of smoke and mirrors around a central truth: Yes, people are willing to spend more to live in San Diego. Since 1979 and probably before that (I’m looking at the Affordability data from the NY Times article from a few months ago), the San Diego area has been considerably less affordable than the rest of the country. It’s safe to assume that this is due to the overall desirability of living there.
However, it’s one thing to pay more to live somewhere, and it’s another thing to pay more than you could possibly afford. Affordability (expressed as the percent of annual income required to purchase a median existing home at prevailing mortgage rates and terms) in the US since 1979 has varied between 17.0 (in 1993 and 1998) and 30.5 (in 1981). In San Diego, it’s varied between 25.8 (in 1996) and 55.9 (in 1981). Right now it’s right around that high again, and of course that would be much worse with higher interest rates.
I’m willing to accept that people are willing to pay 30-35% of their income on a home purchase, over the national average of 20-25%, for the benefit of living in San Diego. But over 50%? I don’t think so.
I’d love to live there when
I’d love to live there when I retire in 3 years. But it’s very expensive. On the other hand — you can’t beat that weather! Maybe prices will be a bit cheaper by then. For those of you thinking you may want to escape out of there, you should look into Fort Collins, CO. I lived there when I first moved to Colorado 16 years ago and it was great. There is one major drawback for Californians: no Trader Joe’s anywhere in CO.
Plus snow, hail and other
Plus snow, hail and other generally violent weather. You don’t have Polar bears native there do you?
Josh
No, just black bear. But
No, just black bear. But they hibernate during the snow times. Hail season comes during the summer, when we have a downpour for an hour every Noon. The bear awake just in time for the start of tornado season. 😉
Picpoule (a fun French
Picpoule (a fun French wine!)
I grew up in Ft. Collins and there is no better place to raise kids. Colorado is counter-cyclical to CA, so the market is turning.
Since we’re now discussing
Since we’re now discussing Colorado…
I presently live in Colorado Springs. I grew up in Escondido, graduated from SDSU and have been in the Navy for 18 years. Almost 11 of those years have been in San Diego.
I took orders here to see what Colorado was like. Except for a few bitter cold days, we have not been disappointed. In addition to the area being beautiful, the people are great. And there is no wacky liberal influence on our local government, at least down in the Springs. Boulder and Fort Collins are a different story, but the quantity isn’t enough to screw up our state government like has happened in CA. Our city council even rejected spousal benefits for same sex partners of city employees. The discrimination arguments so in vogue in the Blue States don’t fly here.
My wife, who is from CA, loves it here and doesn’t want to go back to CA. I am on the fence. Fortunately, the Navy is bring us back to San Diego this summer, so the dispute about where to live is settled…for now. CO was nice while it lasted.
Personally, I think San Diego is still the best place to live in the U.S., but with caveats. You must have money because unlike Colorado one must really pick their neighborhood and have such means so they can isolate themselves from all the negatives that CA now has.
Two years ago, my wife and I were visiting Mesa Verde National Park in western CO. I met a retired couple who were originally from New York, had spent most of their working lives in Seattle and had recently retired in Carlsbad. The wife had very negative things to say about Colorado and thought San Diego was paradise. I told them that I was from North County but now lived in Colorado (and loved it). After enduring more negative statements and me telling them about the many drawbacks of CA, I finally said to them, “the only way I would retire in San Diego is if I could either live in East County (e.g. Jamul) or in a gated community.” The man then admitted that they lived in a gated community. I asked him if his stress level was lower behind those gates, and he said yes and that he always felt better behind the gates.
This is what San Diego is coming to. What we have in most places in Colorado for a reasonable price, one must pay alot of money for in San Diego. If you have the money, it’s wonderful. Just ask all the rich people in protected enclaves like Rancho Santa Fe and Malibu. But if you are a working-class guy, you have to deal with the negatives every time you leave your driveway and sometimes while you are at home.
