[carli]

We have a 3rd grader and an 8th grader and have yet to see the schools (Del Mar Union and San Dieguito Union H.S. districts) teach anything about how to deal with money matters. I agree that it would be a great idea, and is a critical life skill. I’m hoping that when our oldest starts high school next year, she’ll run into something about management of finances within her four years of high school, but I’m not too optimistic.

In the meantime, we’re not waiting for anyone else to teach her.

I grew up in an upper-middle class east coast family where talk of money was somewhat tabboo and considered tacky. I never had a clue about how to manage finances and had to learn the hard way when I had a similar experience to the original poster. When I went off to college, my dad deposited my spending money into a checking account, gave me a checkbook (okay, I’m dating myself…this was in 1980 before kids used credit cards). Although I intellectually understood that it was not possible to get more money out of the account by writing checks in excess of the balance, I still did it…I, too, lived for a short while in blissful ignorance, stuffing my unopened bank statements in a drawer somewhere until I got into major hot water with not only my dad but also several stores where I had written bad checks. It took me a few other missteps with newly ordered credit cards soon after I landed my first job before I truly learned my lesson.

I think what finally helped me become more aware and careful of my finances was that I started working insanely crazy and difficult hours in a very intense and competitive career in NYC…in the beginning, I wasn’t making much money at all yet was surrounded by people who were. I was scraping by to make rent and buy food and began to have this “me against the world” kind of survival mentality about it all. It all felt so difficult, but in a way, it was also a great feeling because it was my first true feeling of being empowered, knowing that my success, financially and otherwise, was solely up to me. I’m sure others here had a similar realization early on, but it took me until my late-20’s to really “get it” and I wish somehow I could magically instill in my kids that knowledge that it’s up to them and them alone to really make it in the world, and that successful money management is a big part of making it – obviously, there are many other important core values/skills, but that’s one that will truly help them feel empowered and secure in the real world.

As a result of my early missteps, I became almost paranoid (in a healthy way) about spending money and not having enough. After a few years, I started moving up the corporate ladder and when I finally was making big bucks, and could afford to spend pretty freely, I realized how hard it had been to make all that money and I didn’t want to let go of it so easily….also, I still had/have that healthy paranoia and memories of not having enough and screwing up with credit cards. As it turns out, I realized that watching my savings grow brought me far more satisfaction than most material stuff. I also realized that things that bring me the most joy don’t cost money anyway (totally hokey but true).

In contrast, my husband learned his lessons early and they stuck with him. He paid his way through college, even though his parents were well off (his father believed that kids shouldn’t even get an allowance so my husband always earned his own spending money). As a result, he valued his money and managed it extremely well throughout his entire life, probably because it was never handed to him as casually as mine was in the early years. He’s not cheap, but he’s definitely thrifty, as I am. We don’t buy stuff, even though we can comfortably afford to buy whatever we want, and we truly do question every purchase…most of the time, we won’t miss the material things we think we want.

Back to the kids…it is tough to teach them because if we lecture about money, it comes out like “blah, blah, blah” and they won’t get it anyway. Still, we don’t want to avoid discussing it because that doesn’t work either. So, we try to not only freely express our values as they relate to money but also make sure that we show by example. We don’t harp on it, but we do let them know that we work hard to be able to live in this wonderful area, have the things we choose to buy, the trips we’re able to take, etc, etc.

We also do a few other things like we’ll match any money that the kids choose to put into their savings accounts. It’s always a dilemma when they either earn or are given a chunk of money as a b’day gift. For example, our older daughter had $50 from babysitting and she realized that she could make it $100 by putting it in her bank account or spend the $50 on random stuff. Hard call for her, but it will hopefully show the benefits of saving.

It’s tough because most of the other kids she goes to school with are given most of what they have and never have to earn it…and these are not small ticket items! Many, many of the kids in 8th grade these days have Blackberries, iPhones, designer sunglasses, $200 jeans, etc, etc, etc. I don’t know if the parents can afford it or not (I imagine most of them can), but still – WHY would they do that?? If our daughter needs jeans, she’s not getting $200 jeans. If she needs sunglasses, we’re not getting Chanel sunglasses. It floors me that most of these kids have this stuff! We can definitely easily afford these things, but we choose not to use our money that way. It’s very difficult for her (and sometimes for us, on her behalf) to resist succumbing to the pressure. Believe me, I do not want my daughter to be the oddball whose parents go overboard by depriving her of any cool stuff. We do buy her her fair share of cool things as gifts on birthdays and holidays, but the amount of material junk these kids amass today is staggering. And then, if they have older siblings, these kids are getting cars and pickup trucks for their 16th birthdays. I always thought that the brand new BMW on the 16th b’day was somewhat of a SoCal myth, but now that I have a child approaching that age, I’ve seen it happen myself. How do we expect these kids to understand the value of money by doing something like that?

Okay, I’ll stop my rant but as you can see, this discussion hit home for me because we grapple with it frequently. The question of how best to prepare our kids for the financial realities of the world is a tough one, and one I also wish the schools would help address.

[carli]

At the risk of putting Santaluz residents off, here are my thoughts, based on the fact that you did ask for “views and tidbits” in addition to experiences of those living there –

Everytime I see the name Santaluz, I have to chuckle to myself because my husband and I used to refer to it as “Stand-To-Lose” when we first moved here in 2003.

