Taxes!

[Anonymous]

[quote]Right, I don’t understand it. Isn’t that what all the “experts” said about those of us who were trying to warn about the credit/housing bubble […][/quote]

Because some things you don’t understand are bad, then all things you don’t understand are bad.

Textbook logic fail.

But whatever, let’s summarize:

Anybody who does something you don’t understand or like does not truly “earn” their money.

Question: Exactly what qualifies you to decide how much people should be compensated for their efforts?

You are an expert on all aspects of financial markets because you called the internet and housing bubbles? Guess what, lots of people knew they were bubbles…that’s why they popped!

If the only qualification for “know it all” status is realizing, at some point, that internet stocks were in bubble, then there are millions of brilliant financial experts out there.

“Organic market?” Which one, Whole Foods or Jimbos?

You just keep making shit up as you go! Perhaps if you invent enough terms you will eventually be right!

I did HF trading for a living for many years.

But you have read a few things about it on the internet, so you clearly know more about how it works it than me. Thanks for explaining.

Ignorance and arrogance, a beautiful combination.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Right, I don’t understand it. Isn’t that what all the “experts” said about those of us who were trying to warn about the credit/housing bubble […][/quote]

Because some things you don’t understand are bad, then all things you don’t understand are bad.

Textbook logic fail.

But whatever, let’s summarize:

Anybody who does something you don’t understand or like does not truly “earn” their money.

Question: Exactly what qualifies you to decide how much people should be compensated for their efforts?

You are an expert on all aspects of financial markets because you called the internet and housing bubbles? Guess what, lots of people knew they were bubbles…that’s why they popped!

If the only qualification for “know it all” status is realizing, at some point, that internet stocks were in bubble, then there are millions of brilliant financial experts out there.

“Organic market?” Which one, Whole Foods or Jimbos?

You just keep making shit up as you go! Perhaps if you invent enough terms you will eventually be right!

I did HF trading for a living for many years.

But you have read a few things about it on the internet, so you clearly know more about how it works it than me. Thanks for explaining.

Ignorance and arrogance, a beautiful combination.[/quote]

You seem to be pretty keen on determining what government workers “deserve” to make. What makes you the expert there?

You like to make claims about my knowledge, but have failed to prove me wrong. I cite articles and facts, and you return with more personal attacks. FAIL!

There are plenty of areas where I totally lack knowledge: sports, technology, fashion, advanced sciences, etc. You’ll not see me debating people regarding these topics, especially if their knowledge is far more advanced than mine (not difficult to do).

That being said, I have an above-average understanding of economics, especially social economics. I have an above-average understanding of the housing market. I have an above-average understanding of how the public sector works. I’m not a “know it all,” but what I do know, I tend to know fairly well.

You don’t like the fact that I challenge the myths of capitalism. The fact that you’ve worked in the field does not mean that it’s benevolent, nor does it mean that you know what’s better for us than anyone who challenges you and your sacred form of capitalism.

If you want to see ignorance and arrogance, look in the mirror.

BTW, the housing bubble did not pop because everyone knew it was a bubble. It popped because they ran out of buyers who could pay more than the previous buyers did. They had scraped the very last few idiots out of the bottom of the barrel with the NINJA loans, and there were no buyers left to keep prices propped up. Since everyone was “living off their equity” (literally paying their mortgages with new mortgages), when prices stopped rising, they were no longer able to “tap their equity” to pay their mortgages. This was the first line of defaults.

But I guess you’re the expert, and you clearly understand what I do not…

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Right, I don’t understand it. Isn’t that what all the “experts” said about those of us who were trying to warn about the credit/housing bubble […][/quote]

Because some things you don’t understand are bad, then all things you don’t understand are bad.

Textbook logic fail.

But whatever, let’s summarize:

Anybody who does something you don’t understand or like does not truly “earn” their money.

Question: Exactly what qualifies you to decide how much people should be compensated for their efforts?

You are an expert on all aspects of financial markets because you called the internet and housing bubbles? Guess what, lots of people knew they were bubbles…that’s why they popped!

If the only qualification for “know it all” status is realizing, at some point, that internet stocks were in bubble, then there are millions of brilliant financial experts out there.

