U.S. TO DEFAULT ON ITS DEBT – SUMMER 2009

[Arraya]

Sd- I don’t think it is totally up to the US at this point. Watch the G20 meeting. After all we did blow up the entire global banking system. I think it is more a matter of what the world wants, whether we like it or not. They will decide what is best for them and it might not work out to well for us. I think the question is, would our creditors rather take printed money or let us default. I don’t think either one of us could possibly quantify that decision. However, I’m sure a few Chinese economist have been working on it.

[4plexowner]

I found this article interesting – it suggests that the G20 meeting this weekend could devalue ALL the major currencies of the world – if I understand correctly, the article is suggesting that a revaluation of gold (to some higher price that all the central banks of the world would pay for any gold presented for sale) could automatically devalue all the fiat currencies by some amount – the article further suggests that the new price of gold would lead the prices of all real assets higher (aside: how would this feed into real estate prices?)

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/72949

The idea that a currency devaluation helps ALL debtors is interesting – if my $2500/mo mortgage remains $2500/mo but the currency has been de-valued by a factor of 10, what has really happened?

if my employer immediately raises my pay by a factor of 10 then I’d be fat and happy – before the devaluation I was paying 30% ($30K mtg on $100K income) of my income for housing and after the devaluation I am only paying 3% ($30K mortgage on $1 mil income)

of course, after the devaluation everything that I use on a daily basis is going to increase by at least a factor of 10 – gasoline, food, services, etc – these were real-time costs (as opposed to existing debt) before the devaluation and they remain real-time costs after the devaluation – if I was spending 50% ($50K out of $100K) of my income on these costs then I will continue paying 50% after the devaluation ($500K out of $1 mil)

all of that rambling is based on the premise that 1) I am employed, and 2) that my employer increases my pay by a factor of 10 at the same time that the currency devaluation is enacted – reality is that there are a lot of unemployed people and a lot of small business owners who don’t fit into number 1) and number 2) is pretty far-fetched IMO – I wonder what happened in Argentina, Mexico, etc during major devaluations of the currencies?

in reality there is probably a significant time-lag before any increase in wages occurs – people living paycheck-to-paycheck will get squeezed hard as prices rise for everything involved with daily living while wages remain stagnant and jobs become harder to come by

another interesting thought about revaluing gold: the US (supposedly) has 3200 tons of the stuff which makes the US a major holder – the US is also the world’s biggest debtor – if a revaluation of gold actually reduces the burden of outstanding debt, then who stands to gain the most from said revaluation? (hint: “the US”)

~

http://www.nwotruth.com/secret-plan-for-imf-world-dictatorship-g-20-summit-in-dc-on-11-15-8/

this article has a sentence that I like:

“The US $700 billion bailout and the UK and EU versions are a futile attempt to prop up the $1.5 quadrillion derivatives bubble. Sensible economic policy starts with wiping out the derivatives cancer.”

these derivatives are absolutely worthless – ie, zip, zero, nada, etc – how many ways do you have to say it before people get a clue – all of the current “rescue” attempts (notice how the media has shifted “bailout” to “rescue” over the past 2-3 months?) are trying to maintain the status quo and the status quo is unmaintainable (ie, can not be maintained)

I read one article suggesting that all of the derivatives be declared null and void – basically yell, “olly olly oxen free”, and have all the parties and counter-parties to the derivatives take their worthless paper and go home

interesting times, these – hard to say what is possible anymore much less likely

[4plexowner]

I found this article interesting – it suggests that the G20 meeting this weekend could devalue ALL the major currencies of the world – if I understand correctly, the article is suggesting that a revaluation of gold (to some higher price that all the central banks of the world would pay for any gold presented for sale) could automatically devalue all the fiat currencies by some amount – the article further suggests that the new price of gold would lead the prices of all real assets higher (aside: how would this feed into real estate prices?)

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/72949

The idea that a currency devaluation helps ALL debtors is interesting – if my $2500/mo mortgage remains $2500/mo but the currency has been de-valued by a factor of 10, what has really happened?

if my employer immediately raises my pay by a factor of 10 then I’d be fat and happy – before the devaluation I was paying 30% ($30K mtg on $100K income) of my income for housing and after the devaluation I am only paying 3% ($30K mortgage on $1 mil income)

of course, after the devaluation everything that I use on a daily basis is going to increase by at least a factor of 10 – gasoline, food, services, etc – these were real-time costs (as opposed to existing debt) before the devaluation and they remain real-time costs after the devaluation – if I was spending 50% ($50K out of $100K) of my income on these costs then I will continue paying 50% after the devaluation ($500K out of $1 mil)

all of that rambling is based on the premise that 1) I am employed, and 2) that my employer increases my pay by a factor of 10 at the same time that the currency devaluation is enacted – reality is that there are a lot of unemployed people and a lot of small business owners who don’t fit into number 1) and number 2) is pretty far-fetched IMO – I wonder what happened in Argentina, Mexico, etc during major devaluations of the currencies?

