I “really like America.” Not I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 4, 2014 @
3:20 PM
flyer wrote:I “really like [quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us would really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
+1
The irony being that those that bitch the most fail to appreciate the hard-won freedoms that allow that very bitching.
paramount
July 4, 2014 @
6:05 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The irony being that those that bitch the most fail to appreciate the hard-won freedoms that allow that very bitching.[/quote]
Absolutely…like this free speech zone for example:
Love and loyalty are Love and loyalty are distinct.
One can imagine a man who no longer loves his wife yet is unerringly faithful.
Or one who is passionately loving but cheats like a bastard.
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
6:45 PM
Is Love of country just based Is Love of country just based on the country being a good deal for you?
The stuff you have…The money and goods and energy?
This seems wrong yet it seems like what we have become.
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
6:51 PM
how does one show love of how does one show love of country excluding joining the military? doesn’t it seem liek the natural patriotic impuse is to war in this nation? what did young men do after 9/11…what was their impulse? to take up arms.
is there any other acceptable way to show love of country in this nation?
does that seem troubling somehow?
Allan from Fallbrook
July 4, 2014 @
7:05 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:how does [quote=scaredyclassic]how does one show love of country excluding joining the military? doesn’t it seem liek the natural patriotic impuse is to war in this nation? what did young men do after 9/11…what was their impulse? to take up arms.
is there any other acceptable way to show love of country in this nation?
does that seem troubling somehow?[/quote]
Scaredy: It is troubling, yes, but you’ve constructed a binary argument. Military service is only one way to serve one’s country, especially given the way this country’s government has twisted “patriotism” to its own ends.
FlyerInHi
July 4, 2014 @
7:33 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:Love and [quote=scaredyclassic]Love and loyalty are distinct.
One can imagine a man who no longer loves his wife yet is unerringly faithful.
Or one who is passionately loving but cheats like a bastard.[/quote]
This is very interesting. Some would call that unerring faithfulness love.
But I think there has to be passion or tenderness for there to be love.
There’s also adoration, devotion, or affection.
I wonder if you can love an object or a country? I wonder.
paramount
July 4, 2014 @
6:03 PM
flyer wrote:I “really like [quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
I figured it wouldn’t be long until someone pulled the love it or leave it card.
That expression was a personal favorite of Joseph McCarthy.
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
7:03 PM
paramount wrote:flyer wrote:I [quote=paramount][quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
I figured it wouldn’t be long until someone pulled the love it or leave it card.
That expression was a personal favorite of Joseph McCarthy.[/quote]
it does seem like an odd thing to say; as if the only people who may remain are those who love their country. if you are disgusted with your country, you must leave.
would one say to a man who is fighting with his wife, who is not feeling any love for her, that he absolutely must leave her?
in reality, wherever people are in the world, in noncrisis situations, over a lifteime they build up tremdnous social capital in their place. to say they are free to leave at any time because theya re disappointed in the country is, well, wrongheaded. we are not free to leave. we are wedded to our land, to our palce, to our relatives.
this is our country, but it sin’t what we really mean when we talk of love of country. that is love of our life, …the country goes way beyond that, lives on way beyond that.
we may feel intense disgust with our nation and not want to leave because we love our lives in that place….or simply because the reality of the situation is that things will be worse if we go…
not really sure what itmeans to love one’s country.
we are all probably talking about very different things when we talk of “country”.
for instance, flyer above immediately rushes to the country’s defense because it’s been good to him…he’s got a great deal..essentially, his lvoe has been bought , or at elast bolstered, by the tremendous financial opportunities. i suppose there’s nothing really wrong with that. perhaps a nation is nothing more than a good or bad financial deal for its people. if it’s bad for you, you don’t lvoe it …if it’s good for enough people, it will byuild a critical mass of love, and it will prosper.
still, it seems an unsatsifying type of love. itseems, as in a marriage, that a love based on how things are going is not”real”…that it should be based on deeper, higher principles, on admitration for fundamental qualities that exist regardless of current material codnitions.
and to say, hey, if you are not feeling it, get the hell out…well…I don’t know…it just sounds wrong…
if I were ina theoretical crappy country,a nd i was doing great, I wouldn’t necessarily love the country. and if I were ina country I truly admired, and I was struggling, I would still love the country.
how things turned out might be relevant, but only a bit.
FlyerInHi
July 4, 2014 @
7:10 PM
scaredyclassic. I like how scaredyclassic. I like how you put it. Love is not that simple.
In the same vain as Flyer, I love America because everything is cheap here. I’m in Vegas and today, I went shopping at H&M at townsquare (upscale outdoor mall) Bought a winter jacket for $7.50 and a jacket hoodie for $2.00 (original for both items around $130).
I don’t think there is anywhere in the world (even in the third world) where I could buy the same quality in an upscale shopping center. Viva America, the land of the mcmansion and the stuffed walk-in closet.
flyer
July 4, 2014 @
7:29 PM
My comments were not meant to My comments were not meant to be just about acquiring “stuff,” or how cheap things are. For us, it’s also the quality of life we find to be better than any other place we could choose to be in the world, and we very much appreciate that and those who afforded us that opportunity.
I know these points could be argued indefinitely–and everyone has a different opinion–so, as far as my opinion goes–I’ll leave it at that.
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
7:38 PM
flyer wrote:My comments were [quote=flyer]My comments were not meant to be just about acquiring “stuff,” or how cheap things are. For us, it’s also the quality of life we find to be better than any other place we could choose to be in the world, and we very much appreciate that and those who afforded us that opportunity.
I know these points could be argued indefinitely–and everyone has a different opinion–so, as far as my opinion goes–I’ll leave it at that.[/quote]
other than the stuff, what do you like?
what are you proud of?
Allan from Fallbrook
July 4, 2014 @
7:43 PM
FlyerInHi [quote=FlyerInHi]scaredyclassic. I like how you put it. Love is not that simple.
In the same vain as Flyer, I love America because everything is cheap here. I’m in Vegas and today, I went shopping at H&M at townsquare (upscale outdoor mall) Bought a winter jacket for $7.50 and a jacket hoodie for $2.00 (original for both items around $130).
I don’t think there is anywhere in the world (even in the third world) where I could buy the same quality in an upscale shopping center. Viva America, the land of the mcmansion and the stuffed walk-in closet.[/quote]
So, you argue against rampant mercantilism by engaging in it?
And what does that have to with love of one’s country? Do you feel you have an obligation to make the country better as a citizen through the social compact? Or, is it easier to sneeringly dismiss what’s around you while simultaneously accepting no responsibility to make it better?
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
8:07 PM
Weren’t we told to get to a Weren’t we told to get to a mall and keep shopping after 9/11?
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
8:10 PM
I guess war and shopping are I guess war and shopping are how we express our affection for and cobfidence in america.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 4, 2014 @
9:21 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:Weren’t [quote=scaredyclassic]Weren’t we told to get to a mall and keep shopping after 9/11?[/quote]
Yeah, you probably shouldn’t confuse your country with your government.
“Love your country. Fear your government”.
spdrun
July 4, 2014 @
9:39 PM
But it’s the government’s But it’s the government’s birthday. We could have loved the land and people even if it stayed a British (or Mexican) dominion for much longer, no? Aussies, Kiwis, and Canadians are proud of their countries as well.
SD Realtor
July 4, 2014 @
10:16 PM
Yes I love America. Even with Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse. I do alot more travelling now then I ever have and spend alot of time in the heartland and midwest. I have seen and spent substantial amounts of time in parts of the county I never thought I would see. It really is a fantastic country.
bearishgurl
July 5, 2014 @
8:56 AM
SD Realtor wrote:Yes I love [quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse. I do alot more travelling now then I ever have and spend alot of time in the heartland and midwest. I have seen and spent substantial amounts of time in parts of the county I never thought I would see. It really is a fantastic country.[/quote]
Ditto. I’m the “queen of road trips” and the USA is very beautiful. ALL OF IT has something to offer. Yes, even the Mojave and the AZ desert. My favorite places are in the Rocky Mtns of Colorado. Lake Tahoe runs a close second. NorCal rugged coast is third. And the list goes on . . .
Folks, you can’t see any of this from an airport terminal. I’m sure I’ll get to see more of it before I die.
God bless America!
spdrun
July 5, 2014 @
9:02 AM
True. Although travel by True. Although travel by plane is useful if you can get a relatively cheap car rental (I’ve often paid $100-150/wk) at the other end with unlimited miles. Driving cross-country, there’s only so much of Kansas that you really want to see 🙂
NotCranky
July 5, 2014 @
9:28 AM
The planet is a beautiful The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?
spdrun
July 5, 2014 @
9:43 AM
I love the tribe of New I love the tribe of New Yorkers because it’s multiple tribes living together in relatively functional co-existence…
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
10:28 AM
Blogstar wrote:The planet is [quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.
This is a book I loved entirely examining what loyalty is.
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
11:20 AM
Lawyers should be loyal to Lawyers should be loyal to clients but usually don’t love them.
I can do many beautiful pullups.
I love jazz and I think only America could have produced it.
paramount
July 5, 2014 @
11:34 AM
When will America be free When will America be free again?
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
11:44 AM
paramount wrote:When will [quote=paramount]When will America be free again?[/quote]
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose…
We have too much to lose to be free
spdrun
July 5, 2014 @
12:08 PM
Lawyers should be loyal to
Lawyers should be loyal to clients but usually don’t love them.
Then they’re loyal to the profession and its rules because they love it. Or at least fear disbarment.
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
12:11 PM
spdrun wrote:
Lawyers should [quote=spdrun]
Lawyers should be loyal to clients but usually don’t love them.
Then they’re loyal to the profession and its rules because they love it. Or at least fear disbarment.[/quote]
Loyal from duty and obligation … not love…
spdrun
July 5, 2014 @
12:13 PM
Loyal from duty and
Loyal from duty and obligation … not love…
Duty to clients. Love of the profession. Or at least you’ve claimed to love it, since you said you’d like to be a lawyer till your last breath in the past 🙂
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
12:51 PM
spdrun wrote:
Loyal from duty [quote=spdrun]
Loyal from duty and obligation … not love…
Duty to clients. Love of the profession. Or at least you’ve claimed to love it, since you said you’d like to be a lawyer till your last breath in the past :)[/quote]
Well…I suppose I love it. I more love the drama, the stakes, the respondibility, the pressures… I just like the whole scene…I like having a part to play. I like interacting with lots of people in stressful situations. It makes me feel alive. Important. Engages my brain.
But lawyers or lawyering in general…not really feeling the love…Some I can’t stand.
I mentioned here CA SR-128 to you before for a bike trip. Drive up to the Ukiah area where you can leave your car for a few days at one of several campgrounds and start out west from there. It’s spectacular, and, of course, you’ll be able to go where cars can’t go (I’ve only been thru there by car).
Though I’m nowhere near squatting 250 pounds, you’re still an inspiration to us all. How cool to be at your physical best when you’re ~50 years old!
scaredyclassic
July 6, 2014 @
7:31 AM
Thanks. The over all effect Thanks. The over all effect in clothing is still pretty small. I went from about 37.5 inches around the chest to 40ish. I’m still very slight.
NotCranky
July 5, 2014 @
3:21 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.[/quote]
Since we are talking about The nation state U.S.A the tribe is every institution and every single citizen taken collectively. That means rich and powerful ,the celebrities, the governments, the corporations and every flavor of hood rat and every thing that can possibly fall in between and what we all make of life together. Do you love that? No picking and choosing sub tribes we are talking USA AKA “America”. I think that is the question of the poll…but I could be wrong.
bearishgurl
July 5, 2014 @
4:03 PM
Blogstar wrote:Allan from [quote=Blogstar][quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.[/quote]
Since we are talking about The nation state U.S.A the tribe is every institution and every single citizen taken collectively. That means rich and powerful ,the celebrities, the governments, the corporations and every flavor of hood rat and every thing that can possibly fall in between and what we all make of life together. Do you love that? No picking and choosing sub tribes we are talking USA AKA “America”. I think that is the question of the poll…but I could be wrong.[/quote]
I’m not Allan but I’ll answer it, Russ.
The diversity (of geography, its people and their cultures) is what makes America great, in my mind. Where I have a problem is with a subset of Americans (of EVERY persuasion) who feel that all levels of government should support them financially for life.
I don’t blame these folks for applying for and taking advantage of benefits they seemingly “qualify for.” I blame all levels of government for not closing loopholes allowing applicants to qualify for aid or lifetime payments which, upon heavier scrutiny, they shouldn’t qualify for. Here are a few:
-SSD payments for life for millions who actually DO have the ability to work;
-SSD payments to millions of minors (collected by a parent) whose parents are claiming they are “mentally disabled;”
-Huge SS Survivor benefits paid to minors (collected by a parent or guardian) of decedents who deposited little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their lifetimes;
-Huge OASDI payments to age-eligible spouses or former spouses who themselves put little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their own lifetimes, while OASDI often pays a simultaneous benefit to the “sponsoring worker” (this is the most costly gubment benefit scam due to one worker easily having multiple spouses in a lifetime, IMO);
-Huge VA lifetime monthly disability benefits to millions of former servicemen and their families whose “service-connected disability” isn’t severe enough to keep them from working; and,
-SSI paid to elderly immigrants who immigrated to America when already past traditional working age and thus never paid anything into the OASDI pot (this essentially lets their “sponsors,” [who swore under oath they would support them for life as a condition of their immigrating to the US] off the hook).
There are a lot more but these are my pet peeves. The vast majority of individuals who are able to successfully take advantage of the above gubment programs lose all incentive to take care of themselves financially for the rest of their lives as soon as they qualify for the benefit and cash their first check, IMO. Essentially, they depend upon “America” for their own sustenance. Hence, the Federal deficit only grows larger every year (partly due to COLAs in all their “sustenance” programs).
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
4:46 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Blogstar [quote=bearishgurl][quote=Blogstar][quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.[/quote]
Since we are talking about The nation state U.S.A the tribe is every institution and every single citizen taken collectively. That means rich and powerful ,the celebrities, the governments, the corporations and every flavor of hood rat and every thing that can possibly fall in between and what we all make of life together. Do you love that? No picking and choosing sub tribes we are talking USA AKA “America”. I think that is the question of the poll…but I could be wrong.[/quote]
I’m not Allan but I’ll answer it, Russ.
The diversity (of geography, its people and their cultures) is what makes America great, in my mind. Where I have a problem is with a subset of Americans (of EVERY persuasion) who feel that all levels of government should support them financially for life.
I don’t blame these folks for applying for and taking advantage of benefits they seemingly “qualify for.” I blame all levels of government for not closing loopholes allowing applicants to qualify for aid or lifetime payments which, upon heavier scrutiny, they shouldn’t qualify for. Here are a few:
-SSD payments for life for millions who actually DO have the ability to work;
-SSD payments to millions of minors (collected by a parent) whose parents are claiming they are “mentally disabled;”
-Huge SS Survivor benefits paid to minors (collected by a parent or guardian) of decedents who deposited little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their lifetimes;
-Huge OASDI payments to age-eligible spouses or former spouses who themselves put little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their own lifetimes, while OASDI often pays a simultaneous benefit to the “sponsoring worker” (this is the most costly gubment benefit scam due to one worker easily having multiple spouses in a lifetime, IMO);
-Huge VA lifetime monthly disability benefits to millions of former servicemen and their families whose “service-connected disability” isn’t severe enough to keep them from working; and,
-SSI paid to elderly immigrants who immigrated to America when already past traditional working age and thus never paid anything into the OASDI pot (this essentially lets their “sponsors,” [who swore under oath they would support them for life as a condition of their immigrating to the US] off the hook).
There are a lot more but these are my pet peeves. The vast majority of individuals who are able to successfully take advantage of the above gubment programs lose all incentive to take care of themselves financially for the rest of their lives as soon as they qualify for the benefit and cash their first check, IMO. Essentially, they depend upon “America” for their own sustenance. Hence, the Federal deficit only grows larger every year (partly due to COLAs in all their “sustenance” programs).[/quote]
+1
moneymaker
July 5, 2014 @
7:43 PM
I totally agree with you I totally agree with you bearishgurl.
I have noticed over the last few years that Hollywood has been putting out a lot of movies that appeal to conspiracy theorists and schizo’s. Turns out they have just been mirroring the government’s paranoia. I wish my government wasn’t so paranoid of there own people, and by that I mean the hard working middle class that is just trying to make ends meet.
paramount
July 5, 2014 @
11:36 AM
Blogstar wrote:The planet is [quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing…
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Yes and as pointed out, if there was a space beauty contest Earth would be Ms Universe.
paramount
July 5, 2014 @
11:37 AM
Imagine if you will we Imagine if you will we stopped burning fossil fuels how much more beauty would be revealed? Cleaner air bluer skies.
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
11:50 AM
paramount wrote:Blogstar [quote=paramount][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing…
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Yes and as pointed out, if there was a space beauty contest Earth would be Ms Universe.[/quote]
Humanity sometimes seems like a cancer on the land. Perhaps saturn…
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
11:40 AM
SD Realtor wrote:Yes I love [quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse.
[/quote]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
11:43 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:SD Realtor [quote=FlyerInHi][quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse.
[/quote]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.[/quote]
I just asked my wife. She says she needs to know how much worse…
Please click on the thumbnail above to admire my back…
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
11:46 AM
scaredyclassic [quote=scaredyclassic][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse.
[/quote]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.[/quote]
I just asked my wife. She says she needs to know how much worse…
Please click on the thumbnail above to admire my back…[/quote]
I am 100 perc. Loyal.
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
7:56 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
I am [quote=scaredyclassic]
I am 100 perc. Loyal.[/quote]
That’s only possible if you love the person you’re loyal to, or if there is no one else that’s the object of your love and desires. Very well documented in novels.
In real life, Mark Sanford has given up the perfect family and possibly the Presidency of the USA for love.
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
8:03 PM
im just the loyal type. im just the loyal type.
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
8:14 PM
Since you’re the expert on Since you’re the expert on loyalty, I have a question.
What’s a loyal friend to do? Do you stand by your friend, even though that friend in at fault?
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
10:09 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Since you’re [quote=FlyerInHi]Since you’re the expert on loyalty, I have a question.
What’s a loyal friend to do? Do you stand by your friend, even though that friend in at fault?[/quote]
That’s what I thought. Loyalty demands it.
I have a little quandary. I’ll be loyal.
paramount
July 5, 2014 @
11:16 PM
Towards a Police State [img_assist|nid=18191|title=Towards a Police State|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=370|height=600]
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
7:51 PM
scaredyclassic
[quote=scaredyclassic]
[quote=FlyerInHi]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.[/quote]
I just asked my wife. She says she needs to know how much worse…
Please click on the thumbnail above to admire my back…[/quote]
I love your wife. She’s funny.
I’m sure she has no reason to complain. It gets better.
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
10:22 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=scaredyclassic]Weren’t we told to get to a mall and keep shopping after 9/11?[/quote]
Yeah, you probably shouldn’t confuse your country with your government.
“Love your country. Fear your government”.[/quote]
It’s the government that defines treason. And finds u guilty.
Maybe a country is nothing more than a defined border with power to get spoils for its people to divvy up. Our country may not be equal to our govt but there’s some relationship.
What is “the country”…
CA renter
July 4, 2014 @
10:45 PM
Love your posts, scaredy, as Love your posts, scaredy, as always. You’ve said it all.
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
11:31 PM
We seem to have lost the We seem to have lost the thread of the story of why we are great…
Certainly it’s not immigration, land of ipportunity, beacon of freedom.
Murrieta is ready to overturn busses with detainees.
Do we even really want freedom?
Stable markets, money… that’s what we want.
1st am. Poses no threat to the gov. If it did they’d probably find a way to shut you up fast.
scaredyclassic
July 4, 2014 @
11:32 PM
I prefer loyalty to love. I prefer loyalty to love.
spdrun
July 4, 2014 @
11:34 PM
I prefer loyalty to
I prefer loyalty to love.
Doesn’t loyalty imply love? Otherwise, it’s just fear.