I suspect we will end up back here in Colorado Springs. Wives usually win.
Lets not forget, none of
Lets not forget, none of those wacky liberals, especially not in the Springs. Isn’t Colorado Springs the home of angry Jesus, why yes it is!
You do make some very good points though. Especially about having to have alot of money to have a decent quality of life here.
As far as the negatives go though, you only made allusions as to what they might be, would you care to elaborate, or are these the types of things best left unsaid?
This site is all about dispelling myth and replacing it with hard fact. The fact is that San Diego has a very low crime rate for the size of the city it is. Violent crime is less likely here than most major cities, so why is it that both you and the elderly retired couple would feel so much safer behind gates? I have my suspicions, but I’ll wait for you reply.
PS I grew up in Valley Center and am intimately familiar with Escondido.
Josh
I am amused at the number of
I am amused at the number of people I meet who have never been here but spout the same stereotype about Colorado Springs. Everyone is an expert…just read the New York Times.
We have adult book stores, strip bars, gay bars, and a nearby community called Manitou Springs that makes Boulder look conservative. We also have a five-star resort called the Broadmoor where the rich and famous come to visit. Gay rights and anti-war protesters routinely march through downtown and area parks. Even athiest groups occasionally protest, especially on religious holidays. It isn’t all churches. There is plenty of vice here.
As for the negatives of San Diego, how about choking traffic, long commutes, high taxes, unfriendly people, land use restrictions, overbearing firearms laws, small parking places, and higher prices for nearly everything (relative to CO). Why is an avocado grown in Fallbrook nearly $2.00 at a Safeway in Escondido and 89 cents here? And why must I sit in a left turn lane with a red arrow and not be allowed to make my turn when there is no traffic oncoming. In Colorado, if the light is green and you can make your left turn without causing an accident, you proceed. It’s like the traffic engineers in CA do not trust drivers and their judgment, perhaps a larger reflection of the government.
Upon moving in to our house here, our neighbors all came over and introduced themselves. I have spend many days and evenings partying with the neighbors, which include a doctor and several business owners. The night the doctor’s daughter stopped breathing, no less than three families came over to help, rather than peer from the curtains as the ambulance arrived. My wife and I spent the night at the hospital with the family and helped them through the ordeal which included two more instances when breathing stopped. Two years ago before going on vacation, we gave a housekey to a neighbor and have never asked for it back. We developed some great friendships in our neighborhood that we will both miss. I have never experienced this in CA, both the friendliness and being to afford to live in a neighborhood of professionals.
Until you have lived elsewhere, you don’t see the differences because you have nothing to which to compare CA.
I have also lived in Washington DC and found life there more stressful that CA. After two years in DC, I was happy to return to CA.
You are correct sir, I have
You are correct sir, I have never been to the Springs. The closest I have been was at xmas when my girlfriend and I went back to Denver to see her folks. However I directly work with 2 people in my office that do, and since my girlfriends father is a judge in Denver I have gotten quite an eye opener as to what it is like down there.
You are also in some sense quite accurate in your depiction of life here, at least in parts of the city/county. So let me ask a two part question; if these things are true, why would you want to live here and why would millions of other people as well?
My best friend just left San Diego in Dec to move to Kansas for many of those reasons. He lived in Escondido. I live in Northpark where I do know some of my neighbors. I often don’t lock my doors and certainly don’t fear for my life. I also commute against traffic to Klantee for work.
As to living elsewhere, fair enough. I have only lived here, Palos Verdes as a very young child and 2 years in Santa Barbara for city college. I readily admit that there are large swaths of this country I have never been too and or lived in. I have however travlled quite extensively both domestically and internationally and I still think this is one of the best places on earth.
This site is mainly about the economic factors that influence peoples housing decisions, but lets face it, desire and emotion play a huge role as well. The questions I ask you, I would ask in a more general context. Are the factors that attract people here getting stronger, or weaker relative to the factors that are driving people away?
