Time to fire 30% of public employees

[equalizer]

[quote=patientrenter]CA Renter wrote: “Most govt employees are the same ones who spend almost all of their income and live paycheck to paycheck.
Guess where all that money goes? Right back into the economy — your private business.
Directly or indirectly, we all benefit from government employment. It’s unfortunate so many people can’t make the connection between private and public employment.”

So, let’s imagine a desert island economy of 3 people. One person fishes well, and catches 3 fish per day. One person collects coconuts, and manages to pick up 3 per day. The last person catches seabirds that land on the island, and catches 3 per day.

It’s easy to see that, with a little trade, they can all make a good living. Now let’s say the bird-catcher negotiates an agreement with the other two to be the island’s government employee, and gets 1 coconut and 1 fish per day, guaranteed, if he spends just 1/3 of the time catching birds, and continues to give 2/3 of his daily catch to the other 2.

When there was no govt, the total daily bounty of the little community was 3 fish, 3 coconuts, and 3 birds. After the reorganization that removed the incentives for some of the people to be as productive as possible, the total bounty was 3 fish, 3 coconuts, and 1 bird = Less.

Sure, the government employee is passing along 2/3 of what he produces to the non-govt emplyees, but they are all worse off for having let a system develop that fails to encourage everyone to be as economically productive as possible.

So arguments that it’s OK if SOME govt employees are not being as productive as possible because they spend their money and thereby spread it to others, simply misses the point. Spending money does not provide goods and services to others. People’s contribution to society should be measured by the open market value of the goods and services they provide to others, not how much they get to spend because they had political leverage to get sweet job contracts.[/quote]

This is why local pols love earmarks, federal spending: As long its other people’s money its OK. These Fed Govt employess/contractors are a big boon to SD economy because SD is not paying for it. Not true for City/County employees, who are a big burden to local taxpayers. So we should fight the City/County jobs first.

[CA renter]

Now let’s say the bird-catcher negotiates an agreement with the other two to be the island’s government employee, and gets 1 coconut and 1 fish per day, guaranteed, if he spends just 1/3 of the time catching birds, and continues to give 2/3 of his daily catch to the other 2.
———————-

Totally false argument.

What evidence do you have that shows the govt employee is less efficient than the other two?

I’ve worked in both public and private industries.

-The standards for public employment (education and experience) are much higher than equivalent private employment.

-Oversight of public employees is standardized, more thorough, and has provisions which help minimize nepotism and favoritism, giving superior employees greater ability to move to more responsible positons. Nothing is perfect, and one can certainly take issue with some seniority clauses, but overall, it’s much more likely to reward better and more efficient employees.

-Public employess are held to a much higher standard due to liability issues. Let’s take a public vs. private police force. With public police, the city is liable for any wrongdoing on the part of an officer. The city has deep pockets, and is constantly aware of the liability issue. Because of this, they institute very stringent controls over their officers, and the quality of service reflects that.

In my experience, the private industries don’t worry nearly as much about liability, because they figure the worst case scenario would force them into bankruptcy. Because of corporate protection, the owners/executives are rarely held responsible, so they are free to persue other ventures. There is much less quality control, IMHO.

It’s a bit like how our houses are built. Back when contruction workers were unionized, you got MUCH higher quality, though labor cost more. Now, we hire non-union illegal immigrants and other “unskilled” workers, pay them less, and the quality of workmanship suffers greatly. Oddly enough, though it’s cheaper to build homes today, they are more expensive than when built by journeyman craftsmen (even taking into consideration labor alone). What happened to the spread? It went to the HB companies — in the form of bloated compensation to executives and shareholders (a little bit). IOW, the cost savings will NOT be realized by the general public, and the housing stock will deteriorate more quickly…causing more environmental pollution (through tear-downs, R&R cabinets, roofs, siding, etc.) and taking more capital out of the economy to maintain and replace those structures.

So, you get lower-paid workers, still-high prices, and greater wealth for the very few at the top (you’re likely not one of them). This is what’s been happening to our country. As jobs have moved off-shore, the labor costs go down for the corporations, U.S. wages are fairly flat/down, and they still expect Americans to pay prices that would be more in-line with higher wages. We’ve used credit to fill-in the gap between lower wages and higher prices, and this credit bubble is the end result.