“Organic market?” Which one, Whole Foods or Jimbos?

You just keep making shit up as you go! Perhaps if you invent enough terms you will eventually be right!

I did HF trading for a living for many years.

But you have read a few things about it on the internet, so you clearly know more about how it works it than me. Thanks for explaining.

Ignorance and arrogance, a beautiful combination.[/quote]

You seem to be pretty keen on determining what government workers “deserve” to make. What makes you the expert there?

You like to make claims about my knowledge, but have failed to prove me wrong. I cite articles and facts, and you return with more personal attacks. FAIL!

There are plenty of areas where I totally lack knowledge: sports, technology, fashion, advanced sciences, etc. You’ll not see me debating people regarding these topics, especially if their knowledge is far more advanced than mine (not difficult to do).

That being said, I have an above-average understanding of economics, especially social economics. I have an above-average understanding of the housing market. I have an above-average understanding of how the public sector works. I’m not a “know it all,” but what I do know, I tend to know fairly well.

You don’t like the fact that I challenge the myths of capitalism. The fact that you’ve worked in the field does not mean that it’s benevolent, nor does it mean that you know what’s better for us than anyone who challenges you and your sacred form of capitalism.

If you want to see ignorance and arrogance, look in the mirror.

BTW, the housing bubble did not pop because everyone knew it was a bubble. It popped because they ran out of buyers who could pay more than the previous buyers did. They had scraped the very last few idiots out of the bottom of the barrel with the NINJA loans, and there were no buyers left to keep prices propped up. Since everyone was “living off their equity” (literally paying their mortgages with new mortgages), when prices stopped rising, they were no longer able to “tap their equity” to pay their mortgages. This was the first line of defaults.

But I guess you’re the expert, and you clearly understand what I do not…

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Right, I don’t understand it. Isn’t that what all the “experts” said about those of us who were trying to warn about the credit/housing bubble […][/quote]

Because some things you don’t understand are bad, then all things you don’t understand are bad.

Textbook logic fail.

But whatever, let’s summarize:

Anybody who does something you don’t understand or like does not truly “earn” their money.

Question: Exactly what qualifies you to decide how much people should be compensated for their efforts?

You are an expert on all aspects of financial markets because you called the internet and housing bubbles? Guess what, lots of people knew they were bubbles…that’s why they popped!

If the only qualification for “know it all” status is realizing, at some point, that internet stocks were in bubble, then there are millions of brilliant financial experts out there.

“Organic market?” Which one, Whole Foods or Jimbos?

You just keep making shit up as you go! Perhaps if you invent enough terms you will eventually be right!

I did HF trading for a living for many years.

But you have read a few things about it on the internet, so you clearly know more about how it works it than me. Thanks for explaining.

Ignorance and arrogance, a beautiful combination.[/quote]

You seem to be pretty keen on determining what government workers “deserve” to make. What makes you the expert there?

You like to make claims about my knowledge, but have failed to prove me wrong. I cite articles and facts, and you return with more personal attacks. FAIL!

There are plenty of areas where I totally lack knowledge: sports, technology, fashion, advanced sciences, etc. You’ll not see me debating people regarding these topics, especially if their knowledge is far more advanced than mine (not difficult to do).

That being said, I have an above-average understanding of economics, especially social economics. I have an above-average understanding of the housing market. I have an above-average understanding of how the public sector works. I’m not a “know it all,” but what I do know, I tend to know fairly well.

You don’t like the fact that I challenge the myths of capitalism. The fact that you’ve worked in the field does not mean that it’s benevolent, nor does it mean that you know what’s better for us than anyone who challenges you and your sacred form of capitalism.

If you want to see ignorance and arrogance, look in the mirror.

BTW, the housing bubble did not pop because everyone knew it was a bubble. It popped because they ran out of buyers who could pay more than the previous buyers did. They had scraped the very last few idiots out of the bottom of the barrel with the NINJA loans, and there were no buyers left to keep prices propped up. Since everyone was “living off their equity” (literally paying their mortgages with new mortgages), when prices stopped rising, they were no longer able to “tap their equity” to pay their mortgages. This was the first line of defaults.

