You cannot have it both ways

[savedbypigs]

I agree with Bobby and Patiently, and disagree that the “intent” of a nonrecourse loan is to provide the buyer an out only in the event of hardship or catastrophic event. Legally, a nonrecourse loan provides the debtor the choice of either paying off the debt or forfeiting the property. Thus, at all times, a nonrecourse transaction provides the obligor the option to return the property to the creditor in total satisfaction of the obligation. This is not an amorphous concept that applies only in certain circumstances, nor is it any secret in the banking/mortgage industry.

Thus, in a nonrecourse situation, it is entirely incumbent upon the creditor to ensure that the collateral protecting the obligation is sufficient. While it certainly may be foolhardy to purchase property beyond one’s means, from a legal perspective the sole responsibility for loss falls upon the party loaning money without adequate security. The person walking away from a nonrecourse loan that has gone upside down is merely exercising his/her legal rights under the contract.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

What has to change is people’s attitudes. If you enter into an obligation honor it, do not look for loopholes to weasel out of it. As a midwesterner by birth, it is something I see time and time again having lived in CA now for 26 years. Be it a wife, a dog, a kid, as soon as something falls out of favor on a short term basis too many look for the exits. Why not return to a time when a man’s handshake meant something. I personally would be the first person to continue to pay my mortgage even if there was a way out during a huge value drop, why? Because that is the agreement I made at the time for a 30 yr commitment. It is not my neighbors fault, the lenders fault, George Bush’s fault, if my house drops in value. IT IT MINE even though I do not care. Daytrading houses has never been a long term viable business and never will be.

I do not look to blame someone else for my decisions EVER. Anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves. I would also venture to guess there are few who do that who ever become wealthy, it is just a mindset. Focus on being successful at what you do, not on how to take advantage of someone else. Root for good things to happen to others, not bad things to make you feel better about your own situation.

Surely there have been situations where lenders have done some terrible things, and I have no sympathy for them either. However, you have to accept that the PPT is doing what they are doing for the overall good, and a few scoundrels are going to be saved. Do not spend negative energy on this, it is how the world has always worked, and will always work in the future.

I have several good friends with 7 figure new worths, and not one of them would try and take advantage of a bank in this fashion. They do utilize tax and other business loopholes etc.. but that is far different than walking away from a mortgage you are fully capable of paying, because your poor little condo has lost value, you are just never going to get anywhere if that is how you look at things. Maybe many people here just cannot afford to buy homes, so they hope for this horrible crisis to accomodate that. I would bet my life that the crisis you root for will ruin your life if it happens financially regardlesss of whether you are renting or are an owner. Unemployed people don’t buy homes no matter how cheap they are.

One last thought as an example of the mindset I refer to. I recently gave someone some money to help them pay their bills, because it was the right thing to do. It was not a loan. I did not root for them to get foreclosed so I could buy their house out from under them for a firesale price. Help someone occasionally who needs it, don’t root against them to elevate yourself. It will make you feel better than rooting for your neighbors house to decline 28%, if it doesn’t go see a doctor.

I am sure the boos for this post have already started.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

What has to change is people’s attitudes. If you enter into an obligation honor it, do not look for loopholes to weasel out of it. As a midwesterner by birth, it is something I see time and time again having lived in CA now for 26 years. Be it a wife, a dog, a kid, as soon as something falls out of favor on a short term basis too many look for the exits. Why not return to a time when a man’s handshake meant something. I personally would be the first person to continue to pay my mortgage even if there was a way out during a huge value drop, why? Because that is the agreement I made at the time for a 30 yr commitment. It is not my neighbors fault, the lenders fault, George Bush’s fault, if my house drops in value. IT IT MINE even though I do not care. Daytrading houses has never been a long term viable business and never will be.

I do not look to blame someone else for my decisions EVER. Anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves. I would also venture to guess there are few who do that who ever become wealthy, it is just a mindset. Focus on being successful at what you do, not on how to take advantage of someone else. Root for good things to happen to others, not bad things to make you feel better about your own situation.

Surely there have been situations where lenders have done some terrible things, and I have no sympathy for them either. However, you have to accept that the PPT is doing what they are doing for the overall good, and a few scoundrels are going to be saved. Do not spend negative energy on this, it is how the world has always worked, and will always work in the future.

I have several good friends with 7 figure new worths, and not one of them would try and take advantage of a bank in this fashion. They do utilize tax and other business loopholes etc.. but that is far different than walking away from a mortgage you are fully capable of paying, because your poor little condo has lost value, you are just never going to get anywhere if that is how you look at things. Maybe many people here just cannot afford to buy homes, so they hope for this horrible crisis to accomodate that. I would bet my life that the crisis you root for will ruin your life if it happens financially regardlesss of whether you are renting or are an owner. Unemployed people don’t buy homes no matter how cheap they are.

