Terrorism

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Arraya][quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=Arraya][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Pri: Then, if I apply your logic, he is an enemy combatant wearing a US Army uniform, correct?

Under Geneva, that makes him a spy and subject to summary execution. I’m not being sarcastic or snarky when I say this, I’m applying your thinking to its logical end.[/quote]

Sure, why not. Go for that prosecution, if you think it will stick.

Of course different cases could be made and ALL the dots are not known. Surely you would need some sort of conspiring, which according to the CIA was not going on. Because they deemed him not a danger to bring up to the Army.

But, you really were not talking legally, though, were you Allan?[/quote]

Arraya: Actually, I was. As far as the CIA missing something, well, Arraya, come on. You’re not really going to use that to buttress your argument, are you? Saying that the CIA missed something significant is akin to noting that the sky is blue. Hell, its almost a tautology.

No, there is precedent here (think Otto Skorzeny’s operatives during the German Ardennes offensive in late 1944). If, in fact, he entered Ft. Hood with the stated intent of firing upon American soldiers (and his possession of two illegal firearms would certainly seem to make that part of the case) and doing so as a de facto enemy combatant (and many of the posters here are making the distinction between enemy combatant and terrorist), then he was, in essence, an enemy soldier wearing the uniform of the US Army.[/quote]

No Allan, I was referring to your original conviction of terrorism.

I understand you want him be convicted of being a foreign agent and enemy of the state and the more I look at it, I am sure that can be achieved in some way.

Was it a religion the drove him to do what he did or extreme psychological duress like John Russell a few months ago? This is the line the surveyor so wants everybody to understand. That it was his muslim-ness. And muslim-ness should be on trial. We start to go into orwellian thought control with this sort of BS, it’s just like mccarthyism, what was he thinking. When did he switch to the other side. Nonsense.

Terrorism has been legally finagled away from it’s original meaning over the bush years to include a myriad of things. Now it’s pretty much anybody that is thinking radical things. But, I digress

Considering, he was doing, what mental health professionals recommend you do during times of extreme stress, which is reach out for help, the whole thing starts to stink.

Now follow my logic here. I’ll concede what ever conviction you want, this guy was way too obvious. He was a stark raving lunatic, now that I see all the data coming in.

Which leads to the spooks. What exactly did they know?

Just another keystone cop incident with great PR appeal, I guess.

So far, according to reports, this guy was:

Asking to get our continuously
Giving presentations on why he could become dangerous and should be let out.
Making crazy muslim religious gestures for YEARS to everybody around him
Was followed for 6 months by the CIA
-Did they not notice ANY of this behavior?
-Did they not look at his record?
Contacting known extremists

And from all this the concluded, that he was not a danger. It’s almost laughable.

People think about this

He gave fucking reports that being a muslim was incompatible with being in the military and would lead to violence. The report is on the net, it is interesting.

This was in his record.

Do we really think the CIA did not know this OR LOOK AT HIS RECORD.

So follow this, the CIA looks at his record and it says being a muslim in the armed services will lead to violence and I need to get out because I am about to snap, which is pretty much the summation of the report. And they conclude “Oh, this guy is fine, no danger here????? ” are you kidding me?

They let it happen people! This was a allowed to happen for troop rallying purposes. Yes, he slowly lost his mind and switched sides to radical islam AND HE WAS WATCHED THE WHOLE FUCKING WAY!!

What is more evil, Allan. Just presume I could have a point. Is it the religion or the people the use it for political purposes and allow their own people to die to prove a point.

The whole thing is bullshit. Just like everything else.

It’s managed and provoked people, for emotional and imperial goals.[/quote]

I actually don’t have response to arraya here.
I just wanted to do the super-long-quote-thing.

@allan :
regarding the earlier post:
Sorry, I really just figured your name sounded Jewish (thought in retrospect I suppose it could be Austrian).
And I don’t mean to be a dick about the military thing.
While I see myself as agnostic now, the whole charity and mercy thing always seemed at odds to me with taking life.
And, like I said, I simultaneously greatly appreciate what said killers do for my quality of life.