Is the type of person attracted to that change the kind of person who is more or less able to afford living here and how can we know?
Josh
I agree totally with you.
I agree totally with you. People often confuse mild weather with the prime focus of quality of their life. A very expensive part of location. The weather is definitely on the high side of my list, but I have lived in more extreme climes and ALWAYS found ways to entertain myself and family and didnt mind it. If its snowing, we go skiing or ride snowmobiles…etc. Here in San Diego, most people arent even aware that there’s a damned ocean just a few blocks west of them !
I used to surf frequently and have since childhood, now I cant get in the water without getting severe ear infections as many others do also, now I sit in my expensive (rental) condo and watch the TV more and more, the hassles, logistics and traffic to go to the beach for a few hours is beyond my desire to cope most of the time now, parking, parking fee’s, congestion etc…..Go fishing instead ? NOT A CHANCE ! No fish, Over fishing is a HUGE issue the last 10 years and the ones you can catch are questionable health wise to eat. What else ? Go Play golf and quit whining !! Okay…. I do that too, but a 5-6 hour round for 50 plus bucks ? No thanks, I dont want to do it that badly.
So I took my family to a park for a picnic one fine Saturday and I’ll be damned if it wasnt RIGHT in the middle of a Gay Pride Parade that fired up about an hour after we arrived ! Just my luck, we left there soon after, as we didnt want to get caught in the crossfire between the fanatical groups on either side of the issue should a situation develop.
Im considering moving also, but not Colorado yet, probably Hawaii in the next few years.
I can afford San Diego, its the inconvience of congestion and everything else I could do without, and that will be a big part of my decision to leave here when I do….Im almost ready, I’ve just about had enough.
“When is it worth paying the
“When is it worth paying the price to stay in San Diego” is the question.
For someone who is passionate about surfing, paying to live by the beach is worth it. There is no substitute in middle America or on the east coast.
I have a friend who lives a few blocks from the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area in Ventura County. He paid alot for his house, more than for a comparable home in San Diego. But for the hiking and open space, it was worth it to him. I would probably spend the money too to be able to have such awesome and little-used open space for recreation.
But if you are going to just live in a house and not take advantage of things like the beach, Mission Bay, the mountains, the desert, Mexico, gaslamp, etc., I cannot see paying the differential.
It appears crime rates in
It appears crime rates in Colorado Springs and San Diego are much more similar than different, based on this comparison >>> http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/?city1=7320&city2=1720
I have a feeling your statement that “you have to deal with the negatives every time you leave your driveway and sometimes while you are at home.” may include other “things” besides “choking traffic, long commutes, high taxes, unfriendly people, land use restrictions, overbearing firearms laws, small parking places” and the high price of avocados.
Interesting note: Colorado Springs is nearly 81% white.
Is it possible to live in a gated community without gates?
Any police officer will tell
Any police officer will tell you that crime tends to be concentrated in specific areas, rather than a city-wide phonemonenon. So I am not surprised if we have a higher crime rate here. Fortunately, it is all nearly immediately east, south and west of downtown, sort of like San Diego’s crime is mostly south of I-8.
Regarding where we live, the neighborhood is called “The Broadmoor.” For less than half a million dollars, we live in a neighborhood where the only crime is construction sites getting ripped off before the house is finished, pretty minor compared to the alternatives. That’s it. My biggest concern is getting attacked by a mountain lion after dark. Other minor irritants include cleaning deer poop off our lawn. We have alot of deer wandering around.
About once a year, someone drives by with their stereo too loud. And I can’t remember the last time I heard a siren. It is great to walk outside and not hear the dull roar of a freeway or surface street. A gentle breeze coming off the mountain sounds much better than vehicle noise.
