TAX TAX TAX and more TAX

[gandalf]

– Progressive = redistribute money from rich to poor
– Neutral = taxing each according to their means
– Regressive = redistribute money from poor to rich

Regressive is what we have now, in large part because of all of the loopholes and avoidance. Tax policy is one of the reasons for the astronomical changes in wealth and income distribution in the past 30 years. The current regressive policy is not fair.

It is NOT FAIR to take money from middle class households (the poor relatively no taxes) and give to wealthy and corporate classes. That is redistribution out of the pockets of the middle class to people and companies — WHO DON’T NEED IT. If you support the current tax code, you’re either a SHIRKER, or you’re among the deceived.

SDR, for the record, I don’t think you’re either a tax cheat or a right-wing idiot. I think you’re a moderately conservative but totally balanced and completely reasonable guy.

I suspect what you intended to say is that you support a ‘neutral’ tax policy — to each according to their means. That’s what I support too. So I think we’re probably in complete agreement here on the substance.

I have no idea how it gets implemented though. It’s tricky, and details matter. I think both wage income and gains from wealth should be treated as ‘Income’. That would be a good place to start. The VAT approach works around income tricks by taxing production.

Whatever the approach, the current regressive tax code is unfair and needs to be reformed. So I’m pleased the Obama administration is looking into this. Tax outlays as a percentage of GDP are too high on the middle class and too low for the wealthy and corporate classes.

I fully expect an ignorant and disingenuous outcry from anti-tax TEA-party idiots on the right (which includes lots of average means white people who mainly can’t get over the fact the President of the U.S. is a black dude).

[gandalf]

Ditto. Complete agreement from here.

A flat tax with NO loopholes makes a heck of alot of sense.

Not sure if VAT will replace or add to tax code. I suspect the Obama people are looking at the bigger picture.

Also, Congress has a big role here. I would like to see more negotiation and cooperation between Republicans and Democrats, instead of the scorched earth take-no-prisoners approach we have now. GOP propoganda, right wing talkers and Fox (GFY) News are largely to blame.

[gandalf]

Ditto. Complete agreement from here.

A flat tax with NO loopholes makes a heck of alot of sense.

Not sure if VAT will replace or add to tax code. I suspect the Obama people are looking at the bigger picture.

Also, Congress has a big role here. I would like to see more negotiation and cooperation between Republicans and Democrats, instead of the scorched earth take-no-prisoners approach we have now. GOP propoganda, right wing talkers and Fox (GFY) News are largely to blame.

[gandalf]

Ditto. Complete agreement from here.

A flat tax with NO loopholes makes a heck of alot of sense.

Not sure if VAT will replace or add to tax code. I suspect the Obama people are looking at the bigger picture.

Also, Congress has a big role here. I would like to see more negotiation and cooperation between Republicans and Democrats, instead of the scorched earth take-no-prisoners approach we have now. GOP propoganda, right wing talkers and Fox (GFY) News are largely to blame.

[gandalf]

Ditto. Complete agreement from here.

A flat tax with NO loopholes makes a heck of alot of sense.

Not sure if VAT will replace or add to tax code. I suspect the Obama people are looking at the bigger picture.

Also, Congress has a big role here. I would like to see more negotiation and cooperation between Republicans and Democrats, instead of the scorched earth take-no-prisoners approach we have now. GOP propoganda, right wing talkers and Fox (GFY) News are largely to blame.

[gandalf]

Ditto. Complete agreement from here.

A flat tax with NO loopholes makes a heck of alot of sense.

Not sure if VAT will replace or add to tax code. I suspect the Obama people are looking at the bigger picture.

Also, Congress has a big role here. I would like to see more negotiation and cooperation between Republicans and Democrats, instead of the scorched earth take-no-prisoners approach we have now. GOP propoganda, right wing talkers and Fox (GFY) News are largely to blame.

[meadandale]

[quote=gandalf]
I fully expect an ignorant and disingenuous outcry from anti-tax TEA-party idiots on the right (which includes lots of average means white people who mainly can’t get over the fact the President of the U.S. is a black dude).[/quote]

Dropping the race card just erased any credibility that you might have had. I’m getting awfully freaking tired of people calling anyone who disagrees with Obama’s POLICIES a racist.

[meadandale]

[quote=gandalf]
I fully expect an ignorant and disingenuous outcry from anti-tax TEA-party idiots on the right (which includes lots of average means white people who mainly can’t get over the fact the President of the U.S. is a black dude).[/quote]

Dropping the race card just erased any credibility that you might have had. I’m getting awfully freaking tired of people calling anyone who disagrees with Obama’s POLICIES a racist.

