This is still a seller’s market

[DaisyDuke]

Desperate Sellers are cropping up every day. I know of at least six of them close to foreclosure in my area. They have their homes listed but they are also in default.

Sad thing is they bought their home within the last three years and they can’t sell them for what they own on them. It’s only going to get worse.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

asianautica –

You took the words right off my fingertips. By lendingbubbleco’s definition it’s always a sellers market for people who bought 10+ years ago. Under virtually ALL conditions.

However, regardless of semantics I think the majority here would agree on the following:
1. Now is not a good time to Buy. Regardless of what the market is called.
2. Buyers have control in negotiations (traditionally called a “buyers market”).
3. Sellers who price their properties appropriately and purchased years ago are still making a decent profit, and in some cases tremendous profits
4. The Earth is not flat.

[bubble_contagion]

It is not a sellers or a buyers market. It is a renters market.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

It is not a sellers or a buyers market. It is a renters market.

Playing devil’s advocate and taking a stance analogous to the original post, isn’t it really a landlord’s market, not a renter’s market. ?
There are many landlords out there who bought their property in the mid-80’s for 125K. They are charging $1800 / month rent, grossing 25% on their investment. Even worse, they are only spending $300 a month for the place and sticking it to the renter for an additional $1500 per month.

I say it’s a landlord’s market, not a renter’s market.

[sdcellar]

Yeah, unless your landlord is like mine and he’s chowing down at least $1,500 a month. As you pointed out, it all depends on when a home was purchased.

It’s not all roses for me though, as I must consider how long he can continue to afford doing that…

[sdrealtor]

SD R,

Here’s your recent quote:

“As a potential buyer I am still very frustrated by the fact that pricing has not come anywhere close to what I would consider reasonable levels. It is not just the homeowners selling that frustrates me either, the REO, short sales and foreclosures are still priced at higher points as well. Yes the market times have grown as has inventory. Yet there STILL are buyers out there and they STILL are paying prices that I will not pay.”

If I remember correctly, you tried to sell your home and did not because you couldnt get the price you wanted. Your decision to hold onto that property because you wouldn’t lower the price, means you ARE EFFECTIVELY PAYING TODAY’S PRICES.

[SD Realtor]

sdr –

You are correct. I did indeed try to sell my home in late 05 but the slide had already happened and given the equity I have in it and the rent I am receiving, it is a good deal to hold onto it. Also my decision not to sell was made with the knowledge that it will be a long term decision, (at least several years) whereas many people fell off the market only to come back on with hopes for a change in the overall conditions. As you see I have not reentered the market.

As you AND I know, sellers with decent equity are probably going to be the last people to lower thier prices or they simply come off of the market. Still though I am puzzled by the duration of some of the short sales, REO, and foreclosure listings. Doesn’t that puzzle you as well? I guess you could say I am effectively paying todays prices but I am renting right now so I am not sure if I agree with you. I don’t think I am effectively paying todays prices until I buy a home.

So given the 15-16k resale homes/condos on the market today, do you think the bulk of sellers are like me, high equity in the home, give it a shot, and if it doesn’t sell pull it off? I guess this could be true and will keep the market at it’s current levels until the profiles of the sellers change to be dominated by more desperate sellers.

AN – you are correct. You said that you and I are not serious buyers. I would say you and I are serious buyers if we get the price we like. Until then, I would categorize us as selective buyers.

[an]

I guess it’s a semantic. To me, serious buyers are buyers who would be at the current price the market will bare. So with that definition, we’re not serious buyers. You’re right, we’re serious buyers if we get the price we like. We are definitely selective buyers :-).

I think it’s always the weak handed seller that set the price. So the people will lots of equity and does not need to sell, they will go away. The one that’s left are the one that have to sell. They will set the comp. Once the comp is set, the buyer will want less than that for the next home, etc. So we just have to wait and see how many weak handed sellers are out there this spring selling season. Then there’s the easy money from the bank, seems like the easy money is still alive and well.

[bubble_contagion]

You cannot say it’s a landlord market because your example doesn’t apply to all landlords. On the other hand, all renters are paying less than if they would buy at today’s prices. It is not a buyers market because of this same reason and the fact that appreciation will not return until at least two years from today. If you are a seller that bought long time ago it is still a very good market.

My take:

-Great renter market
-Great landlord or seller market for some
-Poor buyer market

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

bubble_contagion –

You cannot say it’s a landlord market because your example doesn’t apply to all landlords.

Then, you cannot call it a seller’s market because your justification does not apply to all sellers either. I was simply using the same flawed logic that you used to call it a seller’s market. Anyway, I’m glad we finally agree.

[sdrealtor]

sd r,

My comment was based upon something I use with my seller’s that i have had great luck with. When they are evaluating an offer that I feel is a very fair offer, I explain that by saying NO to someone who will pay X dollars today they are in essence making the decision to rebuy their home today at X dollars. When you say you will NOT pay today’s prices and you own RE that you are holding onto, you are doing the same thing.

Regarding the REO business, i know some very big players in that market and from what I have seen the lenders are very slow in adapting to the market and responding to offers.

I’m curious as to how you feel your 1% listing business model is holding up these days. You know I dont believe it’s sustainable in anything but a booming seller’s market. What percentage of your listings sold in 2006? With my full service model I sold 100% with an average market time of approx 2 months and not 1 of my listings was relisted after 45,60,90 etc. days.

sdr

[masayako]

Who cares what market it is?!

Buyer’s market? Seller’s market? Whatever.

