[carli]

I read this NY Times article about Trump pushing Asian Americans (who’ve replaced Hispanics as the fastest growing racial group in the U.S.) into “Democratic arms” and thought of flu, AN and my Asian American friends…so true! -http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/trump-asian-american-voters.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0.

[carli]

I think Encinitas/Cardiff area is hard to beat these days. Their downtown areas are more vibrant than ever yet they also have a pretty good grasp on development/planning. The beaches are some of the best in north county; Moonlight is super family-friendly with its little playground and snackbar. Both towns have great libraries (esp Encinitas library) and park and rec programs. Both have excellent elementary schools and are part of the SDUHSD middle and high school district, which includes the top performing middle and high schools in San Diego.

In two years (even now) it may be impossible to find anything west of 5 for a million, but there are some great neighborhoods just east of the 5 in both Encinitas and Cardiff.

I also love Solana Beach but would give Encinitas/Cardiff area (east of the 5) the edge for better affordability and family friendliness.

We moved here from the east coast 10+ years ago and chose Del Mar, which at the time looked like the best bet for schools, beach/family life, having a town w/character, etc. Unfortunately, the Del Mar downtown has sort of stuck with overpriced shops and restaurants catering to high end tourists while the towns to our north have evolved into more fun places attracting younger people and families.

Good luck!

[carli]

[quote=bearishgurl]

How are 8-12 people? residing “part-time” in a studio/1 br apt just barely inside the the US (~12 miles) considered “residents” who are ostensibly eligible for taxpayer-funded services, such as those provided by your organization? Are all those people living in the same apt as your “minor-clients” themselves minors (except the lessee)? If not, how many other adults are typically sharing a “tiny” apt with mom and kids?

Aside from the free breakfasts and lunches these daily border crossing students get out of the school districts of border counties (Federal food aid), it seems they may also be “eligible” for a plethora of other aid (even “professional aid” that persons such as yourself render to them) even if the parent they are presumably residing part-time with on this side of the border is undocumented themselves.

When you visit your charges at these “tiny” apts, did you ever notice whether your “clients” actually sleep there … or not? Have you actually seen their bed, where their clothes are hung and where they keep their personal effects?

Or do you usually meet them at a neutral location, such as their school? Inquiring minds want to know how YOU know that your “clients” are … beyond a shadow of a doubt … actually residents of the US.

Thank you in advance of your response.[/quote]

Yes, BG, I am sure they are living in that apartment, as part of my role is to check on the living situation. But that’s quite a long list of other irrelevant concerns and questions you have.

Funny that you managed to come up with stuff like “8-12 people living in a studio/1BR apt”…feel free to make up your own specifics, once again. Certainly provides a clue as to how you also felt comfortable making up the wild ass claim about a whole 25% of our schools, teachers and administrators being totally unnecessary because of non-resident fraudulent students. Remember that one? Yep, I’m still waiting for any back-up on that too.

Oh well, maybe in your next post you’ll finally provide some real data. Hope so, as I prefer to engage in a productive, interesting debate.

Until then, happy 4th of July! I’m looking forward to a great weekend celebrating this wonderful country and its opportunities and freedom for ALL! Enjoy! 🙂

[carli]

[quote=Essbee]I’ll add one data point. 20 years ago, during college, I had a friend who had attended Bonita Vista High School in Chula Vista. One day, while hanging out, I met one of his former high school friends. Sure enough, that friend did indeed live in Tijuana (with his entire family) but had crossed the border every day to attend high school in the US. He openly admitted this.

I couldn’t understand how this was “legal”, considering that he wasn’t a U.S. resident. Obviously, it wasn’t legal. Basically, it was the phenomenon that BG has been talking about. I was kind of shocked by it all.[/quote]

I’ll add a counter data point, FWIW.

I spend a couple hours/week in Logan Heights/Barrio Logan, where I’m a court appointed advocate (pro bono) for certain at-risk kids, which I’ve been doing for years. Although I’d love to make my appointments w/these kids and their families on weekends, when it’s more convenient for me, I usually cannot because they’re in Tijuana w/family.