CA renter
July 5, 2014 @
3:04 AM
spdrun wrote:
I prefer [quote=spdrun]
I prefer loyalty to love.
Doesn’t loyalty imply love? Otherwise, it’s just fear.[/quote]
Love, at least how most people define it, is fickle. Loyalty is not.
Love says more about the desirability of the person or thing being loved. Chances are, they will only be “loved” for as long as they are desirable in some way. Loyalty says more about the character of the lover; it shows an intrinsic sense of duty, obligation, and commitment.
If you could choose only one, would you rather have a spouse who “loves” you, but is disloyal; or would you rather have a spouse who doesn’t “love” you in the conventional way, but is very loyal? Think about the fact that marriage is the most important business partnership you will ever enter into, and that your spouse’s actions will greatly affect the well-being of you and your children for the rest of your lives. Love or loyalty?
1st am. Poses no threat to the gov. If it did they’d probably find a way to shut you up fast.[/quote]
See all the activity dedicated to shutting down the Occupy Wall Street movement, or the actions taken to stomp out “domestic terrorism,” for example.
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
6:26 AM
Love or even like is very Love or even like is very funny.
When we like something, we generally take offense to other people not liking it. We need confirmation we made a good choice.
Take shopping for example. If we go shopping with friends, we ask each other questions as to what we should buy… At the point we want the input. But once we buy something and wear it, we don’t want to hear it sucks.
Country or even family is not really a choice though. Kids born in terrible families still love them. Maybe we love because we’re expected to love.
spdrun
July 5, 2014 @
7:20 AM
Of course country is a Of course country is a choice. Put it this way: if there were to be a draft, I’d be somewhere in Central America right now.
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
11:48 AM
spdrun wrote: Put it this [quote=spdrun] Put it this way: if there were to be a draft, I’d be somewhere in Central America right now.[/quote]
I don’t think so.
You’d develop some kind of medication condition.
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
11:51 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:spdrun wrote: [quote=FlyerInHi][quote=spdrun] Put it this way: if there were to be a draft, I’d be somewhere in Central America right now.[/quote]
I don’t think so.
You’d develop some kind of medication condition.[/quote]
Conscientious objector?
Cut off some toes?
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
11:52 AM
As a country though it does As a country though it does feel like America is absolutely full of shit. Just a lying sack of phoney baloney.
paramount
July 5, 2014 @
12:03 PM
America: Savage, dumb, America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).
bearishgurl
July 5, 2014 @
1:56 PM
paramount wrote:America: [quote=paramount]America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).[/quote]Paramount, I travel all the way thru Utah at least twice per year (out of necessity) and will tell you that, although beautiful in parts, a non-resident (or even a non-resident of a particular area), practically speaking, really can’t get any kind of justice there. Many parts of Utah harken back to the wild west.
Just be thankful that you reside in CA where everything is spelled out for everyone (in triplicate … ad nauseaum, resident or not) and it doesn’t have “different rules” depending on who you are and where you reside.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
2:21 PM
bearishgurl wrote:paramount [quote=bearishgurl][quote=paramount]America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).[/quote]Paramount, I travel all the way thru Utah at least twice per year (out of necessity) and will tell you that, although beautiful in parts, a non-resident (or even a non-resident of a particular area), practically speaking, really can’t get any kind of justice there. Many parts of Utah harken back to the wild west.
Just be thankful that you reside in CA where everything is spelled out for everyone (in triplicate … ad nauseaum, resident or not) and it doesn’t have “different rules” depending on who you are and where you reside.[/quote]
BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules. While I may be a diehard conservative, I’ll profess to loving those socialist mofos over at the Labor Board, especially when it came to them helping me kick a former employer’s ass. It’s like that old joke about being a Republican and then you lose your job.
I think the point that Scaredy might be missing was that things in America were easier before the proliferation of all the various and sundry groups, each seeking a piece of the pie. Politicians need more and more money to get elected, which requires more and more promises, few of which can actually be met. Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.
bearishgurl
July 5, 2014 @
2:32 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules …
[snip]
… Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.[/quote]
CA residents complain a LOT (myself incl) about lack of gubment staffing at all levels (due to “state budget cuts”). HOWEVER, many jurisdictions in UT take “lack of staffing” to a whole new level and it has nothing to due with “lack of revenue.” It’s by design … and that’s the way the state’s “golden folk” who “make the rules” like it :=0
Traveler beware . . .
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
2:39 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Allan from [quote=bearishgurl][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules …
[snip]
… Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.[/quote]
CA residents complain a LOT (myself incl) about lack of gubment staffing at all levels (due to “state budget cuts”). HOWEVER, many jurisdictions in UT take “lack of staffing” to a whole new level and it has nothing to due with “lack of revenue.” It’s by design … and that’s the way the state’s “golden folk” who “make the rules” like it :=0
Traveler beware . . .[/quote]
BG: Yup, count me amongst the complainers. I’ll bang on and on about the need for smaller government, until I’m waiting at the DMV.
Americans are spoiled, by and large, and hypocrites of the first order, and I’m right in the mix. We’ve been promised a never-ending stream of benefits and services in what appears to be a low-cost scheme. The truth is, we want all of the goodies, but we don’t want to really talk about what things honestly cost, or what eventually happens when the bill comes due.
bearishgurl
July 5, 2014 @
2:58 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=bearishgurl][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules …
[snip]
… Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.[/quote]
CA residents complain a LOT (myself incl) about lack of gubment staffing at all levels (due to “state budget cuts”). HOWEVER, many jurisdictions in UT take “lack of staffing” to a whole new level and it has nothing to due with “lack of revenue.” It’s by design … and that’s the way the state’s “golden folk” who “make the rules” like it :=0
Traveler beware . . .[/quote]
BG: Yup, count me amongst the complainers. I’ll bang on and on about the need for smaller government, until I’m waiting at the DMV.
Americans are spoiled, by and large, and hypocrites of the first order, and I’m right in the mix. We’ve been promised a never-ending stream of benefits and services in what appears to be a low-cost scheme. The truth is, we want all of the goodies, but we don’t want to really talk about what things honestly cost, or what eventually happens when the bill comes due.[/quote]
If you want small government, move to rural UT. In many cases, there are only a handful of people “minding the store” (not all FT). The “store” could consist of a 200+ mile radius. When several of that “handful” are on vacation and then who is left calls in sick, there is no one. And that’s okay with the “golden folk.” If you need a UT lawyer (in order to avail yourself of the “different rules” afforded the locals), you’re going to have to pay him/her their full hourly fee to drive to that area to appear for you (assuming he/she can get a timely hearing with a judge or commissioner actually present and seated). The drive could easily be several hrs each way. If they can’t get a timely hearing for you, you’re SOL. And that time frame (for travelers) is exceedingly short.
The State of UT is FLUSH with revenue … absolutely FLUSH! But the bulk of it did NOT come from their own taxpayers. UT’s “Golden Folk” know exactly where their fair (but mostly desolate) state is located and they capitalize on it to the max.
And, no, I haven’t gotten busted there bringing in MJ from CO and don’t intend to. But as of this year, these busts are undoubtedly another one of UT’s most reliable “revenue sources.”
Let’s just leave it at that.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
3:05 PM
BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll confess something. I stand in slack-jawed awe at the Mormon Church and their ability to generate stunning amounts of money.
spdrun
July 5, 2014 @
3:12 PM
Yeah, but is a church Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper? At least the proposed State of Deseret never happened.
San Diego would have been under Mormon law if it did. Would make an interesting alternative history…
spdrun wrote:Yeah, but is a [quote=spdrun]Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper? At least the proposed State of Deseret never happened.
San Diego would have been under Mormon law if it did. Would make an interesting alternative history…
I have to laugh at that ancient map of UT, spdrun. Thanks for sharing.
Yup, it just so happens that SoCal, NV, AZ and the western slope of CO are all full of Mormons to this day!
scaredyclassic
July 5, 2014 @
6:39 PM
bearishgurl wrote:spdrun [quote=bearishgurl][quote=spdrun]Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper? At least the proposed State of Deseret never happened.
San Diego would have been under Mormon law if it did. Would make an interesting alternative history…
I have to laugh at that ancient map of UT, spdrun. Thanks for sharing.
Yup, it just so happens that SoCal, NV, AZ and the western slope of CO are all full of Mormons to this day![/quote]
i really really dig mormon history. AMERICAN MASSACRE is extremly interesting. mormons tell us a lot about who we are.
plus, just the balls on Jospeh Smith are an inspiration….
i love Mormons.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
4:43 PM
spdrun wrote:Yeah, but is a [quote=spdrun]Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper?[/quote]
No.
bearishgurl
July 5, 2014 @
3:17 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll confess something. I stand in slack-jawed awe at the Mormon Church and their ability to generate stunning amounts of money.[/quote]As only a semi-practicing Catholic who has substantial personal experience with SoCal Mormons, it is my humble opinion that the sole reason they are able to generate so much money is because “Mormonism” is actually a “business” (with cult-like “business practices”).
No offense is intended here to any Piggs who are practicing Mormons.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
4:42 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Allan from [quote=bearishgurl][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll confess something. I stand in slack-jawed awe at the Mormon Church and their ability to generate stunning amounts of money.[/quote]As only a semi-practicing Catholic who has substantial personal experience with SoCal Mormons, it is my humble opinion that the sole reason they are able to generate so much money is because “Mormonism” is actually a “business” (with cult-like “business practices”).
No offense is intended here to any Piggs who are practicing Mormons.[/quote]
BG: I’m schizophrenic relative to my Catholicism. I’m alternately proud and mortified. Being educated by both Franciscans and Jesuits, I’ve seen the Mother Church as both caring and rapacious. But I also believe that the church has largely tried to do good work and runs thousands of schools and hospitals throughout the world. With the Mormon Church, it seems to be a business first and a church second. Yeah, I know all about glass houses and rock chucking, and these are just my impressions.
svelte
July 6, 2014 @
6:52 PM
paramount wrote:America: [quote=paramount]America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).[/quote]
Funny. Every time my wife goes to Utah on business, she has her cc number stolen. What a fine upstanding state that is.
paramount
July 6, 2014 @
11:51 PM
If you want a vision of the If you want a vision of the future America, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever. – George Orwell
spdrun
July 5, 2014 @
12:14 PM
I don’t think so.
You’d
I don’t think so.
You’d develop some kind of medication condition.
I think (short of a WW-II style war of survival which I understand and might even sign up to fight in), I’d be so frustrated with the US that I’d leave. Maybe I do love the US more than I give credit for which is why I get so damn irate when the gov’t engages in stupid.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
1:28 PM
spdrun wrote:
I don’t think [quote=spdrun]
I don’t think so.
You’d develop some kind of medication condition.
I think (short of a WW-II style war of survival which I understand and might even sign up to fight in), I’d be so frustrated with the US that I’d leave. Maybe I do love the US more than I give credit for which is why I get so damn irate when the gov’t engages in stupid.[/quote]
But even WWII becomes somewhat suspect, when you view America’s participation and how the war was prosecuted to advance our own agenda and aims (see Bretton Woods as an example).
You once referred to Eisenhower’s warning about the rise of the Military Industrial Complex, but left out the part where Eisenhower presided over one of the largest peacetime military expansions in American history, including the Interstate Highway program, which was largely military in nature.
My point is that you can argue about the government’s stupidity, but nearly all government actions are in support of advancing American interests and have been since the beginning of this great republic.
paramount
July 4, 2014 @
11:33 PM
Red white and blue, gaze in
Red white and blue, gaze in your looking glass
You’re not a child anymore
Red, white, and blue, the future is all but past
So lift up your heart, make a new start
And lead us away from here
paramount wrote:Red white and [quote=paramount]Red white and blue, gaze in your looking glass
You’re not a child anymore
Red, white, and blue, the future is all but past
So lift up your heart, make a new start
And lead us away from here
Geez, why not “Come Sail Away”? I always loved that song.
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
11:36 AM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
So, you argue against rampant mercantilism by engaging in it?
[/quote]
I think by mercantilism you meant the culture of consumption. Actually, I don’t engage in rampant consumption. But I fully understand that our consumer culture is what creates economies of scale that allow me and other people who contribute a few dollars here and there to enjoy the luxurious real estate “palaces” dedicated to consumption.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
And what does that have to with love of one’s country?
[/quote]
I’m getting a good deal, a good “quality of life.” American consumer society provides me with tremendous opportunities.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Do you feel you have an obligation to make the country better as a citizen through the social compact? [/quote]
Of course, I feel an obligation to make it better. I think I do my fair share.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Or, is it easier to sneeringly dismiss what’s around you while simultaneously accepting no responsibility to make it better?[/quote]
I actually don’t dismiss what’s around me. I view with open eyes some of the contradictions in our society. For example consumer culture leads to obesity, but obesity is better than want and hunger. I think that we, as a country, suffer less material want than any other sizeable country.
BTW, you’ve commented on other people’s comments. But you didn’t answer the question.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 5, 2014 @
11:43 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from [quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
So, you argue against rampant mercantilism by engaging in it?
[/quote]
I think by mercantilism you meant the culture of consumption. Actually, I don’t engage in rampant consumption. But I fully understand that our consumer culture is what creates economies of scale that allow me and other people who contribute a few dollars here and there to enjoy the luxurious real estate “palaces” dedicated to consumption.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
And what does that have to with love of one’s country?
[/quote]
I’m getting a good deal, a good “quality of life.” American consumer society provides me with tremendous opportunities.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Do you feel you have an obligation to make the country better as a citizen through the social compact? [/quote]
Of course, I feel an obligation to make it better. I think I do my fair share.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Or, is it easier to sneeringly dismiss what’s around you while simultaneously accepting no responsibility to make it better?[/quote]
I actually don’t dismiss what’s around me. I view with open eyes some of the contradictions in our society. For example consumer culture leads to obesity, but obesity is better than want and hunger. I think that we, as a country, suffer less material want than any other sizeable country.
BTW, you’ve commented on other people’s comments. But you didn’t answer the question.[/quote]
Which question? You’ve been kind enough to answer mine, I’d be happy to answer yours.
FlyerInHi
July 5, 2014 @
7:47 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Which question? You'[/quote]
The OP’s question. And why.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 6, 2014 @
8:55 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from [quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Which question? You'[/quote]
The OP’s question. And why.[/quote]
Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.
FlyerInHi
July 6, 2014 @
10:56 AM
Allan from Fallbrook wrote: [quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.[/quote]
That’s a good answer… but that kind of love seems unsatisfying.
It implies experience and comparison to the most awesome. You pick the very best, the shinning city on the hill, to love.
Is there room for the small village at the bottom of the valley?
I have neighbors who are Serbians, now naturalized Americans. Their sons were born here but they only speak Serbian because they love Serbia and have very strong attachment to the culture. The grandmother just came over to raise the kids while the parents go out to earn a pretty good living. They save up vacation and go back to Serbia every chance they get. They are not interested in traveling anywhere else.
I don’t think that, as Americans, they love America less then we do. But they also love Serbia maybe more although it’s a poor, war town country with plenty of governance problems.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 6, 2014 @
11:09 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from [quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.[/quote]
That’s a good answer… but that kind of love seems unsatisfying.
It implies experience and comparison to the most awesome. You pick the very best, the shinning city on the hill, to love.
Is there room for the small village at the bottom of the valley?
I have neighbors who are Serbians, now naturalized Americans. Their sons were born here but they only speak Serbian because they love Serbia and have very strong attachment to the culture. The grandmother just came over to raise the kids while the parents go out to earn a pretty good living. They save up vacation and go back to Serbia every chance they get. They are not interested in traveling anywhere else.
I don’t think that, as Americans, they love America less then we do. But they also love Serbia maybe more although it’s a poor, war town country with plenty of governance problems.[/quote]
I’m first-generation American on my dad’s side. My grandma, who was a teacher at a small college, left Germany in 1935 after witnessing her first book burning. She came to the US with no money, no English and two small kids in tow (my grandfather opted to remain there). She settled in Chicago and got to work. By the time she retired, she was teaching lit at Northwestern.
For me, this is the American Dream. Do I believe it’s only possible here? Nope. But I think America has that special something that brings people here in droves. Watch a citizenship ceremony sometime. Man, if that doesn’t choke you up a little, I don’t know what will.
In spite of all the bullshit, the promise of America still remains.
paramount
July 6, 2014 @
11:20 AM
Police State [img_assist|nid=18193|title=Police State|desc=|link=node|align=center|width=466|height=363]
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.[/quote]
That’s a good answer… but that kind of love seems unsatisfying.
It implies experience and comparison to the most awesome. You pick the very best, the shinning city on the hill, to love.
Is there room for the small village at the bottom of the valley?
I have neighbors who are Serbians, now naturalized Americans. Their sons were born here but they only speak Serbian because they love Serbia and have very strong attachment to the culture. The grandmother just came over to raise the kids while the parents go out to earn a pretty good living. They save up vacation and go back to Serbia every chance they get. They are not interested in traveling anywhere else.
I don’t think that, as Americans, they love America less then we do. But they also love Serbia maybe more although it’s a poor, war town country with plenty of governance problems.[/quote]
I’m first-generation American on my dad’s side. My grandma, who was a teacher at a small college, left Germany in 1935 after witnessing her first book burning. She came to the US with no money, no English and two small kids in tow (my grandfather opted to remain there). She settled in Chicago and got to work. By the time she retired, she was teaching lit at Northwestern.
For me, this is the American Dream. Do I believe it’s only possible here? Nope. But I think America has that special something that brings people here in droves. Watch a citizenship ceremony sometime. Man, if that doesn’t choke you up a little, I don’t know what will.
In spite of all the bullshit, the promise of America still remains.[/quote]
This country has been unbelievably good to my people. My tiny midget great grandpa carried mattresses up and down stairs in some weird nyc mattress factory. Then his son was a lawyer and his sons more successful. Culminating in me I guess. Well OK there’s been some backsliding but that’s to be expected…
Allan from Fallbrook
July 6, 2014 @
12:46 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
This [quote=scaredyclassic]
This country has been unbelievably good to my people. My tiny midget great grandpa carried mattresses up and down stairs in some weird nyc mattress factory. Then his son was a lawyer and his sons more successful. Culminating in me I guess. Well OK there’s been some backsliding but that’s to be expected…[/quote]
Yup. My dad was an aeronautical engineer with a Master’s degree, and my uncle was an investment banker with an MBA from Stanford. Both put themselves through school on the GI Bill, after fighting in the Pacific War and the Korean War. Not a lot of sympathy in our family for those who weren’t willing to work hard and strive.
I learned to bust my ass at a young age and I have worked for everything I have. Is this the only way to do things? Nope. But it’s served me well.
CA renter
July 7, 2014 @
1:37 AM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=scaredyclassic]
This country has been unbelievably good to my people. My tiny midget great grandpa carried mattresses up and down stairs in some weird nyc mattress factory. Then his son was a lawyer and his sons more successful. Culminating in me I guess. Well OK there’s been some backsliding but that’s to be expected…[/quote]
Yup. My dad was an aeronautical engineer with a Master’s degree, and my uncle was an investment banker with an MBA from Stanford. Both put themselves through school on the GI Bill, after fighting in the Pacific War and the Korean War. Not a lot of sympathy in our family for those who weren’t willing to work hard and strive.
I learned to bust my ass at a young age and I have worked for everything I have. Is this the only way to do things? Nope. But it’s served me well.[/quote]
Much like your parents, my parents had the same sort of trajectory. One was an immigrant with no money, the other came from a poor chicken farm. No connections, no money from parents, just hard work and determination that enabled them to achieve a decidedly uppper-middle class lifestyle.
Do you think this is still achievable on the same level today? I don’t, and in their waning years, my parents also thought we had largely lost the ability of most children to do better than their parents’ generation. Too much corruption, too much of a misallocation of resources, too much concentration of wealth and power. I just don’t think it’s the same today as it was ~40+ years ago.
Do you think this is still achievable on the same level today? I don’t, and in their waning years, my parents also thought we had largely lost the ability of most children to do better than their parents’ generation. Too much corruption, too much of a misallocation of resources, too much concentration of wealth and power. I just don’t think it’s the same today as it was ~40+ years ago.