Regarding the bloody history of Muslim conquest:
I agree that armed violence was a salient feature in the establishing days of Muslim imperialism. I also agree that it is a salient feature of current nominally Muslim resistance movements.

I do actually read history (liberal or not) and watch the news.

My disagreement with surveyor’s post was not about either of those. It was specifically about the assertion that the religion itself had in its primary text armed violence as a salient feature.

Again, it is not one of the 5 principles.

I am aware of wahabist madrasas that teach boys to memorize prayers and join operations in the service of religiously-couched violence. This is not in dispute.

However, this is all a part of interpretation in the service of political aims. Imperialism is by definition political as are resistance movements.

However, in fairness to you (and surveyor) those political agendas became part of the Islamic landscape very early on.

It is worthy of note that the 2 periods of violence referenced in anti-muslim bigotry are always during A: empire-building in the ancient era or B: resistance in the modern era.

As far as taxes upon other Abrahmists, when viewed in context its not so bad. Taxes are better than torture, extermination, or forced baptisms (like the Christians did).

[NotCranky]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=briansd1]Conservatives think that what was done by parents and grand-parents have no bearing on today’s society, hence no need for affirmation action and programs to give opportunities to disadvantaged citizens.[/quote]

I’m a white boy from the Midwest. Every minority that works in my office was far less “disadvantaged” than I was growing up.

But skip the reality, let’s just generalize and say everyone of a certain race is disadvantaged and everyone of another race in not. Deny an opportunity for one person and give it to another based upon superficial characteristics. This will make the world a better place. Anyone who disagrees is a racist.

But your inane comments have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, so kindly STFU.

I think we’ve beaten this thread to death anyway. Here’s all we need to know about this incident:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort?utm_source=onion_rss_daily%5B/quote%5D
Is your midwestern upbringing really a comparison to generations of abuse slaves suffered and the discrimination post slavery? I would think you would have had to have the most awfully abusive and sabotaging parents for that to be even close to true. Then maybe there would be something to compare. Even if that were the case then you are still white… I believe that that did convey some advantages to you.

I think a lot of people are making great strides but it is unreasonable to say that slavery has no impacts anymore. Within the realm of individual human developement slavery and over the top oppressive racism was just yesterday, as Brian says.

[NotCranky]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=briansd1]Conservatives think that what was done by parents and grand-parents have no bearing on today’s society, hence no need for affirmation action and programs to give opportunities to disadvantaged citizens.[/quote]

I’m a white boy from the Midwest. Every minority that works in my office was far less “disadvantaged” than I was growing up.

But skip the reality, let’s just generalize and say everyone of a certain race is disadvantaged and everyone of another race in not. Deny an opportunity for one person and give it to another based upon superficial characteristics. This will make the world a better place. Anyone who disagrees is a racist.

But your inane comments have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, so kindly STFU.

I think we’ve beaten this thread to death anyway. Here’s all we need to know about this incident:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort?utm_source=onion_rss_daily%5B/quote%5D
Is your midwestern upbringing really a comparison to generations of abuse slaves suffered and the discrimination post slavery? I would think you would have had to have the most awfully abusive and sabotaging parents for that to be even close to true. Then maybe there would be something to compare. Even if that were the case then you are still white… I believe that that did convey some advantages to you.

I think a lot of people are making great strides but it is unreasonable to say that slavery has no impacts anymore. Within the realm of individual human developement slavery and over the top oppressive racism was just yesterday, as Brian says.

[NotCranky]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=briansd1]Conservatives think that what was done by parents and grand-parents have no bearing on today’s society, hence no need for affirmation action and programs to give opportunities to disadvantaged citizens.[/quote]

I’m a white boy from the Midwest. Every minority that works in my office was far less “disadvantaged” than I was growing up.

But skip the reality, let’s just generalize and say everyone of a certain race is disadvantaged and everyone of another race in not. Deny an opportunity for one person and give it to another based upon superficial characteristics. This will make the world a better place. Anyone who disagrees is a racist.