At the time, our poor tortured realtor was trying to get a sense of where we really wanted to live…we were a lot like you, Raptor, in that we looked at hundreds of houses in many different areas – RSF, Santaluz, Del Mar, Solana Beach, and made unsuccessful bids on several. All the time, we felt the San Diego market was way too red hot and must be at or near its peak. We were reluctant to buy anything, but everytime we’d get into a good-natured debate w/the realtor about how the market was headed down, she’d tell us how Santaluz was different from other places, basically saying that it should hold its value and even continue to appreciate. Having lived through several real estate cycles in various areas around the country, we just didn’t see it and thought that the homes in Santaluz were poised to eventually take a dive. Anyway, after we confessed to her that we’d been calling it “Stand-to-Lose”, which was probably a clear indication that our chances of ever buying there were almost nil, she finally got the message and crossed Santaluz off the list. To this day she still loves Santaluz (and believe it or not, she still talks to us)!

Actually, as it turned out, the joke was on us for a few years since those Santaluz homes were still selling like crazy for at least a couple years after we started calling it that.

Our snide nickname aside, I can only give you my honest reaction to Santaluz although clearly I don’t have nearly as much credibility as someone who lives there. We do know one family who lives there and they seem to like it, but honestly, I don’t hear raves from them. I know that the mom complains about driving everywhere, but they like the schools and they like the rec trails/facilities.

When we were looking at homes there, in the “plus column” was the fact that Santaluz has all those great recreational facitilies, relatively large lots, and a more natural look and feel to the community than other planned communities. I also like the “big sky” feel of the landscape. In the “minus column”, it’s way too far out (where do people go for groceries? Doesn’t going up/down the 56 to go anywhere become a major hassle?), it’s still a little too cookie-cutter looking for us (I know they say the homes are custom, but it doesn’t look that way to me in most areas), and then you have those terrible HOA/Mello Roos fees.

One more issue that weighed on us as a negative (and could just as easily be a positive for others) is that we don’t care for the whole concept of having a built-in social community…heck, we have a hard enough time finding time in our schedule to hang out with our dearest friends and family and we don’t want to feel pressure to attend gatherings in the Santaluz clubhouse. We’re at an age (late 40’s, early 50’s) where we’ve had enough of the country clubs. Also, the whole gated community exclusivity concept also does not sit well with us…we always wonder, who would we be trying to keep out? We try our best to embrace the concepts of diversity and expanding our little worlds, not limiting our relationships to those of the “same kind” and we also try to model this for our kids. This is not always easy here in SoCal, and yes, we could take this to the nth degree and move to an area that is truly totally diverse…we’re not going to do that, but on the other hand we think that gated communities are kind of the ultimate in shutting yourself off from the world (and not in a good way).

So, now you can see how we are not a good fit for Santaluz, nor are we probably their target market.

To give you the final snapshot of how different our tastes and needs are, we ended up buying in Del Mar village, which I think shows that we were/are really at the other end of the spectrum from Santaluz. Here in Del Mar, we have small-ish houses, no amenities, no community gates, no golf courses or rec facilities (well, besides the beach). It’s not for everyone, but it suits us well.

In re-reading my post, I wish I could’ve offered you info that might have been more helpful to your own personal situation…I realize now in writing this all down that our needs and lifestyle may be so different from yours that my thoughts don’t even apply to your situation, but there they are! In any case, I wish you and your family all the best.

[carli]

At the risk of putting Santaluz residents off, here are my thoughts, based on the fact that you did ask for “views and tidbits” in addition to experiences of those living there –

Everytime I see the name Santaluz, I have to chuckle to myself because my husband and I used to refer to it as “Stand-To-Lose” when we first moved here in 2003.

At the time, our poor tortured realtor was trying to get a sense of where we really wanted to live…we were a lot like you, Raptor, in that we looked at hundreds of houses in many different areas – RSF, Santaluz, Del Mar, Solana Beach, and made unsuccessful bids on several. All the time, we felt the San Diego market was way too red hot and must be at or near its peak. We were reluctant to buy anything, but everytime we’d get into a good-natured debate w/the realtor about how the market was headed down, she’d tell us how Santaluz was different from other places, basically saying that it should hold its value and even continue to appreciate. Having lived through several real estate cycles in various areas around the country, we just didn’t see it and thought that the homes in Santaluz were poised to eventually take a dive. Anyway, after we confessed to her that we’d been calling it “Stand-to-Lose”, which was probably a clear indication that our chances of ever buying there were almost nil, she finally got the message and crossed Santaluz off the list. To this day she still loves Santaluz (and believe it or not, she still talks to us)!

Actually, as it turned out, the joke was on us for a few years since those Santaluz homes were still selling like crazy for at least a couple years after we started calling it that.

Our snide nickname aside, I can only give you my honest reaction to Santaluz although clearly I don’t have nearly as much credibility as someone who lives there. We do know one family who lives there and they seem to like it, but honestly, I don’t hear raves from them. I know that the mom complains about driving everywhere, but they like the schools and they like the rec trails/facilities.

When we were looking at homes there, in the “plus column” was the fact that Santaluz has all those great recreational facitilies, relatively large lots, and a more natural look and feel to the community than other planned communities. I also like the “big sky” feel of the landscape. In the “minus column”, it’s way too far out (where do people go for groceries? Doesn’t going up/down the 56 to go anywhere become a major hassle?), it’s still a little too cookie-cutter looking for us (I know they say the homes are custom, but it doesn’t look that way to me in most areas), and then you have those terrible HOA/Mello Roos fees.