You have money in your hand, it’s your market.

In other words, if you have no money in your hand, it’s the other guy’s market.

[DaisyDuke]

Indeed. Well put. But, we don’t want it to be the

I D 10 T’s market

so, that’s why we all signed on. To help each other save our hard earned cha ching.

DD

[SD Realtor]

sdr –

I find your statements quite curious.

As you already know, I do not feel that the amount of money that goes towards real estate is justified at all. Real estate professionals, brokerages, and the industry in general have enjoyed the appreciation of housing and reaped tremendous benefits without really innovating the industry. I am not saying you do not work hard, I am just saying that if you sold 10 homes in 1998 and then sold those same 10 homes in 2004, I don’t think the amount of work you did was any different yet your increase in salary was quite substantial.

Has your full service improved as much as your net income has grown due to housing apprecitation?

I also believe that the entire real estate machine from NAR on down pretty much reeks. We are salesman sdrealtor, not much more or less then that. I am sure you are top notch and have done a valuable service to all of your clients and I am not disparaging you personally at all, NOR HAVE I EVER DONE SO. I am very happy to say we have different opinions on how much compensation we “deserve” for our jobs and have been quite content to leave it at that but you obviously are not and continue to go out of your way to prove any alternative other then your “full service” approach will fail including FSBO.

Your animosity towards me has been present since day 1 and I do not sweat it at all. More then once you have brought up my own house that was on the market, accused me of shilling, and here you are posting your perfect record and asking me about my stats. I am sure after I post them you will accuse me of shilling or you will say why would anyone list with me. If I don’t list them you will accuse me of hiding from your questioning.

In addition to real estate I direct a staff of electrical engineers for custom ASIC architecture for network and communications designs. My life is not greatly affected regardless of how my brokerage does. I offer people alternatives and commission rebates. My clients all think very highly of me and that is what is important to me. I think it is actually somewhat curious that an electrical engineer can come in, do this part time and be as successful as I have been.

I give people my opinion as to what they should sell thier homes for but if they want to price thier home different, that is fine with me, I take the listing and tell them quite honestly what I think of thier pricing and what affect it will have on traffic they will see or not see. If the home is not priced right the home does not sell and the listing will expire and/or cancel. Since you seem to have a great interest in what I do you can look the homes that have expired or cancelled and see what they repriced with when they worked with another agent. In EVERY case they repriced less. My own sister in law works for the same organization you do, and I have referred clients to her with no problem.

I have nothing to hide sdr however will not put the addresses of my listings as you would most likely accuse me of not following the code of the Realtors. My stats this year are as follows:

2006 Closings – 17

2006 Expireds – 20

I did not include multiple expirations on the same property in that list.

Out of those expireds, 4 of them relisted with me and sold. 1 of those expireds relisted with me and is pending. 1 of them relisted with me and is still active. 10 did not relist with anyone. 4 of them relisted with another brokerage, 3 are active and 1 is pending.

[SD Realtor]

sdr –

I find your statements quite curious.

As you already know, I do not feel that the amount of money that goes towards real estate is justified at all. Real estate professionals, brokerages, and the industry in general have enjoyed the appreciation of housing and reaped tremendous benefits without really innovating the industry. I am not saying you do not work hard, I am just saying that if you sold 10 homes in 1998 and then sold those same 10 homes in 2004, I don’t think the amount of work you did was any different yet your increase in salary was quite substantial.

Has your full service improved as much as your net income has grown due to housing apprecitation?

I also believe that the entire real estate machine from NAR on down pretty much reeks. We are salesman sdrealtor, not much more or less then that. I am sure you are top notch and have done a valuable service to all of your clients and I am not disparaging you personally at all, NOR HAVE I EVER DONE SO. I am very happy to say we have different opinions on how much compensation we “deserve” for our jobs and have been quite content to leave it at that but you obviously are not and continue to go out of your way to prove any alternative other then your “full service” approach will fail including FSBO.

Your animosity towards me has been present since day 1 and I do not sweat it at all. More then once you have brought up my own house that was on the market, accused me of shilling, and here you are posting your perfect record and asking me about my stats. I am sure after I post them you will accuse me of shilling or you will say why would anyone list with me. If I don’t list them you will accuse me of hiding from your questioning.

In addition to real estate I direct a staff of electrical engineers for custom ASIC architecture for network and communications designs. My life is not greatly affected regardless of how my brokerage does. I offer people alternatives and commission rebates. My clients all think very highly of me and that is what is important to me. I think it is actually somewhat curious that an electrical engineer can come in, do this part time and be as successful as I have been.

I give people my opinion as to what they should sell thier homes for but if they want to price thier home different, that is fine with me, I take the listing and tell them quite honestly what I think of thier pricing and what affect it will have on traffic they will see or not see. If the home is not priced right the home does not sell and the listing will expire and/or cancel. Since you seem to have a great interest in what I do you can look the homes that have expired or cancelled and see what they repriced with when they worked with another agent. In EVERY case they repriced less. My own sister in law works for the same organization you do, and I have referred clients to her with no problem.

I have nothing to hide sdr however will not put the addresses of my listings as you would most likely accuse me of not following the code of the Realtors. My stats this year are as follows:

2006 Closings – 17

2006 Expireds – 20

I did not include multiple expirations on the same property in that list.

Out of those expireds, 4 of them relisted with me and sold. 1 of those expireds relisted with me and is pending. 1 of them relisted with me and is still active. 10 did not relist with anyone. 4 of them relisted with another brokerage, 3 are active and 1 is pending.

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