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anxvariety.
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February 16, 2007 at 12:41 PM #8415February 16, 2007 at 1:24 PM #45620
Doofrat
ParticipantAfter college I switched to a career in IT instead of what my degree was in.
The career has been very good to me for the last decade, but I see it maturing now in both good and bad ways.
The advantages of a career in IT are that you can work just about anywhere there are businesses, there is a wide range of specialities in IT and there is the possibility of changing to a different specialty if you get bored. The pay can be really good, and you get alot of industry standard training paid for by employers that is applicable no matter where you go.
You can always make yourself more valuable by getting into the more difficult fields in IT.
There are definitely disadvantages to IT.
In most organizations, IT is not their core business, therefore your job is an expense to the business, so you have to keep a perspective of where you fit into the organization. Alot of the infrastructure has already been built and so there is not alot of the “hey look, if we implement this neat system, it’ll make this dept. more efficient”, now it’s more like “we’re spending how much for this, how can we cut costs there”
IT is a 24/7 job. Depending on what you do, you can and will get called after hours and on the weekends. Very few IT people work 9-5. On the other hand, alot of things can be handled remotely. (oh, and my own saying is “If it can be done remotely, it can be done from India”)
Management. I know management is bad in alot of places (otherwise Dilbert wouldn’t be funny), but IT seems to attract alot of bad management at the top levels. Many of the top managers don’t have IT experience at the lower levels, so they are easily swayed by flashy sales brochures and demonstrations without realizing that there is a large gap between what the sales guy says and what the product actually does.
Entry into the field can be difficult. Unless you’re lucky, or in management (I’m bitter, I admit it), it can take years to get the knowledge base and experience to make a decent salary.
My take on your concerns about the safety of IT during a recession is that it is a valid concern. Right now things are pretty good, but if you look back at my first paragraph about the disadvantages of IT, you can see that IT is a big budget expense, so guess where they’ll cut when things are bad.
February 16, 2007 at 1:39 PM #45623FormerOwner
ParticipantThings got really bad in IT in 2001. The low interest rate/high liquidity monetary environment and the real estate boom are the only things prevented a meltdown in the number of IT jobs available. Oh, and the boom in military IT jobs has benifited a lot of folks too.
Overall, the IT field actually STILL hasn’t recovered to where it was in 2000. A lot of people left the field and that helped reduce competition for jobs but the streets are definitely not paved in gold and the risks are high. Entry level jobs are also hard to come by. Most jobs require experience and experience in the specific technologies that that company is using.
If you pick a technology that’s in demand (.NET, J2EE, for example) and you’re really good at it, you can make some good money but you always have to save some of it for when the next downturn comes and you get a pink slip.
So, it’s still a good field but not what it was in the late 90’s through 2000 and the risks are high.
February 16, 2007 at 2:21 PM #45628The-Shoveler
ParticipantNor_LA-Temcu-SD-Guy
About 50% of the people laid off in my Company (Telecom/Data com) became realestate agents, so depending on your specialty it can be tough to find a job.
Go to fry’s and ask how many of the guy’s working in the computer area have CCNA/CCNP’s and MSCE’s .
Can be tough getting a break (field is definitely crowded).
February 16, 2007 at 2:29 PM #45631CAwireman
ParticipantMatt,
Some good thoughts posted already. A few more:
1) Companies will always need technical support. Generally two areas: Developers and infrastructure technologists.
2) Developers ordinarily work very long hours especially immediately before and immediately following a major- revision software update.
3) Infrastructure support workers also spend lots of time upgrading and replacing production systems during off and weekend hours. Also, there are PC/Software installation positions that may more ordinarily work 8 – 5 shifts, but they may pay much less than the developer and infrastructure superstars.
4) If you can find stable, fair companies (like I have for the last 10 years) its a good way to go if you are good at it.
5) You can be outsourced quite quickly however. And, layoffs and reorgs affecting IT take place once or twice a year at many/most medium to large companies.
6) IT glut – there are so many people taking IT training courses that new IT workers are hard pressed to get their first job. But, with some experience it becomes much easier. There are some cities, like Washington/DC area where IT jobs are plentiful. In SD, its hit or miss. Younger folks will take any salary to get a chance to live in Socal, at least for a while. So, competition (especially in the smaller SD area in comparison to LA) is tougher. A new IT professional may have a challenge breaking into the business.
7) Many IT professionals who surfed through the dot com era run up in salaries but who weren’t downsized/laid off, have impressive salaries. Also, sought after skills draw Salaries from $50K (widely available) to $100K plus (less so, but definitely out there.