One more issue that weighed on us as a negative (and could just as easily be a positive for others) is that we don’t care for the whole concept of having a built-in social community…heck, we have a hard enough time finding time in our schedule to hang out with our dearest friends and family and we don’t want to feel pressure to attend gatherings in the Santaluz clubhouse. We’re at an age (late 40’s, early 50’s) where we’ve had enough of the country clubs. Also, the whole gated community exclusivity concept also does not sit well with us…we always wonder, who would we be trying to keep out? We try our best to embrace the concepts of diversity and expanding our little worlds, not limiting our relationships to those of the “same kind” and we also try to model this for our kids. This is not always easy here in SoCal, and yes, we could take this to the nth degree and move to an area that is truly totally diverse…we’re not going to do that, but on the other hand we think that gated communities are kind of the ultimate in shutting yourself off from the world (and not in a good way).

So, now you can see how we are not a good fit for Santaluz, nor are we probably their target market.

To give you the final snapshot of how different our tastes and needs are, we ended up buying in Del Mar village, which I think shows that we were/are really at the other end of the spectrum from Santaluz. Here in Del Mar, we have small-ish houses, no amenities, no community gates, no golf courses or rec facilities (well, besides the beach). It’s not for everyone, but it suits us well.

In re-reading my post, I wish I could’ve offered you info that might have been more helpful to your own personal situation…I realize now in writing this all down that our needs and lifestyle may be so different from yours that my thoughts don’t even apply to your situation, but there they are! In any case, I wish you and your family all the best.

[carli]

At the risk of putting Santaluz residents off, here are my thoughts, based on the fact that you did ask for “views and tidbits” in addition to experiences of those living there –

Everytime I see the name Santaluz, I have to chuckle to myself because my husband and I used to refer to it as “Stand-To-Lose” when we first moved here in 2003.

At the time, our poor tortured realtor was trying to get a sense of where we really wanted to live…we were a lot like you, Raptor, in that we looked at hundreds of houses in many different areas – RSF, Santaluz, Del Mar, Solana Beach, and made unsuccessful bids on several. All the time, we felt the San Diego market was way too red hot and must be at or near its peak. We were reluctant to buy anything, but everytime we’d get into a good-natured debate w/the realtor about how the market was headed down, she’d tell us how Santaluz was different from other places, basically saying that it should hold its value and even continue to appreciate. Having lived through several real estate cycles in various areas around the country, we just didn’t see it and thought that the homes in Santaluz were poised to eventually take a dive. Anyway, after we confessed to her that we’d been calling it “Stand-to-Lose”, which was probably a clear indication that our chances of ever buying there were almost nil, she finally got the message and crossed Santaluz off the list. To this day she still loves Santaluz (and believe it or not, she still talks to us)!

Actually, as it turned out, the joke was on us for a few years since those Santaluz homes were still selling like crazy for at least a couple years after we started calling it that.

Our snide nickname aside, I can only give you my honest reaction to Santaluz although clearly I don’t have nearly as much credibility as someone who lives there. We do know one family who lives there and they seem to like it, but honestly, I don’t hear raves from them. I know that the mom complains about driving everywhere, but they like the schools and they like the rec trails/facilities.

When we were looking at homes there, in the “plus column” was the fact that Santaluz has all those great recreational facitilies, relatively large lots, and a more natural look and feel to the community than other planned communities. I also like the “big sky” feel of the landscape. In the “minus column”, it’s way too far out (where do people go for groceries? Doesn’t going up/down the 56 to go anywhere become a major hassle?), it’s still a little too cookie-cutter looking for us (I know they say the homes are custom, but it doesn’t look that way to me in most areas), and then you have those terrible HOA/Mello Roos fees.

One more issue that weighed on us as a negative (and could just as easily be a positive for others) is that we don’t care for the whole concept of having a built-in social community…heck, we have a hard enough time finding time in our schedule to hang out with our dearest friends and family and we don’t want to feel pressure to attend gatherings in the Santaluz clubhouse. We’re at an age (late 40’s, early 50’s) where we’ve had enough of the country clubs. Also, the whole gated community exclusivity concept also does not sit well with us…we always wonder, who would we be trying to keep out? We try our best to embrace the concepts of diversity and expanding our little worlds, not limiting our relationships to those of the “same kind” and we also try to model this for our kids. This is not always easy here in SoCal, and yes, we could take this to the nth degree and move to an area that is truly totally diverse…we’re not going to do that, but on the other hand we think that gated communities are kind of the ultimate in shutting yourself off from the world (and not in a good way).

So, now you can see how we are not a good fit for Santaluz, nor are we probably their target market.

To give you the final snapshot of how different our tastes and needs are, we ended up buying in Del Mar village, which I think shows that we were/are really at the other end of the spectrum from Santaluz. Here in Del Mar, we have small-ish houses, no amenities, no community gates, no golf courses or rec facilities (well, besides the beach). It’s not for everyone, but it suits us well.

In re-reading my post, I wish I could’ve offered you info that might have been more helpful to your own personal situation…I realize now in writing this all down that our needs and lifestyle may be so different from yours that my thoughts don’t even apply to your situation, but there they are! In any case, I wish you and your family all the best.

[carli]

At the risk of putting Santaluz residents off, here are my thoughts, based on the fact that you did ask for “views and tidbits” in addition to experiences of those living there –

Everytime I see the name Santaluz, I have to chuckle to myself because my husband and I used to refer to it as “Stand-To-Lose” when we first moved here in 2003.

At the time, our poor tortured realtor was trying to get a sense of where we really wanted to live…we were a lot like you, Raptor, in that we looked at hundreds of houses in many different areas – RSF, Santaluz, Del Mar, Solana Beach, and made unsuccessful bids on several. All the time, we felt the San Diego market was way too red hot and must be at or near its peak. We were reluctant to buy anything, but everytime we’d get into a good-natured debate w/the realtor about how the market was headed down, she’d tell us how Santaluz was different from other places, basically saying that it should hold its value and even continue to appreciate. Having lived through several real estate cycles in various areas around the country, we just didn’t see it and thought that the homes in Santaluz were poised to eventually take a dive. Anyway, after we confessed to her that we’d been calling it “Stand-to-Lose”, which was probably a clear indication that our chances of ever buying there were almost nil, she finally got the message and crossed Santaluz off the list. To this day she still loves Santaluz (and believe it or not, she still talks to us)!

