Whoa: ECB bailout move…Significant, or more hand waving?

[briansd1]

More prosperity in the Euro Zone means more exports for German products.

German intransigance will probably lead to recession and European banks, including German banks going under.

I think that in 10 years, with hindsight, Bernanke will be seen as a hero. The ECB will have to evolve to be more like the Fed.

Austerity is never the answer out of recession.

[briansd1]

[quote=spdrun]ECB did the correct thing. Why should the Germans be punished for what the ignorant f**ks in Ireland and Southern Europe f**ked up? The only incorrect dithering is the dithering on kicking the Greeks, Irish, Italians, and Spaniards right out of the Euro.[/quote]

Well, German and French and other banks lent the money to Greece, Spain, etc. those banks and pension funds will go under without support.

The satisfaction of kicking them out will lead to them refusing to pay. Then everybody is screwed.

[paramount]

[quote=briansd1]Had the ECB announced bond purchases at the beginning of the crisis, the action would have been more effective.

Our Fed acted fast and decisively, even providing Dollars to foreign central banks. In contrast, the ECB was dithering while the economy was deteriorating. That’s the difference.[/quote]

Yah, because all of those [known] trillions spent by the fed has really been helpful….

[briansd1]

[quote=paramount]
Yah, because all of those [known] trillions spent by the fed has really been helpful….[/quote]

They kept us out of recession, provided low mortgage rates for people such as flu to enjoy. Large corporations are flush with cash.

The money lent out by the Fed will eventually all be paid back without any loss to taxpayers.

[SK in CV]

[quote=livinincali]
I can’t wait until this action fails and the Keynesians claim unlimited bond purchases wasn’t big enough.[/quote]

This is not a “keynesian” move. You’ll have to find someone else to blame if it fails.

[paramount]

[quote=briansd1][quote=paramount]
Yah, because all of those [known] trillions spent by the fed has really been helpful….[/quote]

They kept us out of recession, provided low mortgage rates for people such as flu to enjoy. Large corporations are flush with cash.

The money lent out by the Fed will eventually all be paid back without any loss to taxpayers.[/quote]

Do you really believe this? The fed actions will end up being a cure that was worse than the disease.

Sure, the feds can keep the ponzi scheme going for a long time, but it will end.

As far as keeping us out of a recession, I’m not so sure of that – inflation numbers are phony which makes gdp appear stronger than it actually is – and even if it technically kept us out of recession it wasn’t by much.

You can’t beat the fed they say, but even the fed can’t beat the markets over the long run.

With unemployment/underemployment so high, low interest rates – which can and does have negative consequences – aren’t helping all that much.

[Coronita]

You know the point of this fvcking thread was to discuss what folks felt was going to happen IN EUROPE…

Not go off a fvcking tangent about whether the bailouts in the U.S. were necessary or not…

Brian, my one line was a question was to discuss about finance. Not a fvcking political slapfest or whether bailouts are necessary or not.

[briansd1]

Not really a bailout. But ECB clearly sees the need make the announcement and intervene in the markets.

Like the Washington Post said, Europe didn’t learn from the US. So they are losing precious time while the economy deteriorates. And that will make future adjustments harder. It’s always harder to reform with a shrinking economy.

I think that Euro bonds are in the future. And Brussels will have the right to veto countries’ budgets, or otherwise penalize counties that don’t comply. Something that economists such as Paul Krugman predicted a while back.

[paramount]

Countries have to agree to participate.

Check the news right now, Greece is burning as I write this, so is Spain. Italy will be next.

More austerity? That’s going to be a tough sell.

[briansd1]

[quote=paramount]Countries have to agree to participate.

Check the news right now, Greece is burning as I write this, so is Spain. Italy will be next.

More austerity? That’s going to be a tough sell.[/quote]

Exactly. More austerity is not the solution out of recession. Greece needs to give up some future fiscal sovereignty for help today.

Greece was a poor country relative to France and Germany. The Euro improved quality of life in Greece and brought it closer to parity with the big economies Same with Ireland and Portugal.

It’s not the poverty relative to before the Euro that is painful. The painful part is the sliding back and the.pain that is being felt mostly at the bottom of the social economic ladder.

[livinincali]

[quote=briansd1]
I think that Euro bonds are in the future. And Brussels will have the right to veto countries’ budgets, or otherwise penalize counties that don’t comply. Something that economists such as Paul Krugman predicted a while back.[/quote]

It’s possible but I highly doubt it. The German people aren’t going to go for that and the German constitution would have to be amended to make Euro Bonds a possibility. They’ll try slight of hands like they are now, where the ECB is promising to buy unlimited quantities of bonds without identifying where the money is coming from. Eventually people are going to figure out that the money (the actual goods and services the ECB is loaning) is coming from the Northern European countries via devaluation of the Euro.

As an individual you’ll bail out a family member with bad financial decisions to a degree but eventually you’re going to cut them off and move on. That’s essentially what Europe is doing right now. Either Finland, Germany, or France are going to realize they aren’t ever getting paid back and decide to leave, or Greece is going to default and leave, so they can devalue. Whoever leaves first will reap the biggest benefit.

[paramount]

Who in the hell do you think you are?

http://12160.info/video/who-the-hell-you-think-you-are-nigel-farage-says-to-the-pro-one?xg_source=activity

[Author]

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