Many of these families have a parent or guardian (usually, it’s the mom, as in my current case) who works here and lives in an apartment w/the kids while they go to the neighborhood school. But on weekends, they all go to TJ to see the other parent, grandparents, cousins, etc. It’s not like it’s a formal arrangement, it’s just that there are usually a bunch of family members living in a (tiny) apartment here, working and going to school, and then there are a bunch of family members also living in TJ. They’re trying to make a living and their kids are along for the ride, going to school in the city where the parent works. Sometimes the dad is around here working but frequently he’s in TJ. This seems to be the way it works w/their neighbors, too. They’re crossing back and forth at least weekly. But they’re all still legal residents of the school area as they have an apartment here.

So that’s just another data point. But unlike BG, I don’t want to extrapolate my personal experience into a broad claim about student residency fraud. For that, I prefer to see actual data. And I’m still waiting for BG to support her claim that 25% of schools, teachers & administrators are unneeded due to this issue.

But I have nothing against (and actually enjoy) anecdotes, personal stories and single data points, and am only troubled when they’re used as substitutes for meaningful data.

[carli]

[quote=bearishgurl]Try to observe the percentage of license plates of parked cars which have Baja, CA license plates. (Of course, this does not account for all the Mexican students dropped off and picked up daily or who ride the trolley and bus from and to the the border every day, but it’s a start.) Until you see it with your own eyes and hear it with your own ears, you won’t be able to truly understand the depth and breadth of the problem. [/quote]

BG, your personal experience is clearly a powerful force in influencing your opinions, but it is not a valid substitute for data, for obvious reasons. You chose to cite a very specific number – 25% – and you stated that we are spending “billions” on this problem. Please cite any data or research at all that supports your claims. Thank you.

[carli]

[quote=bearishgurl]carli, the “academic paper” you posted on statistics on children of undocumented immigrants:

http://dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/731/docs/chirla_v10_small.pdf

… mainly discusses CA RESIDENT children of undocumented immigrants in CA. Ex: children of lettuce pickers in Salinas, children of garment workers in LA, children of beef and poultry workers in San Joaquin, Merced and Fresno Counties, etc.

The paper has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the subject I brought up – which only affects San Diego and Imperial Counties. That is … foreign children and US Citizen NON-RESIDENT children who live OUTSIDE the US crossing the border every day to attend US schools![/quote]

Read it again, BG.

[carli]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=carli]. . . I’m sure you’ve noticed the motto of Rich’s Piggington forum listed at the bottom of the page, “In God We Trust. Everyone Else Bring Data.” I believe you and I fall under the “Everyone Else” category. :-)[/quote]carli, I have been out of town all week. I DID post links but you failed to read the links (especially the CA links) and watch the videos. The kids themselves interviewed in the links I provided stated that there is an underground network at their SD South County school where they try to alert each other if any of the other border crossing student’s residency is questioned by their school (usually triggered by poor attendance and punctuality, falling asleep in class, etc). In one link, the protagonist clearly stated that he “thought” there were 100 students at his (Chula Vista) high school who reside in MX (likely a lower estimate than reality) and that he had to camp on the floor of his “aunt’s” house for a month when he was tipped off by a fellow border-crossing student that he might have a home visit from the school to inquire about his residency. (This is not uncommon, btw). My OWN kids have even told me numerous times over the years that dozens of their classmates admitted to them that they live in MX! Even when they were in elementary school and I asked, “why don’t you invite xyz to your birthday party,” they would respond, “Oh, he/she lives in TJ and won’t be able to come.”

SUHSD administrators admitted in one link that I provided here that they had no way of verifying the information given to them by prospective or continuing students’ parent (or adults pretending to be parents) and had to depend on the addresses and “guardianship affidavits” filed to establish residency as being the truth.

The reason I posted links as old as 25 years here is because I wanted to emphasize how long this charade has actually been going on! (It’s actually been going on as far back as I remember but it is much more “lucrative” today for a MX student to attend school in the US because the differences in the quality between the public schools in the two countries is markedly greater now than it was in the ’70’s and ’80’s.) In any case, most of the links I posted were from the last four years.

You’re another one who needs to flick the flies off your starched cuffs from your lofty seat in your NIMBY tower (30+ miles away from the int’l border?) and put on your glasses. I brought data. I ALWAYS bring data. I have had hundreds of folders of bookmarks FULL of data for YEARS in one of my browsers. If you choose not to READ, WATCH and LEARN, that’s on YOU!