Actually, as it turned out, the joke was on us for a few years since those Santaluz homes were still selling like crazy for at least a couple years after we started calling it that.

Our snide nickname aside, I can only give you my honest reaction to Santaluz although clearly I don’t have nearly as much credibility as someone who lives there. We do know one family who lives there and they seem to like it, but honestly, I don’t hear raves from them. I know that the mom complains about driving everywhere, but they like the schools and they like the rec trails/facilities.

When we were looking at homes there, in the “plus column” was the fact that Santaluz has all those great recreational facitilies, relatively large lots, and a more natural look and feel to the community than other planned communities. I also like the “big sky” feel of the landscape. In the “minus column”, it’s way too far out (where do people go for groceries? Doesn’t going up/down the 56 to go anywhere become a major hassle?), it’s still a little too cookie-cutter looking for us (I know they say the homes are custom, but it doesn’t look that way to me in most areas), and then you have those terrible HOA/Mello Roos fees.

One more issue that weighed on us as a negative (and could just as easily be a positive for others) is that we don’t care for the whole concept of having a built-in social community…heck, we have a hard enough time finding time in our schedule to hang out with our dearest friends and family and we don’t want to feel pressure to attend gatherings in the Santaluz clubhouse. We’re at an age (late 40’s, early 50’s) where we’ve had enough of the country clubs. Also, the whole gated community exclusivity concept also does not sit well with us…we always wonder, who would we be trying to keep out? We try our best to embrace the concepts of diversity and expanding our little worlds, not limiting our relationships to those of the “same kind” and we also try to model this for our kids. This is not always easy here in SoCal, and yes, we could take this to the nth degree and move to an area that is truly totally diverse…we’re not going to do that, but on the other hand we think that gated communities are kind of the ultimate in shutting yourself off from the world (and not in a good way).

So, now you can see how we are not a good fit for Santaluz, nor are we probably their target market.

To give you the final snapshot of how different our tastes and needs are, we ended up buying in Del Mar village, which I think shows that we were/are really at the other end of the spectrum from Santaluz. Here in Del Mar, we have small-ish houses, no amenities, no community gates, no golf courses or rec facilities (well, besides the beach). It’s not for everyone, but it suits us well.

In re-reading my post, I wish I could’ve offered you info that might have been more helpful to your own personal situation…I realize now in writing this all down that our needs and lifestyle may be so different from yours that my thoughts don’t even apply to your situation, but there they are! In any case, I wish you and your family all the best.

[carli]

At the risk of putting Santaluz residents off, here are my thoughts, based on the fact that you did ask for “views and tidbits” in addition to experiences of those living there –

Everytime I see the name Santaluz, I have to chuckle to myself because my husband and I used to refer to it as “Stand-To-Lose” when we first moved here in 2003.

At the time, our poor tortured realtor was trying to get a sense of where we really wanted to live…we were a lot like you, Raptor, in that we looked at hundreds of houses in many different areas – RSF, Santaluz, Del Mar, Solana Beach, and made unsuccessful bids on several. All the time, we felt the San Diego market was way too red hot and must be at or near its peak. We were reluctant to buy anything, but everytime we’d get into a good-natured debate w/the realtor about how the market was headed down, she’d tell us how Santaluz was different from other places, basically saying that it should hold its value and even continue to appreciate. Having lived through several real estate cycles in various areas around the country, we just didn’t see it and thought that the homes in Santaluz were poised to eventually take a dive. Anyway, after we confessed to her that we’d been calling it “Stand-to-Lose”, which was probably a clear indication that our chances of ever buying there were almost nil, she finally got the message and crossed Santaluz off the list. To this day she still loves Santaluz (and believe it or not, she still talks to us)!

Actually, as it turned out, the joke was on us for a few years since those Santaluz homes were still selling like crazy for at least a couple years after we started calling it that.

Our snide nickname aside, I can only give you my honest reaction to Santaluz although clearly I don’t have nearly as much credibility as someone who lives there. We do know one family who lives there and they seem to like it, but honestly, I don’t hear raves from them. I know that the mom complains about driving everywhere, but they like the schools and they like the rec trails/facilities.

When we were looking at homes there, in the “plus column” was the fact that Santaluz has all those great recreational facitilies, relatively large lots, and a more natural look and feel to the community than other planned communities. I also like the “big sky” feel of the landscape. In the “minus column”, it’s way too far out (where do people go for groceries? Doesn’t going up/down the 56 to go anywhere become a major hassle?), it’s still a little too cookie-cutter looking for us (I know they say the homes are custom, but it doesn’t look that way to me in most areas), and then you have those terrible HOA/Mello Roos fees.

One more issue that weighed on us as a negative (and could just as easily be a positive for others) is that we don’t care for the whole concept of having a built-in social community…heck, we have a hard enough time finding time in our schedule to hang out with our dearest friends and family and we don’t want to feel pressure to attend gatherings in the Santaluz clubhouse. We’re at an age (late 40’s, early 50’s) where we’ve had enough of the country clubs. Also, the whole gated community exclusivity concept also does not sit well with us…we always wonder, who would we be trying to keep out? We try our best to embrace the concepts of diversity and expanding our little worlds, not limiting our relationships to those of the “same kind” and we also try to model this for our kids. This is not always easy here in SoCal, and yes, we could take this to the nth degree and move to an area that is truly totally diverse…we’re not going to do that, but on the other hand we think that gated communities are kind of the ultimate in shutting yourself off from the world (and not in a good way).