[/quote]
CAR: No, I don’t believe it’s possible in this day and age. For example, I walked into McDonald’s with a work permit and got the job on the spot. Nowadays, I’m surprised when I see a teenager working at McDonald’s.
I’d routinely work two to three jobs in the summer (I was a grubby little plutocrat from a young age), and finding work was generally a snap. It’s not like that anymore.
Plus, as terrible as this is to say, I was an upper-middle class white kid in private school and a lot of doors opened, or were open, as a result. I still enjoy a lot of advantages, whether tied to upbringing and education, or being former military, and I capitalize on all of them.
It’s a lot different if you’re having to fight uphill due to ethnicity, lack of intact family, lack of resources, subpar education, etc.
This is one of those taboo subjects, but there is an undiscussed war on the poor and the underclass in this country, and it starts with the tax rolls (or lack thereof) and how kids are educated, or not.
If you don’t have that foundation, you’re pretty well fucked. Sorry, got off on a little bit of a rant there.
CA renter
July 7, 2014 @
6:26 PM
Allan, I think you and I are Allan, I think you and I are about the same age and come from similar circumstances, and our work/life experiences are similar (Brian’s, too).
I worry about the world that our kids are going to be dealing with. It’s just not the same, IMO.
Totally agree with you about the war on the poor/underclass, though those kids might be better off going forward than the kids of privilege. If you check out the article I’ve linked above, you’ll see that the poor people still feel as though there are better opportunities, and the kids *are* doing better than their (usually immigrant) parents’ generation.
Of course, it’s easier to move up when your at the very bottom than it is to stay at the top when you’re at/near the pinnacle. I’d say that many of us were born in a time and place that put us near the pinnacle, globally speaking. Not as easy to hold onto that position, which might be why we see so much middle-class angst in the US.
scaredyclassic
July 7, 2014 @
7:44 PM
im not that worried about my im not that worried about my kids. i don’t expect much. i think they’ll have a good time.
flyer
July 7, 2014 @
8:37 PM
IMO, and, again, I’ll say–it IMO, and, again, I’ll say–it is just my opinion–that life is about whether you achieve your dreams or not–whatever they may be. For me, and I think for most of my peers, that was the essence of life. We didn’t really think about whether the dreams we had were easy or difficult–we just went after
them–because we really wanted to.
I just don’t see that same intensity in some of the young people today. I don’t know if it’s because they don’t care about anything enough or, more likely, they don’t want to try, because they know they won’t be able to achieve their goals.
When referring to their parents, in relation to their future plans in life, the kids of some of our friends have said to us, “Why should we work when they do?” Seriously sad to have no dreams at all.
scaredyclassic
July 7, 2014 @
9:27 PM
Life is definitely not about Life is definitely not about whether you achieve your dreams.
It’s more of a long strange trip where you never get anywhere. Cause you’re always there.
Maybe kids wised up. I don’t know man. Seems too resultsy based. Like if you fail to achieve your dreams you wasted your life.
Chasing dreams is bound statistically to end in failure at least in terms of pro sports.
I see life as more of a daily effort to be a good honest dude, to have a laugh, fulfill some duties, eat and drink a happy meal together. That’s life.
flyer
July 7, 2014 @
11:04 PM
As always, good to hear your As always, good to hear your opinion, scaredy. I agree dreams are not ALL life is about. Of course there are many other things as you mentioned, and more–but, at least for me, and many people I know, achieving our dreams was and is a very important part of our lives.
Could be because we were raised by super over-achievers.
We’ve all enjoyed our lives–so it seems to have worked out so far–but to each his or her own.
FlyerInHi
July 8, 2014 @
3:06 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
Chasing [quote=scaredyclassic]
Chasing dreams is bound statistically to end in failure at least in terms of pro sports.
[/quote]
I think that kids did wise up. I noticed that the younger generation is happier. Happy, happy enjoying each other’s company as long as they have enough money. Older people are more worried in a negative way. Like you said earlier, freedom is having nothing to lose. We have too much to lose.
Plus if you judge yourself in comparison to others, there will always be someone richer, better looking, more accomplished than you. It’s a tough life.
flyer
July 8, 2014 @
4:23 PM
Although many might, we’ve Although many might, we’ve never felt setting goals and achieving them was a competitive thing, and have never compared ourselves to others who might be wealthier, better looking, etc., etc. We’ve also never encouraged our kids to think about life that way either.
For us, it’s always been about doing what we love, achieving our personal best, and seeing where that takes us. I can only speak from our experiences, and for the most part, it’s been a happy and fulfilling life for all of us.
I hope young people today, whatever they do, can support themselves, and also find that same sense of fulfillment.
scaredyclassic
July 8, 2014 @
4:37 PM
I can’t imagine being made I can’t imagine being made happy by achieving a particular goal nowadays.
For instance I want to be strong. But I wouldn’t be happy if I were strong. I like getting there. But once you’re there…what? Where are you?
I’d like to have a million in the bank but I’m pretty darn sure if I did tomorrow I wouldn’t be a tiny bit happier.
All the little microgoals are a blur the macro goals are fleeting as soon as they are achieved. Everything returning to dust.
paramount
July 8, 2014 @
11:45 PM
Could it be that US destiny Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?
Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.
CA renter
July 9, 2014 @
1:59 AM
paramount wrote:Could it be [quote=paramount]Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?[/quote]
You’re joking, right?
[quote=paramount]Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.[/quote]
Gosh, you sound like a socialist here! 😉
scaredyclassic
July 9, 2014 @
7:20 AM
is the main purpose of the is the main purpose of the USA that it’s a place people move to make a buck?
isn’t that why most people have picked up and come over here the last 100 years? if things were good where they were, moneywise, they’d stay put, right?
scaredyclassic
July 9, 2014 @
7:21 AM
CA renter wrote:paramount [quote=CA renter][quote=paramount]Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?[/quote]
You’re joking, right?
[quote=paramount]Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.[/quote]
Gosh, you sound like a socialist here! ;)[/quote]
john wayne, ronald reagan, clint eastwood; hasn’t america always been about pretending the power of the individual to overcome and win is in our cards?
CA renter
July 9, 2014 @
5:42 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
john [quote=scaredyclassic]
john wayne, ronald reagan, clint eastwood; hasn’t america always been about pretending the power of the individual to overcome and win is in our cards?[/quote]
Pretty much. I just hate the fact that so many Americans think that we’re superior to others and that we have the right, duty, and obligation to force everyone else to do what we command of them. And we always seem to do this in the name of “freedom and democracy.” It’s pretty sick.
scaredyclassic
July 9, 2014 @
7:14 PM
CA renter [quote=CA renter][quote=scaredyclassic]
john wayne, ronald reagan, clint eastwood; hasn’t america always been about pretending the power of the individual to overcome and win is in our cards?[/quote]
Pretty much. I just hate the fact that so many Americans think that we’re superior to others and that we have the right, duty, and obligation to force everyone else to do what we command of them. And we always seem to do this in the name of “freedom and democracy.” It’s pretty sick.[/quote]
i think the story we tell ourselves and the world is we have spent so much time money and energy ever since wwii ensuring that the world is and will be safe that the world owes us big time. BIG TIME….we shoulder the costs and the danger of making the world a safe place..
of course, that story might be bullshit.
the world definitely thinks it is a load of bullshit, nowadays anyway, as polling indicates that the world thinks the greatest danger to world peace is the USA.
that fact alone might give one pause in accepting the narrative that we make the world safe. it might be true, it might have been true,but there’s no way to really test it or know it. maybe we were making the world way more dangerous. how can we know without alternative worlds playing out? My sense is that whatever safety we provided is history…and that we are now more dangerous than anyone.
it is difficult to love your psychotic, narcissistic, enraged Uncle Sam. but, he’s family…
scaredyclassic
July 9, 2014 @
7:23 PM
in reality though, does it in reality though, does it really matter if you like the country youre living in? it’s all kind of theoretical. your day to day life is going to be similar anywhere you go. you’ll wake up. you’ll maybe have some coffee. You’ll pee.
if you’re working you’ll stumble off to work. probably you’ll get there half awake, but there’s ll be some stuff going on. you’ll doa few things, maybe geta little stressed out, maybe not. Ypu’l eat lunch. You’ll poop if things are going well. Later, you’ll have a drink, a bit of dinner, you’ll talk about the day, its good things, its miseries, a funny incident, maybe read a book, watch tv, make love to your wife.
what difference does it make what country you’re in, as long as some basic safety/material needs are met?
scaredyclassic
July 9, 2014 @
7:47 PM
I kinda love the USA though. I kinda love the USA though. It seems wacked out and I find its craziness fascinating
svelte
July 9, 2014 @
8:59 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:I kinda [quote=scaredyclassic]I kinda love the USA though. It seems wacked out and I find its craziness fascinating[/quote]
Yeah. But I’ve spent some time reading old newspapers – from the late 1800s and early 1900s.
And you know what? This country has always been whacked out. I suspect all countries are.
But over time, I think good is prevailing here…and things are getting better. If you step back and look at the big big picture and don’t get caught up in the minutiae.
That’s why it’s spooky to watch countries like Iraq where good appears to be on the ropes at the moment.
paramount
July 9, 2014 @
10:17 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
what [quote=scaredyclassic]
what difference does it make what country you’re in, as long as some basic safety/material needs are met?[/quote]
I have been told: Man does not live on bread and water alone.
scaredyclassic
July 10, 2014 @
7:42 AM
paramount [quote=paramount][quote=scaredyclassic]
what difference does it make what country you’re in, as long as some basic safety/material needs are met?[/quote]
I have been told: Man does not live on bread and water alone.[/quote]
true. man requires the occasional intoxicant.
the bible may not mention abortion, but it sure does talk about wine a lot…
NotCranky
July 9, 2014 @
8:37 AM
CA renter wrote:paramount [quote=CA renter][quote=paramount]Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?[/quote]
You’re joking, right?
[quote=paramount]Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.[/quote]
Gosh, you sound like a socialist here! ;)[/quote]
He doesn’t sound like a socialist, I was thinking the same thing. What people are really saying is : I love my circumstances. I love the privileged life I lead and national features that were here before Christopher Columbus sailed. When pushed they add I hate free loaders. I am sure if we were conquered my circumstances would worsen but loving the U.S.A for holding up my privileged life that doesn’t say much in depth about the U.S.A. or my own values.
NotCranky
July 9, 2014 @
8:48 AM
We are all freeloaders with We are all freeloaders with our subsidized farms and gas and our free rides on the military established to control through violence access and favor in Markets and money and resources in other countries. It’s not made in America because it’s easier to squeeze out of someone else. So what freedom are we talking about?
scaredyclassic
July 9, 2014 @
9:36 AM
I’m proud to be an I’m proud to be an American
Where at least I know I’m free
That song lyric always sounded so sad…like he gas nothing , except a vague undefined notion that he has freedom…but in what way?
CA renter
July 9, 2014 @
5:37 PM
Blogstar wrote:
He doesn’t [quote=Blogstar]
He doesn’t sound like a socialist, I was thinking the same thing. What people are really saying is : I love my circumstances. I love the privileged life I lead and national features that were here before Christopher Columbus sailed. When pushed they add I hate free loaders. I am sure if we were conquered my circumstances would worsen but loving the U.S.A for holding up my privileged life that doesn’t say much in depth about the U.S.A. or my own values.[/quote]
When he said “something much larger at work,” I assumed he was thinking about building a better society, as opposed to focusing only on the individual. That’s why it sounded socialistic to me.
NotCranky
July 9, 2014 @
6:00 PM
CA renter wrote:Blogstar [quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar]
He doesn’t sound like a socialist, I was thinking the same thing. What people are really saying is : I love my circumstances. I love the privileged life I lead and national features that were here before Christopher Columbus sailed. When pushed they add I hate free loaders. I am sure if we were conquered my circumstances would worsen but loving the U.S.A for holding up my privileged life that doesn’t say much in depth about the U.S.A. or my own values.[/quote]
When he said “something much larger at work,” I assumed he was thinking about building a better society, as opposed to focusing only on the individual. That’s why it sounded socialistic to me.[/quote]
Maybe I got him wrong on his meaning too. Still, I understand being satisfied as an American but not a reason to thing the country is really Lovable,, like pledge of allegiance lovable.
CA renter
July 9, 2014 @
6:01 PM
Agreed. Agreed.
paramount
July 9, 2014 @
10:26 PM
Blogstar wrote:
Maybe I got [quote=Blogstar]
Maybe I got him wrong on his meaning too. Still, I understand being satisfied as an American but not a reason to thing the country is really Lovable,, like pledge of allegiance lovable.[/quote]
No, I’m not a socialist, it was just a moment of weakness while listening to: Neil Diamond, America
I’m a small govt libertarian who’s tired of losing my freedoms and my hard earned money to Washington and Sacramento.
CA renter
July 9, 2014 @
11:22 PM
You’re losing your money to You’re losing your money to the corporatists and financial elite, paramount, not to Washington and Sacramento (though, all too often, the govt is the puppet of the corporatists and financial elite).
Maybe I got him wrong on his meaning too. Still, I understand being satisfied as an American but not a reason to thing the country is really Lovable,, like pledge of allegiance lovable.[/quote]
No, I’m not a socialist, it was just a moment of weakness while listening to: Neil Diamond, America
I’m a small govt libertarian who’s tired of losing my freedoms and my hard earned money to Washington and Sacramento.[/quote]
i understand. neil diamond is pretty intense. i was listening to BREAD in my car, playing, that I would give everything i own, give up my lfie my heart my home just to have you back again song and i felt kinda romantic.
libertarianism is pretty cool. I always consider people who want all drugs legalized allies int he fight for freedom, much mroe so than any military action. teh single greatest way to bring down gov expenditures i think might be to legalize drugs. it costs so much money on so many levels.
CA renter
July 7, 2014 @
11:04 PM
flyer wrote:
I just don’t see [quote=flyer]
I just don’t see that same intensity in some of the young people today. I don’t know if it’s because they don’t care about anything enough or, more likely, they don’t want to try, because they know they won’t be able to achieve their goals.
When referring to their parents, in relation to their future plans in life, the kids of some of our friends have said to us, “Why should we work when they do?” Seriously sad to have no dreams at all.[/quote]
I really think it’s because they believe they don’t have the same opportunities that we did. When we were growing up, it was assumed that we would be more successful than our parents. That’s no longer the case.
Also, they’re getting an earful about how “useless” their various degrees are, and about how people in less developed countries are hungry for their jobs and are willing to work in harsh circumstances for little pay. Instead of motivating them, I think it just becomes disheartening, and they lose interest.
flyer
July 7, 2014 @
11:08 PM
Understand, CAR–have read Understand, CAR–have read all of the same. It’s a very difficult time for young people, but, I hope there is an answer for them somewhere.
svelte
July 9, 2014 @
9:03 PM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
It’s a lot different if you’re having to fight uphill due to ethnicity, lack of intact family, lack of resources, subpar education, etc.
This is one of those taboo subjects, but there is an undiscussed war on the poor and the underclass in this country, and it starts with the tax rolls (or lack thereof) and how kids are educated, or not.
If you don’t have that foundation, you’re pretty well fucked.[/quote]
I like you Allan.
You’re in it for the good of the whole…and I respect that immensely.
We don’t always agree on the right way to go about making this a better country, but your heart is in the right place.
FlyerInHi
July 7, 2014 @
9:20 AM
Allan from Fallbrook wrote: [quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Not a lot of sympathy in our family for those who weren’t willing to work hard and strive.
I learned to bust my ass at a young age and I have worked for everything I have. Is this the only way to do things? Nope. But it’s served me well.[/quote]
I guess I’m grateful for being a slacker.
I can’t say that I’ve really busted ass in anything that I did. To claim that I worked hard would be to minimize the work of those who really do.
School came easy and jobs pretty much fell in my lap.
Even with my real estate investing and the remodeling required, my level of effort was no more than that of a hobbyist carpenter.
I think that with more ambition, I could have achieved a lot more.
My sympathies are for those who work hard but don’t strive. There are millions.
spdrun
July 6, 2014 @
11:13 AM
Shining city on the hill. Shining city on the hill. Hah! We have good aspects, but also a lot of problems…
(1) Letting the religious crazies run amuck. I’m not against organized religion, but it has little place in government.
(2) Piss-poor investment in infrastructure. Drive on a US Interstate and one in a well-managed foreign country, and you’ll see the difference.
(3) Letting the fearmongers from the media who will sell any amount of fear for a piece of silver run amuck. Yeah, yeah, freedom of speech, but if there wasn’t a market for lurid gore, it wouldn’t be sold.
I wish they would STOP! talking about every shooting and kidnapping as if it were the norm. You know that in Germany, kids as young as seven or eight are not only encouraged, but almost required to walk to school without parents? Whereas in many parts of the US, this would almost be considered abusive.
(4) Lack of good social safety nets combined with policies that discourage any sort of meaningful saving. Maybe if people had a cushion to fall back on whenever there was a recession, spending wouldn’t fall as dramatically. Psychologically, people who have money are more likely to open their wallets than the hand-to-mouth crowd.
(5) Generally unequal levels of education and knowledge. We might have the best educational system in the world on the high end, but it’s also very unequal, even between different schools in the same city or county.
(6) Too much concentration on faddy industries. Whether I.T. now or biotech in the early 90s. Not enough competent engineers in other fields being turned out. Everyone wants to go to Hollywood, or Sillycone Valley. Fewer people want to work on infrastructure improvement, civil engineering, etc.
(7) We have the technology to almost 100% wean from fossil fuels. Why aren’t we doing it other than in niche markets?
Allan from Fallbrook
July 4, 2014 @
7:09 PM
paramount wrote:flyer wrote:I [quote=paramount][quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
I figured it wouldn’t be long until someone pulled the love it or leave it card.
That expression was a personal favorite of Joseph McCarthy.[/quote]
Paramount: Doesn’t it strike you as a mite disingenuous to argue the Tea Party’s corner and then come back with referencing McCarthy?
Coronita
July 5, 2014 @
4:20 PM
Man… the hate…..
And I Man… the hate…..
And I thought I was bad, you know being conservative and all…
UCGal
July 9, 2014 @
8:08 AM
I pretty much blindly “loved” I pretty much blindly “loved” America as the best, most freedom, etc until I was in my early 20’s.
I had a Canadian neighbor who was in San Diego on a work internship for a year. We had these deep conversations about the concept of Patriotism. Every argument I had for why the USA was superior – he tossed back Canada. And Canada came out ahead in some cases.
We talked about other countries as well – and there were several that had the features I find attractive: democracy, capitalism and the idea that you could work hard and get ahead. Not just the USA and Canada… Australia, New Zealand, Costa Rica, etc.
We like to feel that we are superior – that no other country offers what we have in the USA… but there are other countries, who’s citizens justifiably feel their country is superior (or equal) and offers them opportunities.
FlyerInHi
July 9, 2014 @
1:19 PM
Canadians love their country Canadians love their country but not their weather.
Canadians also love the “resort” communities we have here. That’s why they are all over the sunbelt.
One of my Canadian friends has many relatives here. She said that prior to the 1950s Canadians were allowed to come and become US citizens. Lots of English and Irish came to the USA by way of Canada because it was easier.
CA renter
July 9, 2014 @
5:35 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Canadians [quote=FlyerInHi]Canadians love their country but not their weather.
Canadians also love the “resort” communities we have here. That’s why they are all over the sunbelt.
One of my Canadian friends has many relatives here. She said that prior to the 1950s Canadians were allowed to come and become US citizens. Lots of English and Irish came to the USA by way of Canada because it was easier.[/quote]
That’s how my mom got in, too. She lived in Ontario and, while freezing and wearing double coats, they were watching the Rose Parade on TV. She said that watching those girls in bathing suits (her words) and the palm trees in the background with the beautiful weather made her realize how crazy she was to be in Canada, so she moved here just two weeks later. It was much easier to become a US citizen through Canada because the US didn’t want to grant citizenship to Germans and Austrians after WWII, so many Germanic people came via Canada.
svelte
July 10, 2014 @
8:04 AM
When people say we’re losing When people say we’re losing our freedoms in America, I always wonder what year they feel was better.
