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July 21, 2008 at 9:33 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243678July 21, 2008 at 9:33 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243820
Borat
ParticipantI am an avowed conservative, but even I will admit to being infuriated when I see how those that occupy that stratum have ginned the system ruthlessly. Or as the Golden Rule says: “Those with the gold, make the rules”.
Hahaha, that’s the real golden rule isn’t it? I guess what really irks me the most is that these tactics are the same ones used in Central and South America to keep a few wealthy families in control of the whole show across generations. They exploit the high earning productive middle classes (including many entrepeneurs) with high taxes, and then they use those tax revenues to give sops to the poor (healthcare, education, housing projects, etc…) to keep them from revolting. Eventually they begin using those tax revenues to fund a police state to keep everyone in line. We are seeing the beginnings of this here and I don’t see it getting any better. And of course they control the media so they use that to pit the poor against the middle classes while the super-rich float high above the fray…
July 21, 2008 at 9:33 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243828ParticipantI am an avowed conservative, but even I will admit to being infuriated when I see how those that occupy that stratum have ginned the system ruthlessly. Or as the Golden Rule says: “Those with the gold, make the rules”.
Hahaha, that’s the real golden rule isn’t it? I guess what really irks me the most is that these tactics are the same ones used in Central and South America to keep a few wealthy families in control of the whole show across generations. They exploit the high earning productive middle classes (including many entrepeneurs) with high taxes, and then they use those tax revenues to give sops to the poor (healthcare, education, housing projects, etc…) to keep them from revolting. Eventually they begin using those tax revenues to fund a police state to keep everyone in line. We are seeing the beginnings of this here and I don’t see it getting any better. And of course they control the media so they use that to pit the poor against the middle classes while the super-rich float high above the fray…
July 21, 2008 at 9:33 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243882ParticipantI am an avowed conservative, but even I will admit to being infuriated when I see how those that occupy that stratum have ginned the system ruthlessly. Or as the Golden Rule says: “Those with the gold, make the rules”.
Hahaha, that’s the real golden rule isn’t it? I guess what really irks me the most is that these tactics are the same ones used in Central and South America to keep a few wealthy families in control of the whole show across generations. They exploit the high earning productive middle classes (including many entrepeneurs) with high taxes, and then they use those tax revenues to give sops to the poor (healthcare, education, housing projects, etc…) to keep them from revolting. Eventually they begin using those tax revenues to fund a police state to keep everyone in line. We are seeing the beginnings of this here and I don’t see it getting any better. And of course they control the media so they use that to pit the poor against the middle classes while the super-rich float high above the fray…
July 21, 2008 at 9:33 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243890ParticipantI am an avowed conservative, but even I will admit to being infuriated when I see how those that occupy that stratum have ginned the system ruthlessly. Or as the Golden Rule says: “Those with the gold, make the rules”.
Hahaha, that’s the real golden rule isn’t it? I guess what really irks me the most is that these tactics are the same ones used in Central and South America to keep a few wealthy families in control of the whole show across generations. They exploit the high earning productive middle classes (including many entrepeneurs) with high taxes, and then they use those tax revenues to give sops to the poor (healthcare, education, housing projects, etc…) to keep them from revolting. Eventually they begin using those tax revenues to fund a police state to keep everyone in line. We are seeing the beginnings of this here and I don’t see it getting any better. And of course they control the media so they use that to pit the poor against the middle classes while the super-rich float high above the fray…
July 21, 2008 at 9:14 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243648ParticipantThe data clearly shows the rich get raped. How you could see the opposite is interesting.
John, see my earlier post about the way the definition of “rich” changes depending on who you’re talking to. You’re using definition 2 of “rich” which actually means middle-class to upper-middle-class. By that definition we are in agreement, those people are getting raped with taxes (and I’m in that group!) However, the people that run the show, the people who engineered the Bush tax cuts and the financial institution bailouts and on and on don’t define “rich” in the same way, they use definition 1 (most if not all income earned through passive investment). They are saving tons of money with these tax cuts and we know that for sure by the fact that they’re funding articles like this in the WSJ.
Oh, and here are some examples of what I would consider productive jobs:
* Entrepeneur/business owner
* Attorney
* Doctor
* Engineer
* Sanitation worker
* Welder
* Truck driver
* Soldier
* Waitress
* Professional athlete
* Artist/Musician
* Firefighter/Policeman
* Biotech scientist
* House rehabber/flipper/real estate investor
* PlumberBasically, any actual job or profession I would consider to be productive work.
July 21, 2008 at 9:14 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243790ParticipantThe data clearly shows the rich get raped. How you could see the opposite is interesting.