So, now you can see how we are not a good fit for Santaluz, nor are we probably their target market.

To give you the final snapshot of how different our tastes and needs are, we ended up buying in Del Mar village, which I think shows that we were/are really at the other end of the spectrum from Santaluz. Here in Del Mar, we have small-ish houses, no amenities, no community gates, no golf courses or rec facilities (well, besides the beach). It’s not for everyone, but it suits us well.

In re-reading my post, I wish I could’ve offered you info that might have been more helpful to your own personal situation…I realize now in writing this all down that our needs and lifestyle may be so different from yours that my thoughts don’t even apply to your situation, but there they are! In any case, I wish you and your family all the best.

[carli]

Ahhh, interesting point about Tempurpedic. Bummer that you can’t get a discount. You’re right – gotta love Costco, especially the return policy.

I chuckled when I read your last comment…if only you knew how many deals my husband and I have worked over the years on different purchases. Funny thing is that he considers himself the financially conservative one, having spent a long career in corporate banking, and he thinks he’s always driving a tough deal yet, more often than not, I have to be the voice of reason in most big negotiations. When we get into the negotiations, I feel like I’m the one who can walk away if the price isn’t right no matter how much I want it, but he gets antsy and just wants it all to be over and to get the deal done, at almost any price (this has happened with houses, cars and now beds)! I can’t even call him on it because he’s so sensitive about it, but it does make me a little crazy to see him leave money on the table. 😉

Hope your back pain gets resolved soon. Take good care.

[carli]

Ahhh, interesting point about Tempurpedic. Bummer that you can’t get a discount. You’re right – gotta love Costco, especially the return policy.

I chuckled when I read your last comment…if only you knew how many deals my husband and I have worked over the years on different purchases. Funny thing is that he considers himself the financially conservative one, having spent a long career in corporate banking, and he thinks he’s always driving a tough deal yet, more often than not, I have to be the voice of reason in most big negotiations. When we get into the negotiations, I feel like I’m the one who can walk away if the price isn’t right no matter how much I want it, but he gets antsy and just wants it all to be over and to get the deal done, at almost any price (this has happened with houses, cars and now beds)! I can’t even call him on it because he’s so sensitive about it, but it does make me a little crazy to see him leave money on the table. 😉

Hope your back pain gets resolved soon. Take good care.

[carli]

Ahhh, interesting point about Tempurpedic. Bummer that you can’t get a discount. You’re right – gotta love Costco, especially the return policy.

I chuckled when I read your last comment…if only you knew how many deals my husband and I have worked over the years on different purchases. Funny thing is that he considers himself the financially conservative one, having spent a long career in corporate banking, and he thinks he’s always driving a tough deal yet, more often than not, I have to be the voice of reason in most big negotiations. When we get into the negotiations, I feel like I’m the one who can walk away if the price isn’t right no matter how much I want it, but he gets antsy and just wants it all to be over and to get the deal done, at almost any price (this has happened with houses, cars and now beds)! I can’t even call him on it because he’s so sensitive about it, but it does make me a little crazy to see him leave money on the table. 😉

Hope your back pain gets resolved soon. Take good care.

[carli]

Ahhh, interesting point about Tempurpedic. Bummer that you can’t get a discount. You’re right – gotta love Costco, especially the return policy.

I chuckled when I read your last comment…if only you knew how many deals my husband and I have worked over the years on different purchases. Funny thing is that he considers himself the financially conservative one, having spent a long career in corporate banking, and he thinks he’s always driving a tough deal yet, more often than not, I have to be the voice of reason in most big negotiations. When we get into the negotiations, I feel like I’m the one who can walk away if the price isn’t right no matter how much I want it, but he gets antsy and just wants it all to be over and to get the deal done, at almost any price (this has happened with houses, cars and now beds)! I can’t even call him on it because he’s so sensitive about it, but it does make me a little crazy to see him leave money on the table. 😉

Hope your back pain gets resolved soon. Take good care.

[carli]

Ahhh, interesting point about Tempurpedic. Bummer that you can’t get a discount. You’re right – gotta love Costco, especially the return policy.

I chuckled when I read your last comment…if only you knew how many deals my husband and I have worked over the years on different purchases. Funny thing is that he considers himself the financially conservative one, having spent a long career in corporate banking, and he thinks he’s always driving a tough deal yet, more often than not, I have to be the voice of reason in most big negotiations. When we get into the negotiations, I feel like I’m the one who can walk away if the price isn’t right no matter how much I want it, but he gets antsy and just wants it all to be over and to get the deal done, at almost any price (this has happened with houses, cars and now beds)! I can’t even call him on it because he’s so sensitive about it, but it does make me a little crazy to see him leave money on the table. 😉

Hope your back pain gets resolved soon. Take good care.