Nice going…

[CA renter]

Now let’s say the bird-catcher negotiates an agreement with the other two to be the island’s government employee, and gets 1 coconut and 1 fish per day, guaranteed, if he spends just 1/3 of the time catching birds, and continues to give 2/3 of his daily catch to the other 2.
———————-

Totally false argument.

What evidence do you have that shows the govt employee is less efficient than the other two?

I’ve worked in both public and private industries.

-The standards for public employment (education and experience) are much higher than equivalent private employment.

-Oversight of public employees is standardized, more thorough, and has provisions which help minimize nepotism and favoritism, giving superior employees greater ability to move to more responsible positons. Nothing is perfect, and one can certainly take issue with some seniority clauses, but overall, it’s much more likely to reward better and more efficient employees.

-Public employess are held to a much higher standard due to liability issues. Let’s take a public vs. private police force. With public police, the city is liable for any wrongdoing on the part of an officer. The city has deep pockets, and is constantly aware of the liability issue. Because of this, they institute very stringent controls over their officers, and the quality of service reflects that.

In my experience, the private industries don’t worry nearly as much about liability, because they figure the worst case scenario would force them into bankruptcy. Because of corporate protection, the owners/executives are rarely held responsible, so they are free to persue other ventures. There is much less quality control, IMHO.

It’s a bit like how our houses are built. Back when contruction workers were unionized, you got MUCH higher quality, though labor cost more. Now, we hire non-union illegal immigrants and other “unskilled” workers, pay them less, and the quality of workmanship suffers greatly. Oddly enough, though it’s cheaper to build homes today, they are more expensive than when built by journeyman craftsmen (even taking into consideration labor alone). What happened to the spread? It went to the HB companies — in the form of bloated compensation to executives and shareholders (a little bit). IOW, the cost savings will NOT be realized by the general public, and the housing stock will deteriorate more quickly…causing more environmental pollution (through tear-downs, R&R cabinets, roofs, siding, etc.) and taking more capital out of the economy to maintain and replace those structures.

So, you get lower-paid workers, still-high prices, and greater wealth for the very few at the top (you’re likely not one of them). This is what’s been happening to our country. As jobs have moved off-shore, the labor costs go down for the corporations, U.S. wages are fairly flat/down, and they still expect Americans to pay prices that would be more in-line with higher wages. We’ve used credit to fill-in the gap between lower wages and higher prices, and this credit bubble is the end result.

Nice going…

[CA renter]

Now let’s say the bird-catcher negotiates an agreement with the other two to be the island’s government employee, and gets 1 coconut and 1 fish per day, guaranteed, if he spends just 1/3 of the time catching birds, and continues to give 2/3 of his daily catch to the other 2.
———————-

Totally false argument.

What evidence do you have that shows the govt employee is less efficient than the other two?

I’ve worked in both public and private industries.

-The standards for public employment (education and experience) are much higher than equivalent private employment.

-Oversight of public employees is standardized, more thorough, and has provisions which help minimize nepotism and favoritism, giving superior employees greater ability to move to more responsible positons. Nothing is perfect, and one can certainly take issue with some seniority clauses, but overall, it’s much more likely to reward better and more efficient employees.

-Public employess are held to a much higher standard due to liability issues. Let’s take a public vs. private police force. With public police, the city is liable for any wrongdoing on the part of an officer. The city has deep pockets, and is constantly aware of the liability issue. Because of this, they institute very stringent controls over their officers, and the quality of service reflects that.

In my experience, the private industries don’t worry nearly as much about liability, because they figure the worst case scenario would force them into bankruptcy. Because of corporate protection, the owners/executives are rarely held responsible, so they are free to persue other ventures. There is much less quality control, IMHO.

It’s a bit like how our houses are built. Back when contruction workers were unionized, you got MUCH higher quality, though labor cost more. Now, we hire non-union illegal immigrants and other “unskilled” workers, pay them less, and the quality of workmanship suffers greatly. Oddly enough, though it’s cheaper to build homes today, they are more expensive than when built by journeyman craftsmen (even taking into consideration labor alone). What happened to the spread? It went to the HB companies — in the form of bloated compensation to executives and shareholders (a little bit). IOW, the cost savings will NOT be realized by the general public, and the housing stock will deteriorate more quickly…causing more environmental pollution (through tear-downs, R&R cabinets, roofs, siding, etc.) and taking more capital out of the economy to maintain and replace those structures.