John, see my earlier post about the way the definition of “rich” changes depending on who you’re talking to. You’re using definition 2 of “rich” which actually means middle-class to upper-middle-class. By that definition we are in agreement, those people are getting raped with taxes (and I’m in that group!) However, the people that run the show, the people who engineered the Bush tax cuts and the financial institution bailouts and on and on don’t define “rich” in the same way, they use definition 1 (most if not all income earned through passive investment). They are saving tons of money with these tax cuts and we know that for sure by the fact that they’re funding articles like this in the WSJ.
Oh, and here are some examples of what I would consider productive jobs:
* Entrepeneur/business owner
* Attorney
* Doctor
* Engineer
* Sanitation worker
* Welder
* Truck driver
* Soldier
* Waitress
* Professional athlete
* Artist/Musician
* Firefighter/Policeman
* Biotech scientist
* House rehabber/flipper/real estate investor
* PlumberBasically, any actual job or profession I would consider to be productive work.
July 21, 2008 at 9:14 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243798ParticipantThe data clearly shows the rich get raped. How you could see the opposite is interesting.
John, see my earlier post about the way the definition of “rich” changes depending on who you’re talking to. You’re using definition 2 of “rich” which actually means middle-class to upper-middle-class. By that definition we are in agreement, those people are getting raped with taxes (and I’m in that group!) However, the people that run the show, the people who engineered the Bush tax cuts and the financial institution bailouts and on and on don’t define “rich” in the same way, they use definition 1 (most if not all income earned through passive investment). They are saving tons of money with these tax cuts and we know that for sure by the fact that they’re funding articles like this in the WSJ.
Oh, and here are some examples of what I would consider productive jobs:
* Entrepeneur/business owner
* Attorney
* Doctor
* Engineer
* Sanitation worker
* Welder
* Truck driver
* Soldier
* Waitress
* Professional athlete
* Artist/Musician
* Firefighter/Policeman
* Biotech scientist
* House rehabber/flipper/real estate investor
* PlumberBasically, any actual job or profession I would consider to be productive work.
July 21, 2008 at 9:14 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243852ParticipantThe data clearly shows the rich get raped. How you could see the opposite is interesting.
John, see my earlier post about the way the definition of “rich” changes depending on who you’re talking to. You’re using definition 2 of “rich” which actually means middle-class to upper-middle-class. By that definition we are in agreement, those people are getting raped with taxes (and I’m in that group!) However, the people that run the show, the people who engineered the Bush tax cuts and the financial institution bailouts and on and on don’t define “rich” in the same way, they use definition 1 (most if not all income earned through passive investment). They are saving tons of money with these tax cuts and we know that for sure by the fact that they’re funding articles like this in the WSJ.
Oh, and here are some examples of what I would consider productive jobs:
* Entrepeneur/business owner
* Attorney
* Doctor
* Engineer
* Sanitation worker
* Welder
* Truck driver
* Soldier
* Waitress
* Professional athlete
* Artist/Musician
* Firefighter/Policeman
* Biotech scientist
* House rehabber/flipper/real estate investor
* PlumberBasically, any actual job or profession I would consider to be productive work.
July 21, 2008 at 9:14 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243859ParticipantThe data clearly shows the rich get raped. How you could see the opposite is interesting.
John, see my earlier post about the way the definition of “rich” changes depending on who you’re talking to. You’re using definition 2 of “rich” which actually means middle-class to upper-middle-class. By that definition we are in agreement, those people are getting raped with taxes (and I’m in that group!) However, the people that run the show, the people who engineered the Bush tax cuts and the financial institution bailouts and on and on don’t define “rich” in the same way, they use definition 1 (most if not all income earned through passive investment). They are saving tons of money with these tax cuts and we know that for sure by the fact that they’re funding articles like this in the WSJ.
Oh, and here are some examples of what I would consider productive jobs:
* Entrepeneur/business owner
* Attorney
* Doctor
* Engineer
* Sanitation worker
* Welder
* Truck driver
* Soldier
* Waitress
* Professional athlete
* Artist/Musician
* Firefighter/Policeman
* Biotech scientist
* House rehabber/flipper/real estate investor
* PlumberBasically, any actual job or profession I would consider to be productive work.
July 21, 2008 at 8:42 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243636ParticipantThe “new rich” those that were born with nothing got rich by working hard. You can’t get rich starting from nothing without busting your ass.
Sure, no one here is arguing otherwise. If you start with nothing and want to become rich, you’re going to have to work hard, especially considering all of the taxes you’re going to have to pay on your way to the top.
When rich people get incentives it causes them to work harder, not less.
Again, it depends on your definition of “rich”. The only truly rich people earn all of their money from passive investments, so they’re not doing any productive work anyway. Give them tax breaks and they’ll continue not working — they’ll just make more money doing it.
People who work for others have no way of understanding this.
What does that have to do with anything?