8) I read somewhere that ranks of IT staff haven’t necessarily grown tremendously in recent years, but that the ranks of IT Managers have. (Maybe that accounts for what the other poster mentioned in terms of bad IT mangers)IT Managers earn towards the top of the scale. Downside for a newcomer, you can’t get an IT Manger’s position without some significant proven experience. But, if you do, and you are a decent manager, I can tell you that it can be a rewarding vocation.
9) Would I recommend an IT postion for you? If you have nothing better to pursue, why not. The skills you learn in IT have a decent transfer rate to other discliplines. So, if it doesnt’ suit your fancy, you come away with some collateral skills useful in other areas. Overall, there’s a strong demand for sought after skills (experienced programmers, administrators, network engineers, security specialists, DBA’s) but one must pay one’s dues before getting into those roles.
Good luck Matt!
February 16, 2007 at 2:29 PM #45630kev374
ParticipantIT functions are increasingly being moved offshore, particularly to India, and this is not a good field to get into right now. Even network ops and sysadmins are now being offshored since remote monitoring software has improved tremendously and servers don’t need as much maintainence as they used to. In the next 5-7 yrs most IT jobs will be overseas except very few client facing roles and network techs that need to work onsite.
Tom Friedman did a piece recently on this. You can click on the link below to view it. It’s an interesting watch:
February 16, 2007 at 3:13 PM #45638kewp
ParticipantAh, a subject I can comment on from actual experience!
First of all, everyone in IT’s perception is colored by their environment. I’m sure there are plenty of bitter ex dot-bombers waiting tables in SD, but a bay area googler probably has a diff. perspective.
My personal take is there will *always* be a demand for IT folks that either have a solid formal education or a proven track record, combined with a passion for high technology. A combination of both is golden. This all takes alot of work, however.
The folks that are hurting are the ones that went to some degree mill, got some certs and then wonder why they are first to get let go when there is downturn. The answer is that they are the most expendable, as well as the easiest to replace. I’ve also seen people with good educations that over-specialized get hit. Lotta java programmers for example.
Regarding outsourcing, yeah its an issue, but lots of stuff is going to have to stay domestic. IT Security, for example. You really think companies are going to send that overseas? For many government and related institutions, its not even an option. This is my current gig and I love it, fun, challenging, I can telecommute, choose my own hours and dress like a rockstar. I’m planning on sitting out the downturn under university employ, as its fairly recession proof.
So, in a nutshell, my advice is that if you have a passion for it and/or are planning to get the relevant education, go for it. If you think you can go to Coleman college for 9 months, get a cirt and make six figures, you are going to probably be disappointed.
February 16, 2007 at 4:32 PM #45650ParticipantRegarding outsourcing, yeah its an issue, but lots of stuff is going to have to stay domestic. IT Security, for example. You really think companies are going to send that overseas?
umm…yes. I work in IT for a Fortune 200. Our entire security framework was developed in India. We layed off a bunch of US developers last year and hiring more in India.
Cisco has a HUGE movement of critical roles including management functions to Bangalore, India. Initially Cisco will move American management personnel to live in Bangalore but ultimately these will be phased out as local management is seasoned enough to take control:
There are other mission critical projects that have been developed in India such as the design of the wing for the new Airbus A380 which was done by Infosys in Bangalore.
Although a bit dated but still a good relevant read:
US Programmers – Endangered Species
Software development has become easier these days with the advent of automated tools. Yes, there will still be demand for the absolute cream of the crop, the ones that have unique problem solving talents and stand apart, but for most the future is not promising in this area.
February 16, 2007 at 4:36 PM #45651mixxalot
ParticipantI agree about the whole dilemma about IT work. As an out of work DBA with 10 years experience and a degree from a top school, I am looking into law school and an MBA program to get out of the tech field. I dont see lawyers sent to India and China. I may have to move to another state to find work.
February 16, 2007 at 5:52 PM #45657hipmatt
ParticipantWow, thanks for all the info, some really good posts here, and I appreciate it. I guess the question I do have is about education, and what you feel is the best route? Is there a good school in socal that I can attend or a good online school? Why is the 9 moth cert program not going to work? Thanks again to all, Matt
February 16, 2007 at 6:34 PM #45661Participant“umm…yes. I work in IT for a Fortune 200. Our entire security framework was developed in India. We layed off a bunch of US developers last year and hiring more in India.”
Thanks for proving my point about perception! I’m in the public sector and out-sourcing is a non-issue. But who knows, maybe in the future american universities will just be lecture halls with screens showing canned content from cheap overseas faculty!
Yeah I don’t get paid as much, but the job security plus bennies is rapidly becoming priceless. If the economy tanks, only moreso.
Lots of high-paying IT security gigs require top secret clearance as well, which isn’t easily available to foreign nationals.
The trick is to either get in a position that *can’t* be outsourced, or get high enough up that you are managing the foreign talent. This is zero-sum game over the long term anyway, as more companies off-shore IT it will drive up the cost of foreign labor.