But your inane comments have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, so kindly STFU.

I think we’ve beaten this thread to death anyway. Here’s all we need to know about this incident:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort?utm_source=onion_rss_daily%5B/quote%5D
Is your midwestern upbringing really a comparison to generations of abuse slaves suffered and the discrimination post slavery? I would think you would have had to have the most awfully abusive and sabotaging parents for that to be even close to true. Then maybe there would be something to compare. Even if that were the case then you are still white… I believe that that did convey some advantages to you.

I think a lot of people are making great strides but it is unreasonable to say that slavery has no impacts anymore. Within the realm of individual human developement slavery and over the top oppressive racism was just yesterday, as Brian says.

[NotCranky]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=briansd1]Conservatives think that what was done by parents and grand-parents have no bearing on today’s society, hence no need for affirmation action and programs to give opportunities to disadvantaged citizens.[/quote]

I’m a white boy from the Midwest. Every minority that works in my office was far less “disadvantaged” than I was growing up.

But skip the reality, let’s just generalize and say everyone of a certain race is disadvantaged and everyone of another race in not. Deny an opportunity for one person and give it to another based upon superficial characteristics. This will make the world a better place. Anyone who disagrees is a racist.

But your inane comments have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, so kindly STFU.

I think we’ve beaten this thread to death anyway. Here’s all we need to know about this incident:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort?utm_source=onion_rss_daily%5B/quote%5D
Is your midwestern upbringing really a comparison to generations of abuse slaves suffered and the discrimination post slavery? I would think you would have had to have the most awfully abusive and sabotaging parents for that to be even close to true. Then maybe there would be something to compare. Even if that were the case then you are still white… I believe that that did convey some advantages to you.

I think a lot of people are making great strides but it is unreasonable to say that slavery has no impacts anymore. Within the realm of individual human developement slavery and over the top oppressive racism was just yesterday, as Brian says.

[NotCranky]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=briansd1]Conservatives think that what was done by parents and grand-parents have no bearing on today’s society, hence no need for affirmation action and programs to give opportunities to disadvantaged citizens.[/quote]

I’m a white boy from the Midwest. Every minority that works in my office was far less “disadvantaged” than I was growing up.

But skip the reality, let’s just generalize and say everyone of a certain race is disadvantaged and everyone of another race in not. Deny an opportunity for one person and give it to another based upon superficial characteristics. This will make the world a better place. Anyone who disagrees is a racist.

But your inane comments have nothing to do with the topic of this thread, so kindly STFU.

I think we’ve beaten this thread to death anyway. Here’s all we need to know about this incident:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/american_muslims_to_fort?utm_source=onion_rss_daily%5B/quote%5D
Is your midwestern upbringing really a comparison to generations of abuse slaves suffered and the discrimination post slavery? I would think you would have had to have the most awfully abusive and sabotaging parents for that to be even close to true. Then maybe there would be something to compare. Even if that were the case then you are still white… I believe that that did convey some advantages to you.

I think a lot of people are making great strides but it is unreasonable to say that slavery has no impacts anymore. Within the realm of individual human developement slavery and over the top oppressive racism was just yesterday, as Brian says.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Now look at Surveyor’s rationale. I propose that he is under a similar psychosis as Hasan. After 6 years of war and many deaths in the ME he needs justification for what he is seeing. Whether it be nationalist or religious, which really are two sides of the same tribal coin, he needs muslim “terrorism” to feel justified. He needs every muslim to be a terrorist because he is human just like everybody else and hundreds of thousand deaths with the toll still rising, you need the enemy to be as vile and inhuman as possible to justify our collective acceptance of our military’s actions. Just as Hasan transferred his mental anguish to making the US military evil, Surveyor transfers his feelings to making all muslims evil.
[/quote]

Oh, so Hasan does the following things:

a) Validates the value of suicide bombing and discusses its approval under Islam
b) Teaches at a medical lecture that jews and infidels must be killed as per Koranic law
c) Makes statements that he is a muslim first and american second
d) Emails an imam who teaches him, under proper koranic principles as regularly taught by the Koran, that jihad is the duty of every muslim
e) Dresses up in white, gives away his belongings, and proceeds to yell Allah Akbar before killing people (the modus operandi of a terrorist suicide bomber)

I am the one who points out that Hasan believes he is acting according to the principles of islamic law and I show where he got the basis for this belief. Hasan’s modus operandi is that of a suicide bomber and those attacks are regarded as terroristic.