So, you get lower-paid workers, still-high prices, and greater wealth for the very few at the top (you’re likely not one of them). This is what’s been happening to our country. As jobs have moved off-shore, the labor costs go down for the corporations, U.S. wages are fairly flat/down, and they still expect Americans to pay prices that would be more in-line with higher wages. We’ve used credit to fill-in the gap between lower wages and higher prices, and this credit bubble is the end result.

Nice going…

[CA renter]

Now let’s say the bird-catcher negotiates an agreement with the other two to be the island’s government employee, and gets 1 coconut and 1 fish per day, guaranteed, if he spends just 1/3 of the time catching birds, and continues to give 2/3 of his daily catch to the other 2.
———————-

Totally false argument.

What evidence do you have that shows the govt employee is less efficient than the other two?

I’ve worked in both public and private industries.

-The standards for public employment (education and experience) are much higher than equivalent private employment.

-Oversight of public employees is standardized, more thorough, and has provisions which help minimize nepotism and favoritism, giving superior employees greater ability to move to more responsible positons. Nothing is perfect, and one can certainly take issue with some seniority clauses, but overall, it’s much more likely to reward better and more efficient employees.

-Public employess are held to a much higher standard due to liability issues. Let’s take a public vs. private police force. With public police, the city is liable for any wrongdoing on the part of an officer. The city has deep pockets, and is constantly aware of the liability issue. Because of this, they institute very stringent controls over their officers, and the quality of service reflects that.

In my experience, the private industries don’t worry nearly as much about liability, because they figure the worst case scenario would force them into bankruptcy. Because of corporate protection, the owners/executives are rarely held responsible, so they are free to persue other ventures. There is much less quality control, IMHO.

It’s a bit like how our houses are built. Back when contruction workers were unionized, you got MUCH higher quality, though labor cost more. Now, we hire non-union illegal immigrants and other “unskilled” workers, pay them less, and the quality of workmanship suffers greatly. Oddly enough, though it’s cheaper to build homes today, they are more expensive than when built by journeyman craftsmen (even taking into consideration labor alone). What happened to the spread? It went to the HB companies — in the form of bloated compensation to executives and shareholders (a little bit). IOW, the cost savings will NOT be realized by the general public, and the housing stock will deteriorate more quickly…causing more environmental pollution (through tear-downs, R&R cabinets, roofs, siding, etc.) and taking more capital out of the economy to maintain and replace those structures.

So, you get lower-paid workers, still-high prices, and greater wealth for the very few at the top (you’re likely not one of them). This is what’s been happening to our country. As jobs have moved off-shore, the labor costs go down for the corporations, U.S. wages are fairly flat/down, and they still expect Americans to pay prices that would be more in-line with higher wages. We’ve used credit to fill-in the gap between lower wages and higher prices, and this credit bubble is the end result.

Nice going…

[CA renter]

Now let’s say the bird-catcher negotiates an agreement with the other two to be the island’s government employee, and gets 1 coconut and 1 fish per day, guaranteed, if he spends just 1/3 of the time catching birds, and continues to give 2/3 of his daily catch to the other 2.
———————-

Totally false argument.

What evidence do you have that shows the govt employee is less efficient than the other two?

I’ve worked in both public and private industries.

-The standards for public employment (education and experience) are much higher than equivalent private employment.

-Oversight of public employees is standardized, more thorough, and has provisions which help minimize nepotism and favoritism, giving superior employees greater ability to move to more responsible positons. Nothing is perfect, and one can certainly take issue with some seniority clauses, but overall, it’s much more likely to reward better and more efficient employees.

-Public employess are held to a much higher standard due to liability issues. Let’s take a public vs. private police force. With public police, the city is liable for any wrongdoing on the part of an officer. The city has deep pockets, and is constantly aware of the liability issue. Because of this, they institute very stringent controls over their officers, and the quality of service reflects that.