One last thought as an example of the mindset I refer to. I recently gave someone some money to help them pay their bills, because it was the right thing to do. It was not a loan. I did not root for them to get foreclosed so I could buy their house out from under them for a firesale price. Help someone occasionally who needs it, don’t root against them to elevate yourself. It will make you feel better than rooting for your neighbors house to decline 28%, if it doesn’t go see a doctor.

I am sure the boos for this post have already started.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

What has to change is people’s attitudes. If you enter into an obligation honor it, do not look for loopholes to weasel out of it. As a midwesterner by birth, it is something I see time and time again having lived in CA now for 26 years. Be it a wife, a dog, a kid, as soon as something falls out of favor on a short term basis too many look for the exits. Why not return to a time when a man’s handshake meant something. I personally would be the first person to continue to pay my mortgage even if there was a way out during a huge value drop, why? Because that is the agreement I made at the time for a 30 yr commitment. It is not my neighbors fault, the lenders fault, George Bush’s fault, if my house drops in value. IT IT MINE even though I do not care. Daytrading houses has never been a long term viable business and never will be.

I do not look to blame someone else for my decisions EVER. Anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves. I would also venture to guess there are few who do that who ever become wealthy, it is just a mindset. Focus on being successful at what you do, not on how to take advantage of someone else. Root for good things to happen to others, not bad things to make you feel better about your own situation.

Surely there have been situations where lenders have done some terrible things, and I have no sympathy for them either. However, you have to accept that the PPT is doing what they are doing for the overall good, and a few scoundrels are going to be saved. Do not spend negative energy on this, it is how the world has always worked, and will always work in the future.

I have several good friends with 7 figure new worths, and not one of them would try and take advantage of a bank in this fashion. They do utilize tax and other business loopholes etc.. but that is far different than walking away from a mortgage you are fully capable of paying, because your poor little condo has lost value, you are just never going to get anywhere if that is how you look at things. Maybe many people here just cannot afford to buy homes, so they hope for this horrible crisis to accomodate that. I would bet my life that the crisis you root for will ruin your life if it happens financially regardlesss of whether you are renting or are an owner. Unemployed people don’t buy homes no matter how cheap they are.

One last thought as an example of the mindset I refer to. I recently gave someone some money to help them pay their bills, because it was the right thing to do. It was not a loan. I did not root for them to get foreclosed so I could buy their house out from under them for a firesale price. Help someone occasionally who needs it, don’t root against them to elevate yourself. It will make you feel better than rooting for your neighbors house to decline 28%, if it doesn’t go see a doctor.

I am sure the boos for this post have already started.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

What has to change is people’s attitudes. If you enter into an obligation honor it, do not look for loopholes to weasel out of it. As a midwesterner by birth, it is something I see time and time again having lived in CA now for 26 years. Be it a wife, a dog, a kid, as soon as something falls out of favor on a short term basis too many look for the exits. Why not return to a time when a man’s handshake meant something. I personally would be the first person to continue to pay my mortgage even if there was a way out during a huge value drop, why? Because that is the agreement I made at the time for a 30 yr commitment. It is not my neighbors fault, the lenders fault, George Bush’s fault, if my house drops in value. IT IT MINE even though I do not care. Daytrading houses has never been a long term viable business and never will be.

I do not look to blame someone else for my decisions EVER. Anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves. I would also venture to guess there are few who do that who ever become wealthy, it is just a mindset. Focus on being successful at what you do, not on how to take advantage of someone else. Root for good things to happen to others, not bad things to make you feel better about your own situation.

Surely there have been situations where lenders have done some terrible things, and I have no sympathy for them either. However, you have to accept that the PPT is doing what they are doing for the overall good, and a few scoundrels are going to be saved. Do not spend negative energy on this, it is how the world has always worked, and will always work in the future.

I have several good friends with 7 figure new worths, and not one of them would try and take advantage of a bank in this fashion. They do utilize tax and other business loopholes etc.. but that is far different than walking away from a mortgage you are fully capable of paying, because your poor little condo has lost value, you are just never going to get anywhere if that is how you look at things. Maybe many people here just cannot afford to buy homes, so they hope for this horrible crisis to accomodate that. I would bet my life that the crisis you root for will ruin your life if it happens financially regardlesss of whether you are renting or are an owner. Unemployed people don’t buy homes no matter how cheap they are.