Ergo, I’m the one under a psychosis?

Sorry, Arraya. I didn’t realize that I should be mailing you tin foil hats from now on.

As I have pointed out ad nauseum, most muslims do not know and many of them do not care for the violent verses in the koran. It’s like Catholics who practice birth control. It’s not recommended by the church but they still do it.

There is an established pattern that emerges when a muslim becomes more religious, when he starts really delving into the koran and finding out exactly what it means. Some muslims have become alarmed and don’t do anything. Others start believing intensely the words in the koran and that is when they start becoming jihadists.

The thing is, jihadists tell you why they are killing jews and infidels. They say we are killing jews and infidels because the koran has commanded them to do so. Many of them have said that the existence of Israel has nothing to do with it. Many of them were saying these things before 9/11. Before Israel existed. Before the United States existed. So it does not matter if there is a war in the middle east and if our troops are commiting atrocities (big if). They say they have been commanded by god to make war upon the world and they say this is why they are attacking us.

And when I tell you this, I am not telling you as a theory or as my personal belief system that islam is violent or not. I am making no such judgments. I am telling you this is what they believe because this is what they are saying. These are the statements of jihadists everywhere.

Your response to all this has been “well jews kill people too” or “israel is evil” or “jews have violent verses and they act upon them too”. And I have taken pains to show you how they are different and how these statements are being echoed from history to now. And your final response to all this is now to call me a whack job and dismiss my facts altogether.

For this I get called a whack job. For basically “reporting.” That’s certainly intellectual of you.

Occam’s razor: consider that maybe instead of making all sorts of assumptions about me, my personality, my thought processes, and of me being a whack job, consider that all I am doing is telling you what they are saying and how they are saying it, which are all facts that can be easily checked.

Which of us is the whack job now?

By the way, your whole statement above is nothing more than a straw man argument. Logical fallacy. Anyone can see you are failing to even make a coherent argument.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Now look at Surveyor’s rationale. I propose that he is under a similar psychosis as Hasan. After 6 years of war and many deaths in the ME he needs justification for what he is seeing. Whether it be nationalist or religious, which really are two sides of the same tribal coin, he needs muslim “terrorism” to feel justified. He needs every muslim to be a terrorist because he is human just like everybody else and hundreds of thousand deaths with the toll still rising, you need the enemy to be as vile and inhuman as possible to justify our collective acceptance of our military’s actions. Just as Hasan transferred his mental anguish to making the US military evil, Surveyor transfers his feelings to making all muslims evil.
[/quote]

Oh, so Hasan does the following things:

a) Validates the value of suicide bombing and discusses its approval under Islam
b) Teaches at a medical lecture that jews and infidels must be killed as per Koranic law
c) Makes statements that he is a muslim first and american second
d) Emails an imam who teaches him, under proper koranic principles as regularly taught by the Koran, that jihad is the duty of every muslim
e) Dresses up in white, gives away his belongings, and proceeds to yell Allah Akbar before killing people (the modus operandi of a terrorist suicide bomber)

I am the one who points out that Hasan believes he is acting according to the principles of islamic law and I show where he got the basis for this belief. Hasan’s modus operandi is that of a suicide bomber and those attacks are regarded as terroristic.

Ergo, I’m the one under a psychosis?

Sorry, Arraya. I didn’t realize that I should be mailing you tin foil hats from now on.

As I have pointed out ad nauseum, most muslims do not know and many of them do not care for the violent verses in the koran. It’s like Catholics who practice birth control. It’s not recommended by the church but they still do it.

