Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai
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July 12, 2009 at 4:57 PM #429413July 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM #428678
Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=paddyoh]
It is 2009.
Auto industry observers who have been around awhile might arguably admit that the 1970’s and 80’s were not the best of times for the American Auto Industry.
And, arguably, we let / helped the Japanese point that out to us ( The Big 3 ) and major strides in American quality were made.
But, with all due respect, that was pretty much 30 to 40 years ago. Almost half a century now.
There have been a lot of crummy imports of all ethnicities before, during and along the way.
American Made cars have proven to be just as good as / reliable as any of the imports for maybe 20 years or more now.
How many years does it take before one let’s go of the past and grasps the present and future of the American auto industry ?
As for the present, my original point to this post was basically, what can we as Americans do now, to ensure that what we “let” the Japanese do to us 35 years ago not happen again with Korea, India and China. Must history continue to repeat itself ?
Take a teenie, tiny, itsy-bitsy step, and join me in respectfully asking Jeff Bridges to deep six the Hyundai voice-overs, jump ship to his “alma mater” and prove, once and for all, that charity begins at home.
[/quote]
Paddy: If we look at the American auto industry from it’s humble beginnings with Henry Ford’s Model T (which was the original clunker) to about 1974/1975 (when things started to turn bad for Detroit’s Big Three), there was a period of some 60+ years when Americans were ferociously brand loyal to Detroit.
My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement).
It is a financially unsustainable model at work and it needs to be corrected. I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK. I hope that they embrace this second chance and move to restore GM to her former glory.
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.
July 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM #428900Participant[quote=paddyoh]
It is 2009.
Auto industry observers who have been around awhile might arguably admit that the 1970’s and 80’s were not the best of times for the American Auto Industry.
And, arguably, we let / helped the Japanese point that out to us ( The Big 3 ) and major strides in American quality were made.
But, with all due respect, that was pretty much 30 to 40 years ago. Almost half a century now.
There have been a lot of crummy imports of all ethnicities before, during and along the way.
American Made cars have proven to be just as good as / reliable as any of the imports for maybe 20 years or more now.
How many years does it take before one let’s go of the past and grasps the present and future of the American auto industry ?
As for the present, my original point to this post was basically, what can we as Americans do now, to ensure that what we “let” the Japanese do to us 35 years ago not happen again with Korea, India and China. Must history continue to repeat itself ?
Take a teenie, tiny, itsy-bitsy step, and join me in respectfully asking Jeff Bridges to deep six the Hyundai voice-overs, jump ship to his “alma mater” and prove, once and for all, that charity begins at home.
[/quote]
Paddy: If we look at the American auto industry from it’s humble beginnings with Henry Ford’s Model T (which was the original clunker) to about 1974/1975 (when things started to turn bad for Detroit’s Big Three), there was a period of some 60+ years when Americans were ferociously brand loyal to Detroit.
My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement).
It is a financially unsustainable model at work and it needs to be corrected. I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK. I hope that they embrace this second chance and move to restore GM to her former glory.
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.
July 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM #429190Participant[quote=paddyoh]
It is 2009.
Auto industry observers who have been around awhile might arguably admit that the 1970’s and 80’s were not the best of times for the American Auto Industry.
And, arguably, we let / helped the Japanese point that out to us ( The Big 3 ) and major strides in American quality were made.
But, with all due respect, that was pretty much 30 to 40 years ago. Almost half a century now.
There have been a lot of crummy imports of all ethnicities before, during and along the way.
American Made cars have proven to be just as good as / reliable as any of the imports for maybe 20 years or more now.
How many years does it take before one let’s go of the past and grasps the present and future of the American auto industry ?
As for the present, my original point to this post was basically, what can we as Americans do now, to ensure that what we “let” the Japanese do to us 35 years ago not happen again with Korea, India and China. Must history continue to repeat itself ?
Take a teenie, tiny, itsy-bitsy step, and join me in respectfully asking Jeff Bridges to deep six the Hyundai voice-overs, jump ship to his “alma mater” and prove, once and for all, that charity begins at home.
[/quote]
Paddy: If we look at the American auto industry from it’s humble beginnings with Henry Ford’s Model T (which was the original clunker) to about 1974/1975 (when things started to turn bad for Detroit’s Big Three), there was a period of some 60+ years when Americans were ferociously brand loyal to Detroit.
