Why is San Diego real estate still so expensive?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=sdduuuude]While it seems we are close to historical norms in price-to-rent and price-to-income ratios, I have some doubts that this tells the right story.

Does the reported average or median income take into consideration all the people making $0? i.e.
if 90 people are making $50K and 10 are making $0, do they report an average of $45K or $50K. Do they average in the “0” values or do they just take the average salary of the people who are working? Hmmmm.

Secondly, are we really at historical norms with unemployment as high as it is ? I mean – we may be at an average price/income ratio, but these are not average times. The last time unemployment was this high, what was the price/income ratio or price/rent ratio ?

Would be nice to see a scatter-plot of local unemployment vs. price/rent ratio to see if we are in the ballpark.

[/quote]

Rich’s curves are based on per capita income, so Yes the zero incomes are averaged in, bringing the average down.

[an]

[quote=permabear]
Yes and yes. SD got hit by the dot-com bust but 100k for a senior programmer was about the same back then as now. Although looking at your figures I bet if I did the math on total comp I could buy a 10% increase. But that would still mean salaries haven’t even kept pace with the woefully-understated CPI. ($90k in 2000 is $112k today, a 25% jump)

Louis Vuitton… hahaha. We have paid-off cars and shop at Target. But a large chunk of my income goes to savings… guess I’m old-school in that way. It’s tough trying to be fiscally responsible in our current credit-orgy economy. Other people spending 100% of their income pushes prices of everything to stupid levels.[/quote]
So you’re saying sr. programmers were making $100k after the .com crash? They must be making bank during the .com bubble then huh? I’m not arguing whether income has kept up w/ CPI. What I’m trying to say is, income has risen over the last 9-10 years and interest rate has dropped quite a bit. So, add in those 2 variable and you should have more people competing at your price range since savers like yourselves are the minority.

With paid-off cars and shopping at Target while making $200k a year, I would expect you to be able to save $70-90k/year easily w/out breaking a sweat. If that’s your definition of “challenging”, then yes, it’s extremely challenging for those making $100k.

[an]

[quote=permabear]
Yes and yes. SD got hit by the dot-com bust but 100k for a senior programmer was about the same back then as now. Although looking at your figures I bet if I did the math on total comp I could buy a 10% increase. But that would still mean salaries haven’t even kept pace with the woefully-understated CPI. ($90k in 2000 is $112k today, a 25% jump)

Louis Vuitton… hahaha. We have paid-off cars and shop at Target. But a large chunk of my income goes to savings… guess I’m old-school in that way. It’s tough trying to be fiscally responsible in our current credit-orgy economy. Other people spending 100% of their income pushes prices of everything to stupid levels.[/quote]
So you’re saying sr. programmers were making $100k after the .com crash? They must be making bank during the .com bubble then huh? I’m not arguing whether income has kept up w/ CPI. What I’m trying to say is, income has risen over the last 9-10 years and interest rate has dropped quite a bit. So, add in those 2 variable and you should have more people competing at your price range since savers like yourselves are the minority.

With paid-off cars and shopping at Target while making $200k a year, I would expect you to be able to save $70-90k/year easily w/out breaking a sweat. If that’s your definition of “challenging”, then yes, it’s extremely challenging for those making $100k.

[an]

[quote=permabear]
Yes and yes. SD got hit by the dot-com bust but 100k for a senior programmer was about the same back then as now. Although looking at your figures I bet if I did the math on total comp I could buy a 10% increase. But that would still mean salaries haven’t even kept pace with the woefully-understated CPI. ($90k in 2000 is $112k today, a 25% jump)

Louis Vuitton… hahaha. We have paid-off cars and shop at Target. But a large chunk of my income goes to savings… guess I’m old-school in that way. It’s tough trying to be fiscally responsible in our current credit-orgy economy. Other people spending 100% of their income pushes prices of everything to stupid levels.[/quote]
So you’re saying sr. programmers were making $100k after the .com crash? They must be making bank during the .com bubble then huh? I’m not arguing whether income has kept up w/ CPI. What I’m trying to say is, income has risen over the last 9-10 years and interest rate has dropped quite a bit. So, add in those 2 variable and you should have more people competing at your price range since savers like yourselves are the minority.

With paid-off cars and shopping at Target while making $200k a year, I would expect you to be able to save $70-90k/year easily w/out breaking a sweat. If that’s your definition of “challenging”, then yes, it’s extremely challenging for those making $100k.