[carli]

I have LOTS of recent experience with back pain and mattress-buying, and here’s what I found –

I had lower back pain most mornings for about a year. This may have been because I’m a long distance runner and love to run hilly areas, which can cause major backaches, but also I think our too-soft bed was causing some of it. Anyway, two things fixed it –

First, I went to a fantastic massage therapist who is a real pro at both sports injuries and just general knowledge about how the body works, and he told me that an incredible percentage of his clients have lower back pain, but after he gets them doing the following exercise, it goes away. The exercise is called the “superman” and here’s how you do it: While laying on your stomach on the floor with your head slightly raised, you slowly lift one arm at the same time as lifting the opposite leg. Lift only about 6-12 inches. You then lower both your arm and opposite leg and repeat on the other side. I do about 30 of these each morning, and it has made a world of difference. It’s extremely easy and you feel like it’s doing nothing, but the exercise really isolates the exact muscle group that causes lower back pain, strengthens it and eventually gets rid of the pain. For me, it only took a couple weeks of doing this. I had been doing a lot of other core work, but none of it worked like this exercise. jp, I realize this isn’t where your pain is, and I’m sorry it seems that yours may be a more complicated medical issue.

Even after the exercises got rid of the pain, we still realized we needed a new bed. I launched into major research mode and read Consumer Reports (they just did an article about how to buy a bed), looked all over the internet, talked w/friends, doctors, etc, etc. Here’s what I learned –

It is really important to go in to several bedding stores and lay on as many mattresses as you can. Nothing can replace the importance of trying and feeling what is best for you. Don’t plan to buy until you’ve spent a considerable time doing this. Price has nothing to do with your future satisfaction so don’t assume you’re going to have to buy a sleep number bed, tempurpedic or any other specific type. What works for someone else might be terrible for you. Also, there’s no correlation between price and satisfaction on this.

You need to spend at least 15 mins on each mattress that you’re considering…5 mins on stomach, 5 mins on back, 5 mins on side. Don’t feel weird doing this – this is a huge purchase, not just financially but more importantly, your choice will determine your sleep satisfaction and restfulness (or lack thereof).

Beds have incredible mark-up so you really need to bargain with the store, and not just a little, but A LOT. For example, after going to numerous sleep stores and doing what I’ve suggested above, we ended up at Sleep Train focused on buying a Simmons Beautyrest Black Viola model (it’s so recent that I remember the name). I think this model retailed for close to $4000. We ended up talking with the salesguy for a long time about it, and then my hubby and I went into our “good cop, bad cop” mode. Unfortunately, I always have to play bad cop. After the sales guy came down a few hundred dollars and threw in no sales tax, my hubby said, “let’s just buy it, we’ve been looking forever and we just need it”. I said, “yes, I want it, too, but I’m just not going to spend over $2000 on a bed.” Blah, blah, blah…this went on for some time. The guy tried to show us other beds for $2000, but my hubby and I insisted this was the only one we wanted. We then said that we were going to have to shop around a little more (which obviously we really didn’t want to do), unless the sales guy would be willing to accept $2000 right now, with tax and delivery included. He went over to his desk, called his manager, spent a lot of time working the numbers, but we ended up getting the deal, which shows just how much mark-up there is in these things. Who knows, maybe we didn’t even get the best deal we could’ve gotten, but the point is that there is at least 100% mark-up on these expensive beds.

The funny thing is that when the guy who delivered our bed was putting it in our bedroom, my husband made a comment about the mark-ups on beds, and the delivery guy told us that he gets a huge discount with the company, and he actually ordered a pricier model than ours and paid $400 with his company discount…so, maybe that’s what the bed actually costs the manufacturer. If so, we still clearly overpaid by buying the $4000 model for $2000. Anyway, it’s ridiculous! Also, with the housing slowdown, the bedding industry has been enormously impacted, and there are more deals to be had than ever.

Last point – make sure you go to a store that has a good return policy. Sleep Train lets you return the mattress for a credit towards another one within 60 days as long as you’ve used one of those whole mattress covers and there isn’t a single mark on it. We love ours and have no intention of getting another one, but it’s nice to know we have that option. I think Mattress Discounters and others have the same policy. Maybe it’s even the law, I don’t know.

A good night’s sleep is SO important, yet buying a mattress is such a ridiculously expensive and frustrating experience. You need fortitude, patience and persistence – good luck!!

[carli]

I have LOTS of recent experience with back pain and mattress-buying, and here’s what I found –

I had lower back pain most mornings for about a year. This may have been because I’m a long distance runner and love to run hilly areas, which can cause major backaches, but also I think our too-soft bed was causing some of it. Anyway, two things fixed it –

First, I went to a fantastic massage therapist who is a real pro at both sports injuries and just general knowledge about how the body works, and he told me that an incredible percentage of his clients have lower back pain, but after he gets them doing the following exercise, it goes away. The exercise is called the “superman” and here’s how you do it: While laying on your stomach on the floor with your head slightly raised, you slowly lift one arm at the same time as lifting the opposite leg. Lift only about 6-12 inches. You then lower both your arm and opposite leg and repeat on the other side. I do about 30 of these each morning, and it has made a world of difference. It’s extremely easy and you feel like it’s doing nothing, but the exercise really isolates the exact muscle group that causes lower back pain, strengthens it and eventually gets rid of the pain. For me, it only took a couple weeks of doing this. I had been doing a lot of other core work, but none of it worked like this exercise. jp, I realize this isn’t where your pain is, and I’m sorry it seems that yours may be a more complicated medical issue.

Even after the exercises got rid of the pain, we still realized we needed a new bed. I launched into major research mode and read Consumer Reports (they just did an article about how to buy a bed), looked all over the internet, talked w/friends, doctors, etc, etc. Here’s what I learned –

It is really important to go in to several bedding stores and lay on as many mattresses as you can. Nothing can replace the importance of trying and feeling what is best for you. Don’t plan to buy until you’ve spent a considerable time doing this. Price has nothing to do with your future satisfaction so don’t assume you’re going to have to buy a sleep number bed, tempurpedic or any other specific type. What works for someone else might be terrible for you. Also, there’s no correlation between price and satisfaction on this.