My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement).
It is a financially unsustainable model at work and it needs to be corrected. I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK. I hope that they embrace this second chance and move to restore GM to her former glory.
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.
July 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM #429261Participant[quote=paddyoh]
It is 2009.
Auto industry observers who have been around awhile might arguably admit that the 1970’s and 80’s were not the best of times for the American Auto Industry.
And, arguably, we let / helped the Japanese point that out to us ( The Big 3 ) and major strides in American quality were made.
But, with all due respect, that was pretty much 30 to 40 years ago. Almost half a century now.
There have been a lot of crummy imports of all ethnicities before, during and along the way.
American Made cars have proven to be just as good as / reliable as any of the imports for maybe 20 years or more now.
How many years does it take before one let’s go of the past and grasps the present and future of the American auto industry ?
As for the present, my original point to this post was basically, what can we as Americans do now, to ensure that what we “let” the Japanese do to us 35 years ago not happen again with Korea, India and China. Must history continue to repeat itself ?
Take a teenie, tiny, itsy-bitsy step, and join me in respectfully asking Jeff Bridges to deep six the Hyundai voice-overs, jump ship to his “alma mater” and prove, once and for all, that charity begins at home.
[/quote]
Paddy: If we look at the American auto industry from it’s humble beginnings with Henry Ford’s Model T (which was the original clunker) to about 1974/1975 (when things started to turn bad for Detroit’s Big Three), there was a period of some 60+ years when Americans were ferociously brand loyal to Detroit.
My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement).
It is a financially unsustainable model at work and it needs to be corrected. I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK. I hope that they embrace this second chance and move to restore GM to her former glory.
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.
July 12, 2009 at 5:10 PM #429418Participant[quote=paddyoh]
It is 2009.
Auto industry observers who have been around awhile might arguably admit that the 1970’s and 80’s were not the best of times for the American Auto Industry.
And, arguably, we let / helped the Japanese point that out to us ( The Big 3 ) and major strides in American quality were made.
But, with all due respect, that was pretty much 30 to 40 years ago. Almost half a century now.
There have been a lot of crummy imports of all ethnicities before, during and along the way.
American Made cars have proven to be just as good as / reliable as any of the imports for maybe 20 years or more now.
How many years does it take before one let’s go of the past and grasps the present and future of the American auto industry ?
As for the present, my original point to this post was basically, what can we as Americans do now, to ensure that what we “let” the Japanese do to us 35 years ago not happen again with Korea, India and China. Must history continue to repeat itself ?
Take a teenie, tiny, itsy-bitsy step, and join me in respectfully asking Jeff Bridges to deep six the Hyundai voice-overs, jump ship to his “alma mater” and prove, once and for all, that charity begins at home.
[/quote]
Paddy: If we look at the American auto industry from it’s humble beginnings with Henry Ford’s Model T (which was the original clunker) to about 1974/1975 (when things started to turn bad for Detroit’s Big Three), there was a period of some 60+ years when Americans were ferociously brand loyal to Detroit.
My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA (collective bargaining agreement).
It is a financially unsustainable model at work and it needs to be corrected. I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK. I hope that they embrace this second chance and move to restore GM to her former glory.
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.
July 12, 2009 at 6:05 PM #428703cabal
Participant[quote=paddyoh][quote=PKMAN]Couldn’t help to jump back in…
Rt66, even though we’re on different sides and I think you are too radical in your view, I admire you for taking the time and the detail to defend the Big 2, while the original poster pretty much just sit on the sideline to watch a good fight and only jumping in occasionally…….. [/quote]
I’m guessin’ that “original poster” would be me.
In case you forgot, my original title for this forum was:
“Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai….”
The topic understandably turned to automobiles, manufacturers, etc. – which was fine by me. I’ve made it clear that I agree with Rt. 66 and his belief in buying American made cars, etc. He has made his case so thoroughly I honestly do not know what I can add to defend the documented quality of the American made automobile or the mass screwing of the American blue collar worker.
The bigger picture to me has become American apathy towards American Made goods – particularly cars manufactured in the U.S.A.