So for what our house is worth, I could buy a 1960’s box on 8000 square feet in Clairemont. But I would rather have 4 bedrooms on 1/3 of an acre with large swaths of undevelopable greenbelt between houses. It’s also great that we cannot park on the street or even in our driveways overnight. All cars must be in the garage, which are a minimum of three cars in size. It gives the neighborhood a much cleaner look. I don’t miss seeing vehicles in driveways, especially those that are broken down and haven’t moved for months. Ditto for motorhomes. You don’t notice the difference until you have lived in it.
I have heard the innuendo that Colorado Springs is a white racist bigot homophobe (did I miss any of the common names?) city. Your statement that Colorado Springs is nearly 81% white leads me to believe that you think so. Quick comparison of the demographics with Colorado Springs listed first and the U.S. as a whole in parentheses: White – 81% (U.S. 82%); Black – 7% (U.S. 13%); Asian – 3% (U.S. 4%); Native American 1% (U.S. 1%); Hispanic 12% (U.S. 13%); Other 5%; 2 or more races 4%. I could find no U.S. data on the latter two. Don’t forget that Hispanics are now included in the “white” category.
Given the above, it appears that Colorado Springs is more a reflection of the U.S. as a whole than San Diego. And I’m sure the Black percentage would be higher if the census takers took into account the five military installations in the area.
With regard to my area, a Black man lives across the street, a retired Hispanic couple lives caddycorner to the left (they are from Santa Rosa, CA), and an Asian couple lives two doors up. There is even a gay male couple down the street.
As for the city, our mayor’s name is Lionel Rivera, and our police chief’s name is Luis Velez. Both are Mexican-American. The mayor is the favorite to replace our present Congressman, who is retiring this year. The majority of voters here don’t care about race. We only want a Conservative representing us in Washington, D.C. A person’s character is more important than their race.
The vast majority of our growth is coming from in-migration from CA and TX. Given the large number of CA plates I see in town without base stickers on the windshield, I suspect we are getting alot of the out-migration that CA is experiencing. Standard advice from realtors here is to lose the CA plates ASAP.
I went to a rodeo last summer. The announcer asked how many in the audience were from Texas. There was a small rise in the noise level. When he asked the same about CA, there was no change. Finally, he asked how many in the audience were from CA but won’t admit it. Again, no change, but his question said it all.
We are getting some of California’s out-migration. I suspect high real estate prices there and the ability to pay cash for a house in Colorado with capital gains from CA are at least partially responsible.
“Standard advice from
“Standard advice from realtors here is to lose the CA plates ASAP.”
And here I thought everyone in CO was so “friendly”. Maybe that’s why you are troubled by “overbearing firearms laws”.
“Upon moving in to our house here, our neighbors all came over and introduced themselves.”
I guess you lost the CA plates ASAP.
“All cars must be in the garage, which are a minimum of three cars in size. It gives the neighborhood a much cleaner look.”
So. I see you actually like forms of Big Government.
“We only want a Conservative representing us in Washington, D.C. A person’s character is more important than their race.”
Yep, the line forms right here. From Santorum to DeLay to George ‘n’ Dick and on down to Randy “Duke” Cunningham, we are definitely well-stocked with characters in DC.
And in jail.
You sound bitter. My sister
You sound bitter. My sister in law and her husband are both college professors in Michigan. Your lines sound like what they say when they get mad. The similarities are uncanny. Except they love to visit us here. The neighorhood is wonderful, and they get away from their unhappy colleagues.
We moved to CO from Kansas, so CA plates were not an issue
Covenants that regulate neighborhoods are not government. Rather, they are something that all homeowners agree to when moving in. If you don’t like the covenants, don’t buy in the neighborhood.
I see you hate conservatives.
“sort of like San Diego’s
“sort of like San Diego’s crime is mostly south of I-8.”
Really? Your statement seems to be far from reality…
http://www.sandiego.gov/police/pdf/actualsjandec2005.pdf
http://www.sdsheriff.net/DepartmentServices/2004_Local_Crime.pdf
I’m curious why you assumed “San Diego’s crime is mostly south of I-8.” Could you elaborate on why you thought this to be the case?