The data is what it is and the data shows our system punishes the most productive members of our system.
I agree 100%. What the data show is that the middle and upper-middle classes are carrying more than their fair share of the load, and that their load is increasing. Note that you won’t see any WSJ articles like this that look at the statistics of those whose income is derived from passive investments rather than productive labor, because it would show a very different picture; one of the main reasons that the WSJ exists is to make sure that we don’t get to see that picture.
July 21, 2008 at 8:42 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243780ParticipantThe “new rich” those that were born with nothing got rich by working hard. You can’t get rich starting from nothing without busting your ass.
Sure, no one here is arguing otherwise. If you start with nothing and want to become rich, you’re going to have to work hard, especially considering all of the taxes you’re going to have to pay on your way to the top.
When rich people get incentives it causes them to work harder, not less.
Again, it depends on your definition of “rich”. The only truly rich people earn all of their money from passive investments, so they’re not doing any productive work anyway. Give them tax breaks and they’ll continue not working — they’ll just make more money doing it.
People who work for others have no way of understanding this.
What does that have to do with anything?
The data is what it is and the data shows our system punishes the most productive members of our system.
I agree 100%. What the data show is that the middle and upper-middle classes are carrying more than their fair share of the load, and that their load is increasing. Note that you won’t see any WSJ articles like this that look at the statistics of those whose income is derived from passive investments rather than productive labor, because it would show a very different picture; one of the main reasons that the WSJ exists is to make sure that we don’t get to see that picture.
July 21, 2008 at 8:42 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243786ParticipantThe “new rich” those that were born with nothing got rich by working hard. You can’t get rich starting from nothing without busting your ass.
Sure, no one here is arguing otherwise. If you start with nothing and want to become rich, you’re going to have to work hard, especially considering all of the taxes you’re going to have to pay on your way to the top.
When rich people get incentives it causes them to work harder, not less.
Again, it depends on your definition of “rich”. The only truly rich people earn all of their money from passive investments, so they’re not doing any productive work anyway. Give them tax breaks and they’ll continue not working — they’ll just make more money doing it.
People who work for others have no way of understanding this.
What does that have to do with anything?
The data is what it is and the data shows our system punishes the most productive members of our system.
I agree 100%. What the data show is that the middle and upper-middle classes are carrying more than their fair share of the load, and that their load is increasing. Note that you won’t see any WSJ articles like this that look at the statistics of those whose income is derived from passive investments rather than productive labor, because it would show a very different picture; one of the main reasons that the WSJ exists is to make sure that we don’t get to see that picture.
July 21, 2008 at 8:42 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243842ParticipantThe “new rich” those that were born with nothing got rich by working hard. You can’t get rich starting from nothing without busting your ass.
Sure, no one here is arguing otherwise. If you start with nothing and want to become rich, you’re going to have to work hard, especially considering all of the taxes you’re going to have to pay on your way to the top.
When rich people get incentives it causes them to work harder, not less.
Again, it depends on your definition of “rich”. The only truly rich people earn all of their money from passive investments, so they’re not doing any productive work anyway. Give them tax breaks and they’ll continue not working — they’ll just make more money doing it.
People who work for others have no way of understanding this.
What does that have to do with anything?
The data is what it is and the data shows our system punishes the most productive members of our system.
I agree 100%. What the data show is that the middle and upper-middle classes are carrying more than their fair share of the load, and that their load is increasing. Note that you won’t see any WSJ articles like this that look at the statistics of those whose income is derived from passive investments rather than productive labor, because it would show a very different picture; one of the main reasons that the WSJ exists is to make sure that we don’t get to see that picture.
July 21, 2008 at 8:42 AM in reply to: Off Topic: “Their Fair Share” Taxes paid by the “Rich” #243850ParticipantThe “new rich” those that were born with nothing got rich by working hard. You can’t get rich starting from nothing without busting your ass.
Sure, no one here is arguing otherwise. If you start with nothing and want to become rich, you’re going to have to work hard, especially considering all of the taxes you’re going to have to pay on your way to the top.
When rich people get incentives it causes them to work harder, not less.
Again, it depends on your definition of “rich”. The only truly rich people earn all of their money from passive investments, so they’re not doing any productive work anyway. Give them tax breaks and they’ll continue not working — they’ll just make more money doing it.
People who work for others have no way of understanding this.
What does that have to do with anything?
The data is what it is and the data shows our system punishes the most productive members of our system.
I agree 100%. What the data show is that the middle and upper-middle classes are carrying more than their fair share of the load, and that their load is increasing. Note that you won’t see any WSJ articles like this that look at the statistics of those whose income is derived from passive investments rather than productive labor, because it would show a very different picture; one of the main reasons that the WSJ exists is to make sure that we don’t get to see that picture.
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