Why I am leaving San Diego

[no_such_reality]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jstoesz]Maybe I am some crazy doom and gloomer about our economy. But I think we are in worse shape than we were in 08 and 09. We have covered up our problems for the last 3 years in the hopes that another bubble will float them away. If we would have bottomed at 12 trillion, I think we will bottom much lower now.

We are one unsuccessful bond auction away from insolvency. And the chances of this go up every day…[/quote]

Just read this after my last post.

Again, you’ve nailed it.[/quote]

And if that happens, you’ll be wishing you were a survivor in a zombie apocalypse.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter] An economic recovery (in my mind) means that the root causes of the downturn are purged (too much debt, and the too-high prices that were caused by all that debt). It means that people who want to work are able to find jobs that can support themselves and their families. It means that we have **stopped making all of our purchases with debt/leverage,** and are able to use our wages to buy what we need and some of what we want.

It means we are not digging ourselves a deeper hole, but filling in the hole that caused our problems in the first place.

We are nowhere near a true recovery. They are masking the symptoms of the problems, but the problems are every bit as real and as large as they were in 2008 — but with the way we’ve “financed” the bailouts, it is now the taxpayers who are taking the losses rather than the speculators who caused all the problems in the first place. THAT is what makes me so furious about all the bailouts — the wrong parties are being harmed, while the perpetrators are walking away with their cash. That is clearly very wrong.

BTW, I agree with you about where the money should have gone — infrastructure, unemployment insurance, jobs programs, etc., NOT to the financial players.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying.

CA renter, your definition of recovery is unorthodox and it sounds more like you want an economic cleansing.

Since you explained, I can’t say that I disagree with you. I’m all for an economic cleansing. But I’d rather have a cleansing without a deep recession/depression.

A recovery simply means incremental economic growth from the bottom of the recession. Notwithstanding a needed and overdue economic cleansing, digging out of a bottom (or recovery) is a lot more painful than holding steady near the peak. That was my point earlier.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter] An economic recovery (in my mind) means that the root causes of the downturn are purged (too much debt, and the too-high prices that were caused by all that debt). It means that people who want to work are able to find jobs that can support themselves and their families. It means that we have **stopped making all of our purchases with debt/leverage,** and are able to use our wages to buy what we need and some of what we want.

It means we are not digging ourselves a deeper hole, but filling in the hole that caused our problems in the first place.

We are nowhere near a true recovery. They are masking the symptoms of the problems, but the problems are every bit as real and as large as they were in 2008 — but with the way we’ve “financed” the bailouts, it is now the taxpayers who are taking the losses rather than the speculators who caused all the problems in the first place. THAT is what makes me so furious about all the bailouts — the wrong parties are being harmed, while the perpetrators are walking away with their cash. That is clearly very wrong.

BTW, I agree with you about where the money should have gone — infrastructure, unemployment insurance, jobs programs, etc., NOT to the financial players.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying.

CA renter, your definition of recovery is unorthodox and it sounds more like you want an economic cleansing.

Since you explained, I can’t say that I disagree with you. I’m all for an economic cleansing. But I’d rather have a cleansing without a deep recession/depression.

A recovery simply means incremental economic growth from the bottom of the recession. Notwithstanding a needed and overdue economic cleansing, digging out of a bottom (or recovery) is a lot more painful than holding steady near the peak. That was my point earlier.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter] An economic recovery (in my mind) means that the root causes of the downturn are purged (too much debt, and the too-high prices that were caused by all that debt). It means that people who want to work are able to find jobs that can support themselves and their families. It means that we have **stopped making all of our purchases with debt/leverage,** and are able to use our wages to buy what we need and some of what we want.

It means we are not digging ourselves a deeper hole, but filling in the hole that caused our problems in the first place.