There is an established pattern that emerges when a muslim becomes more religious, when he starts really delving into the koran and finding out exactly what it means. Some muslims have become alarmed and don’t do anything. Others start believing intensely the words in the koran and that is when they start becoming jihadists.

The thing is, jihadists tell you why they are killing jews and infidels. They say we are killing jews and infidels because the koran has commanded them to do so. Many of them have said that the existence of Israel has nothing to do with it. Many of them were saying these things before 9/11. Before Israel existed. Before the United States existed. So it does not matter if there is a war in the middle east and if our troops are commiting atrocities (big if). They say they have been commanded by god to make war upon the world and they say this is why they are attacking us.

And when I tell you this, I am not telling you as a theory or as my personal belief system that islam is violent or not. I am making no such judgments. I am telling you this is what they believe because this is what they are saying. These are the statements of jihadists everywhere.

Your response to all this has been “well jews kill people too” or “israel is evil” or “jews have violent verses and they act upon them too”. And I have taken pains to show you how they are different and how these statements are being echoed from history to now. And your final response to all this is now to call me a whack job and dismiss my facts altogether.

For this I get called a whack job. For basically “reporting.” That’s certainly intellectual of you.

Occam’s razor: consider that maybe instead of making all sorts of assumptions about me, my personality, my thought processes, and of me being a whack job, consider that all I am doing is telling you what they are saying and how they are saying it, which are all facts that can be easily checked.

Which of us is the whack job now?

By the way, your whole statement above is nothing more than a straw man argument. Logical fallacy. Anyone can see you are failing to even make a coherent argument.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Now look at Surveyor’s rationale. I propose that he is under a similar psychosis as Hasan. After 6 years of war and many deaths in the ME he needs justification for what he is seeing. Whether it be nationalist or religious, which really are two sides of the same tribal coin, he needs muslim “terrorism” to feel justified. He needs every muslim to be a terrorist because he is human just like everybody else and hundreds of thousand deaths with the toll still rising, you need the enemy to be as vile and inhuman as possible to justify our collective acceptance of our military’s actions. Just as Hasan transferred his mental anguish to making the US military evil, Surveyor transfers his feelings to making all muslims evil.
[/quote]

Oh, so Hasan does the following things:

a) Validates the value of suicide bombing and discusses its approval under Islam
b) Teaches at a medical lecture that jews and infidels must be killed as per Koranic law
c) Makes statements that he is a muslim first and american second
d) Emails an imam who teaches him, under proper koranic principles as regularly taught by the Koran, that jihad is the duty of every muslim
e) Dresses up in white, gives away his belongings, and proceeds to yell Allah Akbar before killing people (the modus operandi of a terrorist suicide bomber)

I am the one who points out that Hasan believes he is acting according to the principles of islamic law and I show where he got the basis for this belief. Hasan’s modus operandi is that of a suicide bomber and those attacks are regarded as terroristic.

Ergo, I’m the one under a psychosis?

Sorry, Arraya. I didn’t realize that I should be mailing you tin foil hats from now on.

As I have pointed out ad nauseum, most muslims do not know and many of them do not care for the violent verses in the koran. It’s like Catholics who practice birth control. It’s not recommended by the church but they still do it.

There is an established pattern that emerges when a muslim becomes more religious, when he starts really delving into the koran and finding out exactly what it means. Some muslims have become alarmed and don’t do anything. Others start believing intensely the words in the koran and that is when they start becoming jihadists.

The thing is, jihadists tell you why they are killing jews and infidels. They say we are killing jews and infidels because the koran has commanded them to do so. Many of them have said that the existence of Israel has nothing to do with it. Many of them were saying these things before 9/11. Before Israel existed. Before the United States existed. So it does not matter if there is a war in the middle east and if our troops are commiting atrocities (big if). They say they have been commanded by god to make war upon the world and they say this is why they are attacking us.

And when I tell you this, I am not telling you as a theory or as my personal belief system that islam is violent or not. I am making no such judgments. I am telling you this is what they believe because this is what they are saying. These are the statements of jihadists everywhere.

