Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai

[paddyoh]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

……My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.

I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.

Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.

It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA……

I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK…..

IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.[/quote]

Allan from Fallbrook: How many decades does it take for Americans to trust American Made again when all the evidence, as you concede, points to “quality” being “fairly level” with the imports ?

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

As for Jeff Bridges, I totally agree with you.

If you have followed my posts, you will notice I never demand, insist or try to badger anyone into calling Jeff Bridges on the carpet over the Hyundai commercials ( fiasco IMO ). I simply ask. In what I feel to be a respectful manner.

Jeff Bridges can “shill” for whomever he likes. It is still a “free country”. But does shilling for Hyundai make it right? Especially at this particular time in history?

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

Honest debate good !

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

I am all ears my friend.

Hyundai’s buck forty nine a gallon gas for a year isn’t going to help GM’s problems. While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

China and India are anxiously waiting in the wings for us to drop the ball again.

Ask Jeff Bridges to stop the Hyundai ads now before it’s too late.

http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355

Tic Toc. Tic Toc. Tic…. Toc….

[paddyoh]

[quote=Cabal]
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.[/quote]

Cabal: I am totally with you on that idea buddy. As for the rest of your post. Not so much.

The crux of my “Buy American pitch” is: right now, given the times, at this point in history, because of the situation we are in, etc.

Timing is everything.

And it’s time to stop the Jeff Bridges Hyundai advertising juggernaut in it’s tracks. Now.

Please join me.

http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355

The gravity of our situation deserves it.

[paddyoh]

[quote=Cabal]
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.[/quote]

Cabal: I am totally with you on that idea buddy. As for the rest of your post. Not so much.

The crux of my “Buy American pitch” is: right now, given the times, at this point in history, because of the situation we are in, etc.

Timing is everything.

And it’s time to stop the Jeff Bridges Hyundai advertising juggernaut in it’s tracks. Now.

Please join me.

http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355

The gravity of our situation deserves it.

[paddyoh]

[quote=Cabal]
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.[/quote]

Cabal: I am totally with you on that idea buddy. As for the rest of your post. Not so much.

The crux of my “Buy American pitch” is: right now, given the times, at this point in history, because of the situation we are in, etc.

Timing is everything.

And it’s time to stop the Jeff Bridges Hyundai advertising juggernaut in it’s tracks. Now.

Please join me.

http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355

The gravity of our situation deserves it.

[paddyoh]

[quote=Cabal]
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.[/quote]

Cabal: I am totally with you on that idea buddy. As for the rest of your post. Not so much.

The crux of my “Buy American pitch” is: right now, given the times, at this point in history, because of the situation we are in, etc.

Timing is everything.

And it’s time to stop the Jeff Bridges Hyundai advertising juggernaut in it’s tracks. Now.

Please join me.

http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355

The gravity of our situation deserves it.

[paddyoh]

[quote=Cabal]
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.[/quote]

Cabal: I am totally with you on that idea buddy. As for the rest of your post. Not so much.

The crux of my “Buy American pitch” is: right now, given the times, at this point in history, because of the situation we are in, etc.

Timing is everything.

And it’s time to stop the Jeff Bridges Hyundai advertising juggernaut in it’s tracks. Now.

Please join me.

http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355

The gravity of our situation deserves it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.[/quote]

…or google…or microsoft (ok maybe not that one)…or qualcomm….or intel…..

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.[/quote]

…or google…or microsoft (ok maybe not that one)…or qualcomm….or intel…..

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.[/quote]

…or google…or microsoft (ok maybe not that one)…or qualcomm….or intel…..

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=paddyoh]

What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?

Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?

Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)

Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?

I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.

At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.

If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?

While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.

[/quote]

Paddy: In terms of “more reasonable labor rates”, I’m going to fall back on my accounting background and opine that what constitutes a more reasonable labor rate is one that doesn’t put the company out of business.

Does that mean I’m anti-labor? Nope, far from it. However, a look at history teaches us that GM, Ford and Mopar were essentially bludgeoned into acceptance of the union’s demands in the 1950s and things went downhill from there.

I read an article by a financially astute pundit who wrote that GM wound up as the world’s largest health insurer that also happened to make and sell cars. The liability tail that they were carrying became unsustainable and there is no debating that point. Do you know why? If you are being honest when you answer that question, you’ll acknowledge the responsibility of the UAW and AFL-CIO in creating and propagating the problem.

Does my saying that mean I’m anti-union and against the American auto worker? No, it doesn’t. What it does mean is that I can look at that situation and see it for what it is: Unsustainable and the result of suicidal negotiating positions by the unions. If what I am saying wasn’t true, GM and Mopar would be ticking along quite happily right now, thank you very much.

I challenge you to refute that assertion and with facts, please. Don’t try and twist it to mean that anyone questioning the unions is anti-labor or anti-American. The jingoistic pseudo-patriotism inherent to your call to us as Americans is unconscionable and hews closely to Dubya’s “You’re with us or against us” nonsense.

Consumers make choices and those companies best able to meet those demands and do so in the most efficient way possible win the business.

I run my own company and I compete every day against players not only bigger than me, but with a longer history in our industry. I win some and I lose some, but I know to compete vigorously and pull out all the stops when doing so. If I forget what makes me successful, or begin to take my clients for granted, I will lose them and eventually will lose my business. It’s that simple. Stay competitive or perish.

Whether it’s GM or the corner barber, the game is the same.

I’ll finish with a good example to rebut what I’m sure will be your follow up argument regarding an unfair playing field with foreign companies.

The US semiconductor industry in the 1980s complained, and justifiably so, about the Japanese policy of “dumping” (undercutting US companies through manipulative pricing schemes). The US government, as always, proved to be of little help in combating this problem. Do you know what ultimately happened? The US companies beat the Japanese by innovating better, engineering better and, ultimately, offering products that the Japanese, even with their government supporting their unfair schemes, couldn’t begin to match. The rest, as they say, is history.

You can tout GM, I’ll stick with Apple.[/quote]

…or google…or microsoft (ok maybe not that one)…or qualcomm….or intel…..

[Author]

Posts