You need to spend at least 15 mins on each mattress that you’re considering…5 mins on stomach, 5 mins on back, 5 mins on side. Don’t feel weird doing this – this is a huge purchase, not just financially but more importantly, your choice will determine your sleep satisfaction and restfulness (or lack thereof).

Beds have incredible mark-up so you really need to bargain with the store, and not just a little, but A LOT. For example, after going to numerous sleep stores and doing what I’ve suggested above, we ended up at Sleep Train focused on buying a Simmons Beautyrest Black Viola model (it’s so recent that I remember the name). I think this model retailed for close to $4000. We ended up talking with the salesguy for a long time about it, and then my hubby and I went into our “good cop, bad cop” mode. Unfortunately, I always have to play bad cop. After the sales guy came down a few hundred dollars and threw in no sales tax, my hubby said, “let’s just buy it, we’ve been looking forever and we just need it”. I said, “yes, I want it, too, but I’m just not going to spend over $2000 on a bed.” Blah, blah, blah…this went on for some time. The guy tried to show us other beds for $2000, but my hubby and I insisted this was the only one we wanted. We then said that we were going to have to shop around a little more (which obviously we really didn’t want to do), unless the sales guy would be willing to accept $2000 right now, with tax and delivery included. He went over to his desk, called his manager, spent a lot of time working the numbers, but we ended up getting the deal, which shows just how much mark-up there is in these things. Who knows, maybe we didn’t even get the best deal we could’ve gotten, but the point is that there is at least 100% mark-up on these expensive beds.

The funny thing is that when the guy who delivered our bed was putting it in our bedroom, my husband made a comment about the mark-ups on beds, and the delivery guy told us that he gets a huge discount with the company, and he actually ordered a pricier model than ours and paid $400 with his company discount…so, maybe that’s what the bed actually costs the manufacturer. If so, we still clearly overpaid by buying the $4000 model for $2000. Anyway, it’s ridiculous! Also, with the housing slowdown, the bedding industry has been enormously impacted, and there are more deals to be had than ever.

Last point – make sure you go to a store that has a good return policy. Sleep Train lets you return the mattress for a credit towards another one within 60 days as long as you’ve used one of those whole mattress covers and there isn’t a single mark on it. We love ours and have no intention of getting another one, but it’s nice to know we have that option. I think Mattress Discounters and others have the same policy. Maybe it’s even the law, I don’t know.

A good night’s sleep is SO important, yet buying a mattress is such a ridiculously expensive and frustrating experience. You need fortitude, patience and persistence – good luck!!

[carli]

I have LOTS of recent experience with back pain and mattress-buying, and here’s what I found –

I had lower back pain most mornings for about a year. This may have been because I’m a long distance runner and love to run hilly areas, which can cause major backaches, but also I think our too-soft bed was causing some of it. Anyway, two things fixed it –

First, I went to a fantastic massage therapist who is a real pro at both sports injuries and just general knowledge about how the body works, and he told me that an incredible percentage of his clients have lower back pain, but after he gets them doing the following exercise, it goes away. The exercise is called the “superman” and here’s how you do it: While laying on your stomach on the floor with your head slightly raised, you slowly lift one arm at the same time as lifting the opposite leg. Lift only about 6-12 inches. You then lower both your arm and opposite leg and repeat on the other side. I do about 30 of these each morning, and it has made a world of difference. It’s extremely easy and you feel like it’s doing nothing, but the exercise really isolates the exact muscle group that causes lower back pain, strengthens it and eventually gets rid of the pain. For me, it only took a couple weeks of doing this. I had been doing a lot of other core work, but none of it worked like this exercise. jp, I realize this isn’t where your pain is, and I’m sorry it seems that yours may be a more complicated medical issue.

Even after the exercises got rid of the pain, we still realized we needed a new bed. I launched into major research mode and read Consumer Reports (they just did an article about how to buy a bed), looked all over the internet, talked w/friends, doctors, etc, etc. Here’s what I learned –

It is really important to go in to several bedding stores and lay on as many mattresses as you can. Nothing can replace the importance of trying and feeling what is best for you. Don’t plan to buy until you’ve spent a considerable time doing this. Price has nothing to do with your future satisfaction so don’t assume you’re going to have to buy a sleep number bed, tempurpedic or any other specific type. What works for someone else might be terrible for you. Also, there’s no correlation between price and satisfaction on this.

You need to spend at least 15 mins on each mattress that you’re considering…5 mins on stomach, 5 mins on back, 5 mins on side. Don’t feel weird doing this – this is a huge purchase, not just financially but more importantly, your choice will determine your sleep satisfaction and restfulness (or lack thereof).

Beds have incredible mark-up so you really need to bargain with the store, and not just a little, but A LOT. For example, after going to numerous sleep stores and doing what I’ve suggested above, we ended up at Sleep Train focused on buying a Simmons Beautyrest Black Viola model (it’s so recent that I remember the name). I think this model retailed for close to $4000. We ended up talking with the salesguy for a long time about it, and then my hubby and I went into our “good cop, bad cop” mode. Unfortunately, I always have to play bad cop. After the sales guy came down a few hundred dollars and threw in no sales tax, my hubby said, “let’s just buy it, we’ve been looking forever and we just need it”. I said, “yes, I want it, too, but I’m just not going to spend over $2000 on a bed.” Blah, blah, blah…this went on for some time. The guy tried to show us other beds for $2000, but my hubby and I insisted this was the only one we wanted. We then said that we were going to have to shop around a little more (which obviously we really didn’t want to do), unless the sales guy would be willing to accept $2000 right now, with tax and delivery included. He went over to his desk, called his manager, spent a lot of time working the numbers, but we ended up getting the deal, which shows just how much mark-up there is in these things. Who knows, maybe we didn’t even get the best deal we could’ve gotten, but the point is that there is at least 100% mark-up on these expensive beds.