In my experience, the private industries don’t worry nearly as much about liability, because they figure the worst case scenario would force them into bankruptcy. Because of corporate protection, the owners/executives are rarely held responsible, so they are free to persue other ventures. There is much less quality control, IMHO.

It’s a bit like how our houses are built. Back when contruction workers were unionized, you got MUCH higher quality, though labor cost more. Now, we hire non-union illegal immigrants and other “unskilled” workers, pay them less, and the quality of workmanship suffers greatly. Oddly enough, though it’s cheaper to build homes today, they are more expensive than when built by journeyman craftsmen (even taking into consideration labor alone). What happened to the spread? It went to the HB companies — in the form of bloated compensation to executives and shareholders (a little bit). IOW, the cost savings will NOT be realized by the general public, and the housing stock will deteriorate more quickly…causing more environmental pollution (through tear-downs, R&R cabinets, roofs, siding, etc.) and taking more capital out of the economy to maintain and replace those structures.

So, you get lower-paid workers, still-high prices, and greater wealth for the very few at the top (you’re likely not one of them). This is what’s been happening to our country. As jobs have moved off-shore, the labor costs go down for the corporations, U.S. wages are fairly flat/down, and they still expect Americans to pay prices that would be more in-line with higher wages. We’ve used credit to fill-in the gap between lower wages and higher prices, and this credit bubble is the end result.

Nice going…

[CDMA ENG]

My grandfather use to tell me about the same stories about ALCOA. When he was a young guy and couldnt make ends meet as a barber he took up a second job at ALCOA in Phoenix. He told me quickly figured out that it would only take him 20 minutes to reach his qoute on a pressing machine then he would go to the bathroom and sleep in the stalls with an egg timer. But while he was busting out his quota the other workers would give him crap for working so fast and call him a brown-noser and generally make the same comments to him that they do your wife.

My grandfather is one of the hardest working men I have ever met. Still works 40 plus hours a week at his barber shop in Mesa and has become a local icon. He’s 86. Guess it went on “back when” too.

As for the comment by TheBreeze about Obama’s elemintaion of waste… Dude! Are you kidding me? The ONLY reason the Dems would fire anyone is cause there simply wont be any money in the goverment coffers. I am convince that there is very little fundamental difference between Obama and Mc Cain. I was a big Mc Cain supporter at the begining but it is now clear to me that niether of them are capable for this job. I am complete depressed between, as South Park commented, a Douche and a Big Turd Sandwich.

Oink Oink,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

My grandfather use to tell me about the same stories about ALCOA. When he was a young guy and couldnt make ends meet as a barber he took up a second job at ALCOA in Phoenix. He told me quickly figured out that it would only take him 20 minutes to reach his qoute on a pressing machine then he would go to the bathroom and sleep in the stalls with an egg timer. But while he was busting out his quota the other workers would give him crap for working so fast and call him a brown-noser and generally make the same comments to him that they do your wife.

My grandfather is one of the hardest working men I have ever met. Still works 40 plus hours a week at his barber shop in Mesa and has become a local icon. He’s 86. Guess it went on “back when” too.

As for the comment by TheBreeze about Obama’s elemintaion of waste… Dude! Are you kidding me? The ONLY reason the Dems would fire anyone is cause there simply wont be any money in the goverment coffers. I am convince that there is very little fundamental difference between Obama and Mc Cain. I was a big Mc Cain supporter at the begining but it is now clear to me that niether of them are capable for this job. I am complete depressed between, as South Park commented, a Douche and a Big Turd Sandwich.

Oink Oink,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

My grandfather use to tell me about the same stories about ALCOA. When he was a young guy and couldnt make ends meet as a barber he took up a second job at ALCOA in Phoenix. He told me quickly figured out that it would only take him 20 minutes to reach his qoute on a pressing machine then he would go to the bathroom and sleep in the stalls with an egg timer. But while he was busting out his quota the other workers would give him crap for working so fast and call him a brown-noser and generally make the same comments to him that they do your wife.

My grandfather is one of the hardest working men I have ever met. Still works 40 plus hours a week at his barber shop in Mesa and has become a local icon. He’s 86. Guess it went on “back when” too.