We are nowhere near a true recovery. They are masking the symptoms of the problems, but the problems are every bit as real and as large as they were in 2008 — but with the way we’ve “financed” the bailouts, it is now the taxpayers who are taking the losses rather than the speculators who caused all the problems in the first place. THAT is what makes me so furious about all the bailouts — the wrong parties are being harmed, while the perpetrators are walking away with their cash. That is clearly very wrong.

BTW, I agree with you about where the money should have gone — infrastructure, unemployment insurance, jobs programs, etc., NOT to the financial players.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying.

CA renter, your definition of recovery is unorthodox and it sounds more like you want an economic cleansing.

Since you explained, I can’t say that I disagree with you. I’m all for an economic cleansing. But I’d rather have a cleansing without a deep recession/depression.

A recovery simply means incremental economic growth from the bottom of the recession. Notwithstanding a needed and overdue economic cleansing, digging out of a bottom (or recovery) is a lot more painful than holding steady near the peak. That was my point earlier.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter] An economic recovery (in my mind) means that the root causes of the downturn are purged (too much debt, and the too-high prices that were caused by all that debt). It means that people who want to work are able to find jobs that can support themselves and their families. It means that we have **stopped making all of our purchases with debt/leverage,** and are able to use our wages to buy what we need and some of what we want.

It means we are not digging ourselves a deeper hole, but filling in the hole that caused our problems in the first place.

We are nowhere near a true recovery. They are masking the symptoms of the problems, but the problems are every bit as real and as large as they were in 2008 — but with the way we’ve “financed” the bailouts, it is now the taxpayers who are taking the losses rather than the speculators who caused all the problems in the first place. THAT is what makes me so furious about all the bailouts — the wrong parties are being harmed, while the perpetrators are walking away with their cash. That is clearly very wrong.

BTW, I agree with you about where the money should have gone — infrastructure, unemployment insurance, jobs programs, etc., NOT to the financial players.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying.

CA renter, your definition of recovery is unorthodox and it sounds more like you want an economic cleansing.

Since you explained, I can’t say that I disagree with you. I’m all for an economic cleansing. But I’d rather have a cleansing without a deep recession/depression.

A recovery simply means incremental economic growth from the bottom of the recession. Notwithstanding a needed and overdue economic cleansing, digging out of a bottom (or recovery) is a lot more painful than holding steady near the peak. That was my point earlier.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter] An economic recovery (in my mind) means that the root causes of the downturn are purged (too much debt, and the too-high prices that were caused by all that debt). It means that people who want to work are able to find jobs that can support themselves and their families. It means that we have **stopped making all of our purchases with debt/leverage,** and are able to use our wages to buy what we need and some of what we want.

It means we are not digging ourselves a deeper hole, but filling in the hole that caused our problems in the first place.

We are nowhere near a true recovery. They are masking the symptoms of the problems, but the problems are every bit as real and as large as they were in 2008 — but with the way we’ve “financed” the bailouts, it is now the taxpayers who are taking the losses rather than the speculators who caused all the problems in the first place. THAT is what makes me so furious about all the bailouts — the wrong parties are being harmed, while the perpetrators are walking away with their cash. That is clearly very wrong.

BTW, I agree with you about where the money should have gone — infrastructure, unemployment insurance, jobs programs, etc., NOT to the financial players.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying.

CA renter, your definition of recovery is unorthodox and it sounds more like you want an economic cleansing.

Since you explained, I can’t say that I disagree with you. I’m all for an economic cleansing. But I’d rather have a cleansing without a deep recession/depression.

A recovery simply means incremental economic growth from the bottom of the recession. Notwithstanding a needed and overdue economic cleansing, digging out of a bottom (or recovery) is a lot more painful than holding steady near the peak. That was my point earlier.

[CA renter]

The problem is that you **can’t** have a recovery without a painful cleansing. We will face this pain, one way or another. I’d rather see the culprits behind this mess feel the pain more than those who’ve tried to be responsible and do the right thing.