Your response to all this has been “well jews kill people too” or “israel is evil” or “jews have violent verses and they act upon them too”. And I have taken pains to show you how they are different and how these statements are being echoed from history to now. And your final response to all this is now to call me a whack job and dismiss my facts altogether.

For this I get called a whack job. For basically “reporting.” That’s certainly intellectual of you.

Occam’s razor: consider that maybe instead of making all sorts of assumptions about me, my personality, my thought processes, and of me being a whack job, consider that all I am doing is telling you what they are saying and how they are saying it, which are all facts that can be easily checked.

Which of us is the whack job now?

By the way, your whole statement above is nothing more than a straw man argument. Logical fallacy. Anyone can see you are failing to even make a coherent argument.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Now look at Surveyor’s rationale. I propose that he is under a similar psychosis as Hasan. After 6 years of war and many deaths in the ME he needs justification for what he is seeing. Whether it be nationalist or religious, which really are two sides of the same tribal coin, he needs muslim “terrorism” to feel justified. He needs every muslim to be a terrorist because he is human just like everybody else and hundreds of thousand deaths with the toll still rising, you need the enemy to be as vile and inhuman as possible to justify our collective acceptance of our military’s actions. Just as Hasan transferred his mental anguish to making the US military evil, Surveyor transfers his feelings to making all muslims evil.
[/quote]

Oh, so Hasan does the following things:

a) Validates the value of suicide bombing and discusses its approval under Islam
b) Teaches at a medical lecture that jews and infidels must be killed as per Koranic law
c) Makes statements that he is a muslim first and american second
d) Emails an imam who teaches him, under proper koranic principles as regularly taught by the Koran, that jihad is the duty of every muslim
e) Dresses up in white, gives away his belongings, and proceeds to yell Allah Akbar before killing people (the modus operandi of a terrorist suicide bomber)

I am the one who points out that Hasan believes he is acting according to the principles of islamic law and I show where he got the basis for this belief. Hasan’s modus operandi is that of a suicide bomber and those attacks are regarded as terroristic.

Ergo, I’m the one under a psychosis?

Sorry, Arraya. I didn’t realize that I should be mailing you tin foil hats from now on.

As I have pointed out ad nauseum, most muslims do not know and many of them do not care for the violent verses in the koran. It’s like Catholics who practice birth control. It’s not recommended by the church but they still do it.

There is an established pattern that emerges when a muslim becomes more religious, when he starts really delving into the koran and finding out exactly what it means. Some muslims have become alarmed and don’t do anything. Others start believing intensely the words in the koran and that is when they start becoming jihadists.

The thing is, jihadists tell you why they are killing jews and infidels. They say we are killing jews and infidels because the koran has commanded them to do so. Many of them have said that the existence of Israel has nothing to do with it. Many of them were saying these things before 9/11. Before Israel existed. Before the United States existed. So it does not matter if there is a war in the middle east and if our troops are commiting atrocities (big if). They say they have been commanded by god to make war upon the world and they say this is why they are attacking us.

And when I tell you this, I am not telling you as a theory or as my personal belief system that islam is violent or not. I am making no such judgments. I am telling you this is what they believe because this is what they are saying. These are the statements of jihadists everywhere.

Your response to all this has been “well jews kill people too” or “israel is evil” or “jews have violent verses and they act upon them too”. And I have taken pains to show you how they are different and how these statements are being echoed from history to now. And your final response to all this is now to call me a whack job and dismiss my facts altogether.

For this I get called a whack job. For basically “reporting.” That’s certainly intellectual of you.

Occam’s razor: consider that maybe instead of making all sorts of assumptions about me, my personality, my thought processes, and of me being a whack job, consider that all I am doing is telling you what they are saying and how they are saying it, which are all facts that can be easily checked.

Which of us is the whack job now?