It just baffles me that there is so much venom spewed by Americans against American auto workers and American made cars. It would seem that much of that comes from outright jealousy that the American auto worker had the nerve to make a decent enough wage to own a home and send his or her kids to college. That jealousy is then channeled towards the American car itself.
Then there appears to be guilt. The shame of, in a way, selling out one’s own country during a time of nearly unparalleled crisis, by buying a third world automobile and then trying to justify it by blaming it on unfounded, inferior American quality.
There are no doubt people here who have purchased an American made car that turned out to be a lemon. They have a legitimate gripe and may never buy anything other than an imported car again.
But, all the jealousy, guilt, shame, anger or whatever else is the motivation, does not change the fact that we are all still Americans. Maybe, at the end of the day, we can stop sweating the small stuff and pull together to help fix what the politicians cannot.
By buying American again, or even consciously making an effort to buy American made again, right now, today, even if it hurts or costs more, we can make a tiny step forward in restoring our sorely-needed manufacturing base. Americans did it during the World Wars. Why not now ?
Given the pickle we are in, I don’t think you can consider it protectionism. Nor blind patriotism, or being foolish with your money. Right now, today, it just makes sense.
Please take a few minutes of your time to ask Jeff Bridges to use his clout as a major celebrity and publicly renounce the Hyundai commercials and jump on the American Made bandwagon.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355%5B/quote%5D
No doubt the big 3s reliability and durability have improved in recent years and you could get one to last 150K miles. However, look at any reputable reliability survey and the Japanese cars statistically still win hands down. Even if the statistical edge is .01% and your main criteria is reliability, why would you not take advantage of it ? We all know the cost of repairs after warranty. You can’t leave a shop without coughing up a few hundred bucks even for the smallest repair, and if you’re a typical middle class family living check to check, why subject your family to that potential extra financial strain.
Let’s never forget that GM is a business like any other business whose ultimate goal is to turn a profit and create value for their shareholders. In other words, they don’t really care about you or the well being of your family. Any charity, sponsorship, community service, or random act of kindness to the general public cleverly disguised in the form of core business principles, is only performed to support that goal. Second, I don’t understand why people try to link love of country with support of a business whose profits stay private. Private profits whether it’s GM or Toyota can be benefitted by the public by simply buying their stock. Playing the Patriot card as a marketing tool to shame loyal Americans into buying a statistically inferior product from a company with an unsustainable cost structure is about as unamerican as it gets, bordering on socialism. Tough love intervention bankruptcy is the best solution for GM at this time. I truly hope they take this second/third chance and reemerge with the right focus to reestablish themselves as a global force for the sake of all those whose livelihood depend on it.
I am one of those that fell for the buy American marketing trick in the 80s. It was a GM and a piece of crap that gave me a lot of headaches especially with the dealer. I owned it for about 2 years and decided to sell it to cut my losses. Then I purchased my first foreign car, a Toyota Celica GT-S. Aside from regular maintenance, tires, etc., the only other cost was a new radiator at 180K. I drove it 250K miles with no more problems before selling it. I was sold.
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.
July 12, 2009 at 6:05 PM #428925Participant[quote=paddyoh][quote=PKMAN]Couldn’t help to jump back in…
Rt66, even though we’re on different sides and I think you are too radical in your view, I admire you for taking the time and the detail to defend the Big 2, while the original poster pretty much just sit on the sideline to watch a good fight and only jumping in occasionally…….. [/quote]
I’m guessin’ that “original poster” would be me.
In case you forgot, my original title for this forum was:
“Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai….”
The topic understandably turned to automobiles, manufacturers, etc. – which was fine by me. I’ve made it clear that I agree with Rt. 66 and his belief in buying American made cars, etc. He has made his case so thoroughly I honestly do not know what I can add to defend the documented quality of the American made automobile or the mass screwing of the American blue collar worker.
The bigger picture to me has become American apathy towards American Made goods – particularly cars manufactured in the U.S.A.
It just baffles me that there is so much venom spewed by Americans against American auto workers and American made cars. It would seem that much of that comes from outright jealousy that the American auto worker had the nerve to make a decent enough wage to own a home and send his or her kids to college. That jealousy is then channeled towards the American car itself.