in reality there is probably a significant time-lag before any increase in wages occurs – people living paycheck-to-paycheck will get squeezed hard as prices rise for everything involved with daily living while wages remain stagnant and jobs become harder to come by

another interesting thought about revaluing gold: the US (supposedly) has 3200 tons of the stuff which makes the US a major holder – the US is also the world’s biggest debtor – if a revaluation of gold actually reduces the burden of outstanding debt, then who stands to gain the most from said revaluation? (hint: “the US”)

~

http://www.nwotruth.com/secret-plan-for-imf-world-dictatorship-g-20-summit-in-dc-on-11-15-8/

this article has a sentence that I like:

“The US $700 billion bailout and the UK and EU versions are a futile attempt to prop up the $1.5 quadrillion derivatives bubble. Sensible economic policy starts with wiping out the derivatives cancer.”

these derivatives are absolutely worthless – ie, zip, zero, nada, etc – how many ways do you have to say it before people get a clue – all of the current “rescue” attempts (notice how the media has shifted “bailout” to “rescue” over the past 2-3 months?) are trying to maintain the status quo and the status quo is unmaintainable (ie, can not be maintained)

I read one article suggesting that all of the derivatives be declared null and void – basically yell, “olly olly oxen free”, and have all the parties and counter-parties to the derivatives take their worthless paper and go home

interesting times, these – hard to say what is possible anymore much less likely

[4plexowner]

I found this article interesting – it suggests that the G20 meeting this weekend could devalue ALL the major currencies of the world – if I understand correctly, the article is suggesting that a revaluation of gold (to some higher price that all the central banks of the world would pay for any gold presented for sale) could automatically devalue all the fiat currencies by some amount – the article further suggests that the new price of gold would lead the prices of all real assets higher (aside: how would this feed into real estate prices?)

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/72949

The idea that a currency devaluation helps ALL debtors is interesting – if my $2500/mo mortgage remains $2500/mo but the currency has been de-valued by a factor of 10, what has really happened?

if my employer immediately raises my pay by a factor of 10 then I’d be fat and happy – before the devaluation I was paying 30% ($30K mtg on $100K income) of my income for housing and after the devaluation I am only paying 3% ($30K mortgage on $1 mil income)

of course, after the devaluation everything that I use on a daily basis is going to increase by at least a factor of 10 – gasoline, food, services, etc – these were real-time costs (as opposed to existing debt) before the devaluation and they remain real-time costs after the devaluation – if I was spending 50% ($50K out of $100K) of my income on these costs then I will continue paying 50% after the devaluation ($500K out of $1 mil)

all of that rambling is based on the premise that 1) I am employed, and 2) that my employer increases my pay by a factor of 10 at the same time that the currency devaluation is enacted – reality is that there are a lot of unemployed people and a lot of small business owners who don’t fit into number 1) and number 2) is pretty far-fetched IMO – I wonder what happened in Argentina, Mexico, etc during major devaluations of the currencies?

in reality there is probably a significant time-lag before any increase in wages occurs – people living paycheck-to-paycheck will get squeezed hard as prices rise for everything involved with daily living while wages remain stagnant and jobs become harder to come by

another interesting thought about revaluing gold: the US (supposedly) has 3200 tons of the stuff which makes the US a major holder – the US is also the world’s biggest debtor – if a revaluation of gold actually reduces the burden of outstanding debt, then who stands to gain the most from said revaluation? (hint: “the US”)

~

http://www.nwotruth.com/secret-plan-for-imf-world-dictatorship-g-20-summit-in-dc-on-11-15-8/

this article has a sentence that I like:

“The US $700 billion bailout and the UK and EU versions are a futile attempt to prop up the $1.5 quadrillion derivatives bubble. Sensible economic policy starts with wiping out the derivatives cancer.”

these derivatives are absolutely worthless – ie, zip, zero, nada, etc – how many ways do you have to say it before people get a clue – all of the current “rescue” attempts (notice how the media has shifted “bailout” to “rescue” over the past 2-3 months?) are trying to maintain the status quo and the status quo is unmaintainable (ie, can not be maintained)

I read one article suggesting that all of the derivatives be declared null and void – basically yell, “olly olly oxen free”, and have all the parties and counter-parties to the derivatives take their worthless paper and go home

interesting times, these – hard to say what is possible anymore much less likely

[4plexowner]

I found this article interesting – it suggests that the G20 meeting this weekend could devalue ALL the major currencies of the world – if I understand correctly, the article is suggesting that a revaluation of gold (to some higher price that all the central banks of the world would pay for any gold presented for sale) could automatically devalue all the fiat currencies by some amount – the article further suggests that the new price of gold would lead the prices of all real assets higher (aside: how would this feed into real estate prices?)