As for the comment by TheBreeze about Obama’s elemintaion of waste… Dude! Are you kidding me? The ONLY reason the Dems would fire anyone is cause there simply wont be any money in the goverment coffers. I am convince that there is very little fundamental difference between Obama and Mc Cain. I was a big Mc Cain supporter at the begining but it is now clear to me that niether of them are capable for this job. I am complete depressed between, as South Park commented, a Douche and a Big Turd Sandwich.

Oink Oink,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

My grandfather use to tell me about the same stories about ALCOA. When he was a young guy and couldnt make ends meet as a barber he took up a second job at ALCOA in Phoenix. He told me quickly figured out that it would only take him 20 minutes to reach his qoute on a pressing machine then he would go to the bathroom and sleep in the stalls with an egg timer. But while he was busting out his quota the other workers would give him crap for working so fast and call him a brown-noser and generally make the same comments to him that they do your wife.

My grandfather is one of the hardest working men I have ever met. Still works 40 plus hours a week at his barber shop in Mesa and has become a local icon. He’s 86. Guess it went on “back when” too.

As for the comment by TheBreeze about Obama’s elemintaion of waste… Dude! Are you kidding me? The ONLY reason the Dems would fire anyone is cause there simply wont be any money in the goverment coffers. I am convince that there is very little fundamental difference between Obama and Mc Cain. I was a big Mc Cain supporter at the begining but it is now clear to me that niether of them are capable for this job. I am complete depressed between, as South Park commented, a Douche and a Big Turd Sandwich.

Oink Oink,

CE

[CDMA ENG]

My grandfather use to tell me about the same stories about ALCOA. When he was a young guy and couldnt make ends meet as a barber he took up a second job at ALCOA in Phoenix. He told me quickly figured out that it would only take him 20 minutes to reach his qoute on a pressing machine then he would go to the bathroom and sleep in the stalls with an egg timer. But while he was busting out his quota the other workers would give him crap for working so fast and call him a brown-noser and generally make the same comments to him that they do your wife.

My grandfather is one of the hardest working men I have ever met. Still works 40 plus hours a week at his barber shop in Mesa and has become a local icon. He’s 86. Guess it went on “back when” too.

As for the comment by TheBreeze about Obama’s elemintaion of waste… Dude! Are you kidding me? The ONLY reason the Dems would fire anyone is cause there simply wont be any money in the goverment coffers. I am convince that there is very little fundamental difference between Obama and Mc Cain. I was a big Mc Cain supporter at the begining but it is now clear to me that niether of them are capable for this job. I am complete depressed between, as South Park commented, a Douche and a Big Turd Sandwich.

Oink Oink,

CE

[jficquette]

Generally speakin anyone with any prespective knows that government is essentially worthless and its employees are generally overpaid and underworked.

I have dealt with the IRS as an Accountant, FHA -Va as a builder, RTC as a staffing provider. I have yet to see any government ran organization that wasn’t a joke.

The only reason you have all these employees anyway is because the democrats want them on the payroll for the votes.

John

[jficquette]

Generally speakin anyone with any prespective knows that government is essentially worthless and its employees are generally overpaid and underworked.

I have dealt with the IRS as an Accountant, FHA -Va as a builder, RTC as a staffing provider. I have yet to see any government ran organization that wasn’t a joke.

The only reason you have all these employees anyway is because the democrats want them on the payroll for the votes.

John

[jficquette]

Generally speakin anyone with any prespective knows that government is essentially worthless and its employees are generally overpaid and underworked.

I have dealt with the IRS as an Accountant, FHA -Va as a builder, RTC as a staffing provider. I have yet to see any government ran organization that wasn’t a joke.

The only reason you have all these employees anyway is because the democrats want them on the payroll for the votes.

John

[jficquette]

Generally speakin anyone with any prespective knows that government is essentially worthless and its employees are generally overpaid and underworked.

I have dealt with the IRS as an Accountant, FHA -Va as a builder, RTC as a staffing provider. I have yet to see any government ran organization that wasn’t a joke.

The only reason you have all these employees anyway is because the democrats want them on the payroll for the votes.

John

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