Then there appears to be guilt. The shame of, in a way, selling out one’s own country during a time of nearly unparalleled crisis, by buying a third world automobile and then trying to justify it by blaming it on unfounded, inferior American quality.
There are no doubt people here who have purchased an American made car that turned out to be a lemon. They have a legitimate gripe and may never buy anything other than an imported car again.
But, all the jealousy, guilt, shame, anger or whatever else is the motivation, does not change the fact that we are all still Americans. Maybe, at the end of the day, we can stop sweating the small stuff and pull together to help fix what the politicians cannot.
By buying American again, or even consciously making an effort to buy American made again, right now, today, even if it hurts or costs more, we can make a tiny step forward in restoring our sorely-needed manufacturing base. Americans did it during the World Wars. Why not now ?
Given the pickle we are in, I don’t think you can consider it protectionism. Nor blind patriotism, or being foolish with your money. Right now, today, it just makes sense.
Please take a few minutes of your time to ask Jeff Bridges to use his clout as a major celebrity and publicly renounce the Hyundai commercials and jump on the American Made bandwagon.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355%5B/quote%5D
No doubt the big 3s reliability and durability have improved in recent years and you could get one to last 150K miles. However, look at any reputable reliability survey and the Japanese cars statistically still win hands down. Even if the statistical edge is .01% and your main criteria is reliability, why would you not take advantage of it ? We all know the cost of repairs after warranty. You can’t leave a shop without coughing up a few hundred bucks even for the smallest repair, and if you’re a typical middle class family living check to check, why subject your family to that potential extra financial strain.
Let’s never forget that GM is a business like any other business whose ultimate goal is to turn a profit and create value for their shareholders. In other words, they don’t really care about you or the well being of your family. Any charity, sponsorship, community service, or random act of kindness to the general public cleverly disguised in the form of core business principles, is only performed to support that goal. Second, I don’t understand why people try to link love of country with support of a business whose profits stay private. Private profits whether it’s GM or Toyota can be benefitted by the public by simply buying their stock. Playing the Patriot card as a marketing tool to shame loyal Americans into buying a statistically inferior product from a company with an unsustainable cost structure is about as unamerican as it gets, bordering on socialism. Tough love intervention bankruptcy is the best solution for GM at this time. I truly hope they take this second/third chance and reemerge with the right focus to reestablish themselves as a global force for the sake of all those whose livelihood depend on it.
I am one of those that fell for the buy American marketing trick in the 80s. It was a GM and a piece of crap that gave me a lot of headaches especially with the dealer. I owned it for about 2 years and decided to sell it to cut my losses. Then I purchased my first foreign car, a Toyota Celica GT-S. Aside from regular maintenance, tires, etc., the only other cost was a new radiator at 180K. I drove it 250K miles with no more problems before selling it. I was sold.
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.
July 12, 2009 at 6:05 PM #429215Participant[quote=paddyoh][quote=PKMAN]Couldn’t help to jump back in…
Rt66, even though we’re on different sides and I think you are too radical in your view, I admire you for taking the time and the detail to defend the Big 2, while the original poster pretty much just sit on the sideline to watch a good fight and only jumping in occasionally…….. [/quote]
I’m guessin’ that “original poster” would be me.
In case you forgot, my original title for this forum was:
“Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai….”
The topic understandably turned to automobiles, manufacturers, etc. – which was fine by me. I’ve made it clear that I agree with Rt. 66 and his belief in buying American made cars, etc. He has made his case so thoroughly I honestly do not know what I can add to defend the documented quality of the American made automobile or the mass screwing of the American blue collar worker.
The bigger picture to me has become American apathy towards American Made goods – particularly cars manufactured in the U.S.A.
It just baffles me that there is so much venom spewed by Americans against American auto workers and American made cars. It would seem that much of that comes from outright jealousy that the American auto worker had the nerve to make a decent enough wage to own a home and send his or her kids to college. That jealousy is then channeled towards the American car itself.
Then there appears to be guilt. The shame of, in a way, selling out one’s own country during a time of nearly unparalleled crisis, by buying a third world automobile and then trying to justify it by blaming it on unfounded, inferior American quality.