Back when women couldn’t vote?
Back when slavery was in use?
Maybe when we had “separate but equal”?
During Prohibition?
When abortion was illegal?
We are getting a few returned to us right now too, witness Washington/Colorado.
We are also winning new ones, like gay marriage.
But alas, polygamy is still against the law. Damn politicians!
scaredyclassic
July 10, 2014 @
8:31 AM
Net Freedom increased as soon Net Freedom increased as soon as I moved out of my parents house
zk
July 10, 2014 @
11:26 AM
svelte wrote:When people say [quote=svelte]When people say we’re losing our freedoms in America, I always wonder what year they feel was better.
Back when women couldn’t vote?
Back when slavery was in use?
Maybe when we had “separate but equal”?
During Prohibition?
When abortion was illegal?
We are getting a few returned to us right now too, witness Washington/Colorado.
We are also winning new ones, like gay marriage.
But alas, polygamy is still against the law. Damn politicians![/quote]
Good points.
Polygamy. It’s funny that the usual fantasy of polygamy is so different from what we know it would really be like. Just imagine a guy who likes things clean, streamlined, and uncluttered (Svelte) having TWO wives. Oh, the horror.
scaredyclassic
July 10, 2014 @
12:49 PM
Pol ygamy is an icky word. Pol ygamy is an icky word. We don’t call marriage to one woman monogamy. We need a new word.
Marriages.
Marriage plus.
Multimarriage.
Manymarry.
Seems wrong to prohibit successful dudes from having many wives. Shouldn’t have to do it on the sly. If i have the money or the looks why shouldn’t i sire 50 or 100 legitimate sons?
I don’t know
.seems odd to have a society with as many illegitimate kids as we do and not allow multimarriages. I of course can only deal with .2 wives.
FlyerInHi
July 10, 2014 @
1:14 PM
I know a guy who’s I know a guy who’s polygamous. A Vietnam vet. He married a gal while on R&R in the Philippines. Then he went back home and left her there. Never bothered to divorce or anything. He’s been remarried 3 times since then.
Seems irresponsible because that first wife has rights to his assets, etc…
CA renter
July 11, 2014 @
2:49 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:Pol [quote=scaredyclassic]Pol ygamy is an icky word. We don’t call marriage to one woman monogamy. We need a new word.
Marriages.
Marriage plus.
Multimarriage.
Manymarry.
Seems wrong to prohibit successful dudes from having many wives. Shouldn’t have to do it on the sly. If i have the money or the looks why shouldn’t i sire 50 or 100 legitimate sons?
I don’t know
.seems odd to have a society with as many illegitimate kids as we do and not allow multimarriages. I of course can only deal with .2 wives.[/quote]
Not only that, but it would actually offer better protection to first families if men weren’t allowed/forced to leave one family for another.
From a purely logical perspective, polygamy makes sense. Better than the serial polygamy we live with now, IMO.
scaredyclassic
July 11, 2014 @
7:22 AM
if i only want to have sex if i only want to have sex once a week, and i have 200 wives, there’s gonna be a 4 year waitlist…gonna be hard to get everyone pregnant at that rate. im going to need a fulltime fertility coordinator to schedule appointments…or ramp up mysex schedule…
it’s just too complicated.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 11, 2014 @
9:03 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:if i [quote=scaredyclassic]if i only want to have sex once a week, and i have 200 wives, there’s gonna be a 4 year waitlist…gonna be hard to get everyone pregnant at that rate. im going to need a fulltime fertility coordinator to schedule appointments…or ramp up mysex schedule…
it’s just too complicated.[/quote]
Wow. That escalated quickly.
Tying that back into love of country, there’s that line in “Full Metal Jacket” where Animal Mother says, “If I’m dying for a word, it ain’t freedom. It’s poontang.”
scaredyclassic
July 11, 2014 @
9:43 AM
I think a more realistic goal I think a more realistic goal for me personally is 10 wives and have sex 1.5 times average per week. That way everyone is covered quarterly, and I can build in a buffer if I get tired.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 11, 2014 @
9:56 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:I think [quote=scaredyclassic]I think a more realistic goal for me personally is 10 wives and have sex 1.5 times average per week. That way everyone is covered quarterly, and I can build in a buffer if I get tired.[/quote]
You could probably also hire an extra guy to help carry the load, as it were.
spdrun
July 11, 2014 @
9:47 AM
From a purely logical
From a purely logical perspective, polygamy makes sense. Better than the serial polygamy we live with now, IMO.
Problem is that the wealthier men would monopolize the women (unless you’re also allowing polyandry or amorphous poly-families). Sex-starvation in the “other” men would tend to lead to things like war fever and uncontrollable rage.
A roughly 1:1 pairing of hetero people makes the most sense for social harmony.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 11, 2014 @
9:55 AM
spdrun wrote:
From a purely [quote=spdrun]
From a purely logical perspective, polygamy makes sense. Better than the serial polygamy we live with now, IMO.
Problem is that the wealthier men would monopolize the women (unless you’re also allowing polyandry or amorphous poly-families). Sex-starvation in the “other” men would tend to lead to things like war fever and uncontrollable rage.
A roughly 1:1 pairing of hetero people makes the most sense for social harmony.[/quote]
Which is why China is heading for trouble.
CA renter
July 12, 2014 @
12:00 AM
spdrun wrote:
From a purely [quote=spdrun]
From a purely logical perspective, polygamy makes sense. Better than the serial polygamy we live with now, IMO.
Problem is that the wealthier men would monopolize the women (unless you’re also allowing polyandry or amorphous poly-families). Sex-starvation in the “other” men would tend to lead to things like war fever and uncontrollable rage.
A roughly 1:1 pairing of hetero people makes the most sense for social harmony.[/quote]
Probably true, but beautiful women monopolize men, too. What should we do about that? Don’t we need equality for the less attractive women, too? 😉
scaredyclassic
July 12, 2014 @
9:40 AM
There’s no point to any woman There’s no point to any woman having lots of men because she only has one womb.
Lately I wish I had more kids.
paramount
July 13, 2014 @
1:27 AM
Beware of Black Widows: eg Beware of Black Widows: eg Forest Hayes
spdrun
July 13, 2014 @
6:45 AM
^^^
I don’t think marriage ^^^
I don’t think marriage was ever a question in the Hayes case — the woman in question was a high-priced hooker, right?
FlyerInHi
July 13, 2014 @
9:03 AM
The Hayes case so stinks of The Hayes case so stinks of establishment privilege.
Plenty of people overdose and die. People do drugs together and die. That’s the risk. Hayes chose his fate.
Here, the establishment is saying we can’t countenance one of our own dying. He was rich and successful… He was too good to die. So we will make the hooker pay.
IMO, the girl should go free.
spdrun
July 13, 2014 @
9:12 AM
^^^
She was apparently ^^^
She was apparently involved in another death and had a weird obsession with serial killers. What if she injected him with heroin that was deliberately stronger than he expected? I don’t see a problem with this being investigated and going up in front of a grand jury at minimum.
FlyerInHi
July 13, 2014 @
9:26 AM
Like I said, establishment Like I said, establishment privilege.
This case is investigated because the dead loser was rich, successful, and a google executive, but still a loser nonetheless.
plenty of overdose cases are written off as “just another loser dying.”
Allan from Fallbrook
July 13, 2014 @
9:34 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Like I said, [quote=FlyerInHi]Like I said, establishment privilege.
This case is investigated because the dead loser was rich, successful, and a google executive, but still a loser nonetheless.
plenty of overdose cases are written off as “just another loser dying.”[/quote]
No, sorry. You’re conveniently overlooking her being caught on film. This is very much Depraved Indifference at a minimum. Add in that other case back in Georgia, I believe, along with her various Facebook postings and you have a disturbing pattern of behavior.
Yeah, he wasn’t some junkie skel in a ghetto shooting gallery, but you’re also ignoring some other big, key elements here.
FlyerInHi
July 13, 2014 @
9:57 AM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
No, sorry. You’re conveniently overlooking her being caught on film. This is very much Depraved Indifference at a minimum. Add in that other case back in Georgia, I believe, along with her various Facebook postings and you have a disturbing pattern of behavior.
Yeah, he wasn’t some junkie skel in a ghetto shooting gallery, but you’re also ignoring some other big, key elements here.[/quote]
OK, I see your point.
But the investigation of drug deaths whenever there is video evidence amounts to establishment privilege. The rich live in places where is there is security and electronic evidence of people coming and going.
So police resources are used investigate some druggie’s death when they could be doing more useful things?
I’m not saying that this death is getting special treatment…. I’m saying that the system is setup in a way that certain people automatically get special treatment.
Personally if I were at a party where some loser is passed out on the floor, I might just walk over the guy and leave. The feeling of disgust might be even stronger for an otherwise “successful” guy who should know better.
My initial reaction is that the hooker’s past is irrelevant. In the drug world, it’s not uncommon to have witnessed a death or 2.
But Ok, maybe the police might be on to something with the facebook postings, etc.. I don’t know because I didn’t read about that. My info is incomplete.
But you have to wonder if it were any other insignificant druggie if the police would have investigated further.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 13, 2014 @
10:01 AM
FIH: I do agree with your FIH: I do agree with your sentiments about class here, and, upon reflection: you’re right. His position does make a difference, along with his access to things that position buys, like cameras.
Eliminate the video and this probably never rises above a tragic accident. Yeah, this woman probably should have known better than to post what she did on Facebook, especially in her line of work, but that video was key.
And, yeah, most garden variety junkies aren’t running around wearing Google Glass.
CA renter
July 14, 2014 @
2:18 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from [quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
No, sorry. You’re conveniently overlooking her being caught on film. This is very much Depraved Indifference at a minimum. Add in that other case back in Georgia, I believe, along with her various Facebook postings and you have a disturbing pattern of behavior.
Yeah, he wasn’t some junkie skel in a ghetto shooting gallery, but you’re also ignoring some other big, key elements here.[/quote]
OK, I see your point.
But the investigation of drug deaths whenever there is video evidence amounts to establishment privilege. The rich live in places where is there is security and electronic evidence of people coming and going.
So police resources are used investigate some druggie’s death when they could be doing more useful things?
I’m not saying that this death is getting special treatment…. I’m saying that the system is setup in a way that certain people automatically get special treatment.
Personally if I were at a party where some loser is passed out on the floor, I might just walk over the guy and leave. The feeling of disgust might be even stronger for an otherwise “successful” guy who should know better.
My initial reaction is that the hooker’s past is irrelevant. In the drug world, it’s not uncommon to have witnessed a death or 2.
But Ok, maybe the police might be on to something with the facebook postings, etc.. I don’t know because I didn’t read about that. My info is incomplete.
But you have to wonder if it were any other insignificant druggie if the police would have investigated further.[/quote]
Remember when River Phoenix was dying right on the sidewalk in front of a nightclub? Tons of people walked right over and by him as he lay dying.
In the world of extreme drug addition and alcoholism, watching people pass out from getting too high/drunk is probably not at all uncommon. Not at all. And a herion addict being around when two (out of how many? she claimed to have had over 200 “customers,” alone!) friends/customers who are using heroin die? Probably not that uncommon at all.
all
July 14, 2014 @
10:07 AM
CA renter wrote:
In the world [quote=CA renter]
In the world of extreme drug addition and alcoholism, watching people pass out from getting too high/drunk is probably not at all uncommon. Not at all. And a herion addict being around when two (out of how many? she claimed to have had over 200 “customers,” alone!) friends/customers who are using heroin die? Probably not that uncommon at all.[/quote]
I was fresh of the boat when I saw a middle-aged women having a seizure in the checkout area of the local Target store. I was the only one trying to help her. One of the clerks told me I should not be doing that if I am not certified and that I could get sued even if she recovers. Not the most qualified legal advice, but I thought it shows the mindset.
CA renter
July 14, 2014 @
5:26 PM
all wrote:CA renter wrote:
In [quote=all][quote=CA renter]
In the world of extreme drug addition and alcoholism, watching people pass out from getting too high/drunk is probably not at all uncommon. Not at all. And a herion addict being around when two (out of how many? she claimed to have had over 200 “customers,” alone!) friends/customers who are using heroin die? Probably not that uncommon at all.[/quote]
I was fresh of the boat when I saw a middle-aged women having a seizure in the checkout area of the local Target store. I was the only one trying to help her. One of the clerks told me I should not be doing that if I am not certified and that I could get sued even if she recovers. Not the most qualified legal advice, but I thought it shows the mindset.[/quote]
Yes, it does. I think this is surprisingly common, unfortunately.
BTW, thank you so very much for helping that woman. I wish there were more people like you out there. It’s always sad to watch a news clip where someone is clearly in distress and everyone else is standing around watching (or intentionally ignoring them!).
spdrun
July 14, 2014 @
9:36 PM
I was fresh of the boat when
I was fresh of the boat when I saw a middle-aged women having a seizure in the checkout area of the local Target store. I was the only one trying to help her. One of the clerks told me I should not be doing that if I am not certified and that I could get sued even if she recovers. Not the most qualified legal advice, but I thought it shows the mindset.
Does CA have “Good Samaritan” laws to protect folks who render aid in good faith?
CA renter
July 15, 2014 @
12:14 AM
spdrun wrote:
I was fresh of [quote=spdrun]
I was fresh of the boat when I saw a middle-aged women having a seizure in the checkout area of the local Target store. I was the only one trying to help her. One of the clerks told me I should not be doing that if I am not certified and that I could get sued even if she recovers. Not the most qualified legal advice, but I thought it shows the mindset.
Does CA have “Good Samaritan” laws to protect folks who render aid in good faith?[/quote]
The Supreme Court of California has ruled that one good deed may very well not go unpunished — unleashing a debate not only on who is a Good Samaritan but also who shouldn’t even think about being one. On Dec. 19, the court made a decision in the case of Alexandra Van Horn v. Lisa Torti. The case alleged that Torti worsened the injuries suffered by Van Horn by yanking her “like a rag doll” from a wrecked car on Nov. 1, 2004, thus rendering Van Horn a paraplegic. The court found that Torti wasn’t protected from legal action under California’s current Good Samaritan laws.
FlyerInHi wrote:The Hayes [quote=FlyerInHi]The Hayes case so stinks of establishment privilege.
Plenty of people overdose and die. People do drugs together and die. That’s the risk. Hayes chose his fate.
Here, the establishment is saying we can’t countenance one of our own dying. He was rich and successful… He was too good to die. So we will make the hooker pay.
IMO, the girl should go free.[/quote]
Um, yeah, but the part about her being caught on film essentially watching his last moments and then finishing a glass of wine, tidying up and then leaving is going to be problematic, to say the least.
As to entitlement privilege, meh. Your point about him running the risk of death by using heroin is well taken and correct: we need cast no further back than Philip Seymour Hoffman to find another example. Entitlement privilege is so overdone right now, though.
FlyerInHi
July 13, 2014 @
9:32 AM
Allan from Fallbrook [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Um, yeah, but the part about her being caught on film essentially watching his last moments and then finishing a glass of wine, tidying up and then leaving is going to be problematic, to say the least. [/quote]
I don’t see a problem with that.
She thought the guy was passed out on drug, probably like she’s seen many times before, and said I’m leaving. She didn’t bother to check on the loser, gathered her things, enjoyed a quiet moment with the glass of wine and left.
She didn’t kill him. He killed himself.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 13, 2014 @
9:38 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from [quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Um, yeah, but the part about her being caught on film essentially watching his last moments and then finishing a glass of wine, tidying up and then leaving is going to be problematic, to say the least. [/quote]
I don’t see a problem with that.
She thought the guy was passed out on drug, probably like she’s seen many times before, and said I’m leaving. She didn’t bother to check on the loser, gathered her things, enjoyed a quiet moment with the glass of wine and left.
She didn’t kill him. He killed himself.[/quote]
I actually don’t disagree with you. Dude was a piece of shit. And the attempts to posthumously lionize him as a family man and father are pathetically sad. I’m fairly certain his wife and kids weren’t there when he shot up.
But, the police indicated that the film shows him in distress and that she was attempting to clean up what would become a crime scene.
CA renter
July 14, 2014 @
2:10 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:The Hayes [quote=FlyerInHi]The Hayes case so stinks of establishment privilege.
Plenty of people overdose and die. People do drugs together and die. That’s the risk. Hayes chose his fate.
Here, the establishment is saying we can’t countenance one of our own dying. He was rich and successful… He was too good to die. So we will make the hooker pay.
IMO, the girl should go free.[/quote]
Though we don’t know all of the details, I agree with you on this. It will probably be difficult to convict her of murder. He was no victim.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 13, 2014 @
9:29 AM
spdrun wrote:^^^
I don’t [quote=spdrun]^^^
I don’t think marriage was ever a question in the Hayes case — the woman in question was a high-priced hooker, right?[/quote]
Have you seen her picture? How was that skeeved out skank high priced?
A local (Santa Cruz) paper referred to her as “high-end”. In what alternate reality is that thing high-end?
FlyerInHi
July 13, 2014 @
9:31 AM
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
A [quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
A local (Santa Cruz) paper referred to her as “high-end”. In what alternate reality is that thing high-end?[/quote]
that I totally agree with.
spdrun
July 13, 2014 @
9:35 AM
Regarding “high end”, she Regarding “high end”, she probably looked like less of a crank-skank with some makeup on and after drug-induced beer goggles supervened.
Anyway, I suspect that’s the best she’ll ever look. People age quickly in prison.
Allan from Fallbrook
July 13, 2014 @
9:42 AM
spdrun wrote:Regarding “high [quote=spdrun]Regarding “high end”, she probably looked like less of a crank-skank with some makeup on and after drug-induced beer goggles supervened.
Anyway, I suspect that’s the best she’ll ever look. People age quickly in prison.[/quote]
If I remember correctly, you live in or near NYC, correct?
I’m not trying to cast any aspersions, but I’m guessing during your nighttime/night life travels in, say, Manhattan, you’ve seen “high-end” talent. I’m further guessing it didn’t look anything like that low-rent Trailer Trash Treasure in the picture.
spdrun
July 13, 2014 @
9:47 AM
Of course, but said talent Of course, but said talent was generally made up and dressed up. I can only imagine how it would look after a rough night at Central Booking in the Tombs(*).
(*) – the lovely nickname for the county jail in Manhattan.
July 4, 2014 @ 1:05 PM
I love that there are still
I love that there are still foreclosures/short sales to buy cheap in my area.
I consider the New York area to be home.
I love my family.
Beyond that, I can take it or leave it. But happy 4th to all those who are celebrating!
July 4, 2014 @ 1:19 PM
Wait, before you answer
Wait, before you answer *please* watch this short video:
Land of the Free?
http://youtu.be/RNcbsB1Pizg
July 4, 2014 @ 3:18 PM
I “really like America.” Not
I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.
July 4, 2014 @ 3:20 PM
flyer wrote:I “really like
[quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us would really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
+1
The irony being that those that bitch the most fail to appreciate the hard-won freedoms that allow that very bitching.
July 4, 2014 @ 6:05 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The irony being that those that bitch the most fail to appreciate the hard-won freedoms that allow that very bitching.[/quote]
Absolutely…like this free speech zone for example:
[img_assist|nid=18186|title=Free Speech Zone|desc=|link=node|align=center|width=440|height=330]
July 4, 2014 @ 6:37 PM
Love and loyalty are
Love and loyalty are distinct.
One can imagine a man who no longer loves his wife yet is unerringly faithful.
Or one who is passionately loving but cheats like a bastard.
July 4, 2014 @ 6:45 PM
Is Love of country just based
Is Love of country just based on the country being a good deal for you?
The stuff you have…The money and goods and energy?
This seems wrong yet it seems like what we have become.