The funny thing is that when the guy who delivered our bed was putting it in our bedroom, my husband made a comment about the mark-ups on beds, and the delivery guy told us that he gets a huge discount with the company, and he actually ordered a pricier model than ours and paid $400 with his company discount…so, maybe that’s what the bed actually costs the manufacturer. If so, we still clearly overpaid by buying the $4000 model for $2000. Anyway, it’s ridiculous! Also, with the housing slowdown, the bedding industry has been enormously impacted, and there are more deals to be had than ever.

Last point – make sure you go to a store that has a good return policy. Sleep Train lets you return the mattress for a credit towards another one within 60 days as long as you’ve used one of those whole mattress covers and there isn’t a single mark on it. We love ours and have no intention of getting another one, but it’s nice to know we have that option. I think Mattress Discounters and others have the same policy. Maybe it’s even the law, I don’t know.

A good night’s sleep is SO important, yet buying a mattress is such a ridiculously expensive and frustrating experience. You need fortitude, patience and persistence – good luck!!

[carli]

I have LOTS of recent experience with back pain and mattress-buying, and here’s what I found –

I had lower back pain most mornings for about a year. This may have been because I’m a long distance runner and love to run hilly areas, which can cause major backaches, but also I think our too-soft bed was causing some of it. Anyway, two things fixed it –

First, I went to a fantastic massage therapist who is a real pro at both sports injuries and just general knowledge about how the body works, and he told me that an incredible percentage of his clients have lower back pain, but after he gets them doing the following exercise, it goes away. The exercise is called the “superman” and here’s how you do it: While laying on your stomach on the floor with your head slightly raised, you slowly lift one arm at the same time as lifting the opposite leg. Lift only about 6-12 inches. You then lower both your arm and opposite leg and repeat on the other side. I do about 30 of these each morning, and it has made a world of difference. It’s extremely easy and you feel like it’s doing nothing, but the exercise really isolates the exact muscle group that causes lower back pain, strengthens it and eventually gets rid of the pain. For me, it only took a couple weeks of doing this. I had been doing a lot of other core work, but none of it worked like this exercise. jp, I realize this isn’t where your pain is, and I’m sorry it seems that yours may be a more complicated medical issue.

Even after the exercises got rid of the pain, we still realized we needed a new bed. I launched into major research mode and read Consumer Reports (they just did an article about how to buy a bed), looked all over the internet, talked w/friends, doctors, etc, etc. Here’s what I learned –

It is really important to go in to several bedding stores and lay on as many mattresses as you can. Nothing can replace the importance of trying and feeling what is best for you. Don’t plan to buy until you’ve spent a considerable time doing this. Price has nothing to do with your future satisfaction so don’t assume you’re going to have to buy a sleep number bed, tempurpedic or any other specific type. What works for someone else might be terrible for you. Also, there’s no correlation between price and satisfaction on this.

You need to spend at least 15 mins on each mattress that you’re considering…5 mins on stomach, 5 mins on back, 5 mins on side. Don’t feel weird doing this – this is a huge purchase, not just financially but more importantly, your choice will determine your sleep satisfaction and restfulness (or lack thereof).

Beds have incredible mark-up so you really need to bargain with the store, and not just a little, but A LOT. For example, after going to numerous sleep stores and doing what I’ve suggested above, we ended up at Sleep Train focused on buying a Simmons Beautyrest Black Viola model (it’s so recent that I remember the name). I think this model retailed for close to $4000. We ended up talking with the salesguy for a long time about it, and then my hubby and I went into our “good cop, bad cop” mode. Unfortunately, I always have to play bad cop. After the sales guy came down a few hundred dollars and threw in no sales tax, my hubby said, “let’s just buy it, we’ve been looking forever and we just need it”. I said, “yes, I want it, too, but I’m just not going to spend over $2000 on a bed.” Blah, blah, blah…this went on for some time. The guy tried to show us other beds for $2000, but my hubby and I insisted this was the only one we wanted. We then said that we were going to have to shop around a little more (which obviously we really didn’t want to do), unless the sales guy would be willing to accept $2000 right now, with tax and delivery included. He went over to his desk, called his manager, spent a lot of time working the numbers, but we ended up getting the deal, which shows just how much mark-up there is in these things. Who knows, maybe we didn’t even get the best deal we could’ve gotten, but the point is that there is at least 100% mark-up on these expensive beds.

The funny thing is that when the guy who delivered our bed was putting it in our bedroom, my husband made a comment about the mark-ups on beds, and the delivery guy told us that he gets a huge discount with the company, and he actually ordered a pricier model than ours and paid $400 with his company discount…so, maybe that’s what the bed actually costs the manufacturer. If so, we still clearly overpaid by buying the $4000 model for $2000. Anyway, it’s ridiculous! Also, with the housing slowdown, the bedding industry has been enormously impacted, and there are more deals to be had than ever.

Last point – make sure you go to a store that has a good return policy. Sleep Train lets you return the mattress for a credit towards another one within 60 days as long as you’ve used one of those whole mattress covers and there isn’t a single mark on it. We love ours and have no intention of getting another one, but it’s nice to know we have that option. I think Mattress Discounters and others have the same policy. Maybe it’s even the law, I don’t know.

A good night’s sleep is SO important, yet buying a mattress is such a ridiculously expensive and frustrating experience. You need fortitude, patience and persistence – good luck!!

[Author]

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