There are no doubt people here who have purchased an American made car that turned out to be a lemon. They have a legitimate gripe and may never buy anything other than an imported car again.
But, all the jealousy, guilt, shame, anger or whatever else is the motivation, does not change the fact that we are all still Americans. Maybe, at the end of the day, we can stop sweating the small stuff and pull together to help fix what the politicians cannot.
By buying American again, or even consciously making an effort to buy American made again, right now, today, even if it hurts or costs more, we can make a tiny step forward in restoring our sorely-needed manufacturing base. Americans did it during the World Wars. Why not now ?
Given the pickle we are in, I don’t think you can consider it protectionism. Nor blind patriotism, or being foolish with your money. Right now, today, it just makes sense.
Please take a few minutes of your time to ask Jeff Bridges to use his clout as a major celebrity and publicly renounce the Hyundai commercials and jump on the American Made bandwagon.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355%5B/quote%5D
No doubt the big 3s reliability and durability have improved in recent years and you could get one to last 150K miles. However, look at any reputable reliability survey and the Japanese cars statistically still win hands down. Even if the statistical edge is .01% and your main criteria is reliability, why would you not take advantage of it ? We all know the cost of repairs after warranty. You can’t leave a shop without coughing up a few hundred bucks even for the smallest repair, and if you’re a typical middle class family living check to check, why subject your family to that potential extra financial strain.
Let’s never forget that GM is a business like any other business whose ultimate goal is to turn a profit and create value for their shareholders. In other words, they don’t really care about you or the well being of your family. Any charity, sponsorship, community service, or random act of kindness to the general public cleverly disguised in the form of core business principles, is only performed to support that goal. Second, I don’t understand why people try to link love of country with support of a business whose profits stay private. Private profits whether it’s GM or Toyota can be benefitted by the public by simply buying their stock. Playing the Patriot card as a marketing tool to shame loyal Americans into buying a statistically inferior product from a company with an unsustainable cost structure is about as unamerican as it gets, bordering on socialism. Tough love intervention bankruptcy is the best solution for GM at this time. I truly hope they take this second/third chance and reemerge with the right focus to reestablish themselves as a global force for the sake of all those whose livelihood depend on it.
I am one of those that fell for the buy American marketing trick in the 80s. It was a GM and a piece of crap that gave me a lot of headaches especially with the dealer. I owned it for about 2 years and decided to sell it to cut my losses. Then I purchased my first foreign car, a Toyota Celica GT-S. Aside from regular maintenance, tires, etc., the only other cost was a new radiator at 180K. I drove it 250K miles with no more problems before selling it. I was sold.
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.
July 12, 2009 at 6:05 PM #429285Participant[quote=paddyoh][quote=PKMAN]Couldn’t help to jump back in…
Rt66, even though we’re on different sides and I think you are too radical in your view, I admire you for taking the time and the detail to defend the Big 2, while the original poster pretty much just sit on the sideline to watch a good fight and only jumping in occasionally…….. [/quote]
I’m guessin’ that “original poster” would be me.
In case you forgot, my original title for this forum was:
“Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai….”
The topic understandably turned to automobiles, manufacturers, etc. – which was fine by me. I’ve made it clear that I agree with Rt. 66 and his belief in buying American made cars, etc. He has made his case so thoroughly I honestly do not know what I can add to defend the documented quality of the American made automobile or the mass screwing of the American blue collar worker.
The bigger picture to me has become American apathy towards American Made goods – particularly cars manufactured in the U.S.A.
It just baffles me that there is so much venom spewed by Americans against American auto workers and American made cars. It would seem that much of that comes from outright jealousy that the American auto worker had the nerve to make a decent enough wage to own a home and send his or her kids to college. That jealousy is then channeled towards the American car itself.
Then there appears to be guilt. The shame of, in a way, selling out one’s own country during a time of nearly unparalleled crisis, by buying a third world automobile and then trying to justify it by blaming it on unfounded, inferior American quality.
There are no doubt people here who have purchased an American made car that turned out to be a lemon. They have a legitimate gripe and may never buy anything other than an imported car again.
But, all the jealousy, guilt, shame, anger or whatever else is the motivation, does not change the fact that we are all still Americans. Maybe, at the end of the day, we can stop sweating the small stuff and pull together to help fix what the politicians cannot.
