Ted’s logic, examples, and analogies make great sense to me.

I own guns, but even I think Ted is absurd. Honestly, now, does anyone really believe they’re more safe, free and protected by having high-school students and college students all armed? Nonsense.

The only way to solve this debate is a scientific study in this country because other countries have different cultures. It will sound crazy but we will find the answer. Pick an insignificant state in the U.S. something in the South or with an average tooth count of less than 12 (just being honest, Alabamba is a good pick but that’s negotiable). Divide the state in half, and set up secure borders for five years, nobody moves in or out because that will skew the results. Both sides need to be economicaly and racialy similar. Allow everyone on one side to have as many guns as they want and to carry them anywhere they want. Sell them at 7-11, no paperwork, no I.D., crazy people, felons, let kids have them in high school, football players during games, no rules about guns, have at it.

Then completely outlaw them on the other side, punishable by death to possess them for anyone other than cops, ammo too. No appeals for possession cases, carry out death sentences within 72 hours in public places.

Rest of the country stays with what we have, using popular vote and elected officials to decide the norm.

After five years show me the data, compare it to the rest of the country and the debate ends. We go with the best of the three: everyone, nobody or the way it is. The caveat is that wackos on both sides will be forbidden forever from arguing their point because the argument will have been settled.

Regardless, we on this site will discuss how the data will affect the real estate prices and how to get a foreclosure for nothing in one of the experiment zones.

Something similar to this idea has been done. Here’s an article of the result. It’s surprising to say the least.
Article

When some kind of idiot who goes on a rampage like the clown in VT did last week, he would NOT do what he did if he knew that possibly anyone in his group of victims was armed and had minimal training…These twisted, sick minded people are cowards first and foremost, never forget that.

I myself and or any of my children would not have been one of the ones shot in the ass or the back as they all tried impossibly to escape out of a small open window….Where are the "men" of today's society ?

These "survivors" will find out there are worse fates than death.

Please, there were at least 50 people in that room before he started his shooting with only one 9mm pistol and 2 magazines ….and a .22 target pistol he didnt even use, why wasnt he bumrushed and a chair broken over his scrawny little head ? I dont care how fast on the trigger you think you are, if 10 guy's rush you, they will get you, you might get 2 of them….just maybe, being charged by 10 men from 15 feet away, he would mentally change from "hunter" to the "hunted" …Our rich Uncle Sam taught me this in the beloved Corps. Its no secret ? Its instinctual survival.

32 people dead ?… I cant believe that happened, am I to believe there were not 10 people out of the first 50 that didnt see this as the only alternative to being killed ?

Didnt anyone want to live and take this asshole down ? Once you figure out you cant get out because of locked doors, then your whole value system and priorities should change, you are in for the "fight" now…nothing is more dangerous than a wounded, or caged animal. Its a primal instinct called survival.

Its not a matter of heroics, its a matter of survival. Has responsible, positive action been bred out of the kids today ?

Now I fully expect all of the "Ivory Tower pansy's" out there will attack me and call me a "John Wayne" fighting dude,… you couldnt be further from the truth, I would hate to be thrust into a situation like that last week,  but I'll be damned if I would let some little punk kill me or others like scared rabbits.

I am not an advocate for banning guns, but I do believe that they should all be licensed and anyone who buys should be subject to a real background check. It won’t keep all the guns away from the crooks because a lot of them steal their guns or get their girlfriends to buy them, but having those programs is better than nothing.

The VT shooter never planned to survive his assault and neither did the Columbine kids. I highly doubt Cho’s understanding that his victims could include armed resistance would have stopped him. He just would have bought a vest and upped his arsenal.

I don’t disagree that an armed populace might slow down certain crooks, but that won’t deter an irrational madman. Especially not one who spends a lot of time in planning.

A good percentage of police officers who die by gunfire get killed with their own guns. And they have access to holsters with retention features as well as substantial training in gun retention habits.

With handguns, gunfights that take place at distances greater than 3 feet generally have very low rates of effective hits. The average citizen with a handgun is probably more of a threat to themself and their loved ones than they are to a determined crook.

I like guns, I like shooting, and I’ve owned guns for use in my past occupations (military and police officer) and for the heck of it. I decided to divest my household of guns for safety reasons when I had little kids. I am of the opinion that unless the gun-owner is practicing at a combat range at least a couple times a year the only thing having it in their hands will do is intimidate a coward. They’re kidding themselves if they think any different. They’re better off with a folding knife.

The average 16-year old gangsta doesn’t have enough brains to be that coward, and neither does the madman. As for the libertarian types who want guns to defend themselves from their government, they’re welcome to have at it as far as I’m concerned.

Hear, hear bugs – I couldn’t agree with you more. Good to hear someone with real experience of them being rational and reasonable.

I grew up in the UK, where deaths by handguns still make front-page news. Yes, there’s more illlgal handguns on the city streets than there were, but we can still count gun-related homicides in the hundreds, not the thousands.

If people really want guns, then set up Federal regulations – so that when you buy a gun, you have to register it – and attend a course where you not only learn to shoot it competently, but also have to learn about correct storage, cleaning and maintenance. Which gets reviewed every few years – you don’t allow an 80-yr old blind person to drive a car, so why should you allow them a handgun? Licence guns to responsible, capable adults – we have to do it for cars, so why not guns?

A small, but horrifying, minority of deaths occur each year when kids find mommie’s gun under the bed and go play cowboys and indians. ..Or when someone tries to use their gun in a home invasion and instead has the table turned on them – they rely on firepower rather than their wits to get themselves out of a bad situation.
Or, as you pointed out, a police officer (who supposedly has rigorous training in handgun use) gets shot with their own weapon. These kinds of tragic accidents could be reduced, if only there were stricter controls.

NOTE – I’m not saying that handguns should be banned – I’ve lived over here long enough to realise that Hell Will Freeze Over before Americans give up their guns. As distasteful as I find them, you can’t mess with people’s 2nd amendment rights without serious repercussions. But there has to be a compromise, however minimal.

On the Virginia Tech massacre – personally I think that, even of there was a total ban on guns, Cho would have found another way to take down as many as he could….I don’t think the fact that he was heavily armed would have made a difference – he was determined to kill, and if not with guns, then he would have chosen another way. Maybe there would have been fewer deaths, but you can’t predict insanity.

Maybe the discussion should be about mental health, and the lack of provision here in the US to care for seriously ill people like him – rather than his method of killing.

I really don’t understand why – especially with organisations like the NRA – it all has to be black/white. Surely – to paraphrase Peter Parker “with great power comes great responsibilty”….yeah, have guns, but make sure that someone knows you do, that you know how to use them, store them and clean them, properly, and make sure that crazies/incompenents have Buckley’s chance of getting them. It may not stop future Chos – but it might help to stop some of the tragic – and totally preventable – accidents.