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/72949

The idea that a currency devaluation helps ALL debtors is interesting – if my $2500/mo mortgage remains $2500/mo but the currency has been de-valued by a factor of 10, what has really happened?

if my employer immediately raises my pay by a factor of 10 then I’d be fat and happy – before the devaluation I was paying 30% ($30K mtg on $100K income) of my income for housing and after the devaluation I am only paying 3% ($30K mortgage on $1 mil income)

of course, after the devaluation everything that I use on a daily basis is going to increase by at least a factor of 10 – gasoline, food, services, etc – these were real-time costs (as opposed to existing debt) before the devaluation and they remain real-time costs after the devaluation – if I was spending 50% ($50K out of $100K) of my income on these costs then I will continue paying 50% after the devaluation ($500K out of $1 mil)

all of that rambling is based on the premise that 1) I am employed, and 2) that my employer increases my pay by a factor of 10 at the same time that the currency devaluation is enacted – reality is that there are a lot of unemployed people and a lot of small business owners who don’t fit into number 1) and number 2) is pretty far-fetched IMO – I wonder what happened in Argentina, Mexico, etc during major devaluations of the currencies?

in reality there is probably a significant time-lag before any increase in wages occurs – people living paycheck-to-paycheck will get squeezed hard as prices rise for everything involved with daily living while wages remain stagnant and jobs become harder to come by

another interesting thought about revaluing gold: the US (supposedly) has 3200 tons of the stuff which makes the US a major holder – the US is also the world’s biggest debtor – if a revaluation of gold actually reduces the burden of outstanding debt, then who stands to gain the most from said revaluation? (hint: “the US”)

~

http://www.nwotruth.com/secret-plan-for-imf-world-dictatorship-g-20-summit-in-dc-on-11-15-8/

this article has a sentence that I like:

“The US $700 billion bailout and the UK and EU versions are a futile attempt to prop up the $1.5 quadrillion derivatives bubble. Sensible economic policy starts with wiping out the derivatives cancer.”

these derivatives are absolutely worthless – ie, zip, zero, nada, etc – how many ways do you have to say it before people get a clue – all of the current “rescue” attempts (notice how the media has shifted “bailout” to “rescue” over the past 2-3 months?) are trying to maintain the status quo and the status quo is unmaintainable (ie, can not be maintained)

I read one article suggesting that all of the derivatives be declared null and void – basically yell, “olly olly oxen free”, and have all the parties and counter-parties to the derivatives take their worthless paper and go home

interesting times, these – hard to say what is possible anymore much less likely

[4plexowner]

I found this article interesting – it suggests that the G20 meeting this weekend could devalue ALL the major currencies of the world – if I understand correctly, the article is suggesting that a revaluation of gold (to some higher price that all the central banks of the world would pay for any gold presented for sale) could automatically devalue all the fiat currencies by some amount – the article further suggests that the new price of gold would lead the prices of all real assets higher (aside: how would this feed into real estate prices?)

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/72949

The idea that a currency devaluation helps ALL debtors is interesting – if my $2500/mo mortgage remains $2500/mo but the currency has been de-valued by a factor of 10, what has really happened?

if my employer immediately raises my pay by a factor of 10 then I’d be fat and happy – before the devaluation I was paying 30% ($30K mtg on $100K income) of my income for housing and after the devaluation I am only paying 3% ($30K mortgage on $1 mil income)

of course, after the devaluation everything that I use on a daily basis is going to increase by at least a factor of 10 – gasoline, food, services, etc – these were real-time costs (as opposed to existing debt) before the devaluation and they remain real-time costs after the devaluation – if I was spending 50% ($50K out of $100K) of my income on these costs then I will continue paying 50% after the devaluation ($500K out of $1 mil)

all of that rambling is based on the premise that 1) I am employed, and 2) that my employer increases my pay by a factor of 10 at the same time that the currency devaluation is enacted – reality is that there are a lot of unemployed people and a lot of small business owners who don’t fit into number 1) and number 2) is pretty far-fetched IMO – I wonder what happened in Argentina, Mexico, etc during major devaluations of the currencies?