By the way, your whole statement above is nothing more than a straw man argument. Logical fallacy. Anyone can see you are failing to even make a coherent argument.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Now look at Surveyor’s rationale. I propose that he is under a similar psychosis as Hasan. After 6 years of war and many deaths in the ME he needs justification for what he is seeing. Whether it be nationalist or religious, which really are two sides of the same tribal coin, he needs muslim “terrorism” to feel justified. He needs every muslim to be a terrorist because he is human just like everybody else and hundreds of thousand deaths with the toll still rising, you need the enemy to be as vile and inhuman as possible to justify our collective acceptance of our military’s actions. Just as Hasan transferred his mental anguish to making the US military evil, Surveyor transfers his feelings to making all muslims evil.
[/quote]

Oh, so Hasan does the following things:

a) Validates the value of suicide bombing and discusses its approval under Islam
b) Teaches at a medical lecture that jews and infidels must be killed as per Koranic law
c) Makes statements that he is a muslim first and american second
d) Emails an imam who teaches him, under proper koranic principles as regularly taught by the Koran, that jihad is the duty of every muslim
e) Dresses up in white, gives away his belongings, and proceeds to yell Allah Akbar before killing people (the modus operandi of a terrorist suicide bomber)

I am the one who points out that Hasan believes he is acting according to the principles of islamic law and I show where he got the basis for this belief. Hasan’s modus operandi is that of a suicide bomber and those attacks are regarded as terroristic.

Ergo, I’m the one under a psychosis?

Sorry, Arraya. I didn’t realize that I should be mailing you tin foil hats from now on.

As I have pointed out ad nauseum, most muslims do not know and many of them do not care for the violent verses in the koran. It’s like Catholics who practice birth control. It’s not recommended by the church but they still do it.

There is an established pattern that emerges when a muslim becomes more religious, when he starts really delving into the koran and finding out exactly what it means. Some muslims have become alarmed and don’t do anything. Others start believing intensely the words in the koran and that is when they start becoming jihadists.

The thing is, jihadists tell you why they are killing jews and infidels. They say we are killing jews and infidels because the koran has commanded them to do so. Many of them have said that the existence of Israel has nothing to do with it. Many of them were saying these things before 9/11. Before Israel existed. Before the United States existed. So it does not matter if there is a war in the middle east and if our troops are commiting atrocities (big if). They say they have been commanded by god to make war upon the world and they say this is why they are attacking us.

And when I tell you this, I am not telling you as a theory or as my personal belief system that islam is violent or not. I am making no such judgments. I am telling you this is what they believe because this is what they are saying. These are the statements of jihadists everywhere.

Your response to all this has been “well jews kill people too” or “israel is evil” or “jews have violent verses and they act upon them too”. And I have taken pains to show you how they are different and how these statements are being echoed from history to now. And your final response to all this is now to call me a whack job and dismiss my facts altogether.

For this I get called a whack job. For basically “reporting.” That’s certainly intellectual of you.

Occam’s razor: consider that maybe instead of making all sorts of assumptions about me, my personality, my thought processes, and of me being a whack job, consider that all I am doing is telling you what they are saying and how they are saying it, which are all facts that can be easily checked.

Which of us is the whack job now?

By the way, your whole statement above is nothing more than a straw man argument. Logical fallacy. Anyone can see you are failing to even make a coherent argument.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Was it a religion the drove him to do what he did or extreme psychological duress like John Russell a few months ago? This is the line the surveyor so wants everybody to understand. That it was his muslim-ness. And muslim-ness should be on trial. We start to go into orwellian thought control with this sort of BS, it’s just like mccarthyism, what was he thinking. When did he switch to the other side. Nonsense.
[/quote]

Once again, Arraya totally misrepresents my position. I am not saying to persecute muslims just because they are muslims. However, it is very clear that the actions Hasan commited showed his jihadist ideology, which come from his understanding of Islam. And Islam has a basis in violence and in the teaching of violence.

Once again Arraya displays a true lack of logical understanding of the issues through the use of the straw man argument, by accusing me of Orwellian and McCarthyism.