One last thought as an example of the mindset I refer to. I recently gave someone some money to help them pay their bills, because it was the right thing to do. It was not a loan. I did not root for them to get foreclosed so I could buy their house out from under them for a firesale price. Help someone occasionally who needs it, don’t root against them to elevate yourself. It will make you feel better than rooting for your neighbors house to decline 28%, if it doesn’t go see a doctor.

I am sure the boos for this post have already started.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

What has to change is people’s attitudes. If you enter into an obligation honor it, do not look for loopholes to weasel out of it. As a midwesterner by birth, it is something I see time and time again having lived in CA now for 26 years. Be it a wife, a dog, a kid, as soon as something falls out of favor on a short term basis too many look for the exits. Why not return to a time when a man’s handshake meant something. I personally would be the first person to continue to pay my mortgage even if there was a way out during a huge value drop, why? Because that is the agreement I made at the time for a 30 yr commitment. It is not my neighbors fault, the lenders fault, George Bush’s fault, if my house drops in value. IT IT MINE even though I do not care. Daytrading houses has never been a long term viable business and never will be.

I do not look to blame someone else for my decisions EVER. Anyone who does should be ashamed of themselves. I would also venture to guess there are few who do that who ever become wealthy, it is just a mindset. Focus on being successful at what you do, not on how to take advantage of someone else. Root for good things to happen to others, not bad things to make you feel better about your own situation.

Surely there have been situations where lenders have done some terrible things, and I have no sympathy for them either. However, you have to accept that the PPT is doing what they are doing for the overall good, and a few scoundrels are going to be saved. Do not spend negative energy on this, it is how the world has always worked, and will always work in the future.

I have several good friends with 7 figure new worths, and not one of them would try and take advantage of a bank in this fashion. They do utilize tax and other business loopholes etc.. but that is far different than walking away from a mortgage you are fully capable of paying, because your poor little condo has lost value, you are just never going to get anywhere if that is how you look at things. Maybe many people here just cannot afford to buy homes, so they hope for this horrible crisis to accomodate that. I would bet my life that the crisis you root for will ruin your life if it happens financially regardlesss of whether you are renting or are an owner. Unemployed people don’t buy homes no matter how cheap they are.

One last thought as an example of the mindset I refer to. I recently gave someone some money to help them pay their bills, because it was the right thing to do. It was not a loan. I did not root for them to get foreclosed so I could buy their house out from under them for a firesale price. Help someone occasionally who needs it, don’t root against them to elevate yourself. It will make you feel better than rooting for your neighbors house to decline 28%, if it doesn’t go see a doctor.

I am sure the boos for this post have already started.

[SD Realtor]

Good comments by all…

PW I guess I didn’t illustrate my point well… and yes Counselor did present a clean clear view which he does pretty much in all his posts and yes as you said the foreclosure clause is to protect the lender.

I guess the responsibility that I was trying to allude to is that there is (or should be) an inherent responsibility in home ownership that is not present or needed for simple ownership of assets. I think in order to reform the system to help prevent rampant speculation we need to up the ante for people who want to play.

Should there be any different treatment from Joe imbecile who was awarded a 600k loan on his meager 50k salary and he has to walk because of his loan resetting verses Shiela the educated homeowner who has an 600k loan and she is going to walk simply because she is tired of paying money for a depreciating asset?

No there should be no treatment. However, if Joe would have known that he will FOREVER BE A SLAVE to that loan UNLESS he had some major event that prevented him from being able to pay, then perhaps he would have never taken the risk.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think that real reform would help really keep prices in check but that reform has to be pretty heavy handed in order to wipe out or severely minimize speculation. That the reform is possible through being heavy handed with the buyers.

Lenders will ALWAYS have short memories. I do not think it is reliable that they will remember the licks they take.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Good comments by all…

PW I guess I didn’t illustrate my point well… and yes Counselor did present a clean clear view which he does pretty much in all his posts and yes as you said the foreclosure clause is to protect the lender.

I guess the responsibility that I was trying to allude to is that there is (or should be) an inherent responsibility in home ownership that is not present or needed for simple ownership of assets. I think in order to reform the system to help prevent rampant speculation we need to up the ante for people who want to play.

Should there be any different treatment from Joe imbecile who was awarded a 600k loan on his meager 50k salary and he has to walk because of his loan resetting verses Shiela the educated homeowner who has an 600k loan and she is going to walk simply because she is tired of paying money for a depreciating asset?

No there should be no treatment. However, if Joe would have known that he will FOREVER BE A SLAVE to that loan UNLESS he had some major event that prevented him from being able to pay, then perhaps he would have never taken the risk.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think that real reform would help really keep prices in check but that reform has to be pretty heavy handed in order to wipe out or severely minimize speculation. That the reform is possible through being heavy handed with the buyers.