February 16, 2007 at 7:17 PM #45663AK
ParticipantComing into this discussion a bit late …
The mortgage industry employs quite a few database administrators, network admins, application developers, etc. Many of them will be hitting the market soon … As with anything else, increasing inventory means longer time on market and lower prices.
Some IT professionals are doing very well right now as there is an acute shortage in some specialties. I say “acute” in the medical sense of “severe but brief.” My former employer spent beaucoup bucks on $150/hr consultants … they dressed nicely, talked a great line of bull, but didn’t accomplish much. (One day I actually caught one of them reading a “PHP for Dummies” type book.) I’m guessing your McMansion acquaintances have some sweet consulting gig like that … where the important skill is self-promotion, not technical expertise.
I’d say that mid-career professionals are in the best position. They have the experience to be productive, and the stuff they learned in school is still fresh and relevant. Me importantly, management thinks they’ll settle for a modest salary, and they pose less of a threat to the people making the hiring decisions.
But as others have mentioned, entry-level work isn’t easy to come by. Most employers would rather wait months or years to find the perfect candidate rather than take a chance on some kid fresh out of school. Skills are hard to assess from an interview, and a large percentage of resumes are padded or fraudulent, so many jobs are filled through the buddy system.
If you really want to go into IT, consider government work. You’ll have some job security, a long-term career path, and a secure pension plan, even if the pay is low. That’s what I did … I even passed up a counteroffer from my old employer and a standing offer at a big defense contractor.
For education … depends on what you want to do, but I’d consider an accredited four-year college or a good community college myself. Last I heard Palomar had an excellent program. As does Saddleback College in Mission Viejo.
Some of the vocational schools are good, but some are wretched … and they’re all expensive. And the crash programs have a reputation for “teaching the test” … just enough information to pass the certification exams, with no real hands-on experience.
And don’t go into IT if you’re sensitive or thin-skinned. People in other departments will treat you like ****, send you profane e-mail, steal your parking spaces, etc. and your managers will expect you to put up with it for political reasons. Think of yourself as the office janitor with more pay. Speaking of which, you’re likely to make good friends with the janitorial crew as you’ll be working during the same hours.
Are there rewards? Certainly. There’s the satisfaction of a job well done. There’s the chance to work around people with sharp analytical minds. And there’s the camaraderie … no one in my department ever stabbed me in the back for a promotion or a raise. (Probably because there were no promotions or raises to be had.) Just don’t go into this for the money.
February 16, 2007 at 7:53 PM #45667North County Native
ParticipantMy husband has an IT job with a local university and it doesn’t pay the best but it is a lot more secure. He can also go back and pursue higher degrees with his tuition waived. To us that is a great thing. The benefits he recieves are also excellent. He walks to work too, so I’m happy that he doesn’t have to drive 3 hours a day!
He also didn’t do one of those 9 month type of programs. He got his B.S. in Computer Science. They have some very tough classes. It is not an easy program and being a business major probably would’ve been a lot easier (Can I say that, being the proud wife?). He made the right choice for him and he loves that he gets to solve problems all day. He also doesn’t ever have to work late either. Its working well for us and we hope that it continues to in the future.
I don’t like taking higher level math and physics courses so a C.S. major was definetely not in the cards for me! Good luck in your decision!February 16, 2007 at 10:13 PM #45675ParticipantA good way to get into IT now is to learn a skill that is difficult. Don’t even think you can get an MCSE and just walk into a six figure job. That only happens in microskills commercials.
One of the biggest problems for new people is getting that first job. In the late 90s and early 00’s, anybody could get a job. Now employers expect you to walk in and start producing. They want to see experience. One way around this is again to learn something that’s difficult that not everybody is willing to learn, and then putting in your time in the trenches.
I would put more into getting a certification and experience rather than getting a Computer Science degree. Whenever we interview for positions, the degree doesn’t matter much. What we look for is: Are they qualified, can they do the job, will they work well with us and with others.
Look in the classified ads this sunday and look at dice.com and see what people are looking for.
February 16, 2007 at 10:28 PM #45676sdgal
ParticipantRegarding comments about outsourcing, below is a funny (but too real) related email a friend sent me:
Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA ) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG ). He put on a dress shirt ( MADE IN SRI LANKA ), designer jeans ( MADE IN! SINGAPORE ) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA ). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA, he sat down with his calculator ( MADE IN MEXICO ) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN ) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA ) he got in his car ( MADE IN GERMANY ) filled it with GAS from Saudi Arabia and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB . At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (Made In Malaysia ), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL ) pou red himself a glass of wine ( MADE IN FRANCE.! France!! ) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA ), and then wondered why he can’t find a good paying job in AMERICA.
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