[meadandale]

[quote=gandalf]
I fully expect an ignorant and disingenuous outcry from anti-tax TEA-party idiots on the right (which includes lots of average means white people who mainly can’t get over the fact the President of the U.S. is a black dude).[/quote]

Dropping the race card just erased any credibility that you might have had. I’m getting awfully freaking tired of people calling anyone who disagrees with Obama’s POLICIES a racist.

[meadandale]

[quote=gandalf]
I fully expect an ignorant and disingenuous outcry from anti-tax TEA-party idiots on the right (which includes lots of average means white people who mainly can’t get over the fact the President of the U.S. is a black dude).[/quote]

Dropping the race card just erased any credibility that you might have had. I’m getting awfully freaking tired of people calling anyone who disagrees with Obama’s POLICIES a racist.

[meadandale]

[quote=gandalf]
I fully expect an ignorant and disingenuous outcry from anti-tax TEA-party idiots on the right (which includes lots of average means white people who mainly can’t get over the fact the President of the U.S. is a black dude).[/quote]

Dropping the race card just erased any credibility that you might have had. I’m getting awfully freaking tired of people calling anyone who disagrees with Obama’s POLICIES a racist.

[UCGal]

We all get our talking points somewhere…
I choose to get them from the “fake news” of the Daily Show… at least it makes me laugh.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-13-2010/that-s-tariffic

If we address the tax code – we need to look at how deductions are used. It’s kind of like tea-partiers wanting government to keep their hands off their SS and Medicare. If you want a flat tax – there goes your home interest deduction, there goes your child as a deduction, there goes your 15% rate on long term cap gains, there goes your cap gain exclusion when you sell your house.

I’m not saying the current system is good – it’s not – it’s seriously eff’d up. But a lot of people don’t realize they could be a worse off with a flat tax. I know I personally benefit from the home interest rate deduction, the children deductions, the long term cap gains, tax deferal through 401ks, etc. All that goes away with a flat tax.

The good side of the flat tax – corporations, presumably, would also have to pay a flat tax – so no more creative book keeping, writing off inventory, moving assets around to hide profits offshore.

[UCGal]

We all get our talking points somewhere…
I choose to get them from the “fake news” of the Daily Show… at least it makes me laugh.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-13-2010/that-s-tariffic

If we address the tax code – we need to look at how deductions are used. It’s kind of like tea-partiers wanting government to keep their hands off their SS and Medicare. If you want a flat tax – there goes your home interest deduction, there goes your child as a deduction, there goes your 15% rate on long term cap gains, there goes your cap gain exclusion when you sell your house.

I’m not saying the current system is good – it’s not – it’s seriously eff’d up. But a lot of people don’t realize they could be a worse off with a flat tax. I know I personally benefit from the home interest rate deduction, the children deductions, the long term cap gains, tax deferal through 401ks, etc. All that goes away with a flat tax.

The good side of the flat tax – corporations, presumably, would also have to pay a flat tax – so no more creative book keeping, writing off inventory, moving assets around to hide profits offshore.

[UCGal]

We all get our talking points somewhere…
I choose to get them from the “fake news” of the Daily Show… at least it makes me laugh.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-13-2010/that-s-tariffic

If we address the tax code – we need to look at how deductions are used. It’s kind of like tea-partiers wanting government to keep their hands off their SS and Medicare. If you want a flat tax – there goes your home interest deduction, there goes your child as a deduction, there goes your 15% rate on long term cap gains, there goes your cap gain exclusion when you sell your house.

I’m not saying the current system is good – it’s not – it’s seriously eff’d up. But a lot of people don’t realize they could be a worse off with a flat tax. I know I personally benefit from the home interest rate deduction, the children deductions, the long term cap gains, tax deferal through 401ks, etc. All that goes away with a flat tax.

The good side of the flat tax – corporations, presumably, would also have to pay a flat tax – so no more creative book keeping, writing off inventory, moving assets around to hide profits offshore.

[UCGal]

We all get our talking points somewhere…
I choose to get them from the “fake news” of the Daily Show… at least it makes me laugh.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-13-2010/that-s-tariffic

If we address the tax code – we need to look at how deductions are used. It’s kind of like tea-partiers wanting government to keep their hands off their SS and Medicare. If you want a flat tax – there goes your home interest deduction, there goes your child as a deduction, there goes your 15% rate on long term cap gains, there goes your cap gain exclusion when you sell your house.

I’m not saying the current system is good – it’s not – it’s seriously eff’d up. But a lot of people don’t realize they could be a worse off with a flat tax. I know I personally benefit from the home interest rate deduction, the children deductions, the long term cap gains, tax deferal through 401ks, etc. All that goes away with a flat tax.

The good side of the flat tax – corporations, presumably, would also have to pay a flat tax – so no more creative book keeping, writing off inventory, moving assets around to hide profits offshore.

[Author]

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