July 4, 2014 @ 6:51 PM
how does one show love of
how does one show love of country excluding joining the military? doesn’t it seem liek the natural patriotic impuse is to war in this nation? what did young men do after 9/11…what was their impulse? to take up arms.
is there any other acceptable way to show love of country in this nation?
does that seem troubling somehow?
July 4, 2014 @ 7:05 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:how does
[quote=scaredyclassic]how does one show love of country excluding joining the military? doesn’t it seem liek the natural patriotic impuse is to war in this nation? what did young men do after 9/11…what was their impulse? to take up arms.
is there any other acceptable way to show love of country in this nation?
does that seem troubling somehow?[/quote]
Scaredy: It is troubling, yes, but you’ve constructed a binary argument. Military service is only one way to serve one’s country, especially given the way this country’s government has twisted “patriotism” to its own ends.
July 4, 2014 @ 7:33 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:Love and
[quote=scaredyclassic]Love and loyalty are distinct.
One can imagine a man who no longer loves his wife yet is unerringly faithful.
Or one who is passionately loving but cheats like a bastard.[/quote]
This is very interesting. Some would call that unerring faithfulness love.
But I think there has to be passion or tenderness for there to be love.
There’s also adoration, devotion, or affection.
I wonder if you can love an object or a country? I wonder.
July 4, 2014 @ 6:03 PM
flyer wrote:I “really like
[quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
I figured it wouldn’t be long until someone pulled the love it or leave it card.
That expression was a personal favorite of Joseph McCarthy.
July 4, 2014 @ 7:03 PM
paramount wrote:flyer wrote:I
[quote=paramount][quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
I figured it wouldn’t be long until someone pulled the love it or leave it card.
That expression was a personal favorite of Joseph McCarthy.[/quote]
it does seem like an odd thing to say; as if the only people who may remain are those who love their country. if you are disgusted with your country, you must leave.
would one say to a man who is fighting with his wife, who is not feeling any love for her, that he absolutely must leave her?
in reality, wherever people are in the world, in noncrisis situations, over a lifteime they build up tremdnous social capital in their place. to say they are free to leave at any time because theya re disappointed in the country is, well, wrongheaded. we are not free to leave. we are wedded to our land, to our palce, to our relatives.
this is our country, but it sin’t what we really mean when we talk of love of country. that is love of our life, …the country goes way beyond that, lives on way beyond that.
we may feel intense disgust with our nation and not want to leave because we love our lives in that place….or simply because the reality of the situation is that things will be worse if we go…
not really sure what itmeans to love one’s country.
we are all probably talking about very different things when we talk of “country”.
for instance, flyer above immediately rushes to the country’s defense because it’s been good to him…he’s got a great deal..essentially, his lvoe has been bought , or at elast bolstered, by the tremendous financial opportunities. i suppose there’s nothing really wrong with that. perhaps a nation is nothing more than a good or bad financial deal for its people. if it’s bad for you, you don’t lvoe it …if it’s good for enough people, it will byuild a critical mass of love, and it will prosper.
still, it seems an unsatsifying type of love. itseems, as in a marriage, that a love based on how things are going is not”real”…that it should be based on deeper, higher principles, on admitration for fundamental qualities that exist regardless of current material codnitions.
and to say, hey, if you are not feeling it, get the hell out…well…I don’t know…it just sounds wrong…
if I were ina theoretical crappy country,a nd i was doing great, I wouldn’t necessarily love the country. and if I were ina country I truly admired, and I was struggling, I would still love the country.
how things turned out might be relevant, but only a bit.
July 4, 2014 @ 7:10 PM
scaredyclassic. I like how
scaredyclassic. I like how you put it. Love is not that simple.
In the same vain as Flyer, I love America because everything is cheap here. I’m in Vegas and today, I went shopping at H&M at townsquare (upscale outdoor mall) Bought a winter jacket for $7.50 and a jacket hoodie for $2.00 (original for both items around $130).
I don’t think there is anywhere in the world (even in the third world) where I could buy the same quality in an upscale shopping center. Viva America, the land of the mcmansion and the stuffed walk-in closet.
July 4, 2014 @ 7:29 PM
My comments were not meant to
My comments were not meant to be just about acquiring “stuff,” or how cheap things are. For us, it’s also the quality of life we find to be better than any other place we could choose to be in the world, and we very much appreciate that and those who afforded us that opportunity.
I know these points could be argued indefinitely–and everyone has a different opinion–so, as far as my opinion goes–I’ll leave it at that.
July 4, 2014 @ 7:38 PM
flyer wrote:My comments were
[quote=flyer]My comments were not meant to be just about acquiring “stuff,” or how cheap things are. For us, it’s also the quality of life we find to be better than any other place we could choose to be in the world, and we very much appreciate that and those who afforded us that opportunity.
I know these points could be argued indefinitely–and everyone has a different opinion–so, as far as my opinion goes–I’ll leave it at that.[/quote]
other than the stuff, what do you like?
what are you proud of?
July 4, 2014 @ 7:43 PM
FlyerInHi
[quote=FlyerInHi]scaredyclassic. I like how you put it. Love is not that simple.
In the same vain as Flyer, I love America because everything is cheap here. I’m in Vegas and today, I went shopping at H&M at townsquare (upscale outdoor mall) Bought a winter jacket for $7.50 and a jacket hoodie for $2.00 (original for both items around $130).
I don’t think there is anywhere in the world (even in the third world) where I could buy the same quality in an upscale shopping center. Viva America, the land of the mcmansion and the stuffed walk-in closet.[/quote]
So, you argue against rampant mercantilism by engaging in it?
And what does that have to with love of one’s country? Do you feel you have an obligation to make the country better as a citizen through the social compact? Or, is it easier to sneeringly dismiss what’s around you while simultaneously accepting no responsibility to make it better?
July 4, 2014 @ 8:07 PM
Weren’t we told to get to a
Weren’t we told to get to a mall and keep shopping after 9/11?
July 4, 2014 @ 8:10 PM
I guess war and shopping are
I guess war and shopping are how we express our affection for and cobfidence in america.
July 4, 2014 @ 9:21 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:Weren’t
[quote=scaredyclassic]Weren’t we told to get to a mall and keep shopping after 9/11?[/quote]
Yeah, you probably shouldn’t confuse your country with your government.
“Love your country. Fear your government”.
July 4, 2014 @ 9:39 PM
But it’s the government’s
But it’s the government’s birthday. We could have loved the land and people even if it stayed a British (or Mexican) dominion for much longer, no? Aussies, Kiwis, and Canadians are proud of their countries as well.
July 4, 2014 @ 10:16 PM
Yes I love America. Even with
Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse. I do alot more travelling now then I ever have and spend alot of time in the heartland and midwest. I have seen and spent substantial amounts of time in parts of the county I never thought I would see. It really is a fantastic country.
July 5, 2014 @ 8:56 AM
SD Realtor wrote:Yes I love
[quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse. I do alot more travelling now then I ever have and spend alot of time in the heartland and midwest. I have seen and spent substantial amounts of time in parts of the county I never thought I would see. It really is a fantastic country.[/quote]
Ditto. I’m the “queen of road trips” and the USA is very beautiful. ALL OF IT has something to offer. Yes, even the Mojave and the AZ desert. My favorite places are in the Rocky Mtns of Colorado. Lake Tahoe runs a close second. NorCal rugged coast is third. And the list goes on . . .
Folks, you can’t see any of this from an airport terminal. I’m sure I’ll get to see more of it before I die.
God bless America!
July 5, 2014 @ 9:02 AM
True. Although travel by
True. Although travel by plane is useful if you can get a relatively cheap car rental (I’ve often paid $100-150/wk) at the other end with unlimited miles. Driving cross-country, there’s only so much of Kansas that you really want to see 🙂
July 5, 2014 @ 9:28 AM
The planet is a beautiful
The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?
July 5, 2014 @ 9:43 AM
I love the tribe of New
I love the tribe of New Yorkers because it’s multiple tribes living together in relatively functional co-existence…
July 5, 2014 @ 10:28 AM
Blogstar wrote:The planet is
[quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:14 AM
America’s strength
[img_assist|nid=18184|title=America’s strength|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=56|height=100]
July 5, 2014 @ 11:15 AM
Jazz. Middle aged
Jazz. Middle aged weighlifters. Reinventing yourself.
This photos about 6 months old. Maybe more.
I was looking for positive feedback…
July 5, 2014 @ 11:17 AM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1439176876?pc_redir=1404452310&robot_redir=1
This is a book I loved entirely examining what loyalty is.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:20 AM
Lawyers should be loyal to
Lawyers should be loyal to clients but usually don’t love them.
I can do many beautiful pullups.
I love jazz and I think only America could have produced it.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:34 AM
When will America be free
When will America be free again?
July 5, 2014 @ 11:44 AM
paramount wrote:When will
[quote=paramount]When will America be free again?[/quote]
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose…
We have too much to lose to be free
July 5, 2014 @ 12:08 PM
Lawyers should be loyal to
Then they’re loyal to the profession and its rules because they love it. Or at least fear disbarment.
July 5, 2014 @ 12:11 PM
spdrun wrote:
Lawyers should
[quote=spdrun]
Then they’re loyal to the profession and its rules because they love it. Or at least fear disbarment.[/quote]
Loyal from duty and obligation … not love…
July 5, 2014 @ 12:13 PM
Loyal from duty and
Duty to clients. Love of the profession. Or at least you’ve claimed to love it, since you said you’d like to be a lawyer till your last breath in the past 🙂
July 5, 2014 @ 12:51 PM
spdrun wrote:
Loyal from duty
[quote=spdrun]
Duty to clients. Love of the profession. Or at least you’ve claimed to love it, since you said you’d like to be a lawyer till your last breath in the past :)[/quote]
Well…I suppose I love it. I more love the drama, the stakes, the respondibility, the pressures… I just like the whole scene…I like having a part to play. I like interacting with lots of people in stressful situations. It makes me feel alive. Important. Engages my brain.
But lawyers or lawyering in general…not really feeling the love…Some I can’t stand.
July 5, 2014 @ 1:43 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:Jazz.
[quote=scaredyclassic]Jazz. Middle aged weighlifters. Reinventing yourself.
This photos about 6 months old. Maybe more.
I was looking for positive feedback…[/quote]
scaredy, I don’t know why you’re complaining of lack of progress. You’ve got me beat, LOL …..
You’re in great shape! I got this in my e-mail this morning. Take a look at it for vacay ideas.
http://www.nextavenue.org/article/2014-06/bicycle-vacations-boomers-latest-travel-trend?utm_source=Next+Avenue+Email+Newsletter&utm_campaign=72a25d5708-07_05_2014_Vacation&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_056a405b5a-72a25d5708-164937961
I mentioned here CA SR-128 to you before for a bike trip. Drive up to the Ukiah area where you can leave your car for a few days at one of several campgrounds and start out west from there. It’s spectacular, and, of course, you’ll be able to go where cars can’t go (I’ve only been thru there by car).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_128
This little trip will be perfect for you! You will come back to your desert oasis with a new lease on life!
After you finish this trip, I’ve got some more challenging bicycle trips in mind for you :=0
July 6, 2014 @ 2:36 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:Jazz.
[quote=scaredyclassic]Jazz. Middle aged weighlifters. Reinventing yourself.
This photos about 6 months old. Maybe more.
I was looking for positive feedback…[/quote]
I am in awe…seriously. You rock, scaredy. 🙂
Though I’m nowhere near squatting 250 pounds, you’re still an inspiration to us all. How cool to be at your physical best when you’re ~50 years old!
July 6, 2014 @ 7:31 AM
Thanks. The over all effect
Thanks. The over all effect in clothing is still pretty small. I went from about 37.5 inches around the chest to 40ish. I’m still very slight.
July 5, 2014 @ 3:21 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.[/quote]
Since we are talking about The nation state U.S.A the tribe is every institution and every single citizen taken collectively. That means rich and powerful ,the celebrities, the governments, the corporations and every flavor of hood rat and every thing that can possibly fall in between and what we all make of life together. Do you love that? No picking and choosing sub tribes we are talking USA AKA “America”. I think that is the question of the poll…but I could be wrong.
July 5, 2014 @ 4:03 PM
Blogstar wrote:Allan from
[quote=Blogstar][quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.[/quote]
Since we are talking about The nation state U.S.A the tribe is every institution and every single citizen taken collectively. That means rich and powerful ,the celebrities, the governments, the corporations and every flavor of hood rat and every thing that can possibly fall in between and what we all make of life together. Do you love that? No picking and choosing sub tribes we are talking USA AKA “America”. I think that is the question of the poll…but I could be wrong.[/quote]
I’m not Allan but I’ll answer it, Russ.
The diversity (of geography, its people and their cultures) is what makes America great, in my mind. Where I have a problem is with a subset of Americans (of EVERY persuasion) who feel that all levels of government should support them financially for life.
I don’t blame these folks for applying for and taking advantage of benefits they seemingly “qualify for.” I blame all levels of government for not closing loopholes allowing applicants to qualify for aid or lifetime payments which, upon heavier scrutiny, they shouldn’t qualify for. Here are a few:
-SSD payments for life for millions who actually DO have the ability to work;
-SSD payments to millions of minors (collected by a parent) whose parents are claiming they are “mentally disabled;”
-Huge SS Survivor benefits paid to minors (collected by a parent or guardian) of decedents who deposited little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their lifetimes;
-Huge OASDI payments to age-eligible spouses or former spouses who themselves put little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their own lifetimes, while OASDI often pays a simultaneous benefit to the “sponsoring worker” (this is the most costly gubment benefit scam due to one worker easily having multiple spouses in a lifetime, IMO);
-Huge VA lifetime monthly disability benefits to millions of former servicemen and their families whose “service-connected disability” isn’t severe enough to keep them from working; and,
-SSI paid to elderly immigrants who immigrated to America when already past traditional working age and thus never paid anything into the OASDI pot (this essentially lets their “sponsors,” [who swore under oath they would support them for life as a condition of their immigrating to the US] off the hook).
There are a lot more but these are my pet peeves. The vast majority of individuals who are able to successfully take advantage of the above gubment programs lose all incentive to take care of themselves financially for the rest of their lives as soon as they qualify for the benefit and cash their first check, IMO. Essentially, they depend upon “America” for their own sustenance. Hence, the Federal deficit only grows larger every year (partly due to COLAs in all their “sustenance” programs).
July 5, 2014 @ 4:46 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Blogstar
[quote=bearishgurl][quote=Blogstar][quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing , coincidentally part of that is sketched out as the USA AKA “America” …So Focusing on the natural beauty and even built objects as love of “America” is quite different from what Scaredy is getting at. Kind of a side step, obviously.
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Russ: Yeah, but which tribe? I’m asking you that sincerely. For example, we’re both former military, but you and I look at our respective time in service very differently.
My political views are somewhat to the right of Attila the Hun, but you and I have made frequent common cause, even though your politics are far more inclusive and accepting than mine.
To me, America’s greatest strength, her diversity in all forms, happens to be her greatest weakness as well.[/quote]
Since we are talking about The nation state U.S.A the tribe is every institution and every single citizen taken collectively. That means rich and powerful ,the celebrities, the governments, the corporations and every flavor of hood rat and every thing that can possibly fall in between and what we all make of life together. Do you love that? No picking and choosing sub tribes we are talking USA AKA “America”. I think that is the question of the poll…but I could be wrong.[/quote]
I’m not Allan but I’ll answer it, Russ.
The diversity (of geography, its people and their cultures) is what makes America great, in my mind. Where I have a problem is with a subset of Americans (of EVERY persuasion) who feel that all levels of government should support them financially for life.
I don’t blame these folks for applying for and taking advantage of benefits they seemingly “qualify for.” I blame all levels of government for not closing loopholes allowing applicants to qualify for aid or lifetime payments which, upon heavier scrutiny, they shouldn’t qualify for. Here are a few:
-SSD payments for life for millions who actually DO have the ability to work;
-SSD payments to millions of minors (collected by a parent) whose parents are claiming they are “mentally disabled;”
-Huge SS Survivor benefits paid to minors (collected by a parent or guardian) of decedents who deposited little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their lifetimes;
-Huge OASDI payments to age-eligible spouses or former spouses who themselves put little to nothing in the OASDI pot in their own lifetimes, while OASDI often pays a simultaneous benefit to the “sponsoring worker” (this is the most costly gubment benefit scam due to one worker easily having multiple spouses in a lifetime, IMO);
-Huge VA lifetime monthly disability benefits to millions of former servicemen and their families whose “service-connected disability” isn’t severe enough to keep them from working; and,
-SSI paid to elderly immigrants who immigrated to America when already past traditional working age and thus never paid anything into the OASDI pot (this essentially lets their “sponsors,” [who swore under oath they would support them for life as a condition of their immigrating to the US] off the hook).
There are a lot more but these are my pet peeves. The vast majority of individuals who are able to successfully take advantage of the above gubment programs lose all incentive to take care of themselves financially for the rest of their lives as soon as they qualify for the benefit and cash their first check, IMO. Essentially, they depend upon “America” for their own sustenance. Hence, the Federal deficit only grows larger every year (partly due to COLAs in all their “sustenance” programs).[/quote]
+1
July 5, 2014 @ 7:43 PM
I totally agree with you
I totally agree with you bearishgurl.
I have noticed over the last few years that Hollywood has been putting out a lot of movies that appeal to conspiracy theorists and schizo’s. Turns out they have just been mirroring the government’s paranoia. I wish my government wasn’t so paranoid of there own people, and by that I mean the hard working middle class that is just trying to make ends meet.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:36 AM
Blogstar wrote:The planet is
[quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing…
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Yes and as pointed out, if there was a space beauty contest Earth would be Ms Universe.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:37 AM
Imagine if you will we
Imagine if you will we stopped burning fossil fuels how much more beauty would be revealed? Cleaner air bluer skies.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:50 AM
paramount wrote:Blogstar
[quote=paramount][quote=Blogstar]The planet is a beautiful thing…
Do you love our tribe?[/quote]
Yes and as pointed out, if there was a space beauty contest Earth would be Ms Universe.[/quote]
Humanity sometimes seems like a cancer on the land. Perhaps saturn…
July 5, 2014 @ 11:40 AM
SD Realtor wrote:Yes I love
[quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse.
[/quote]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:43 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:SD Realtor
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse.
[/quote]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.[/quote]
I just asked my wife. She says she needs to know how much worse…
Please click on the thumbnail above to admire my back…
July 5, 2014 @ 11:46 AM
scaredyclassic
[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=SD Realtor]Yes I love America. Even with all of her faults and problems. It is no different then any other romance. You find someone you love them, you take them for better and for worse.
[/quote]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.[/quote]
I just asked my wife. She says she needs to know how much worse…
Please click on the thumbnail above to admire my back…[/quote]
I am 100 perc. Loyal.
July 5, 2014 @ 7:56 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
I am
[quote=scaredyclassic]
I am 100 perc. Loyal.[/quote]
That’s only possible if you love the person you’re loyal to, or if there is no one else that’s the object of your love and desires. Very well documented in novels.
In real life, Mark Sanford has given up the perfect family and possibly the Presidency of the USA for love.
July 5, 2014 @ 8:03 PM
im just the loyal type.
im just the loyal type.
July 5, 2014 @ 8:14 PM
Since you’re the expert on
Since you’re the expert on loyalty, I have a question.
What’s a loyal friend to do? Do you stand by your friend, even though that friend in at fault?
July 5, 2014 @ 10:09 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Since you’re
[quote=FlyerInHi]Since you’re the expert on loyalty, I have a question.
What’s a loyal friend to do? Do you stand by your friend, even though that friend in at fault?[/quote]
yes.
July 5, 2014 @ 10:56 PM
scaredyclassic
[quote=scaredyclassic]
yes.[/quote]
That’s what I thought. Loyalty demands it.
I have a little quandary. I’ll be loyal.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:16 PM
Towards a Police State
[img_assist|nid=18191|title=Towards a Police State|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=370|height=600]
July 5, 2014 @ 7:51 PM
scaredyclassic
[quote=scaredyclassic]
[quote=FlyerInHi]
Can you really take a spouse/companion for worse? I think there are limits to what people can take before love and loyalty goes away.[/quote]
I just asked my wife. She says she needs to know how much worse…
Please click on the thumbnail above to admire my back…[/quote]
I love your wife. She’s funny.