By buying American again, or even consciously making an effort to buy American made again, right now, today, even if it hurts or costs more, we can make a tiny step forward in restoring our sorely-needed manufacturing base. Americans did it during the World Wars. Why not now ?
Given the pickle we are in, I don’t think you can consider it protectionism. Nor blind patriotism, or being foolish with your money. Right now, today, it just makes sense.
Please take a few minutes of your time to ask Jeff Bridges to use his clout as a major celebrity and publicly renounce the Hyundai commercials and jump on the American Made bandwagon.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355%5B/quote%5D
No doubt the big 3s reliability and durability have improved in recent years and you could get one to last 150K miles. However, look at any reputable reliability survey and the Japanese cars statistically still win hands down. Even if the statistical edge is .01% and your main criteria is reliability, why would you not take advantage of it ? We all know the cost of repairs after warranty. You can’t leave a shop without coughing up a few hundred bucks even for the smallest repair, and if you’re a typical middle class family living check to check, why subject your family to that potential extra financial strain.
Let’s never forget that GM is a business like any other business whose ultimate goal is to turn a profit and create value for their shareholders. In other words, they don’t really care about you or the well being of your family. Any charity, sponsorship, community service, or random act of kindness to the general public cleverly disguised in the form of core business principles, is only performed to support that goal. Second, I don’t understand why people try to link love of country with support of a business whose profits stay private. Private profits whether it’s GM or Toyota can be benefitted by the public by simply buying their stock. Playing the Patriot card as a marketing tool to shame loyal Americans into buying a statistically inferior product from a company with an unsustainable cost structure is about as unamerican as it gets, bordering on socialism. Tough love intervention bankruptcy is the best solution for GM at this time. I truly hope they take this second/third chance and reemerge with the right focus to reestablish themselves as a global force for the sake of all those whose livelihood depend on it.
I am one of those that fell for the buy American marketing trick in the 80s. It was a GM and a piece of crap that gave me a lot of headaches especially with the dealer. I owned it for about 2 years and decided to sell it to cut my losses. Then I purchased my first foreign car, a Toyota Celica GT-S. Aside from regular maintenance, tires, etc., the only other cost was a new radiator at 180K. I drove it 250K miles with no more problems before selling it. I was sold.
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.
July 12, 2009 at 6:05 PM #429441Participant[quote=paddyoh][quote=PKMAN]Couldn’t help to jump back in…
Rt66, even though we’re on different sides and I think you are too radical in your view, I admire you for taking the time and the detail to defend the Big 2, while the original poster pretty much just sit on the sideline to watch a good fight and only jumping in occasionally…….. [/quote]
I’m guessin’ that “original poster” would be me.
In case you forgot, my original title for this forum was:
“Time for Jeff Bridges to dump Hyundai….”
The topic understandably turned to automobiles, manufacturers, etc. – which was fine by me. I’ve made it clear that I agree with Rt. 66 and his belief in buying American made cars, etc. He has made his case so thoroughly I honestly do not know what I can add to defend the documented quality of the American made automobile or the mass screwing of the American blue collar worker.
The bigger picture to me has become American apathy towards American Made goods – particularly cars manufactured in the U.S.A.
It just baffles me that there is so much venom spewed by Americans against American auto workers and American made cars. It would seem that much of that comes from outright jealousy that the American auto worker had the nerve to make a decent enough wage to own a home and send his or her kids to college. That jealousy is then channeled towards the American car itself.
Then there appears to be guilt. The shame of, in a way, selling out one’s own country during a time of nearly unparalleled crisis, by buying a third world automobile and then trying to justify it by blaming it on unfounded, inferior American quality.
There are no doubt people here who have purchased an American made car that turned out to be a lemon. They have a legitimate gripe and may never buy anything other than an imported car again.
But, all the jealousy, guilt, shame, anger or whatever else is the motivation, does not change the fact that we are all still Americans. Maybe, at the end of the day, we can stop sweating the small stuff and pull together to help fix what the politicians cannot.
By buying American again, or even consciously making an effort to buy American made again, right now, today, even if it hurts or costs more, we can make a tiny step forward in restoring our sorely-needed manufacturing base. Americans did it during the World Wars. Why not now ?