Just like with the serious problems CA residents have with Covered CA and Medi-Cal under the ACA and the dozens of links I furnished for your information on that thread, you don’t and didn’t read any of them because you really don’t want to know. Why?? Because these issues don’t affect YOU or YOUR kids. Plain and simple.[/quote]

Ok, got it, now you’ve added some weird personal attacks about my family and me to your false claims, anecdotes, and previously posted articles about the plight of border kids trying to get an education. Nothing you’ve provided qualifies as actual data. Show me a study or anything that could be considered factual that supports your claims.

Remember, you claimed we are spending “a fortune” and “billions” on the situation and that we’re paying for 25% more schools, teachers and administrators in South County than necessary due to non-resident children. But I can’t find anything to support that. Can you?

I’ll wait. And until then, I’m not interested in going around and around so you can spout more hate about immigration and make uninformed, nasty statements about my family and me. Thank you.

[carli]

[quote=bearishgurl] It costs these states a FORTUNE to educate this never-ending northbound flow of students. These saved billions (from no longer voluntarily educating tens of thousands foreign students in our public schools within border counties) should instead be spent on CA’s crumbling infrastructure.[/quote]

I’m more interested in the original topic of this thread but noticed BG is appearing again to re-ignite her rant about children of immigrants. BG, I was hoping you’d finally bring data this time, but sad to see it’s just more false claims and fear-mongering. 🙁

All those media links you provided do not do your point justice. Did you read them? Did you really mean to post an article about immigration from 1991…do you realize how dramatically the facts and issues surrounding immigration have changed since then? I didn’t have the patience to click on every one, but the articles you posted about CA do not prove your point at all. The only thing those articles provide is a restatement of the issue we know exists – kids come over the border every day to get an education. Did you mean to do that, because the issue I was hoping you’d finally prove is not that it happens (duh) but how many of these children are not residents of the U.S. and/or what is the impact to our economy?

Several of those articles state many are U.S. citizens and live in both SD and TJ. So where are your numbers? Where is the evidence that we would save “billions” and a “fortune” if we didn’t educate the kids crossing back and forth between border communities? You’re not citing any facts, just your own opinions, apparently meant to stir up anger and resentment.

The last time you were griping about this, you wrote these kids are somehow requiring us to operate at least 25% more schools in South County and costing 25% more in teacher and administrator salaries. In response, I cited the 2010 USC study (http://dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/731/docs/chirla_v10_small.pdf) showing that actually only 13% of California’s children are those of undocumented Latino immigrants. To that, I got deafening silence. Unfortunately, you never responded. So where did your 25% come from? I’m genuinely interested and am still waiting. As you may recall, the USC study’s other point was that it found undocumented Latino immigrants are contributing $2.2 billion in cheap labor to our local economy. That seems to be the opposite of your most recent claim that their kids cost us a “FORTUNE” or “billions.”

I’m sure you’ve noticed the motto of Rich’s Piggington forum listed at the bottom of the page, “In God We Trust. Everyone Else Bring Data.” I believe you and I fall under the “Everyone Else” category. 🙂

[carli]

[quote=livinincali]
Thirdly why aren’t there consumer protection laws that apply to medical services. If you go to the mechanic they have to give you a written estimate of the price. They can’t just demand that you pay them $2,000 to get your car back. Why aren’t medical providers held to this same regard when it comes to routine services. I understand emergency situations are somewhat different.[/quote]

I feel your pain, I really do. One of my kids had to have a surgical procedure a few years ago and we had a plan with a $10,000 deductible (this was before the ACA and I was consulting so had no employer-sponsored insurance). Since the surgeon had admitting privileges at two hospitals, I thought I’d call around to find out rates from each one. Ha! That never happened. Both hospitals said there was no possible way to give me even a ballpark idea of how much we’d pay for the surgery and associated costs like anesthesia. I asked if they could treat us as a cash patient since our 10k deductible basically made us uninsured for this procedure and even though they were willing to do that, the billing office told me they had no idea if the negotiated rate our carrier (BCBS) had for the surgery would be cheaper than the hospital’s cash rate. Part of the reason was that it was proprietary info (treating their negotiated rates like a closely guarded secret) but mostly they said their systems were not set up to estimate costs before a procedure. They said we needed to specify up front if we wanted to be treated as a cash patient or wanted them to submit to BCBS, where the charges would be adjudicated according to the BCBS negotiated fee structure, and then we’d pay our 10k share according to this fee schedule. There was no way to find out which was a better deal for us as consumers. We could only wait and see after the surgery the charges that were spit out of their system.