“We only want a Conservative representing us in Washington, D.C. A person’s character is more important than their race.”
We do? Are you sure?
“There is even a gay male couple down the street.”
Uh oh. There goes the neighborhood.
By the way, do you happen to know where you can get a really good bowl of pho in Colorado Springs?
“It’s like the traffic
“It’s like the traffic engineers in CA do not trust drivers and their judgment, perhaps a larger reflection of the government.”
Government? Hmmm… Let me get this “Right”…
It’s bad when government defines traffic patterns and it’s good when government (Colorado Springs School Board – 2004) defines “family”.
Also, any ideas why DC was more “stressful” than CA???
Big difference between the
Big difference between the two: With regard to traffic, this is a slow addition of driving restrictions. I remember when restricted left turn lanes with red arrows started appearing in the early 1980’s. They have grown exponentially since then and are now the rule rather than the exception. With regard to family (I assume you are addressing my previous comment on same sex benefits), the City Council didn’t change anything. They maintained the status quo by rejecting a bill to grant benefits…in other words, nothing changed.
By the way, there is no “Colorado Springs School Board.” We have many independent school districts in the city that operate apart from the the city and county and reflect the desires of the parents. So I am not sure where you got your information.
With regard to DC, the traffic is horrendous. One stretch of I-66 is carpool only (3 per vehicle) during rush hour. The beltway and I-395 make LA traffic look light. Unless you are a senior officer, senior civil servant or have a carpool permit, plan on paying for parking or riding Metro because parking is so limited. Research “slug line” on the internet for more on the game of carpooling. It is a legitimate reason to leave a meeting before it’s over because “I have to catch my carpool.” People move to DC temporarily to make a name for themselves in government or even private industry. Many are hyper competitive and cutthroat. In 1993, one prominent politician said that “in DC, ruining people is considered sport.” Finally, the town remains on edge since 9-11. There is fear of another attack.
In defense of SD, I know 3
In defense of SD, I know 3 people in San Diego who have close relationships with their neighbors, and could count on them during times of personal illness, cancer, etc.
Nice people live everywhere, and the unifying factor seems to be having 1 or 2 people in the neighborhood who get everyone connected. Without them, any block becomes just a collection of houses.
I am amused at the number of
I am amused at the number of people I meet who have never been here but spout the same stereotype about Colorado Springs. Everyone is an expert…just read the New York Times.
We have adult book stores, strip bars, gay bars, and a nearby community called Manitou Springs that makes Boulder look conservative. We also have a five-star resort called the Broadmoor where the rich and famous come to visit. Gay rights and anti-war protesters routinely march through downtown and area parks. Even athiest groups occasionally protest, especially on religious holidays. It isn’t all churches. There is plenty of vice here.
As for the negatives of San Diego, how about choking traffic, long commutes, high taxes, unfriendly people, land use restrictions, overbearing firearms laws, small parking places, and higher prices for nearly everything (relative to CO). Why is an avocado grown in Fallbrook nearly $2.00 at a Safeway in Escondido and 89 cents here? And why must I sit in a left turn lane with a red arrow and not be allowed to make my turn when there is no traffic oncoming. In Colorado, if the light is green and you can make your left turn without causing an accident, you proceed. It’s like the traffic engineers in CA do not trust drivers and their judgment, perhaps a larger reflection of the government.
Upon moving in to our house here, our neighbors all came over and introduced themselves. I have spend many days and evenings partying with the neighbors, which include a doctor and several business owners. The night the doctor’s daughter stopped breathing, no less than three families came over to help, rather than peer from the curtains as the ambulance arrived. My wife and I spent the night at the hospital with the family and helped them through the ordeal which included two more instances when breathing stopped. Two years ago before going on vacation, we gave a housekey to a neighbor and have never asked for it back. We developed some great friendships in our neighborhood that we will both miss. I have never experienced this in CA, both the friendliness and being to afford to live in a neighborhood of professionals.