I’m sure she has no reason to complain. It gets better.
July 4, 2014 @ 10:22 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=scaredyclassic]Weren’t we told to get to a mall and keep shopping after 9/11?[/quote]
Yeah, you probably shouldn’t confuse your country with your government.
“Love your country. Fear your government”.[/quote]
It’s the government that defines treason. And finds u guilty.
Maybe a country is nothing more than a defined border with power to get spoils for its people to divvy up. Our country may not be equal to our govt but there’s some relationship.
What is “the country”…
July 4, 2014 @ 10:45 PM
Love your posts, scaredy, as
Love your posts, scaredy, as always. You’ve said it all.
July 4, 2014 @ 11:31 PM
We seem to have lost the
We seem to have lost the thread of the story of why we are great…
Certainly it’s not immigration, land of ipportunity, beacon of freedom.
Murrieta is ready to overturn busses with detainees.
Do we even really want freedom?
Stable markets, money… that’s what we want.
1st am. Poses no threat to the gov. If it did they’d probably find a way to shut you up fast.
July 4, 2014 @ 11:32 PM
I prefer loyalty to love.
I prefer loyalty to love.
July 4, 2014 @ 11:34 PM
I prefer loyalty to
Doesn’t loyalty imply love? Otherwise, it’s just fear.
July 5, 2014 @ 3:04 AM
spdrun wrote:
I prefer
[quote=spdrun]
Doesn’t loyalty imply love? Otherwise, it’s just fear.[/quote]
Love, at least how most people define it, is fickle. Loyalty is not.
Love says more about the desirability of the person or thing being loved. Chances are, they will only be “loved” for as long as they are desirable in some way. Loyalty says more about the character of the lover; it shows an intrinsic sense of duty, obligation, and commitment.
If you could choose only one, would you rather have a spouse who “loves” you, but is disloyal; or would you rather have a spouse who doesn’t “love” you in the conventional way, but is very loyal? Think about the fact that marriage is the most important business partnership you will ever enter into, and that your spouse’s actions will greatly affect the well-being of you and your children for the rest of your lives. Love or loyalty?
July 5, 2014 @ 1:43 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:
1st am.
[quote=scaredyclassic]
1st am. Poses no threat to the gov. If it did they’d probably find a way to shut you up fast.[/quote]
See all the activity dedicated to shutting down the Occupy Wall Street movement, or the actions taken to stomp out “domestic terrorism,” for example.
July 5, 2014 @ 6:26 AM
Love or even like is very
Love or even like is very funny.
When we like something, we generally take offense to other people not liking it. We need confirmation we made a good choice.
Take shopping for example. If we go shopping with friends, we ask each other questions as to what we should buy… At the point we want the input. But once we buy something and wear it, we don’t want to hear it sucks.
Country or even family is not really a choice though. Kids born in terrible families still love them. Maybe we love because we’re expected to love.
July 5, 2014 @ 7:20 AM
Of course country is a
Of course country is a choice. Put it this way: if there were to be a draft, I’d be somewhere in Central America right now.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:48 AM
spdrun wrote: Put it this
[quote=spdrun] Put it this way: if there were to be a draft, I’d be somewhere in Central America right now.[/quote]
I don’t think so.
You’d develop some kind of medication condition.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:51 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:spdrun wrote:
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=spdrun] Put it this way: if there were to be a draft, I’d be somewhere in Central America right now.[/quote]
I don’t think so.
You’d develop some kind of medication condition.[/quote]
Conscientious objector?
Cut off some toes?
July 5, 2014 @ 11:52 AM
As a country though it does
As a country though it does feel like America is absolutely full of shit. Just a lying sack of phoney baloney.
July 5, 2014 @ 12:03 PM
America: Savage, dumb,
America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).
July 5, 2014 @ 1:56 PM
paramount wrote:America:
[quote=paramount]America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).[/quote]Paramount, I travel all the way thru Utah at least twice per year (out of necessity) and will tell you that, although beautiful in parts, a non-resident (or even a non-resident of a particular area), practically speaking, really can’t get any kind of justice there. Many parts of Utah harken back to the wild west.
Just be thankful that you reside in CA where everything is spelled out for everyone (in triplicate … ad nauseaum, resident or not) and it doesn’t have “different rules” depending on who you are and where you reside.
July 5, 2014 @ 2:21 PM
bearishgurl wrote:paramount
[quote=bearishgurl][quote=paramount]America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).[/quote]Paramount, I travel all the way thru Utah at least twice per year (out of necessity) and will tell you that, although beautiful in parts, a non-resident (or even a non-resident of a particular area), practically speaking, really can’t get any kind of justice there. Many parts of Utah harken back to the wild west.
Just be thankful that you reside in CA where everything is spelled out for everyone (in triplicate … ad nauseaum, resident or not) and it doesn’t have “different rules” depending on who you are and where you reside.[/quote]
BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules. While I may be a diehard conservative, I’ll profess to loving those socialist mofos over at the Labor Board, especially when it came to them helping me kick a former employer’s ass. It’s like that old joke about being a Republican and then you lose your job.
I think the point that Scaredy might be missing was that things in America were easier before the proliferation of all the various and sundry groups, each seeking a piece of the pie. Politicians need more and more money to get elected, which requires more and more promises, few of which can actually be met. Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.
July 5, 2014 @ 2:32 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules …
[snip]
… Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.[/quote]
CA residents complain a LOT (myself incl) about lack of gubment staffing at all levels (due to “state budget cuts”). HOWEVER, many jurisdictions in UT take “lack of staffing” to a whole new level and it has nothing to due with “lack of revenue.” It’s by design … and that’s the way the state’s “golden folk” who “make the rules” like it :=0
Traveler beware . . .
July 5, 2014 @ 2:39 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Allan from
[quote=bearishgurl][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules …
[snip]
… Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.[/quote]
CA residents complain a LOT (myself incl) about lack of gubment staffing at all levels (due to “state budget cuts”). HOWEVER, many jurisdictions in UT take “lack of staffing” to a whole new level and it has nothing to due with “lack of revenue.” It’s by design … and that’s the way the state’s “golden folk” who “make the rules” like it :=0
Traveler beware . . .[/quote]
BG: Yup, count me amongst the complainers. I’ll bang on and on about the need for smaller government, until I’m waiting at the DMV.
Americans are spoiled, by and large, and hypocrites of the first order, and I’m right in the mix. We’ve been promised a never-ending stream of benefits and services in what appears to be a low-cost scheme. The truth is, we want all of the goodies, but we don’t want to really talk about what things honestly cost, or what eventually happens when the bill comes due.
July 5, 2014 @ 2:58 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=bearishgurl][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: You make a great point about California and not having different rules …
[snip]
… Thus, the Golden Rule: “Those with the gold make the rules”.[/quote]
CA residents complain a LOT (myself incl) about lack of gubment staffing at all levels (due to “state budget cuts”). HOWEVER, many jurisdictions in UT take “lack of staffing” to a whole new level and it has nothing to due with “lack of revenue.” It’s by design … and that’s the way the state’s “golden folk” who “make the rules” like it :=0
Traveler beware . . .[/quote]
BG: Yup, count me amongst the complainers. I’ll bang on and on about the need for smaller government, until I’m waiting at the DMV.
Americans are spoiled, by and large, and hypocrites of the first order, and I’m right in the mix. We’ve been promised a never-ending stream of benefits and services in what appears to be a low-cost scheme. The truth is, we want all of the goodies, but we don’t want to really talk about what things honestly cost, or what eventually happens when the bill comes due.[/quote]
If you want small government, move to rural UT. In many cases, there are only a handful of people “minding the store” (not all FT). The “store” could consist of a 200+ mile radius. When several of that “handful” are on vacation and then who is left calls in sick, there is no one. And that’s okay with the “golden folk.” If you need a UT lawyer (in order to avail yourself of the “different rules” afforded the locals), you’re going to have to pay him/her their full hourly fee to drive to that area to appear for you (assuming he/she can get a timely hearing with a judge or commissioner actually present and seated). The drive could easily be several hrs each way. If they can’t get a timely hearing for you, you’re SOL. And that time frame (for travelers) is exceedingly short.
The State of UT is FLUSH with revenue … absolutely FLUSH! But the bulk of it did NOT come from their own taxpayers. UT’s “Golden Folk” know exactly where their fair (but mostly desolate) state is located and they capitalize on it to the max.
And, no, I haven’t gotten busted there bringing in MJ from CO and don’t intend to. But as of this year, these busts are undoubtedly another one of UT’s most reliable “revenue sources.”
Let’s just leave it at that.
July 5, 2014 @ 3:05 PM
BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll
BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll confess something. I stand in slack-jawed awe at the Mormon Church and their ability to generate stunning amounts of money.
July 5, 2014 @ 3:12 PM
Yeah, but is a church
Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper? At least the proposed State of Deseret never happened.
San Diego would have been under Mormon law if it did. Would make an interesting alternative history…
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/images/deseret_state_2.jpg
July 5, 2014 @ 3:26 PM
spdrun wrote:Yeah, but is a
[quote=spdrun]Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper? At least the proposed State of Deseret never happened.
San Diego would have been under Mormon law if it did. Would make an interesting alternative history…
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/images/deseret_state_2.jpg%5B/quote%5D
I have to laugh at that ancient map of UT, spdrun. Thanks for sharing.
Yup, it just so happens that SoCal, NV, AZ and the western slope of CO are all full of Mormons to this day!
July 5, 2014 @ 6:39 PM
bearishgurl wrote:spdrun
[quote=bearishgurl][quote=spdrun]Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper? At least the proposed State of Deseret never happened.
San Diego would have been under Mormon law if it did. Would make an interesting alternative history…
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/images/deseret_state_2.jpg%5B/quote%5D
I have to laugh at that ancient map of UT, spdrun. Thanks for sharing.
Yup, it just so happens that SoCal, NV, AZ and the western slope of CO are all full of Mormons to this day![/quote]
i really really dig mormon history. AMERICAN MASSACRE is extremly interesting. mormons tell us a lot about who we are.
plus, just the balls on Jospeh Smith are an inspiration….
i love Mormons.
July 5, 2014 @ 4:43 PM
spdrun wrote:Yeah, but is a
[quote=spdrun]Yeah, but is a church exercising strong control over a state right or proper?[/quote]
No.
July 5, 2014 @ 3:17 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll confess something. I stand in slack-jawed awe at the Mormon Church and their ability to generate stunning amounts of money.[/quote]As only a semi-practicing Catholic who has substantial personal experience with SoCal Mormons, it is my humble opinion that the sole reason they are able to generate so much money is because “Mormonism” is actually a “business” (with cult-like “business practices”).
No offense is intended here to any Piggs who are practicing Mormons.
July 5, 2014 @ 4:42 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Allan from
[quote=bearishgurl][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]BG: Well, as a Catholic, I’ll confess something. I stand in slack-jawed awe at the Mormon Church and their ability to generate stunning amounts of money.[/quote]As only a semi-practicing Catholic who has substantial personal experience with SoCal Mormons, it is my humble opinion that the sole reason they are able to generate so much money is because “Mormonism” is actually a “business” (with cult-like “business practices”).
No offense is intended here to any Piggs who are practicing Mormons.[/quote]
BG: I’m schizophrenic relative to my Catholicism. I’m alternately proud and mortified. Being educated by both Franciscans and Jesuits, I’ve seen the Mother Church as both caring and rapacious. But I also believe that the church has largely tried to do good work and runs thousands of schools and hospitals throughout the world. With the Mormon Church, it seems to be a business first and a church second. Yeah, I know all about glass houses and rock chucking, and these are just my impressions.
July 6, 2014 @ 6:52 PM
paramount wrote:America:
[quote=paramount]America: Savage, dumb, opulent and decadent all at once. (except for Utah).[/quote]
Funny. Every time my wife goes to Utah on business, she has her cc number stolen. What a fine upstanding state that is.
July 6, 2014 @ 11:51 PM
If you want a vision of the
If you want a vision of the future America, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever. – George Orwell
July 5, 2014 @ 12:14 PM
I don’t think so.
You’d
I think (short of a WW-II style war of survival which I understand and might even sign up to fight in), I’d be so frustrated with the US that I’d leave. Maybe I do love the US more than I give credit for which is why I get so damn irate when the gov’t engages in stupid.
July 5, 2014 @ 1:28 PM
spdrun wrote:
I don’t think
[quote=spdrun]
I think (short of a WW-II style war of survival which I understand and might even sign up to fight in), I’d be so frustrated with the US that I’d leave. Maybe I do love the US more than I give credit for which is why I get so damn irate when the gov’t engages in stupid.[/quote]
But even WWII becomes somewhat suspect, when you view America’s participation and how the war was prosecuted to advance our own agenda and aims (see Bretton Woods as an example).
You once referred to Eisenhower’s warning about the rise of the Military Industrial Complex, but left out the part where Eisenhower presided over one of the largest peacetime military expansions in American history, including the Interstate Highway program, which was largely military in nature.
My point is that you can argue about the government’s stupidity, but nearly all government actions are in support of advancing American interests and have been since the beginning of this great republic.
July 4, 2014 @ 11:33 PM
Red white and blue, gaze in
Red white and blue, gaze in your looking glass
You’re not a child anymore
Red, white, and blue, the future is all but past
So lift up your heart, make a new start
And lead us away from here
America….America…America..America..
America….America…America..America..
America….America…America..America..
July 5, 2014 @ 12:07 AM
paramount wrote:Red white and
[quote=paramount]Red white and blue, gaze in your looking glass
You’re not a child anymore
Red, white, and blue, the future is all but past
So lift up your heart, make a new start
And lead us away from here
America….America…America..America..
America….America…America..America..
America….America…America..America..[/quote]
Styx? Really?
Geez, why not “Come Sail Away”? I always loved that song.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:36 AM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
So, you argue against rampant mercantilism by engaging in it?
[/quote]
I think by mercantilism you meant the culture of consumption. Actually, I don’t engage in rampant consumption. But I fully understand that our consumer culture is what creates economies of scale that allow me and other people who contribute a few dollars here and there to enjoy the luxurious real estate “palaces” dedicated to consumption.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
And what does that have to with love of one’s country?
[/quote]
I’m getting a good deal, a good “quality of life.” American consumer society provides me with tremendous opportunities.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Do you feel you have an obligation to make the country better as a citizen through the social compact? [/quote]
Of course, I feel an obligation to make it better. I think I do my fair share.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Or, is it easier to sneeringly dismiss what’s around you while simultaneously accepting no responsibility to make it better?[/quote]
I actually don’t dismiss what’s around me. I view with open eyes some of the contradictions in our society. For example consumer culture leads to obesity, but obesity is better than want and hunger. I think that we, as a country, suffer less material want than any other sizeable country.
BTW, you’ve commented on other people’s comments. But you didn’t answer the question.
July 5, 2014 @ 11:43 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
So, you argue against rampant mercantilism by engaging in it?
[/quote]
I think by mercantilism you meant the culture of consumption. Actually, I don’t engage in rampant consumption. But I fully understand that our consumer culture is what creates economies of scale that allow me and other people who contribute a few dollars here and there to enjoy the luxurious real estate “palaces” dedicated to consumption.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
And what does that have to with love of one’s country?
[/quote]
I’m getting a good deal, a good “quality of life.” American consumer society provides me with tremendous opportunities.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Do you feel you have an obligation to make the country better as a citizen through the social compact? [/quote]
Of course, I feel an obligation to make it better. I think I do my fair share.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Or, is it easier to sneeringly dismiss what’s around you while simultaneously accepting no responsibility to make it better?[/quote]
I actually don’t dismiss what’s around me. I view with open eyes some of the contradictions in our society. For example consumer culture leads to obesity, but obesity is better than want and hunger. I think that we, as a country, suffer less material want than any other sizeable country.
BTW, you’ve commented on other people’s comments. But you didn’t answer the question.[/quote]
Which question? You’ve been kind enough to answer mine, I’d be happy to answer yours.
July 5, 2014 @ 7:47 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Which question? You'[/quote]
The OP’s question. And why.
July 6, 2014 @ 8:55 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Which question? You'[/quote]
The OP’s question. And why.[/quote]
Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.
July 6, 2014 @ 10:56 AM
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.[/quote]
That’s a good answer… but that kind of love seems unsatisfying.
It implies experience and comparison to the most awesome. You pick the very best, the shinning city on the hill, to love.
Is there room for the small village at the bottom of the valley?
I have neighbors who are Serbians, now naturalized Americans. Their sons were born here but they only speak Serbian because they love Serbia and have very strong attachment to the culture. The grandmother just came over to raise the kids while the parents go out to earn a pretty good living. They save up vacation and go back to Serbia every chance they get. They are not interested in traveling anywhere else.
I don’t think that, as Americans, they love America less then we do. But they also love Serbia maybe more although it’s a poor, war town country with plenty of governance problems.
July 6, 2014 @ 11:09 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.[/quote]
That’s a good answer… but that kind of love seems unsatisfying.
It implies experience and comparison to the most awesome. You pick the very best, the shinning city on the hill, to love.
Is there room for the small village at the bottom of the valley?
I have neighbors who are Serbians, now naturalized Americans. Their sons were born here but they only speak Serbian because they love Serbia and have very strong attachment to the culture. The grandmother just came over to raise the kids while the parents go out to earn a pretty good living. They save up vacation and go back to Serbia every chance they get. They are not interested in traveling anywhere else.
I don’t think that, as Americans, they love America less then we do. But they also love Serbia maybe more although it’s a poor, war town country with plenty of governance problems.[/quote]
I’m first-generation American on my dad’s side. My grandma, who was a teacher at a small college, left Germany in 1935 after witnessing her first book burning. She came to the US with no money, no English and two small kids in tow (my grandfather opted to remain there). She settled in Chicago and got to work. By the time she retired, she was teaching lit at Northwestern.
For me, this is the American Dream. Do I believe it’s only possible here? Nope. But I think America has that special something that brings people here in droves. Watch a citizenship ceremony sometime. Man, if that doesn’t choke you up a little, I don’t know what will.
In spite of all the bullshit, the promise of America still remains.
July 6, 2014 @ 11:20 AM
Police State
[img_assist|nid=18193|title=Police State|desc=|link=node|align=center|width=466|height=363]
July 6, 2014 @ 11:32 AM
Constitution Destroyed
[img_assist|nid=18194|title=Constitution Destroyed|desc=|link=node|align=center|width=465|height=273]
July 6, 2014 @ 12:32 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Yes, I love my country. In all her fucked up glory. Why? Because in spite of our blood soaked legacy and all of our many missteps, America is still the “Shining City on the Hill”.
I’ve been all over the world and I’ve seen some places that come close, like Australia, but, to me, there’s still nothing like the USA.[/quote]
That’s a good answer… but that kind of love seems unsatisfying.
It implies experience and comparison to the most awesome. You pick the very best, the shinning city on the hill, to love.
Is there room for the small village at the bottom of the valley?
I have neighbors who are Serbians, now naturalized Americans. Their sons were born here but they only speak Serbian because they love Serbia and have very strong attachment to the culture. The grandmother just came over to raise the kids while the parents go out to earn a pretty good living. They save up vacation and go back to Serbia every chance they get. They are not interested in traveling anywhere else.
I don’t think that, as Americans, they love America less then we do. But they also love Serbia maybe more although it’s a poor, war town country with plenty of governance problems.[/quote]
I’m first-generation American on my dad’s side. My grandma, who was a teacher at a small college, left Germany in 1935 after witnessing her first book burning. She came to the US with no money, no English and two small kids in tow (my grandfather opted to remain there). She settled in Chicago and got to work. By the time she retired, she was teaching lit at Northwestern.
For me, this is the American Dream. Do I believe it’s only possible here? Nope. But I think America has that special something that brings people here in droves. Watch a citizenship ceremony sometime. Man, if that doesn’t choke you up a little, I don’t know what will.