Arraya would like you to totally dismiss the fact that Hasan is a jihadist, instead offering the twisted logic shown above and just accept the idea of Hasan as a crazy person who just got set off. Unfortunately, the facts don’t add up to that conclusion. The facts more readily point to the idea that Hasan was a jihadist, that he based his belief on koranic law and principles. Unfortunately that is a hard idea to accept.

Because many people refuse to look into this issue, this idea is dismissed so casually, that was why Hasan was able to kill those people in the first place.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Was it a religion the drove him to do what he did or extreme psychological duress like John Russell a few months ago? This is the line the surveyor so wants everybody to understand. That it was his muslim-ness. And muslim-ness should be on trial. We start to go into orwellian thought control with this sort of BS, it’s just like mccarthyism, what was he thinking. When did he switch to the other side. Nonsense.
[/quote]

Once again, Arraya totally misrepresents my position. I am not saying to persecute muslims just because they are muslims. However, it is very clear that the actions Hasan commited showed his jihadist ideology, which come from his understanding of Islam. And Islam has a basis in violence and in the teaching of violence.

Once again Arraya displays a true lack of logical understanding of the issues through the use of the straw man argument, by accusing me of Orwellian and McCarthyism.

Arraya would like you to totally dismiss the fact that Hasan is a jihadist, instead offering the twisted logic shown above and just accept the idea of Hasan as a crazy person who just got set off. Unfortunately, the facts don’t add up to that conclusion. The facts more readily point to the idea that Hasan was a jihadist, that he based his belief on koranic law and principles. Unfortunately that is a hard idea to accept.

Because many people refuse to look into this issue, this idea is dismissed so casually, that was why Hasan was able to kill those people in the first place.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Was it a religion the drove him to do what he did or extreme psychological duress like John Russell a few months ago? This is the line the surveyor so wants everybody to understand. That it was his muslim-ness. And muslim-ness should be on trial. We start to go into orwellian thought control with this sort of BS, it’s just like mccarthyism, what was he thinking. When did he switch to the other side. Nonsense.
[/quote]

Once again, Arraya totally misrepresents my position. I am not saying to persecute muslims just because they are muslims. However, it is very clear that the actions Hasan commited showed his jihadist ideology, which come from his understanding of Islam. And Islam has a basis in violence and in the teaching of violence.

Once again Arraya displays a true lack of logical understanding of the issues through the use of the straw man argument, by accusing me of Orwellian and McCarthyism.

Arraya would like you to totally dismiss the fact that Hasan is a jihadist, instead offering the twisted logic shown above and just accept the idea of Hasan as a crazy person who just got set off. Unfortunately, the facts don’t add up to that conclusion. The facts more readily point to the idea that Hasan was a jihadist, that he based his belief on koranic law and principles. Unfortunately that is a hard idea to accept.

Because many people refuse to look into this issue, this idea is dismissed so casually, that was why Hasan was able to kill those people in the first place.

[surveyor]

[quote=Arraya]
Was it a religion the drove him to do what he did or extreme psychological duress like John Russell a few months ago? This is the line the surveyor so wants everybody to understand. That it was his muslim-ness. And muslim-ness should be on trial. We start to go into orwellian thought control with this sort of BS, it’s just like mccarthyism, what was he thinking. When did he switch to the other side. Nonsense.
[/quote]

Once again, Arraya totally misrepresents my position. I am not saying to persecute muslims just because they are muslims. However, it is very clear that the actions Hasan commited showed his jihadist ideology, which come from his understanding of Islam. And Islam has a basis in violence and in the teaching of violence.

Once again Arraya displays a true lack of logical understanding of the issues through the use of the straw man argument, by accusing me of Orwellian and McCarthyism.

Arraya would like you to totally dismiss the fact that Hasan is a jihadist, instead offering the twisted logic shown above and just accept the idea of Hasan as a crazy person who just got set off. Unfortunately, the facts don’t add up to that conclusion. The facts more readily point to the idea that Hasan was a jihadist, that he based his belief on koranic law and principles. Unfortunately that is a hard idea to accept.

Because many people refuse to look into this issue, this idea is dismissed so casually, that was why Hasan was able to kill those people in the first place.

[Author]

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