Until you have lived elsewhere, you don’t see the differences because you have nothing to which to compare CA.
I have also lived in Washington DC and found life there more stressful that CA. After two years in DC, I was happy to return to CA.
To be fair, I should add
To be fair, I should add things one can do in San Diego but not here: Year-round hiking in different climates, tinkering in the garage in the winter, four-wheeling and dirt biking in the desert, weekends in San Felipe, and my annual week-long four-wheel drive trip to Baja, which I greatly miss.
I am willing to pay more to live in San Diego, but not the present rate.
Gone to Colorado’s words
Gone to Colorado’s words should be heeded. I moved to North County from Maine back in the fall of ’97 after college. I landed a pretty decent job at one of the cities there and looked around to buy a home. Maybe it was my upbringing in Maine, and all the open space and land that clouded my judgement out here. I kept holding out for something better. Little did I or many others know that the market was going to go through the roof. I have always wanted to check out Colorado, but I am partial to being near the coast. My wife and I live in a 2B/2B in La Costa. We’ve been here for a little over 4 years and our rent has gone up only $75 in that time ($925 to $1000). We are doing the traditional family thing, having her stay at home, while I also work from home. So we don’t have that second income coming in. We think that raising our child (and future children) in this way will pay off in the long run.
At any rate, there are definitely some drawbacks, like Gone to Colorado pointed out. Traffic is at the top of my list. There also is not the neighborly feel here that you get elsewhere. There are people that have been in the same complex as me and I haven’t said a word to them other than “Hi”. Another drawback are the pompous “California Native” types who always bitch and moan about all the people that have come to the state…like they think they are Native American or something. They don’t seem to mind how their own home prices have increased 10-fold in some areas due to the increased demand brought on by “implants”. They are also the ones who either bought, or are inheriting the 2800sf home in Point Loma that they or their parents bought in 1963 for $30k. And then have the nerve to look down at others because they can’t afford to buy the same home now that it’s going for $800k.
At least San Diego (sans Hillcrest) has a good base of conservatives who believe in traditional family values relative to the rest of the state. I agree with the multitude of contributors here that the California dream is not all it’s cracked up to be. I personally know several people/families who have either lived here for a while and left or came out here for a short time and left because the home prices are too high, everything is too expensive, and many of the jobs don’t pay very well, not to mention that you have to drive two hours one way just to get there (e.g., the classic Murrieta/Temecula to San Diego commute). At least that’s how it is for a majority of middle class people. From what I’ve heard, it’s the middle class that makes or breaks a community, city, country, etc., and they are leaving San Diego/North County en masse.
Demographically, I see a sizeable population of wealthy people who have either been here for a while or are descendants of those who have; an increasing immigrant population that tends to be situated in the lower economic range, and a dwindling middle class that is paying for their education and hospital bills, and anything else the govenment can think of and the wealthy can avoid via their accountants. Just pure venting here…I have no hard data to back any of these statements up. And I am a descendant of immigrants myself.
I find it endlessly amusing
I find it endlessly amusing when people put narrow conditions on the community in which they will live in an attempt to support their narrow thinking and then complain about how long it takes to drive there. Once you’ve battled the traffic on 5 or 15 to reach your gated enclave, you wonder why nobody says “hello.” It’s because they are looking at you with the same suspicion you have for them, “Are they enough like me that I can trust them. They did buy in the same fortified sub-division, so maybe. . . or maybe not, I mean they do look a little brown. Or is that a sun tan?”
This is the attitude that turned San Diego from a laidback beach town paradise to Orange County South. You can have your “good base of conservatives” along with the people they choose to govern them, like Roger “where’s my cocaine” Hedgecock, Susan “realtywhore” Golding, Dick “resign before I get recalled” Murphy, Duke “eight years in the penn” Cunningham, not to mention the indicted city counsel. You wonder about out migration? It isn’t just the housing prices, it’s the people.