in reality there is probably a significant time-lag before any increase in wages occurs – people living paycheck-to-paycheck will get squeezed hard as prices rise for everything involved with daily living while wages remain stagnant and jobs become harder to come by

another interesting thought about revaluing gold: the US (supposedly) has 3200 tons of the stuff which makes the US a major holder – the US is also the world’s biggest debtor – if a revaluation of gold actually reduces the burden of outstanding debt, then who stands to gain the most from said revaluation? (hint: “the US”)

~

http://www.nwotruth.com/secret-plan-for-imf-world-dictatorship-g-20-summit-in-dc-on-11-15-8/

this article has a sentence that I like:

“The US $700 billion bailout and the UK and EU versions are a futile attempt to prop up the $1.5 quadrillion derivatives bubble. Sensible economic policy starts with wiping out the derivatives cancer.”

these derivatives are absolutely worthless – ie, zip, zero, nada, etc – how many ways do you have to say it before people get a clue – all of the current “rescue” attempts (notice how the media has shifted “bailout” to “rescue” over the past 2-3 months?) are trying to maintain the status quo and the status quo is unmaintainable (ie, can not be maintained)

I read one article suggesting that all of the derivatives be declared null and void – basically yell, “olly olly oxen free”, and have all the parties and counter-parties to the derivatives take their worthless paper and go home

interesting times, these – hard to say what is possible anymore much less likely

[TheBreeze]

[quote=sdduuuude]I think it is a difference of opinion (i.e. guess) of what the gov will do if faced with bigger debt payments than they can handle.

The question is – will they print and pay or will they not print and not pay ?

You suspect they’ll just default and save the dollar.

I think they’ll print and pay.

It’s a good discussion, though.[/quote]

It would be kind of silly for the government to have taken all of the Fannie/Freddie debt ($5 trillion) on its books only to default on that debt a year later. After all, there was a notice on every Fannie/Freddie bond in huge letters that it wasn’t backed by the government.

Of course, our government has done a lot of silly things, so guaranteeing a bunch of debt they didn’t have to guarantee only to default on that same debt a year later wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=sdduuuude]I think it is a difference of opinion (i.e. guess) of what the gov will do if faced with bigger debt payments than they can handle.

The question is – will they print and pay or will they not print and not pay ?

You suspect they’ll just default and save the dollar.

I think they’ll print and pay.

It’s a good discussion, though.[/quote]

It would be kind of silly for the government to have taken all of the Fannie/Freddie debt ($5 trillion) on its books only to default on that debt a year later. After all, there was a notice on every Fannie/Freddie bond in huge letters that it wasn’t backed by the government.

Of course, our government has done a lot of silly things, so guaranteeing a bunch of debt they didn’t have to guarantee only to default on that same debt a year later wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=sdduuuude]I think it is a difference of opinion (i.e. guess) of what the gov will do if faced with bigger debt payments than they can handle.

The question is – will they print and pay or will they not print and not pay ?

You suspect they’ll just default and save the dollar.

I think they’ll print and pay.

It’s a good discussion, though.[/quote]

It would be kind of silly for the government to have taken all of the Fannie/Freddie debt ($5 trillion) on its books only to default on that debt a year later. After all, there was a notice on every Fannie/Freddie bond in huge letters that it wasn’t backed by the government.

Of course, our government has done a lot of silly things, so guaranteeing a bunch of debt they didn’t have to guarantee only to default on that same debt a year later wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=sdduuuude]I think it is a difference of opinion (i.e. guess) of what the gov will do if faced with bigger debt payments than they can handle.

The question is – will they print and pay or will they not print and not pay ?

You suspect they’ll just default and save the dollar.

I think they’ll print and pay.

It’s a good discussion, though.[/quote]

It would be kind of silly for the government to have taken all of the Fannie/Freddie debt ($5 trillion) on its books only to default on that debt a year later. After all, there was a notice on every Fannie/Freddie bond in huge letters that it wasn’t backed by the government.

Of course, our government has done a lot of silly things, so guaranteeing a bunch of debt they didn’t have to guarantee only to default on that same debt a year later wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=sdduuuude]I think it is a difference of opinion (i.e. guess) of what the gov will do if faced with bigger debt payments than they can handle.

The question is – will they print and pay or will they not print and not pay ?

You suspect they’ll just default and save the dollar.

I think they’ll print and pay.