Given the pickle we are in, I don’t think you can consider it protectionism. Nor blind patriotism, or being foolish with your money. Right now, today, it just makes sense.
Please take a few minutes of your time to ask Jeff Bridges to use his clout as a major celebrity and publicly renounce the Hyundai commercials and jump on the American Made bandwagon.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355%5B/quote%5D
No doubt the big 3s reliability and durability have improved in recent years and you could get one to last 150K miles. However, look at any reputable reliability survey and the Japanese cars statistically still win hands down. Even if the statistical edge is .01% and your main criteria is reliability, why would you not take advantage of it ? We all know the cost of repairs after warranty. You can’t leave a shop without coughing up a few hundred bucks even for the smallest repair, and if you’re a typical middle class family living check to check, why subject your family to that potential extra financial strain.
Let’s never forget that GM is a business like any other business whose ultimate goal is to turn a profit and create value for their shareholders. In other words, they don’t really care about you or the well being of your family. Any charity, sponsorship, community service, or random act of kindness to the general public cleverly disguised in the form of core business principles, is only performed to support that goal. Second, I don’t understand why people try to link love of country with support of a business whose profits stay private. Private profits whether it’s GM or Toyota can be benefitted by the public by simply buying their stock. Playing the Patriot card as a marketing tool to shame loyal Americans into buying a statistically inferior product from a company with an unsustainable cost structure is about as unamerican as it gets, bordering on socialism. Tough love intervention bankruptcy is the best solution for GM at this time. I truly hope they take this second/third chance and reemerge with the right focus to reestablish themselves as a global force for the sake of all those whose livelihood depend on it.
I am one of those that fell for the buy American marketing trick in the 80s. It was a GM and a piece of crap that gave me a lot of headaches especially with the dealer. I owned it for about 2 years and decided to sell it to cut my losses. Then I purchased my first foreign car, a Toyota Celica GT-S. Aside from regular maintenance, tires, etc., the only other cost was a new radiator at 180K. I drove it 250K miles with no more problems before selling it. I was sold.
Here’s a tip to the new GM from the voice of the customer. In addition to Caddy, Buick, and Chevy, consider another niche division called Classics. The concept is to simply resurrect the old classic body styles from the late 60s/early 70s unmodified, but package it with fully modern internals. The product line could start with bodies from the 67-69 Camaro/Z-28 and Firebird, 72 Cutlass 442, 70 Chevelle and Skylark. If reasonably priced, I would buy one in a second.
July 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM #428720paddyoh
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
……My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA……
I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK…..
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.[/quote]
Allan from Fallbrook: How many decades does it take for Americans to trust American Made again when all the evidence, as you concede, points to “quality” being “fairly level” with the imports ?
What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?
Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?
Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)
As for Jeff Bridges, I totally agree with you.
If you have followed my posts, you will notice I never demand, insist or try to badger anyone into calling Jeff Bridges on the carpet over the Hyundai commercials ( fiasco IMO ). I simply ask. In what I feel to be a respectful manner.
Jeff Bridges can “shill” for whomever he likes. It is still a “free country”. But does shilling for Hyundai make it right? Especially at this particular time in history?
Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?
I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.
At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.
Honest debate good !
If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?
I am all ears my friend.
Hyundai’s buck forty nine a gallon gas for a year isn’t going to help GM’s problems. While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.
China and India are anxiously waiting in the wings for us to drop the ball again.
Ask Jeff Bridges to stop the Hyundai ads now before it’s too late.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355
Tic Toc. Tic Toc. Tic…. Toc….
July 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM #428942Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
……My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA……
I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK…..
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.[/quote]
Allan from Fallbrook: How many decades does it take for Americans to trust American Made again when all the evidence, as you concede, points to “quality” being “fairly level” with the imports ?
What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?
Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?
Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)
As for Jeff Bridges, I totally agree with you.
If you have followed my posts, you will notice I never demand, insist or try to badger anyone into calling Jeff Bridges on the carpet over the Hyundai commercials ( fiasco IMO ). I simply ask. In what I feel to be a respectful manner.
Jeff Bridges can “shill” for whomever he likes. It is still a “free country”. But does shilling for Hyundai make it right? Especially at this particular time in history?
Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?