People in other cities are
People in other cities are friendlier? This is a funny story (since we’re OT anyway): just before we moved, I had invited one of my neighbors over, a lady who had lived in that same house since the 1970’s. As I walked her back to her car, my other neighbor, who’d lived there since 1996, came by to pick up his son from a playdate. I said hi to him and she looked surprised, and I realized they had never met! I introduced them. Can you believe that?
Anyway, I love San Diego, mainly for the weather, and Poway is a beautiful place to live. I rarely deal w/ traffic, the scenery is beautiful, both street landscaping and open spaces maintained. We have only a couple gated communities, as they are not popular here, and there is no need to live behind iron bars. Gates remind me of iron bars on windows.
The liberal views are welcome to me. Everyone deserves the same rights, including gays. Go see Brokeback Mountain, and then decide how you feel about gays. I believe the Founding Fathers said something about equal rights for all. That’s such an honorable goal. I wouldn’t want to live in a state that judges people so much. Our open mindedness and environmental laws are pluses to me, and that’s another reason I would pay more to live here.
I hope we can put an end to further prejudices on this forum, because it doesn’t educate, and it can alienate others who want to come here to learn.
powayseller
You are right.
powayseller
You are right. Sorry about the rant.
I believe a sense of
I believe a sense of community does influence one’s decision to stay. Family, friends, history, shared goals, etc. make it harder to leave a home when things get difficult (like buying a home). With a lack of community or the opportunity to build one due to gates, isolation, fear, etc. it is much easier for those persons who moved to SD for the famed So Cal lifestyle to cash out if they own, or give up if they don’t.
There are a few communities that have generational ties and a shared sense of community and interestingly, these are among the most expensive i.e. La Jolla, Pt. Loma, Old Del Mar, even Poway has a long history of community.
During my 38 years in San Diego, I must have heard the “everybody wants to live here” mantra thousands of times. I think its more like “everybody wants to live here. . .for awhile” and then build a life somewhere else. The 3 years of decline in net migration Rich points out, I believe, is due to less people coming for their few years in the sun.
For example, I know several ivy league MBA’s and Lawyers who could live anywhere they wanted. So they came to SD for 3 or 4 years and then bought a large house in another state to have a family where there lifestyle is more in-line with why they studied so hard in school.
I think this post has gotten
I think this post has gotten enough attention. Would like to add a few more thoughts:
1. I think most of us, myself included, would choose to live in San Diego County if housing prices were the same throughout the U.S.
2. The issue is how much more each of us is willing to pay to live in SD County relative to other places
3. Everyone has a breaking point where the differential would drive them to move
4. Housing is around 2 to 2-1/2 times more expensive in San Diego County as it is here along the Front Range
5. I am willing to pay around 1-1/2 times as much because I think it is worth it, but not the current rate
6. With all the changes happening there, we may see a pullback that brings prices closer
Can we all agree on items 1, 2, 3 and 6?
Quite true. I know “scads”
Quite true. I know “scads” of people that lived here for a “while” but left and are still leaving as kind of like a life experience of sorts.
Seems everywhere I go, somebody asks me where Iam from and I say SoCal, and they usually always say “Hey I used to live there too but we moved to _______city because its so much friendlier, cleaner, less congestive…etc. But I sure loved it when I was there” I ask, would you ever go back? and the answer is usuallly a resounding “NO WAY”
I migrated down from LA to escape the congestion and traffic, but I would have to learn a new language to locate further south and that would defeat my purpose of living in a nice location. Nothing against the mexicans at all here, but If I wanted to live with them everywhere I could have saved myself a ton of money by moving to Mexico City !
Reconquesta California’s ? They can have it back anytime they want it,seems they got it back mostly now anyway, you can drive from the border all the way up past Chula Vista and never tell the difference that Iam not still in Mexico till around the Airport on 5 north.