It’s a good discussion, though.[/quote]

It would be kind of silly for the government to have taken all of the Fannie/Freddie debt ($5 trillion) on its books only to default on that debt a year later. After all, there was a notice on every Fannie/Freddie bond in huge letters that it wasn’t backed by the government.

Of course, our government has done a lot of silly things, so guaranteeing a bunch of debt they didn’t have to guarantee only to default on that same debt a year later wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=partypup]

Let’s face it, TB. Obama IS going to get ensnared in Dubya’s mess in 2 months. Come January 21, 2009, there will be absolutely no way for him to avoid it.

So I really can’t see the point in “staying above the fray” for the next 10 weeks. Seriously. Is this about politics or about what’s best for our country? Because given how fast this thing is unravelling, it would seem prudent to dive in ASAP and get a real sense of just how deep this rabbit hole goes and getting an understanding of how bad other world leaders think this is going to get and where their heads are, rather than waiting until January.

In 10 weeks, Americans aren’t going to care WHO created this mess or how badly Obama is ensnared in it. The only thing they will want and expect is *change*, answers and solutions.

You can run, Obammy. But you can’t hide.
[/quote]

I’m certain that Obama has made the economy his #1 focus. Just because he’s chosen not to attend some ridiculous conference doesn’t mean that he hasn’t already dove headfirst into some serious economic study.

Bush just wanted The Great Obama to attend the summit so it would look like TGO was backing Dumbya’s economic policies. TGO is way, way too smart for that.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=partypup]

Let’s face it, TB. Obama IS going to get ensnared in Dubya’s mess in 2 months. Come January 21, 2009, there will be absolutely no way for him to avoid it.

So I really can’t see the point in “staying above the fray” for the next 10 weeks. Seriously. Is this about politics or about what’s best for our country? Because given how fast this thing is unravelling, it would seem prudent to dive in ASAP and get a real sense of just how deep this rabbit hole goes and getting an understanding of how bad other world leaders think this is going to get and where their heads are, rather than waiting until January.

In 10 weeks, Americans aren’t going to care WHO created this mess or how badly Obama is ensnared in it. The only thing they will want and expect is *change*, answers and solutions.

You can run, Obammy. But you can’t hide.
[/quote]

I’m certain that Obama has made the economy his #1 focus. Just because he’s chosen not to attend some ridiculous conference doesn’t mean that he hasn’t already dove headfirst into some serious economic study.

Bush just wanted The Great Obama to attend the summit so it would look like TGO was backing Dumbya’s economic policies. TGO is way, way too smart for that.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=partypup]

Let’s face it, TB. Obama IS going to get ensnared in Dubya’s mess in 2 months. Come January 21, 2009, there will be absolutely no way for him to avoid it.

So I really can’t see the point in “staying above the fray” for the next 10 weeks. Seriously. Is this about politics or about what’s best for our country? Because given how fast this thing is unravelling, it would seem prudent to dive in ASAP and get a real sense of just how deep this rabbit hole goes and getting an understanding of how bad other world leaders think this is going to get and where their heads are, rather than waiting until January.

In 10 weeks, Americans aren’t going to care WHO created this mess or how badly Obama is ensnared in it. The only thing they will want and expect is *change*, answers and solutions.

You can run, Obammy. But you can’t hide.
[/quote]

I’m certain that Obama has made the economy his #1 focus. Just because he’s chosen not to attend some ridiculous conference doesn’t mean that he hasn’t already dove headfirst into some serious economic study.

Bush just wanted The Great Obama to attend the summit so it would look like TGO was backing Dumbya’s economic policies. TGO is way, way too smart for that.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=partypup]

Let’s face it, TB. Obama IS going to get ensnared in Dubya’s mess in 2 months. Come January 21, 2009, there will be absolutely no way for him to avoid it.

So I really can’t see the point in “staying above the fray” for the next 10 weeks. Seriously. Is this about politics or about what’s best for our country? Because given how fast this thing is unravelling, it would seem prudent to dive in ASAP and get a real sense of just how deep this rabbit hole goes and getting an understanding of how bad other world leaders think this is going to get and where their heads are, rather than waiting until January.

In 10 weeks, Americans aren’t going to care WHO created this mess or how badly Obama is ensnared in it. The only thing they will want and expect is *change*, answers and solutions.

You can run, Obammy. But you can’t hide.
[/quote]

I’m certain that Obama has made the economy his #1 focus. Just because he’s chosen not to attend some ridiculous conference doesn’t mean that he hasn’t already dove headfirst into some serious economic study.

Bush just wanted The Great Obama to attend the summit so it would look like TGO was backing Dumbya’s economic policies. TGO is way, way too smart for that.

[Author]

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