Crazy that the consumer just has to blindly go in to have surgery without any idea of the charges. We’re lucky that we’re in a position to cover any costs and had obviously enrolled in the high deductible health plan with eyes wide open to our risk, but for many, that kind of plan was all they could afford at the time (pre-ACA). Even now, many people face the same issue. For those people, trying to do the right thing by being insured, it’s a huge blow to be handed a bill for thousands of dollars with no ability to predict or budget beforehand. Many surgeries, although medically necessary, are technically elective so someone in a different financial position than ours may have opted to put it off until they could budget for it or had a different insurance plan. But again, no one would have been able to give them the tools to arrive at an estimate.

I’ve been in the health insurance/managed care industry a long time, and for many years the industry buzz has been all about empowering consumers to make better/wiser/more efficient health care decisions, yet the health delivery system does not have the tools or more accurately, is not willing to use the tools on behalf of the consumer, to get us all the way there. This is something that the ACA will help do but getting there will be a long time coming, in tiny baby steps.

[carli]

[quote=joec]On the medical front, there were some articles in the SD Union Tribune or LA times, I forget which was saying how some tests when paid with no insurance cash/rates were like $20, but with the crooked Blue Cross, was like $70 or something or over a hundred for a few simple tests since that was the “negotiated” rate. The health care operations and insurances are just scamming everyone else and over inflating a lot of medical costs IMO.[/quote]

I’m not one to defend hospitals or insurance companies in general, but part of the reason that hospitals charge their uninsured/cash patients less than their negotiated rates w/insurers is not because they’re being kind or feel they can gouge consumers who have insurance, but because they can write this deficit off. In other words, we’re all paying for it. And to make matters worse, built in to the rates that hospitals and other providers negotiate with the insurers (which show up in our premiums) is this write-off. So it all comes around in several ways. But at least the Affordable Care Act caps insurers’ MCR (Medical Cost Ratio), which stipulates how much profit over medical and admin expenses they can take.

[carli]

[quote=livinincali]
It will be a good thing in the longer term but talking about 1 or 2 years when it initially happens will result in a technical recession. Spending on medical care is included in GDP. It will take a bit of time for businesses to make changes due to the reduced cost and will take awhile to show up in GDP.[/quote]

Livinincali, I’m not clear on how you’re defining the medical monopolies mentioned in your last post. I assume you’re thinking if Trump (don’t know how) could instantly dissolve the U.S.’s business models of medical care delivery, it would have a significant impact on the economy. Might be so, but that involves waving a huge magic wand. I don’t think Big Pharma and others would go down without a gigantic multi-year fight. And they’re very well supported by the Republicans so don’t know who would help Trump on that one.

The Moody’s analysis addresses the most influential drivers of the economy, and they’re reporting it’s going to be more than the “technical recession” you predict if Trump is elected. NY Times posted this article today about the Moody’s analysis:

“If all the [Trump’s] policies were put into effect, the report said, the country would be plunged into a recession beginning in early 2018 and remain there into 2020.

“This would be an unusually lengthy recession — even longer than the Great Recession,” the authors write.

Trade would probably be the first area to be affected, Mr. Zandi said. Mr. Trump has proposed a 45 percent tariff on Chinese imports and a 35 percent tariff on imports from Mexico. This would drive the price of consumer goods higher, and both countries would probably impose in-kind tariffs, Moody’s predicted.

‘That would do a significant amount of damage pretty quickly — setting off something akin to a trade war,’ Mr. Zandi said.

Mr. Trump’s tax and spending proposals would have a longer-term effect. With few spending cuts, his planned tax cuts, which would reduce federal revenues by roughly $9.5 trillion over a decade, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, would produce substantial budget deficits.

‘That would be a pretty significant corrosive on investment, productivity and then G.D.P.,’ Mr. Zandi said.”

