because they appear even more dumb by doing nothing?

the better approach, as in most things in life, would be to not do anything.

[quote=ocrenter]A lot of alcoholics must hit rock bottom before they finally wise up and seek the help they really need. [/quote]

A lot of them do, but most of them just die from liver failure.

But I admire your optimism.

[quote=zk]I’m genuinely stumped as to why republicans are voting for this, and I’m extremely curious about it, and I hope somebody out there can enlighten me.[/quote]

The Republicans have got themselves in a bind on this one. It was easy and convenient when they were not in power to bad mouth Obamacare. It was even easier to rally their supporters with talk about how Obamacare was a mess, how they would repeal it, etc.

But now the tables have turned and the Republicans are in power and they have a simple choice. 1) Repeal and/or replace Obamacare or 2) Look incompetent and stupid for railing against a bad policy, promising to change it but then not doing so.

Obviously option 2 is a bad choice. You never want to look incompetent and stupid when you are in power.

Which leaves us with option 1, repeal and/or replace Obamacare. If they simply repeal Obamacare that’s going to be unpopular because many who make up their base are actively enjoying the benefits of Obamacare and if you take that away, that will be unpopular.

If you want to replace Obamacare, then you probably want to try and fix the problems in it. And that’s where things get really problematic. There are two issues with that. First are the ideological issues. Some Republicans are angry that the govt is now giving payments to pay for poor people’s health care. Ending that doesn’t play well in the news.

The second problem is that Obamacare forces people to buy health care. Which wouldn’t be so bad except in case you hadn’t noticed, health care costs have been climbing worse than housing costs in 2004. (Maybe that’s not technically correct, but you get the idea)

So the Republicans need to figure out a way to limit the cost of health care. And that is a huge issue that there is no good answer to.

So here’s the deal: The Republicans promised everyone they would repeal Obamacare and replace it with a great program that everyone would love. They used this repeatedly during their campaigning. Now they are in power they need to deliver on this promise. But there is no good way to do this.

So why vote? Well, they sort of have to. It’s like the political world has double dared them. But note that they are all scrambling for cover as they prepare to vote. No one wants to own responsibility for whatever gets passed.

The bottom line is that the Republicans will probably be hurt by the vote, but they’ll be hurt even more if they don’t vote. It’s a choice of the lesser of two evils.

xbox’ analysis is very fair.

Republicans are more beholden to their ideologies than anything. I don’t believe the big donors care about health care so long as they get lower taxes.

Problem with health care is that the markets don’t work for a social need. The only answer is not single payer, but government run health care for the poorest to average American, with private insurance for the better off. People should be able to just show their social security card at a state clinic to get care. No need for insurance.

I personally have a lot of fun with my Republicans friends. When they bitch about something I use laissez faire profit motive reasoning to make my point. They are so beholden to ideology that they will shut up rather than contradict free market economics even on grounds of compassion or human rights. They will never admit that free markets don’t solve all problems, and are appropriate only in some circumstances.

I have most fun with Republicans who bitch about the cost of housing. If you can’t afford it, it means the free markets (as is they were a law of nature) decided you don’t deserve it.

I find it very ironical that the US has the most expensive health care that is revered all around the world and yet when I read peoples experiences on medicine.net or other health care sites, doctors are constantly misdiagnosing people. I think most of you out there know what I’m talking about. So wouldn’t it be better to build a better health care system that can get it right the first time and thus be more efficient. I think this approach really applies to everything out there and not just health care, car repair, cable companies, plumbers. 10 minutes with a patient just is not going to be enough time for a doctor to get it right most of the time, a more holistic approach would be better.

Nobody wants to fix health care because it will be bad politically. You need to address the cost side of the equation. If you do you instantly create a recession or possibly worse a depression. Health care represents about 20% of GDP right now. If you cut in half you probably put 2 to 3 million people out of a job in the short term. It would be good in the long run as those people would find other jobs that were more productive but it wouldn’t be good in the short term. The problem is you face reelection in the short term. The one hope you might have from somebody like Trump is maybe he doesn’t really care about reelection and might do something politically bad in the short term to fix the long term.

I agree with the perplexing nature of this health care bill. What I don’t understand is why they don’t have an Adaptive Management Plan? Have a roundtable of the brightest minds in the world from healthcare industry, social workers, doctors, etc. Bring in folks from all over the world that have government managed healthcare (Canada and Australia come to mind, I mean we speak the same language) Kaiser, blue-cross, United, whoever and review the existing bill highlight what works and put it in one pile then highlight what doesn’t and put it in another. Keep and expand upon what works and move forward tweak or delete what doesn’t and set up a committee of the best and brightest and at first they may meet daily, monthly, then quarterly, then annually. Continue to reform and adapt the plan to expand what works and delete or tweak what doesn’t. yes it will probably take decades, but it would be progress.

I know I am naïve, but I am really tired of the stupidity that is my government.