In spite of all the bullshit, the promise of America still remains.[/quote]
This country has been unbelievably good to my people. My tiny midget great grandpa carried mattresses up and down stairs in some weird nyc mattress factory. Then his son was a lawyer and his sons more successful. Culminating in me I guess. Well OK there’s been some backsliding but that’s to be expected…
July 6, 2014 @ 12:46 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
This
[quote=scaredyclassic]
This country has been unbelievably good to my people. My tiny midget great grandpa carried mattresses up and down stairs in some weird nyc mattress factory. Then his son was a lawyer and his sons more successful. Culminating in me I guess. Well OK there’s been some backsliding but that’s to be expected…[/quote]
Yup. My dad was an aeronautical engineer with a Master’s degree, and my uncle was an investment banker with an MBA from Stanford. Both put themselves through school on the GI Bill, after fighting in the Pacific War and the Korean War. Not a lot of sympathy in our family for those who weren’t willing to work hard and strive.
I learned to bust my ass at a young age and I have worked for everything I have. Is this the only way to do things? Nope. But it’s served me well.
July 7, 2014 @ 1:37 AM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=scaredyclassic]
This country has been unbelievably good to my people. My tiny midget great grandpa carried mattresses up and down stairs in some weird nyc mattress factory. Then his son was a lawyer and his sons more successful. Culminating in me I guess. Well OK there’s been some backsliding but that’s to be expected…[/quote]
Yup. My dad was an aeronautical engineer with a Master’s degree, and my uncle was an investment banker with an MBA from Stanford. Both put themselves through school on the GI Bill, after fighting in the Pacific War and the Korean War. Not a lot of sympathy in our family for those who weren’t willing to work hard and strive.
I learned to bust my ass at a young age and I have worked for everything I have. Is this the only way to do things? Nope. But it’s served me well.[/quote]
Much like your parents, my parents had the same sort of trajectory. One was an immigrant with no money, the other came from a poor chicken farm. No connections, no money from parents, just hard work and determination that enabled them to achieve a decidedly uppper-middle class lifestyle.
Do you think this is still achievable on the same level today? I don’t, and in their waning years, my parents also thought we had largely lost the ability of most children to do better than their parents’ generation. Too much corruption, too much of a misallocation of resources, too much concentration of wealth and power. I just don’t think it’s the same today as it was ~40+ years ago.
Interesting article about this:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/meet-the-new-middle-class-who-they-are-what-they-want-and-what-they-fear/275307/
July 7, 2014 @ 3:51 PM
CA renter wrote:
Do you
[quote=CA renter]
Do you think this is still achievable on the same level today? I don’t, and in their waning years, my parents also thought we had largely lost the ability of most children to do better than their parents’ generation. Too much corruption, too much of a misallocation of resources, too much concentration of wealth and power. I just don’t think it’s the same today as it was ~40+ years ago.
[/quote]
CAR: No, I don’t believe it’s possible in this day and age. For example, I walked into McDonald’s with a work permit and got the job on the spot. Nowadays, I’m surprised when I see a teenager working at McDonald’s.
I’d routinely work two to three jobs in the summer (I was a grubby little plutocrat from a young age), and finding work was generally a snap. It’s not like that anymore.
Plus, as terrible as this is to say, I was an upper-middle class white kid in private school and a lot of doors opened, or were open, as a result. I still enjoy a lot of advantages, whether tied to upbringing and education, or being former military, and I capitalize on all of them.
It’s a lot different if you’re having to fight uphill due to ethnicity, lack of intact family, lack of resources, subpar education, etc.
This is one of those taboo subjects, but there is an undiscussed war on the poor and the underclass in this country, and it starts with the tax rolls (or lack thereof) and how kids are educated, or not.
If you don’t have that foundation, you’re pretty well fucked. Sorry, got off on a little bit of a rant there.
July 7, 2014 @ 6:26 PM
Allan, I think you and I are
Allan, I think you and I are about the same age and come from similar circumstances, and our work/life experiences are similar (Brian’s, too).
I worry about the world that our kids are going to be dealing with. It’s just not the same, IMO.
Totally agree with you about the war on the poor/underclass, though those kids might be better off going forward than the kids of privilege. If you check out the article I’ve linked above, you’ll see that the poor people still feel as though there are better opportunities, and the kids *are* doing better than their (usually immigrant) parents’ generation.
Of course, it’s easier to move up when your at the very bottom than it is to stay at the top when you’re at/near the pinnacle. I’d say that many of us were born in a time and place that put us near the pinnacle, globally speaking. Not as easy to hold onto that position, which might be why we see so much middle-class angst in the US.
July 7, 2014 @ 7:44 PM
im not that worried about my
im not that worried about my kids. i don’t expect much. i think they’ll have a good time.
July 7, 2014 @ 8:37 PM
IMO, and, again, I’ll say–it
IMO, and, again, I’ll say–it is just my opinion–that life is about whether you achieve your dreams or not–whatever they may be. For me, and I think for most of my peers, that was the essence of life. We didn’t really think about whether the dreams we had were easy or difficult–we just went after
them–because we really wanted to.
I just don’t see that same intensity in some of the young people today. I don’t know if it’s because they don’t care about anything enough or, more likely, they don’t want to try, because they know they won’t be able to achieve their goals.
When referring to their parents, in relation to their future plans in life, the kids of some of our friends have said to us, “Why should we work when they do?” Seriously sad to have no dreams at all.
July 7, 2014 @ 9:27 PM
Life is definitely not about
Life is definitely not about whether you achieve your dreams.
It’s more of a long strange trip where you never get anywhere. Cause you’re always there.
Maybe kids wised up. I don’t know man. Seems too resultsy based. Like if you fail to achieve your dreams you wasted your life.
Chasing dreams is bound statistically to end in failure at least in terms of pro sports.
I see life as more of a daily effort to be a good honest dude, to have a laugh, fulfill some duties, eat and drink a happy meal together. That’s life.
July 7, 2014 @ 11:04 PM
As always, good to hear your
As always, good to hear your opinion, scaredy. I agree dreams are not ALL life is about. Of course there are many other things as you mentioned, and more–but, at least for me, and many people I know, achieving our dreams was and is a very important part of our lives.
Could be because we were raised by super over-achievers.
We’ve all enjoyed our lives–so it seems to have worked out so far–but to each his or her own.
July 8, 2014 @ 3:06 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
Chasing
[quote=scaredyclassic]
Chasing dreams is bound statistically to end in failure at least in terms of pro sports.
[/quote]
I think that kids did wise up. I noticed that the younger generation is happier. Happy, happy enjoying each other’s company as long as they have enough money. Older people are more worried in a negative way. Like you said earlier, freedom is having nothing to lose. We have too much to lose.
Plus if you judge yourself in comparison to others, there will always be someone richer, better looking, more accomplished than you. It’s a tough life.
July 8, 2014 @ 4:23 PM
Although many might, we’ve
Although many might, we’ve never felt setting goals and achieving them was a competitive thing, and have never compared ourselves to others who might be wealthier, better looking, etc., etc. We’ve also never encouraged our kids to think about life that way either.
For us, it’s always been about doing what we love, achieving our personal best, and seeing where that takes us. I can only speak from our experiences, and for the most part, it’s been a happy and fulfilling life for all of us.
I hope young people today, whatever they do, can support themselves, and also find that same sense of fulfillment.
July 8, 2014 @ 4:37 PM
I can’t imagine being made
I can’t imagine being made happy by achieving a particular goal nowadays.
For instance I want to be strong. But I wouldn’t be happy if I were strong. I like getting there. But once you’re there…what? Where are you?
I’d like to have a million in the bank but I’m pretty darn sure if I did tomorrow I wouldn’t be a tiny bit happier.
All the little microgoals are a blur the macro goals are fleeting as soon as they are achieved. Everything returning to dust.
July 8, 2014 @ 11:45 PM
Could it be that US destiny
Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?
Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.
July 9, 2014 @ 1:59 AM
paramount wrote:Could it be
[quote=paramount]Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?[/quote]
You’re joking, right?
[quote=paramount]Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.[/quote]
Gosh, you sound like a socialist here! 😉
July 9, 2014 @ 7:20 AM
is the main purpose of the
is the main purpose of the USA that it’s a place people move to make a buck?
isn’t that why most people have picked up and come over here the last 100 years? if things were good where they were, moneywise, they’d stay put, right?
July 9, 2014 @ 7:21 AM
CA renter wrote:paramount
[quote=CA renter][quote=paramount]Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?[/quote]
You’re joking, right?
[quote=paramount]Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.[/quote]
Gosh, you sound like a socialist here! ;)[/quote]
john wayne, ronald reagan, clint eastwood; hasn’t america always been about pretending the power of the individual to overcome and win is in our cards?
July 9, 2014 @ 5:42 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
john
[quote=scaredyclassic]
john wayne, ronald reagan, clint eastwood; hasn’t america always been about pretending the power of the individual to overcome and win is in our cards?[/quote]
Pretty much. I just hate the fact that so many Americans think that we’re superior to others and that we have the right, duty, and obligation to force everyone else to do what we command of them. And we always seem to do this in the name of “freedom and democracy.” It’s pretty sick.
July 9, 2014 @ 7:14 PM
CA renter
[quote=CA renter][quote=scaredyclassic]
john wayne, ronald reagan, clint eastwood; hasn’t america always been about pretending the power of the individual to overcome and win is in our cards?[/quote]
Pretty much. I just hate the fact that so many Americans think that we’re superior to others and that we have the right, duty, and obligation to force everyone else to do what we command of them. And we always seem to do this in the name of “freedom and democracy.” It’s pretty sick.[/quote]
i think the story we tell ourselves and the world is we have spent so much time money and energy ever since wwii ensuring that the world is and will be safe that the world owes us big time. BIG TIME….we shoulder the costs and the danger of making the world a safe place..
of course, that story might be bullshit.
the world definitely thinks it is a load of bullshit, nowadays anyway, as polling indicates that the world thinks the greatest danger to world peace is the USA.
http://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-biggest-threat-world-peace-america-1525008
that fact alone might give one pause in accepting the narrative that we make the world safe. it might be true, it might have been true,but there’s no way to really test it or know it. maybe we were making the world way more dangerous. how can we know without alternative worlds playing out? My sense is that whatever safety we provided is history…and that we are now more dangerous than anyone.
it is difficult to love your psychotic, narcissistic, enraged Uncle Sam. but, he’s family…
July 9, 2014 @ 7:23 PM
in reality though, does it
in reality though, does it really matter if you like the country youre living in? it’s all kind of theoretical. your day to day life is going to be similar anywhere you go. you’ll wake up. you’ll maybe have some coffee. You’ll pee.
if you’re working you’ll stumble off to work. probably you’ll get there half awake, but there’s ll be some stuff going on. you’ll doa few things, maybe geta little stressed out, maybe not. Ypu’l eat lunch. You’ll poop if things are going well. Later, you’ll have a drink, a bit of dinner, you’ll talk about the day, its good things, its miseries, a funny incident, maybe read a book, watch tv, make love to your wife.
what difference does it make what country you’re in, as long as some basic safety/material needs are met?
July 9, 2014 @ 7:47 PM
I kinda love the USA though.
I kinda love the USA though. It seems wacked out and I find its craziness fascinating
July 9, 2014 @ 8:59 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:I kinda
[quote=scaredyclassic]I kinda love the USA though. It seems wacked out and I find its craziness fascinating[/quote]
Yeah. But I’ve spent some time reading old newspapers – from the late 1800s and early 1900s.
And you know what? This country has always been whacked out. I suspect all countries are.
But over time, I think good is prevailing here…and things are getting better. If you step back and look at the big big picture and don’t get caught up in the minutiae.
That’s why it’s spooky to watch countries like Iraq where good appears to be on the ropes at the moment.
July 9, 2014 @ 10:17 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:
what
[quote=scaredyclassic]
what difference does it make what country you’re in, as long as some basic safety/material needs are met?[/quote]
I have been told: Man does not live on bread and water alone.
July 10, 2014 @ 7:42 AM
paramount
[quote=paramount][quote=scaredyclassic]
what difference does it make what country you’re in, as long as some basic safety/material needs are met?[/quote]
I have been told: Man does not live on bread and water alone.[/quote]
true. man requires the occasional intoxicant.
the bible may not mention abortion, but it sure does talk about wine a lot…
July 9, 2014 @ 8:37 AM
CA renter wrote:paramount
[quote=CA renter][quote=paramount]Could it be that US destiny was to show the world a path to liberty and freedom?[/quote]
You’re joking, right?
[quote=paramount]Meanwhile most comments here focus on only themselves.
I’m a hard worker, im strong, I’m rich, I’m this, I’m that…there was supposed to be something much larger at work here people.[/quote]
Gosh, you sound like a socialist here! ;)[/quote]
He doesn’t sound like a socialist, I was thinking the same thing. What people are really saying is : I love my circumstances. I love the privileged life I lead and national features that were here before Christopher Columbus sailed. When pushed they add I hate free loaders. I am sure if we were conquered my circumstances would worsen but loving the U.S.A for holding up my privileged life that doesn’t say much in depth about the U.S.A. or my own values.
July 9, 2014 @ 8:48 AM
We are all freeloaders with
We are all freeloaders with our subsidized farms and gas and our free rides on the military established to control through violence access and favor in Markets and money and resources in other countries. It’s not made in America because it’s easier to squeeze out of someone else. So what freedom are we talking about?
July 9, 2014 @ 9:36 AM
I’m proud to be an
I’m proud to be an American
Where at least I know I’m free
That song lyric always sounded so sad…like he gas nothing , except a vague undefined notion that he has freedom…but in what way?
July 9, 2014 @ 5:37 PM
Blogstar wrote:
He doesn’t
[quote=Blogstar]
He doesn’t sound like a socialist, I was thinking the same thing. What people are really saying is : I love my circumstances. I love the privileged life I lead and national features that were here before Christopher Columbus sailed. When pushed they add I hate free loaders. I am sure if we were conquered my circumstances would worsen but loving the U.S.A for holding up my privileged life that doesn’t say much in depth about the U.S.A. or my own values.[/quote]
When he said “something much larger at work,” I assumed he was thinking about building a better society, as opposed to focusing only on the individual. That’s why it sounded socialistic to me.
July 9, 2014 @ 6:00 PM
CA renter wrote:Blogstar
[quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar]
He doesn’t sound like a socialist, I was thinking the same thing. What people are really saying is : I love my circumstances. I love the privileged life I lead and national features that were here before Christopher Columbus sailed. When pushed they add I hate free loaders. I am sure if we were conquered my circumstances would worsen but loving the U.S.A for holding up my privileged life that doesn’t say much in depth about the U.S.A. or my own values.[/quote]
When he said “something much larger at work,” I assumed he was thinking about building a better society, as opposed to focusing only on the individual. That’s why it sounded socialistic to me.[/quote]
Maybe I got him wrong on his meaning too. Still, I understand being satisfied as an American but not a reason to thing the country is really Lovable,, like pledge of allegiance lovable.
July 9, 2014 @ 6:01 PM
Agreed.
Agreed.
July 9, 2014 @ 10:26 PM
Blogstar wrote:
Maybe I got
[quote=Blogstar]
Maybe I got him wrong on his meaning too. Still, I understand being satisfied as an American but not a reason to thing the country is really Lovable,, like pledge of allegiance lovable.[/quote]
No, I’m not a socialist, it was just a moment of weakness while listening to: Neil Diamond, America
I’m a small govt libertarian who’s tired of losing my freedoms and my hard earned money to Washington and Sacramento.
July 9, 2014 @ 11:22 PM
You’re losing your money to
You’re losing your money to the corporatists and financial elite, paramount, not to Washington and Sacramento (though, all too often, the govt is the puppet of the corporatists and financial elite).
July 10, 2014 @ 7:30 AM
paramount wrote:Blogstar
[quote=paramount][quote=Blogstar]
Maybe I got him wrong on his meaning too. Still, I understand being satisfied as an American but not a reason to thing the country is really Lovable,, like pledge of allegiance lovable.[/quote]
No, I’m not a socialist, it was just a moment of weakness while listening to: Neil Diamond, America
I’m a small govt libertarian who’s tired of losing my freedoms and my hard earned money to Washington and Sacramento.[/quote]
i understand. neil diamond is pretty intense. i was listening to BREAD in my car, playing, that I would give everything i own, give up my lfie my heart my home just to have you back again song and i felt kinda romantic.
libertarianism is pretty cool. I always consider people who want all drugs legalized allies int he fight for freedom, much mroe so than any military action. teh single greatest way to bring down gov expenditures i think might be to legalize drugs. it costs so much money on so many levels.
July 7, 2014 @ 11:04 PM
flyer wrote:
I just don’t see
[quote=flyer]
I just don’t see that same intensity in some of the young people today. I don’t know if it’s because they don’t care about anything enough or, more likely, they don’t want to try, because they know they won’t be able to achieve their goals.
When referring to their parents, in relation to their future plans in life, the kids of some of our friends have said to us, “Why should we work when they do?” Seriously sad to have no dreams at all.[/quote]
I really think it’s because they believe they don’t have the same opportunities that we did. When we were growing up, it was assumed that we would be more successful than our parents. That’s no longer the case.
Also, they’re getting an earful about how “useless” their various degrees are, and about how people in less developed countries are hungry for their jobs and are willing to work in harsh circumstances for little pay. Instead of motivating them, I think it just becomes disheartening, and they lose interest.
July 7, 2014 @ 11:08 PM
Understand, CAR–have read
Understand, CAR–have read all of the same. It’s a very difficult time for young people, but, I hope there is an answer for them somewhere.
July 9, 2014 @ 9:03 PM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
It’s a lot different if you’re having to fight uphill due to ethnicity, lack of intact family, lack of resources, subpar education, etc.
This is one of those taboo subjects, but there is an undiscussed war on the poor and the underclass in this country, and it starts with the tax rolls (or lack thereof) and how kids are educated, or not.
If you don’t have that foundation, you’re pretty well fucked.[/quote]
I like you Allan.
You’re in it for the good of the whole…and I respect that immensely.
We don’t always agree on the right way to go about making this a better country, but your heart is in the right place.
July 7, 2014 @ 9:20 AM
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Not a lot of sympathy in our family for those who weren’t willing to work hard and strive.
I learned to bust my ass at a young age and I have worked for everything I have. Is this the only way to do things? Nope. But it’s served me well.[/quote]
I guess I’m grateful for being a slacker.
I can’t say that I’ve really busted ass in anything that I did. To claim that I worked hard would be to minimize the work of those who really do.
School came easy and jobs pretty much fell in my lap.
Even with my real estate investing and the remodeling required, my level of effort was no more than that of a hobbyist carpenter.
I think that with more ambition, I could have achieved a lot more.
My sympathies are for those who work hard but don’t strive. There are millions.
July 6, 2014 @ 11:13 AM
Shining city on the hill.
Shining city on the hill. Hah! We have good aspects, but also a lot of problems…
(1) Letting the religious crazies run amuck. I’m not against organized religion, but it has little place in government.
(2) Piss-poor investment in infrastructure. Drive on a US Interstate and one in a well-managed foreign country, and you’ll see the difference.
(3) Letting the fearmongers from the media who will sell any amount of fear for a piece of silver run amuck. Yeah, yeah, freedom of speech, but if there wasn’t a market for lurid gore, it wouldn’t be sold.
I wish they would STOP! talking about every shooting and kidnapping as if it were the norm. You know that in Germany, kids as young as seven or eight are not only encouraged, but almost required to walk to school without parents? Whereas in many parts of the US, this would almost be considered abusive.
(4) Lack of good social safety nets combined with policies that discourage any sort of meaningful saving. Maybe if people had a cushion to fall back on whenever there was a recession, spending wouldn’t fall as dramatically. Psychologically, people who have money are more likely to open their wallets than the hand-to-mouth crowd.
(5) Generally unequal levels of education and knowledge. We might have the best educational system in the world on the high end, but it’s also very unequal, even between different schools in the same city or county.