[an]

[quote=permabear]
Yes and yes. SD got hit by the dot-com bust but 100k for a senior programmer was about the same back then as now. Although looking at your figures I bet if I did the math on total comp I could buy a 10% increase. But that would still mean salaries haven’t even kept pace with the woefully-understated CPI. ($90k in 2000 is $112k today, a 25% jump)

Louis Vuitton… hahaha. We have paid-off cars and shop at Target. But a large chunk of my income goes to savings… guess I’m old-school in that way. It’s tough trying to be fiscally responsible in our current credit-orgy economy. Other people spending 100% of their income pushes prices of everything to stupid levels.[/quote]
So you’re saying sr. programmers were making $100k after the .com crash? They must be making bank during the .com bubble then huh? I’m not arguing whether income has kept up w/ CPI. What I’m trying to say is, income has risen over the last 9-10 years and interest rate has dropped quite a bit. So, add in those 2 variable and you should have more people competing at your price range since savers like yourselves are the minority.

With paid-off cars and shopping at Target while making $200k a year, I would expect you to be able to save $70-90k/year easily w/out breaking a sweat. If that’s your definition of “challenging”, then yes, it’s extremely challenging for those making $100k.

[an]

[quote=permabear]
Yes and yes. SD got hit by the dot-com bust but 100k for a senior programmer was about the same back then as now. Although looking at your figures I bet if I did the math on total comp I could buy a 10% increase. But that would still mean salaries haven’t even kept pace with the woefully-understated CPI. ($90k in 2000 is $112k today, a 25% jump)

Louis Vuitton… hahaha. We have paid-off cars and shop at Target. But a large chunk of my income goes to savings… guess I’m old-school in that way. It’s tough trying to be fiscally responsible in our current credit-orgy economy. Other people spending 100% of their income pushes prices of everything to stupid levels.[/quote]
So you’re saying sr. programmers were making $100k after the .com crash? They must be making bank during the .com bubble then huh? I’m not arguing whether income has kept up w/ CPI. What I’m trying to say is, income has risen over the last 9-10 years and interest rate has dropped quite a bit. So, add in those 2 variable and you should have more people competing at your price range since savers like yourselves are the minority.

With paid-off cars and shopping at Target while making $200k a year, I would expect you to be able to save $70-90k/year easily w/out breaking a sweat. If that’s your definition of “challenging”, then yes, it’s extremely challenging for those making $100k.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
EPI data tracking income and wage patterns show that the majority of income growth has for decades gone to a startlingly small number of top earners, while other workers have suffered a persistent stagnation or even decline in real earnings. While many middle-income families have lost jobs, homes, and retirement savings during the latest recession, their economic woes date back much further.

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/a_long_and_persistent_middle-class_squeeze/
——————

“The slow economic strangulation of the Freemans and millions of other middle-class Americans started long before the Great Recession, which merely exacerbated the “personal recession” that ordinary Americans had been suffering for years. Dubbed “median wage stagnation” by economists, the annual incomes of the bottom 90 per cent of US families have been essentially flat since 1973 – having risen by only 10 per cent in real terms over the past 37 years. That means most Americans have been treading water for more than a generation. Over the same period the incomes of the top 1 per cent have tripled. In 1973, chief executives were on average paid 26 times the median income. Now the ­multiple is above 300.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/08/ft-goodbye-middle-class/%5B/quote%5D
Who are the buyers of homes and specifically, who are the buyers of homes > $800k? It seems like the salary of those people definitely didn’t stay still based on your sources.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
EPI data tracking income and wage patterns show that the majority of income growth has for decades gone to a startlingly small number of top earners, while other workers have suffered a persistent stagnation or even decline in real earnings. While many middle-income families have lost jobs, homes, and retirement savings during the latest recession, their economic woes date back much further.

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/a_long_and_persistent_middle-class_squeeze/
——————

“The slow economic strangulation of the Freemans and millions of other middle-class Americans started long before the Great Recession, which merely exacerbated the “personal recession” that ordinary Americans had been suffering for years. Dubbed “median wage stagnation” by economists, the annual incomes of the bottom 90 per cent of US families have been essentially flat since 1973 – having risen by only 10 per cent in real terms over the past 37 years. That means most Americans have been treading water for more than a generation. Over the same period the incomes of the top 1 per cent have tripled. In 1973, chief executives were on average paid 26 times the median income. Now the ­multiple is above 300.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/08/ft-goodbye-middle-class/%5B/quote%5D
Who are the buyers of homes and specifically, who are the buyers of homes > $800k? It seems like the salary of those people definitely didn’t stay still based on your sources.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
EPI data tracking income and wage patterns show that the majority of income growth has for decades gone to a startlingly small number of top earners, while other workers have suffered a persistent stagnation or even decline in real earnings. While many middle-income families have lost jobs, homes, and retirement savings during the latest recession, their economic woes date back much further.