About those gates….Most
About those gates….Most gated communities, especially the REALLY high end ones (Fairbanks Ranch, Rancho Santa Fe..etc), remind me of people “Hiding out” from someone or something, Those huge gates and armed guards are not there for privacy…… most of those residents probably are in my mind, hiding from somebody. Especially the stock market “experts” there who swindled most of their fortunes from shady 401K deals on hard working, unsuspecting people…As the Chinese proverb goes…”Behind every great fortune is a great crime”
If your living your life right, you dont need 10 gazzillion dollars.
Sorry for the “detour” but I thought it appropriate.
I know plenty of rich folks
I know plenty of rich folks in Fairbanks Ranch and Rancho Santa Fe, and shockingly none of them committed crimes to accumulate their fortunes. My proverb goes, “Behind most great fortunes is a great mind… in addition to hard work and a little luck.” And, yes, occasionally there’s also a great “crime” involved (if that’s what you want to call it), but it’s the exception to the rule.
You sound bitter. But that’s not a crime.
Not bitter at all, I hope it
Not bitter at all, I hope it didnt come off that way. To each his own I say and agree with. I do know PLENTY of people up in that neck of the woods also…and some of them are…lets say their business is “A bit shady” to say the least, Iam talking “white collar” here, not drug dealing or anything like that. The SEC doesnt investigate people because they dont have anything else to do that day. Plenty of San Diego investment firms are under serious investigations currently, some are not even aware of it …yet.
Remember our fearless leaders Duke Cuningham and his cohorts all seemed to coincidentally live there too, Anyway, enough of this talk, the real estate prices up there seem to be holding their own.
Lots of empty lots at Santa Luz though…..some really prime ones on the course too.
As a Durango CO resident
As a Durango CO resident with a second home in PB, I think that I’m qualified to make a couple of observations. First off, my CO income tax is less than 5% on my AGI. Property tax on over two million dollars of assesed value is about $4200. Living in CO is definately cheaper than SD. One of the reasons it’s cheaper is that one doesn’t have to lease the latest M-B or Lexus to impress the neigbors. One doesn’t wash or detail a car/truck between November and May. RE agents use crew cab pickups to show property. We know how to put our SUV’s into four wheel drive.
On a serious note, CO is not for everyone. I know a number of first class doctors who were into hiking, mountain biking, flyfishing, etc. who have moved on because their wives were unhappy. No shopping or Jr. League.
Outside of Denver, the Springs or the People’s Republic of Boulder, unless you telecommute, rural CO has no real good paying jobs.
“One of the reasons it’s
“One of the reasons it’s cheaper is that one doesn’t have to lease the latest M-B or Lexus to impress the neigbors.
There’s a simple solution to this that works everywhere…
Don’t try to impress the neighbors.
I know a number of first class doctors who were into hiking, mountain biking, flyfishing, etc. who have moved on because their wives were unhappy. No shopping or Jr. League.
Hmmm. Sounds like your local “Doc Hollidays” married the wrong kind of people.
There’s a simple solution to this that works everywhere…
Don’t try to impress the neighbors.
Hey, my brother-in-law was
Hey, my brother-in-law was an orthopedic surgeon in Durango, and my sister is a surgeon, and they moved a few years ago. He’s the outdoorsy type you describe, so perhaps you knew him. They left for personal reasons, because of his career change, not because she was unhappy there. They ended up someplace really dismal. Let’s just say it’s more barren than Nebraska.
Hey, my brother-in-law was
Hey, my brother-in-law was an orthopedic surgeon in Durango, and my sister is a surgeon, and they moved a few years ago. He’s the outdoorsy type you describe, so perhaps you knew him. They left for personal reasons, because of his career change, not because she was unhappy there. They ended up someplace really dismal. Let’s just say it’s more barren than Nebraska.