(6) Too much concentration on faddy industries. Whether I.T. now or biotech in the early 90s. Not enough competent engineers in other fields being turned out. Everyone wants to go to Hollywood, or Sillycone Valley. Fewer people want to work on infrastructure improvement, civil engineering, etc.
(7) We have the technology to almost 100% wean from fossil fuels. Why aren’t we doing it other than in niche markets?
July 4, 2014 @ 7:09 PM
paramount wrote:flyer wrote:I
[quote=paramount][quote=flyer]I “really like America.” Not that the Country is without problems, but it’s been great to me and my family, and we appreciate being here, versus anyplace else in the world.
The good new for those who don’t like it, is that most are free to leave anytime they wish. In fact, the rest of us will really appreciate the extra space they leave behind.[/quote]
I figured it wouldn’t be long until someone pulled the love it or leave it card.
That expression was a personal favorite of Joseph McCarthy.[/quote]
Paramount: Doesn’t it strike you as a mite disingenuous to argue the Tea Party’s corner and then come back with referencing McCarthy?
July 5, 2014 @ 4:20 PM
Man… the hate…..
And I
Man… the hate…..
And I thought I was bad, you know being conservative and all…
July 9, 2014 @ 8:08 AM
I pretty much blindly “loved”
I pretty much blindly “loved” America as the best, most freedom, etc until I was in my early 20’s.
I had a Canadian neighbor who was in San Diego on a work internship for a year. We had these deep conversations about the concept of Patriotism. Every argument I had for why the USA was superior – he tossed back Canada. And Canada came out ahead in some cases.
We talked about other countries as well – and there were several that had the features I find attractive: democracy, capitalism and the idea that you could work hard and get ahead. Not just the USA and Canada… Australia, New Zealand, Costa Rica, etc.
We like to feel that we are superior – that no other country offers what we have in the USA… but there are other countries, who’s citizens justifiably feel their country is superior (or equal) and offers them opportunities.
July 9, 2014 @ 1:19 PM
Canadians love their country
Canadians love their country but not their weather.
Canadians also love the “resort” communities we have here. That’s why they are all over the sunbelt.
One of my Canadian friends has many relatives here. She said that prior to the 1950s Canadians were allowed to come and become US citizens. Lots of English and Irish came to the USA by way of Canada because it was easier.
July 9, 2014 @ 5:35 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Canadians
[quote=FlyerInHi]Canadians love their country but not their weather.
Canadians also love the “resort” communities we have here. That’s why they are all over the sunbelt.
One of my Canadian friends has many relatives here. She said that prior to the 1950s Canadians were allowed to come and become US citizens. Lots of English and Irish came to the USA by way of Canada because it was easier.[/quote]
That’s how my mom got in, too. She lived in Ontario and, while freezing and wearing double coats, they were watching the Rose Parade on TV. She said that watching those girls in bathing suits (her words) and the palm trees in the background with the beautiful weather made her realize how crazy she was to be in Canada, so she moved here just two weeks later. It was much easier to become a US citizen through Canada because the US didn’t want to grant citizenship to Germans and Austrians after WWII, so many Germanic people came via Canada.
July 10, 2014 @ 8:04 AM
When people say we’re losing
When people say we’re losing our freedoms in America, I always wonder what year they feel was better.
Back when women couldn’t vote?
Back when slavery was in use?
Maybe when we had “separate but equal”?
During Prohibition?
When abortion was illegal?
We are getting a few returned to us right now too, witness Washington/Colorado.
We are also winning new ones, like gay marriage.
But alas, polygamy is still against the law. Damn politicians!
July 10, 2014 @ 8:31 AM
Net Freedom increased as soon
Net Freedom increased as soon as I moved out of my parents house
July 10, 2014 @ 11:26 AM
svelte wrote:When people say
[quote=svelte]When people say we’re losing our freedoms in America, I always wonder what year they feel was better.
Back when women couldn’t vote?
Back when slavery was in use?
Maybe when we had “separate but equal”?
During Prohibition?
When abortion was illegal?
We are getting a few returned to us right now too, witness Washington/Colorado.
We are also winning new ones, like gay marriage.
But alas, polygamy is still against the law. Damn politicians![/quote]
Good points.
Polygamy. It’s funny that the usual fantasy of polygamy is so different from what we know it would really be like. Just imagine a guy who likes things clean, streamlined, and uncluttered (Svelte) having TWO wives. Oh, the horror.
July 10, 2014 @ 12:49 PM
Pol ygamy is an icky word.
Pol ygamy is an icky word. We don’t call marriage to one woman monogamy. We need a new word.
Marriages.
Marriage plus.
Multimarriage.
Manymarry.
Seems wrong to prohibit successful dudes from having many wives. Shouldn’t have to do it on the sly. If i have the money or the looks why shouldn’t i sire 50 or 100 legitimate sons?
I don’t know
.seems odd to have a society with as many illegitimate kids as we do and not allow multimarriages. I of course can only deal with .2 wives.
July 10, 2014 @ 1:14 PM
I know a guy who’s
I know a guy who’s polygamous. A Vietnam vet. He married a gal while on R&R in the Philippines. Then he went back home and left her there. Never bothered to divorce or anything. He’s been remarried 3 times since then.
Seems irresponsible because that first wife has rights to his assets, etc…
July 11, 2014 @ 2:49 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:Pol
[quote=scaredyclassic]Pol ygamy is an icky word. We don’t call marriage to one woman monogamy. We need a new word.
Marriages.
Marriage plus.
Multimarriage.
Manymarry.
Seems wrong to prohibit successful dudes from having many wives. Shouldn’t have to do it on the sly. If i have the money or the looks why shouldn’t i sire 50 or 100 legitimate sons?
I don’t know
.seems odd to have a society with as many illegitimate kids as we do and not allow multimarriages. I of course can only deal with .2 wives.[/quote]
Not only that, but it would actually offer better protection to first families if men weren’t allowed/forced to leave one family for another.
From a purely logical perspective, polygamy makes sense. Better than the serial polygamy we live with now, IMO.
July 11, 2014 @ 7:22 AM
if i only want to have sex
if i only want to have sex once a week, and i have 200 wives, there’s gonna be a 4 year waitlist…gonna be hard to get everyone pregnant at that rate. im going to need a fulltime fertility coordinator to schedule appointments…or ramp up mysex schedule…
it’s just too complicated.
July 11, 2014 @ 9:03 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:if i
[quote=scaredyclassic]if i only want to have sex once a week, and i have 200 wives, there’s gonna be a 4 year waitlist…gonna be hard to get everyone pregnant at that rate. im going to need a fulltime fertility coordinator to schedule appointments…or ramp up mysex schedule…
it’s just too complicated.[/quote]
Wow. That escalated quickly.
Tying that back into love of country, there’s that line in “Full Metal Jacket” where Animal Mother says, “If I’m dying for a word, it ain’t freedom. It’s poontang.”
July 11, 2014 @ 9:43 AM
I think a more realistic goal
I think a more realistic goal for me personally is 10 wives and have sex 1.5 times average per week. That way everyone is covered quarterly, and I can build in a buffer if I get tired.
July 11, 2014 @ 9:56 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:I think
[quote=scaredyclassic]I think a more realistic goal for me personally is 10 wives and have sex 1.5 times average per week. That way everyone is covered quarterly, and I can build in a buffer if I get tired.[/quote]
You could probably also hire an extra guy to help carry the load, as it were.
July 11, 2014 @ 9:47 AM
From a purely logical
Problem is that the wealthier men would monopolize the women (unless you’re also allowing polyandry or amorphous poly-families). Sex-starvation in the “other” men would tend to lead to things like war fever and uncontrollable rage.
A roughly 1:1 pairing of hetero people makes the most sense for social harmony.
July 11, 2014 @ 9:55 AM
spdrun wrote:
From a purely
[quote=spdrun]
Problem is that the wealthier men would monopolize the women (unless you’re also allowing polyandry or amorphous poly-families). Sex-starvation in the “other” men would tend to lead to things like war fever and uncontrollable rage.
A roughly 1:1 pairing of hetero people makes the most sense for social harmony.[/quote]
Which is why China is heading for trouble.
July 12, 2014 @ 12:00 AM
spdrun wrote:
From a purely
[quote=spdrun]
Problem is that the wealthier men would monopolize the women (unless you’re also allowing polyandry or amorphous poly-families). Sex-starvation in the “other” men would tend to lead to things like war fever and uncontrollable rage.
A roughly 1:1 pairing of hetero people makes the most sense for social harmony.[/quote]
Probably true, but beautiful women monopolize men, too. What should we do about that? Don’t we need equality for the less attractive women, too? 😉
July 12, 2014 @ 9:40 AM
There’s no point to any woman
There’s no point to any woman having lots of men because she only has one womb.
Lately I wish I had more kids.
July 13, 2014 @ 1:27 AM
Beware of Black Widows: eg
Beware of Black Widows: eg Forest Hayes
July 13, 2014 @ 6:45 AM
^^^
I don’t think marriage
^^^
I don’t think marriage was ever a question in the Hayes case — the woman in question was a high-priced hooker, right?
July 13, 2014 @ 9:03 AM
The Hayes case so stinks of
The Hayes case so stinks of establishment privilege.
Plenty of people overdose and die. People do drugs together and die. That’s the risk. Hayes chose his fate.
Here, the establishment is saying we can’t countenance one of our own dying. He was rich and successful… He was too good to die. So we will make the hooker pay.
IMO, the girl should go free.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:12 AM
^^^
She was apparently
^^^
She was apparently involved in another death and had a weird obsession with serial killers. What if she injected him with heroin that was deliberately stronger than he expected? I don’t see a problem with this being investigated and going up in front of a grand jury at minimum.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:26 AM
Like I said, establishment
Like I said, establishment privilege.
This case is investigated because the dead loser was rich, successful, and a google executive, but still a loser nonetheless.
plenty of overdose cases are written off as “just another loser dying.”
July 13, 2014 @ 9:34 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Like I said,
[quote=FlyerInHi]Like I said, establishment privilege.
This case is investigated because the dead loser was rich, successful, and a google executive, but still a loser nonetheless.
plenty of overdose cases are written off as “just another loser dying.”[/quote]
No, sorry. You’re conveniently overlooking her being caught on film. This is very much Depraved Indifference at a minimum. Add in that other case back in Georgia, I believe, along with her various Facebook postings and you have a disturbing pattern of behavior.
Yeah, he wasn’t some junkie skel in a ghetto shooting gallery, but you’re also ignoring some other big, key elements here.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:57 AM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
No, sorry. You’re conveniently overlooking her being caught on film. This is very much Depraved Indifference at a minimum. Add in that other case back in Georgia, I believe, along with her various Facebook postings and you have a disturbing pattern of behavior.
Yeah, he wasn’t some junkie skel in a ghetto shooting gallery, but you’re also ignoring some other big, key elements here.[/quote]
OK, I see your point.
But the investigation of drug deaths whenever there is video evidence amounts to establishment privilege. The rich live in places where is there is security and electronic evidence of people coming and going.
So police resources are used investigate some druggie’s death when they could be doing more useful things?
I’m not saying that this death is getting special treatment…. I’m saying that the system is setup in a way that certain people automatically get special treatment.
Personally if I were at a party where some loser is passed out on the floor, I might just walk over the guy and leave. The feeling of disgust might be even stronger for an otherwise “successful” guy who should know better.
My initial reaction is that the hooker’s past is irrelevant. In the drug world, it’s not uncommon to have witnessed a death or 2.
But Ok, maybe the police might be on to something with the facebook postings, etc.. I don’t know because I didn’t read about that. My info is incomplete.
But you have to wonder if it were any other insignificant druggie if the police would have investigated further.
July 13, 2014 @ 10:01 AM
FIH: I do agree with your
FIH: I do agree with your sentiments about class here, and, upon reflection: you’re right. His position does make a difference, along with his access to things that position buys, like cameras.
Eliminate the video and this probably never rises above a tragic accident. Yeah, this woman probably should have known better than to post what she did on Facebook, especially in her line of work, but that video was key.
And, yeah, most garden variety junkies aren’t running around wearing Google Glass.
July 14, 2014 @ 2:18 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
No, sorry. You’re conveniently overlooking her being caught on film. This is very much Depraved Indifference at a minimum. Add in that other case back in Georgia, I believe, along with her various Facebook postings and you have a disturbing pattern of behavior.
Yeah, he wasn’t some junkie skel in a ghetto shooting gallery, but you’re also ignoring some other big, key elements here.[/quote]
OK, I see your point.
But the investigation of drug deaths whenever there is video evidence amounts to establishment privilege. The rich live in places where is there is security and electronic evidence of people coming and going.
So police resources are used investigate some druggie’s death when they could be doing more useful things?
I’m not saying that this death is getting special treatment…. I’m saying that the system is setup in a way that certain people automatically get special treatment.
Personally if I were at a party where some loser is passed out on the floor, I might just walk over the guy and leave. The feeling of disgust might be even stronger for an otherwise “successful” guy who should know better.
My initial reaction is that the hooker’s past is irrelevant. In the drug world, it’s not uncommon to have witnessed a death or 2.
But Ok, maybe the police might be on to something with the facebook postings, etc.. I don’t know because I didn’t read about that. My info is incomplete.
But you have to wonder if it were any other insignificant druggie if the police would have investigated further.[/quote]
Remember when River Phoenix was dying right on the sidewalk in front of a nightclub? Tons of people walked right over and by him as he lay dying.
In the world of extreme drug addition and alcoholism, watching people pass out from getting too high/drunk is probably not at all uncommon. Not at all. And a herion addict being around when two (out of how many? she claimed to have had over 200 “customers,” alone!) friends/customers who are using heroin die? Probably not that uncommon at all.
July 14, 2014 @ 10:07 AM
CA renter wrote:
In the world
[quote=CA renter]
In the world of extreme drug addition and alcoholism, watching people pass out from getting too high/drunk is probably not at all uncommon. Not at all. And a herion addict being around when two (out of how many? she claimed to have had over 200 “customers,” alone!) friends/customers who are using heroin die? Probably not that uncommon at all.[/quote]
I was fresh of the boat when I saw a middle-aged women having a seizure in the checkout area of the local Target store. I was the only one trying to help her. One of the clerks told me I should not be doing that if I am not certified and that I could get sued even if she recovers. Not the most qualified legal advice, but I thought it shows the mindset.
July 14, 2014 @ 5:26 PM
all wrote:CA renter wrote:
In
[quote=all][quote=CA renter]
In the world of extreme drug addition and alcoholism, watching people pass out from getting too high/drunk is probably not at all uncommon. Not at all. And a herion addict being around when two (out of how many? she claimed to have had over 200 “customers,” alone!) friends/customers who are using heroin die? Probably not that uncommon at all.[/quote]
I was fresh of the boat when I saw a middle-aged women having a seizure in the checkout area of the local Target store. I was the only one trying to help her. One of the clerks told me I should not be doing that if I am not certified and that I could get sued even if she recovers. Not the most qualified legal advice, but I thought it shows the mindset.[/quote]
Yes, it does. I think this is surprisingly common, unfortunately.
BTW, thank you so very much for helping that woman. I wish there were more people like you out there. It’s always sad to watch a news clip where someone is clearly in distress and everyone else is standing around watching (or intentionally ignoring them!).
July 14, 2014 @ 9:36 PM
I was fresh of the boat when
Does CA have “Good Samaritan” laws to protect folks who render aid in good faith?
July 15, 2014 @ 12:14 AM
spdrun wrote:
I was fresh of
[quote=spdrun]
Does CA have “Good Samaritan” laws to protect folks who render aid in good faith?[/quote]
The Supreme Court of California has ruled that one good deed may very well not go unpunished — unleashing a debate not only on who is a Good Samaritan but also who shouldn’t even think about being one. On Dec. 19, the court made a decision in the case of Alexandra Van Horn v. Lisa Torti. The case alleged that Torti worsened the injuries suffered by Van Horn by yanking her “like a rag doll” from a wrecked car on Nov. 1, 2004, thus rendering Van Horn a paraplegic. The court found that Torti wasn’t protected from legal action under California’s current Good Samaritan laws.
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1871331,00.html
July 13, 2014 @ 9:24 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:The Hayes
[quote=FlyerInHi]The Hayes case so stinks of establishment privilege.
Plenty of people overdose and die. People do drugs together and die. That’s the risk. Hayes chose his fate.
Here, the establishment is saying we can’t countenance one of our own dying. He was rich and successful… He was too good to die. So we will make the hooker pay.
IMO, the girl should go free.[/quote]
Um, yeah, but the part about her being caught on film essentially watching his last moments and then finishing a glass of wine, tidying up and then leaving is going to be problematic, to say the least.
As to entitlement privilege, meh. Your point about him running the risk of death by using heroin is well taken and correct: we need cast no further back than Philip Seymour Hoffman to find another example. Entitlement privilege is so overdone right now, though.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:32 AM
Allan from Fallbrook
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Um, yeah, but the part about her being caught on film essentially watching his last moments and then finishing a glass of wine, tidying up and then leaving is going to be problematic, to say the least. [/quote]
I don’t see a problem with that.
She thought the guy was passed out on drug, probably like she’s seen many times before, and said I’m leaving. She didn’t bother to check on the loser, gathered her things, enjoyed a quiet moment with the glass of wine and left.
She didn’t kill him. He killed himself.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:38 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:Allan from
[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Um, yeah, but the part about her being caught on film essentially watching his last moments and then finishing a glass of wine, tidying up and then leaving is going to be problematic, to say the least. [/quote]
I don’t see a problem with that.
She thought the guy was passed out on drug, probably like she’s seen many times before, and said I’m leaving. She didn’t bother to check on the loser, gathered her things, enjoyed a quiet moment with the glass of wine and left.
She didn’t kill him. He killed himself.[/quote]
I actually don’t disagree with you. Dude was a piece of shit. And the attempts to posthumously lionize him as a family man and father are pathetically sad. I’m fairly certain his wife and kids weren’t there when he shot up.
But, the police indicated that the film shows him in distress and that she was attempting to clean up what would become a crime scene.
July 14, 2014 @ 2:10 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:The Hayes
[quote=FlyerInHi]The Hayes case so stinks of establishment privilege.
Plenty of people overdose and die. People do drugs together and die. That’s the risk. Hayes chose his fate.
Here, the establishment is saying we can’t countenance one of our own dying. He was rich and successful… He was too good to die. So we will make the hooker pay.
IMO, the girl should go free.[/quote]
Though we don’t know all of the details, I agree with you on this. It will probably be difficult to convict her of murder. He was no victim.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:29 AM
spdrun wrote:^^^
I don’t
[quote=spdrun]^^^
I don’t think marriage was ever a question in the Hayes case — the woman in question was a high-priced hooker, right?[/quote]
Have you seen her picture? How was that skeeved out skank high priced?
A local (Santa Cruz) paper referred to her as “high-end”. In what alternate reality is that thing high-end?
July 13, 2014 @ 9:31 AM
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
A
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
A local (Santa Cruz) paper referred to her as “high-end”. In what alternate reality is that thing high-end?[/quote]
that I totally agree with.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:35 AM
Regarding “high end”, she
Regarding “high end”, she probably looked like less of a crank-skank with some makeup on and after drug-induced beer goggles supervened.
Anyway, I suspect that’s the best she’ll ever look. People age quickly in prison.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:42 AM
spdrun wrote:Regarding “high
[quote=spdrun]Regarding “high end”, she probably looked like less of a crank-skank with some makeup on and after drug-induced beer goggles supervened.
Anyway, I suspect that’s the best she’ll ever look. People age quickly in prison.[/quote]
If I remember correctly, you live in or near NYC, correct?
I’m not trying to cast any aspersions, but I’m guessing during your nighttime/night life travels in, say, Manhattan, you’ve seen “high-end” talent. I’m further guessing it didn’t look anything like that low-rent Trailer Trash Treasure in the picture.
July 13, 2014 @ 9:47 AM
Of course, but said talent
Of course, but said talent was generally made up and dressed up. I can only imagine how it would look after a rough night at Central Booking in the Tombs(*).
(*) – the lovely nickname for the county jail in Manhattan.