The pain will be felt; there is no possible way to avoid it. The only thing we have control over is deciding *who* feels the brunt of it, and *how long* we intend to administer the pain. What they’re doing now is dragging it out, and putting greater distance between those who caused the “crisis” and the ultimate consequences of their actions.

If we had let the gamblers (and much of the financial system) implode, the pain would have been very sharp, but we would be far closer to a REAL recovery than we are now. We’ve only made the problems worse.

[CA renter]

The problem is that you **can’t** have a recovery without a painful cleansing. We will face this pain, one way or another. I’d rather see the culprits behind this mess feel the pain more than those who’ve tried to be responsible and do the right thing.

The pain will be felt; there is no possible way to avoid it. The only thing we have control over is deciding *who* feels the brunt of it, and *how long* we intend to administer the pain. What they’re doing now is dragging it out, and putting greater distance between those who caused the “crisis” and the ultimate consequences of their actions.

If we had let the gamblers (and much of the financial system) implode, the pain would have been very sharp, but we would be far closer to a REAL recovery than we are now. We’ve only made the problems worse.

[CA renter]

The problem is that you **can’t** have a recovery without a painful cleansing. We will face this pain, one way or another. I’d rather see the culprits behind this mess feel the pain more than those who’ve tried to be responsible and do the right thing.

The pain will be felt; there is no possible way to avoid it. The only thing we have control over is deciding *who* feels the brunt of it, and *how long* we intend to administer the pain. What they’re doing now is dragging it out, and putting greater distance between those who caused the “crisis” and the ultimate consequences of their actions.

If we had let the gamblers (and much of the financial system) implode, the pain would have been very sharp, but we would be far closer to a REAL recovery than we are now. We’ve only made the problems worse.

[CA renter]

The problem is that you **can’t** have a recovery without a painful cleansing. We will face this pain, one way or another. I’d rather see the culprits behind this mess feel the pain more than those who’ve tried to be responsible and do the right thing.

The pain will be felt; there is no possible way to avoid it. The only thing we have control over is deciding *who* feels the brunt of it, and *how long* we intend to administer the pain. What they’re doing now is dragging it out, and putting greater distance between those who caused the “crisis” and the ultimate consequences of their actions.

If we had let the gamblers (and much of the financial system) implode, the pain would have been very sharp, but we would be far closer to a REAL recovery than we are now. We’ve only made the problems worse.

[CA renter]

The problem is that you **can’t** have a recovery without a painful cleansing. We will face this pain, one way or another. I’d rather see the culprits behind this mess feel the pain more than those who’ve tried to be responsible and do the right thing.

The pain will be felt; there is no possible way to avoid it. The only thing we have control over is deciding *who* feels the brunt of it, and *how long* we intend to administer the pain. What they’re doing now is dragging it out, and putting greater distance between those who caused the “crisis” and the ultimate consequences of their actions.

If we had let the gamblers (and much of the financial system) implode, the pain would have been very sharp, but we would be far closer to a REAL recovery than we are now. We’ve only made the problems worse.

[jpinpb]

CAR – you and I agree on this. I really believe though the pain would’ve been profound initially, we would start to see a real recovery by now. We should have had the surgery and removed the cancerous organ. Instead, we have masked the symptoms w/some meds and let the organ rot and fester.

[jpinpb]

CAR – you and I agree on this. I really believe though the pain would’ve been profound initially, we would start to see a real recovery by now. We should have had the surgery and removed the cancerous organ. Instead, we have masked the symptoms w/some meds and let the organ rot and fester.

[jpinpb]

CAR – you and I agree on this. I really believe though the pain would’ve been profound initially, we would start to see a real recovery by now. We should have had the surgery and removed the cancerous organ. Instead, we have masked the symptoms w/some meds and let the organ rot and fester.

[jpinpb]

CAR – you and I agree on this. I really believe though the pain would’ve been profound initially, we would start to see a real recovery by now. We should have had the surgery and removed the cancerous organ. Instead, we have masked the symptoms w/some meds and let the organ rot and fester.

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