But I guess you’re the expert, and you clearly understand what I do not…

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Right, I don’t understand it. Isn’t that what all the “experts” said about those of us who were trying to warn about the credit/housing bubble […][/quote]

Because some things you don’t understand are bad, then all things you don’t understand are bad.

Textbook logic fail.

But whatever, let’s summarize:

Anybody who does something you don’t understand or like does not truly “earn” their money.

Question: Exactly what qualifies you to decide how much people should be compensated for their efforts?

You are an expert on all aspects of financial markets because you called the internet and housing bubbles? Guess what, lots of people knew they were bubbles…that’s why they popped!

If the only qualification for “know it all” status is realizing, at some point, that internet stocks were in bubble, then there are millions of brilliant financial experts out there.

“Organic market?” Which one, Whole Foods or Jimbos?

You just keep making shit up as you go! Perhaps if you invent enough terms you will eventually be right!

I did HF trading for a living for many years.

But you have read a few things about it on the internet, so you clearly know more about how it works it than me. Thanks for explaining.

Ignorance and arrogance, a beautiful combination.[/quote]

You seem to be pretty keen on determining what government workers “deserve” to make. What makes you the expert there?

You like to make claims about my knowledge, but have failed to prove me wrong. I cite articles and facts, and you return with more personal attacks. FAIL!

There are plenty of areas where I totally lack knowledge: sports, technology, fashion, advanced sciences, etc. You’ll not see me debating people regarding these topics, especially if their knowledge is far more advanced than mine (not difficult to do).

That being said, I have an above-average understanding of economics, especially social economics. I have an above-average understanding of the housing market. I have an above-average understanding of how the public sector works. I’m not a “know it all,” but what I do know, I tend to know fairly well.

You don’t like the fact that I challenge the myths of capitalism. The fact that you’ve worked in the field does not mean that it’s benevolent, nor does it mean that you know what’s better for us than anyone who challenges you and your sacred form of capitalism.

If you want to see ignorance and arrogance, look in the mirror.

BTW, the housing bubble did not pop because everyone knew it was a bubble. It popped because they ran out of buyers who could pay more than the previous buyers did. They had scraped the very last few idiots out of the bottom of the barrel with the NINJA loans, and there were no buyers left to keep prices propped up. Since everyone was “living off their equity” (literally paying their mortgages with new mortgages), when prices stopped rising, they were no longer able to “tap their equity” to pay their mortgages. This was the first line of defaults.

But I guess you’re the expert, and you clearly understand what I do not…

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote]Right, I don’t understand it. Isn’t that what all the “experts” said about those of us who were trying to warn about the credit/housing bubble […][/quote]

Because some things you don’t understand are bad, then all things you don’t understand are bad.

Textbook logic fail.

But whatever, let’s summarize:

Anybody who does something you don’t understand or like does not truly “earn” their money.

Question: Exactly what qualifies you to decide how much people should be compensated for their efforts?

You are an expert on all aspects of financial markets because you called the internet and housing bubbles? Guess what, lots of people knew they were bubbles…that’s why they popped!

If the only qualification for “know it all” status is realizing, at some point, that internet stocks were in bubble, then there are millions of brilliant financial experts out there.

“Organic market?” Which one, Whole Foods or Jimbos?

You just keep making shit up as you go! Perhaps if you invent enough terms you will eventually be right!

I did HF trading for a living for many years.

But you have read a few things about it on the internet, so you clearly know more about how it works it than me. Thanks for explaining.

Ignorance and arrogance, a beautiful combination.[/quote]

You seem to be pretty keen on determining what government workers “deserve” to make. What makes you the expert there?

You like to make claims about my knowledge, but have failed to prove me wrong. I cite articles and facts, and you return with more personal attacks. FAIL!

There are plenty of areas where I totally lack knowledge: sports, technology, fashion, advanced sciences, etc. You’ll not see me debating people regarding these topics, especially if their knowledge is far more advanced than mine (not difficult to do).

That being said, I have an above-average understanding of economics, especially social economics. I have an above-average understanding of the housing market. I have an above-average understanding of how the public sector works. I’m not a “know it all,” but what I do know, I tend to know fairly well.