I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.
At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.
Honest debate good !
If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?
I am all ears my friend.
Hyundai’s buck forty nine a gallon gas for a year isn’t going to help GM’s problems. While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.
China and India are anxiously waiting in the wings for us to drop the ball again.
Ask Jeff Bridges to stop the Hyundai ads now before it’s too late.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355
Tic Toc. Tic Toc. Tic…. Toc….
July 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM #429230Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
……My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA……
I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK…..
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.[/quote]
Allan from Fallbrook: How many decades does it take for Americans to trust American Made again when all the evidence, as you concede, points to “quality” being “fairly level” with the imports ?
What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?
Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?
Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)
As for Jeff Bridges, I totally agree with you.
If you have followed my posts, you will notice I never demand, insist or try to badger anyone into calling Jeff Bridges on the carpet over the Hyundai commercials ( fiasco IMO ). I simply ask. In what I feel to be a respectful manner.
Jeff Bridges can “shill” for whomever he likes. It is still a “free country”. But does shilling for Hyundai make it right? Especially at this particular time in history?
Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?
I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.
At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.
Honest debate good !
If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?
I am all ears my friend.
Hyundai’s buck forty nine a gallon gas for a year isn’t going to help GM’s problems. While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.
China and India are anxiously waiting in the wings for us to drop the ball again.
Ask Jeff Bridges to stop the Hyundai ads now before it’s too late.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355
Tic Toc. Tic Toc. Tic…. Toc….
July 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM #429301Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
……My point is that it takes a while to build loyalty and, once lost, it will take a long time to restore it.
I don’t argue that quality is now fairly level amongst American and Japanese brands, however, the perception that Japanese cars are superior is still fairly strong.
Moreover, until Detroit is able to negotiate more reasonable labor rates, GM and Chrysler will both still be playing from behind.
It is especially telling that Obama chose to screw the corporate bondholders of Chrysler, but was absolutely unwilling to take on the unions and the CBA……
I’m rooting for GM and was very heartened by how quickly they exited BK…..
IMHO, Jeff Bridges can shill for whomever he likes. Whether or not we embrace the notion of “Buy American” first, we can all still agree that this is a free country. Or, it used to be.[/quote]
Allan from Fallbrook: How many decades does it take for Americans to trust American Made again when all the evidence, as you concede, points to “quality” being “fairly level” with the imports ?
What are “more reasonable labor rates” in your opinion ? Less or more than the job you have ? Are you against Unions in general or just for auto workers ?
Is it a “financially unsustainable model at work” because it allows American workers to make a better living for themselves than Third World workers ? Working for Third World companies with substantially less overhead; vis a vis the environment, health care, protecting workers, retirement and so forth ?
Or is it just that you would like to see American Autos selling for the price of Korean or Chinese made cars period ? (Wal Mart car prices, so to speak.)
As for Jeff Bridges, I totally agree with you.
If you have followed my posts, you will notice I never demand, insist or try to badger anyone into calling Jeff Bridges on the carpet over the Hyundai commercials ( fiasco IMO ). I simply ask. In what I feel to be a respectful manner.
Jeff Bridges can “shill” for whomever he likes. It is still a “free country”. But does shilling for Hyundai make it right? Especially at this particular time in history?
Living in a free country, you, as an American, have the right to make that decision for yourself. Either in private – or in a public forum such as this one. Pretty cool system we have here, eh ?
I started this post looking for answers to a problem but, most of what I hear are excuses and gripes. Many of them appear valid. Many of them not valid at all.
At least Obama is doing SOMETHING. He is, for better or worse, raising awareness of all the ins and outs of this complicated and expensive problem; as evidenced by this ongoing forum.
Honest debate good !
If you are truly “rooting for GM” what do YOU think the everyday American can do to help out ?
I am all ears my friend.
Hyundai’s buck forty nine a gallon gas for a year isn’t going to help GM’s problems. While we are debating the nuances of four wheel transportation, HIE-YUN-DIE continues to quietly steal market share.
China and India are anxiously waiting in the wings for us to drop the ball again.
Ask Jeff Bridges to stop the Hyundai ads now before it’s too late.
http://nicko62.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3268355
Tic Toc. Tic Toc. Tic…. Toc….
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