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/a_long_and_persistent_middle-class_squeeze/
——————

“The slow economic strangulation of the Freemans and millions of other middle-class Americans started long before the Great Recession, which merely exacerbated the “personal recession” that ordinary Americans had been suffering for years. Dubbed “median wage stagnation” by economists, the annual incomes of the bottom 90 per cent of US families have been essentially flat since 1973 – having risen by only 10 per cent in real terms over the past 37 years. That means most Americans have been treading water for more than a generation. Over the same period the incomes of the top 1 per cent have tripled. In 1973, chief executives were on average paid 26 times the median income. Now the ­multiple is above 300.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/08/ft-goodbye-middle-class/%5B/quote%5D
Who are the buyers of homes and specifically, who are the buyers of homes > $800k? It seems like the salary of those people definitely didn’t stay still based on your sources.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
EPI data tracking income and wage patterns show that the majority of income growth has for decades gone to a startlingly small number of top earners, while other workers have suffered a persistent stagnation or even decline in real earnings. While many middle-income families have lost jobs, homes, and retirement savings during the latest recession, their economic woes date back much further.

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/a_long_and_persistent_middle-class_squeeze/
——————

“The slow economic strangulation of the Freemans and millions of other middle-class Americans started long before the Great Recession, which merely exacerbated the “personal recession” that ordinary Americans had been suffering for years. Dubbed “median wage stagnation” by economists, the annual incomes of the bottom 90 per cent of US families have been essentially flat since 1973 – having risen by only 10 per cent in real terms over the past 37 years. That means most Americans have been treading water for more than a generation. Over the same period the incomes of the top 1 per cent have tripled. In 1973, chief executives were on average paid 26 times the median income. Now the ­multiple is above 300.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/08/ft-goodbye-middle-class/%5B/quote%5D
Who are the buyers of homes and specifically, who are the buyers of homes > $800k? It seems like the salary of those people definitely didn’t stay still based on your sources.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
EPI data tracking income and wage patterns show that the majority of income growth has for decades gone to a startlingly small number of top earners, while other workers have suffered a persistent stagnation or even decline in real earnings. While many middle-income families have lost jobs, homes, and retirement savings during the latest recession, their economic woes date back much further.

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/a_long_and_persistent_middle-class_squeeze/
——————

“The slow economic strangulation of the Freemans and millions of other middle-class Americans started long before the Great Recession, which merely exacerbated the “personal recession” that ordinary Americans had been suffering for years. Dubbed “median wage stagnation” by economists, the annual incomes of the bottom 90 per cent of US families have been essentially flat since 1973 – having risen by only 10 per cent in real terms over the past 37 years. That means most Americans have been treading water for more than a generation. Over the same period the incomes of the top 1 per cent have tripled. In 1973, chief executives were on average paid 26 times the median income. Now the ­multiple is above 300.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/08/ft-goodbye-middle-class/%5B/quote%5D
Who are the buyers of homes and specifically, who are the buyers of homes > $800k? It seems like the salary of those people definitely didn’t stay still based on your sources.

[an]

Thanks for bringing some data points ocrenter. I’ve researched LA/OC property too in the recent past when I ponder of moving up there for a job. After seeing what I’d get paid there, looking for homes w/in 15-20 minutes drive to work that’s in area that have schools with API ranking in the 9-10s, comparable size of home and lot, and the distance to the coast, I’m dropped that pondering real quick. I’d like to hear CAR’s rebuttal to your assertion.

[an]

Thanks for bringing some data points ocrenter. I’ve researched LA/OC property too in the recent past when I ponder of moving up there for a job. After seeing what I’d get paid there, looking for homes w/in 15-20 minutes drive to work that’s in area that have schools with API ranking in the 9-10s, comparable size of home and lot, and the distance to the coast, I’m dropped that pondering real quick. I’d like to hear CAR’s rebuttal to your assertion.

[an]

Thanks for bringing some data points ocrenter. I’ve researched LA/OC property too in the recent past when I ponder of moving up there for a job. After seeing what I’d get paid there, looking for homes w/in 15-20 minutes drive to work that’s in area that have schools with API ranking in the 9-10s, comparable size of home and lot, and the distance to the coast, I’m dropped that pondering real quick. I’d like to hear CAR’s rebuttal to your assertion.

[an]

Thanks for bringing some data points ocrenter. I’ve researched LA/OC property too in the recent past when I ponder of moving up there for a job. After seeing what I’d get paid there, looking for homes w/in 15-20 minutes drive to work that’s in area that have schools with API ranking in the 9-10s, comparable size of home and lot, and the distance to the coast, I’m dropped that pondering real quick. I’d like to hear CAR’s rebuttal to your assertion.

[Author]

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