You don’t like the fact that I challenge the myths of capitalism. The fact that you’ve worked in the field does not mean that it’s benevolent, nor does it mean that you know what’s better for us than anyone who challenges you and your sacred form of capitalism.

If you want to see ignorance and arrogance, look in the mirror.

BTW, the housing bubble did not pop because everyone knew it was a bubble. It popped because they ran out of buyers who could pay more than the previous buyers did. They had scraped the very last few idiots out of the bottom of the barrel with the NINJA loans, and there were no buyers left to keep prices propped up. Since everyone was “living off their equity” (literally paying their mortgages with new mortgages), when prices stopped rising, they were no longer able to “tap their equity” to pay their mortgages. This was the first line of defaults.

But I guess you’re the expert, and you clearly understand what I do not…

[Huckleberry]

The flat tax debate has been center stage debate for all the presidential candidates this last week.

It looks like it’s going to dominate the 2012 elections and be a primary deciding factor.

I have read many analysis that a flat tax system will immediately erase 10-15% of housing valuation in the first year based on the elimination of the mortgage interest deduction.

I ask Piggs, what are you conjectures about the affects a flat tax will have on the mortgage interest deduction and ultimately on housing prices in high valuation areas such as coastal SD?

[70Degrees]

[quote=SK in CV]
To a great extent, that is hogwash. If you log into your etrade account, and purchase 100 shares of Ford, it does nothing to further economic development. It has no effect on whether Ford expands their workforce or opens a new plant. It provides no new capital. Same logic applies to the billions of dollars that are traded daily on the world’s exchanges for common stocks, mutual funds, ETF’s or the secondary markets for fixed income securities. IPO’s, initial direct investments in new companies provides that capital. A tiny fraction of the total invested capital.[/quote]

What this provides is liquidity. Without liquidity the market would not exist – at least not at anything resembling the scale it does now. As someone else said, the ford family was able to sell in the first place because the new buyer knew they had some liquidity. As a result, that initial sale got a higher price than it otherwise would have.

Likewise, when the company subsequently made offers of new stock, the same apllied. Those new offers provided capital to the company that it uses to expand and create jobs. In the absence of the ability to sell shares, those investments in ford people made would have looked more like donations to ford. And i think thats how it would be treated if massive changes to the treatment of invested income were introduced – prices would tank to compensate for the increased tax.

None of those ipo’s would exist if the new buyers didnt think they could sell their stock.

Although a fun armchair exercise there are so many trickle down effects of any taxation change that i dont think we’ll realy see anything major anytime soon.

[CA renter]

[quote=70Degrees][quote=SK in CV]
To a great extent, that is hogwash. If you log into your etrade account, and purchase 100 shares of Ford, it does nothing to further economic development. It has no effect on whether Ford expands their workforce or opens a new plant. It provides no new capital. Same logic applies to the billions of dollars that are traded daily on the world’s exchanges for common stocks, mutual funds, ETF’s or the secondary markets for fixed income securities. IPO’s, initial direct investments in new companies provides that capital. A tiny fraction of the total invested capital.[/quote]

What this provides is liquidity. Without liquidity the market would not exist – at least not at anything resembling the scale it does now. As someone else said, the ford family was able to sell in the first place because the new buyer knew they had some liquidity. As a result, that initial sale got a higher price than it otherwise would have.

Likewise, when the company subsequently made offers of new stock, the same apllied. Those new offers provided capital to the company that it uses to expand and create jobs. In the absence of the ability to sell shares, those investments in ford people made would have looked more like donations to ford. And i think thats how it would be treated if massive changes to the treatment of invested income were introduced – prices would tank to compensate for the increased tax.

None of those ipo’s would exist if the new buyers didnt think they could sell their stock.

Although a fun armchair exercise there are so many trickle down effects of any taxation change that i dont think we’ll realy see anything major anytime soon.[/quote]

Ultimately, a stock’s value should be based on profit and dividends. You can always sell an income stream. IMHO, the damage isn’t really done by J6 buying 100 shares of Ford, but by the high-frequency traders and large arbitrage trades made by those who have no personal use for the stock/income stream.

[Author]

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