Lenders will ALWAYS have short memories. I do not think it is reliable that they will remember the licks they take.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Good comments by all…

PW I guess I didn’t illustrate my point well… and yes Counselor did present a clean clear view which he does pretty much in all his posts and yes as you said the foreclosure clause is to protect the lender.

I guess the responsibility that I was trying to allude to is that there is (or should be) an inherent responsibility in home ownership that is not present or needed for simple ownership of assets. I think in order to reform the system to help prevent rampant speculation we need to up the ante for people who want to play.

Should there be any different treatment from Joe imbecile who was awarded a 600k loan on his meager 50k salary and he has to walk because of his loan resetting verses Shiela the educated homeowner who has an 600k loan and she is going to walk simply because she is tired of paying money for a depreciating asset?

No there should be no treatment. However, if Joe would have known that he will FOREVER BE A SLAVE to that loan UNLESS he had some major event that prevented him from being able to pay, then perhaps he would have never taken the risk.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think that real reform would help really keep prices in check but that reform has to be pretty heavy handed in order to wipe out or severely minimize speculation. That the reform is possible through being heavy handed with the buyers.

Lenders will ALWAYS have short memories. I do not think it is reliable that they will remember the licks they take.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Good comments by all…

PW I guess I didn’t illustrate my point well… and yes Counselor did present a clean clear view which he does pretty much in all his posts and yes as you said the foreclosure clause is to protect the lender.

I guess the responsibility that I was trying to allude to is that there is (or should be) an inherent responsibility in home ownership that is not present or needed for simple ownership of assets. I think in order to reform the system to help prevent rampant speculation we need to up the ante for people who want to play.

Should there be any different treatment from Joe imbecile who was awarded a 600k loan on his meager 50k salary and he has to walk because of his loan resetting verses Shiela the educated homeowner who has an 600k loan and she is going to walk simply because she is tired of paying money for a depreciating asset?

No there should be no treatment. However, if Joe would have known that he will FOREVER BE A SLAVE to that loan UNLESS he had some major event that prevented him from being able to pay, then perhaps he would have never taken the risk.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think that real reform would help really keep prices in check but that reform has to be pretty heavy handed in order to wipe out or severely minimize speculation. That the reform is possible through being heavy handed with the buyers.

Lenders will ALWAYS have short memories. I do not think it is reliable that they will remember the licks they take.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Good comments by all…

PW I guess I didn’t illustrate my point well… and yes Counselor did present a clean clear view which he does pretty much in all his posts and yes as you said the foreclosure clause is to protect the lender.

I guess the responsibility that I was trying to allude to is that there is (or should be) an inherent responsibility in home ownership that is not present or needed for simple ownership of assets. I think in order to reform the system to help prevent rampant speculation we need to up the ante for people who want to play.

Should there be any different treatment from Joe imbecile who was awarded a 600k loan on his meager 50k salary and he has to walk because of his loan resetting verses Shiela the educated homeowner who has an 600k loan and she is going to walk simply because she is tired of paying money for a depreciating asset?

No there should be no treatment. However, if Joe would have known that he will FOREVER BE A SLAVE to that loan UNLESS he had some major event that prevented him from being able to pay, then perhaps he would have never taken the risk.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think that real reform would help really keep prices in check but that reform has to be pretty heavy handed in order to wipe out or severely minimize speculation. That the reform is possible through being heavy handed with the buyers.

Lenders will ALWAYS have short memories. I do not think it is reliable that they will remember the licks they take.

SD Realtor

[sdrealtor]

If I could say it any better than Chris, Adam (SD R) or Rustico I would but they have it pretty much covered.

Whenever I hear statements like the OP, I always think back to Juraisic park. The fact that you can do something doesnt mean that you should.

[sdrealtor]

If I could say it any better than Chris, Adam (SD R) or Rustico I would but they have it pretty much covered.

Whenever I hear statements like the OP, I always think back to Juraisic park. The fact that you can do something doesnt mean that you should.

[sdrealtor]

If I could say it any better than Chris, Adam (SD R) or Rustico I would but they have it pretty much covered.

Whenever I hear statements like the OP, I always think back to Juraisic park. The fact that you can do something doesnt mean that you should.

[sdrealtor]

If I could say it any better than Chris, Adam (SD R) or Rustico I would but they have it pretty much covered.

Whenever I hear statements like the OP, I always think back to Juraisic park. The fact that you can do something doesnt mean that you should.

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