Curious to see how Trump responds to this, if at all. Problem is that his supporters apparently prefer to avoid educating themselves on any of Trump’s proposals, or maybe it’s that they don’t even want to know, as the facts would spoil their rhetoric.

BTW, I’m also looking forward to reading Moody’s analysis of Hillary’s proposals, which the authors say is coming next.

[carli]

Wall St Journal reported today on Moody’s recent analysis of Trump’s economic proposals, saying their report “is the first that attempts to quantify the cumulative economic benefits and costs of Mr. Trump’s proposals on taxes, trade, immigration and spending.”

Bottom line? WSJ writes the Moody’s report “determines that full adoption of those [Trump’s] policies would sharply reduce economic output during his first term and reduce employment by 3.5 million jobs. Under almost any scenario, the report says, ‘the U.S. economy will be more isolated and diminished.'”

Also, “The report singles out [Trump’s] trade and immigration policies as the most detrimental to the economy in the short run because they could sharply boost labor and goods prices at a time when there’s less slack in the labor market.”

Wow, what a dealmaker Trump is. A dealmaker of very bad deals for Americans.

[carli]

[quote=flu]Careful Carli. Despite presenting concrete data, get ready for the next rebuttal, after a few hours of Google searching, in which what you wrote will be picked apart word for word, in a long ass response that will focus on one or two words you said….that will serve as the basis of the next round of argument, that will have absolutely nothing to do with what you said, or in a galaxy’s length near the topic you just responded to. Or it will be a long ass response with one quoted article that will attempt to discredit the real data you just provided, that will require you to wear your tin foil hat. Get your tin foil hat ready…I am already wearing mine.[/quote]

Lol flu, bracing myself now. Wanna take bets on what she’ll reference? I’ll guess it will be the north county coastal area or Canyon Crest Academy, my kids’ high school, neither of which have anything whatsoever to do with current topics yet somehow manage to get thrown in at random.

[carli]

Today is World Refugee Day. Here’s a quick message from Meb Keflezighi, San Diego resident, world class marathoner, and a super nice guy: https://twitter.com/runmeb/status/744977284445044738

As he says in this video clip, “Thanks to welcoming people, I can chase my dreams.”

Meb arrived in San Diego as a young boy with his family from Eritrea, fleeing persecution. He’s represented the U.S. in two Olympics (bringing home the silver medal in 2004) and is about to represent the U.S. again in Rio this summer at age 41. He also won the NYC marathon in 2009, the Boston Marathon in 2014 and countless other marathons/races. He’s one of the most inspirational people you’d ever meet, comes from a family of 10 siblings, including doctors and other successful professionals. The family arrived, as many refugees do, with next to nothing, but the parents emphasized education and work ethic and they’ve contributed way more than they ever took from our country.

Good thing the U.S. was not yet afraid of refugees from African countries when the Keflezighi family appeared at our doorstep after literally years of struggles to get here. Welcoming people who are fleeing persecution for better opportunities is the core of who we are as a country.

BG, how and why did your ancestors come here?

[carli]

[quote=bearishgurl]We’re paying to operate at least 25% more public schools than we need to in South County and paying the (unnecessary) salaries of 25% more teachers and administrators so we can spread all the non-resident students around and provide an (expensive) K-12 education to students actually living in another country! This practice has the effect of completely filling up all these schools in older areas which would otherwise be closed due to lack of a sufficient student body actually residing within their attendance boundaries.[/quote]

BG – I, too, would really like to see your data supporting this 25% claim. And since the vast majority of CA public education is funded at the state and federal level, not local level, we’re all paying for it, not just South County residents. Of course I believe there should be accurate accounting for residency and school attendance, but if these kids who live on both sides of the border are getting – egads! – an education, sorry, but that isn’t going to upset me too much.

It’s already been proven that their parents who travel across the border to work contribute more to our CA economy than they take. There was a big study done at USC a few years ago that stated undocumented Latino immigrants are underpaid by about 9.5% compared to similar documented Latino workers. This amount contributes $2.2 billion in cheap labor to the CA economy and of course, if they were legal, they’d contribute even more by way of taxes. That same study showed that about 13% of California’s children are those of undocumented Latino immigrants. 13% is a far cry from 25%, even if many of them are living in South County. http://dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/731/docs/chirla_v10_small.pdf

[Author]

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