Tax cuts and the national debt

[Anonymous]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I’m waiting with bated breadth to see what Trump will do with regard to healthcare.[/quote]

A preview:

http://tomprice.house.gov/sites/tomprice.house.gov/files/Section%20by%20Section%20of%20HR%202300%20Empowering%20Patients%20First%20Act%202015.pdf

Looks like basically a tax credit that can be applied to insurance premiums, along with HSAs. The self-employed get to self-insure and hope they don’t get sick until their HSA balance is ready. Because we all know that Americans like to save, they will certainly set money aside for the cancer that they might get. The unemployed are SOL and there’s a ding to employers who cover their employees.

I don’t see any provision requiring insurance – what happens when the uninsured show up at the emergency room?

Ironically it will likely increase the number of people who pay zero income tax. Now it will be even bigger than 47%. And no abortion coverage. “Fiscal conservatives” want to give more tax breaks for the children born to parents who don’t want a child.

It’s just moving the problem around. Sure as hell not a “fix” for healthcare.

[quote]I think deep down they know know we need government run basic healthcare and rationing in order to contain costs.[/quote]

Everybody knows this. The issue of “politically correct” speech that actually has substance is that nobody can say it.

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]I don’t get the opposition to taxes. I’d be glad to pay a sizable chunk of my income in tax if I had a family, in exchange for certain guarantees.
(1) My kids get a decent public education no matter what happens to me
(2) My kids have access to secondary education at low cost
(3) My family has access to healthcare at low cost with minimal risk of medical bankruptcy
(4) Government retirement system (read: Social Security) remains well-funded
(5) Infrastructure and public transport systems are well maintained
(6) Things like the environment, food quality, and drug efficacy are well-regulated to prevent corporations harming the public. Also, working hours are regulated and vacation time is guaranteed as a matter of health and safety.

Problem with the US isn’t our taxes are terribly high — it’s that we don’t get much back for the tax money spent. We waste it on homicide sprees abroad (aka, power projection) and abuse of our own citizenry (overpolicing, mass incarceration, war on the bugaboo of the week).[/quote]

Bingo. We could cut our military spending in half and still out-spend every other country on the planet. The Military Industrial Complex has been running the show for far too long. Think of where we would be WRT healthcare, education, infrastructure, etc. if we hadn’t spent all this money on wars that most of us (those of us who pay attention to what’s going on in the world) never wanted.

And the notion that cutting taxes while increasing military spending will magically make deficits disappear is pure idiocy.

Trickle-down economics has NEVER worked. Why do so many people still believe in it?

[FlyerInHi]

Talking about the military, now that Trump killed TPP, China has been strengthened and emboldened as the countries in the Asia Pacific region have to acquiesce to China’s demands for trade reasons. TPP was the Asia pivot to shift trade to our side.

Trump will have to increase our military presence in Asia or let China become more dominant. As of right now, Vietnam, the Philippines, Japan, Korea are all falling into the China line.

Islamic extremism has kept us distracted since 2001 and that has been wonderful for China. We will be busy with the Middle East for another couple decades unless Trump’s secret plan works. Can’t wait to find out what that is.

[meadandale]

[quote=spdrun]
Problem with the US isn’t our taxes are terribly high [/quote]

Our cumulative taxes are at least as high as many of the socialist countries folks like you see to be fanbois of. My effective federal tax rate is 22%, my effective state tax rate is 7.5%. As a self employed business owner, I’m also paying the whole 15% of payroll. That’s 45% before I buy anything. Sales tax is almost 10% these days and then add in all the other taxes we pay (including property tax). I’m paying a pretty substantial chunk of my income to the government. I don’t want to pay anymore TYVM.

[meadandale]

[quote=poorgradstudent][quote=spdrun]
Problem with the US isn’t our taxes are terribly high — it’s that we don’t get much back for the tax money spent. We waste it on homicide sprees abroad (aka, power projection) and abuse of our own citizenry (overpolicing, mass incarceration, war on the bugaboo of the week).[/quote]

I think this is the main catch. Aside from a support network for old people, which most people with any sense of history and plans to be old one day themselves are ok with, we don’t get a lot of visible stuff for our low taxes.

A huge chunk of our taxes go to national defense, and there’s the biggest irony; a lot of people who want lower taxes want higher defense spending. The sequester actually was helpful in temporarily stemming ballooning defense spending, but unfortunately most of that eventually got exceptioned out.[/quote]

Defense is one of the few things that our FEDERAL government should actually be involved with. Almost everything else they do they should not be involved with and should be handled at the local/state level.

[Myriad]

What’s going to drive the system to the breaking point is in order:
1. Medicare/Medicaid
2. SS
3. Interest Costs
4. Defense.
But if you look at the projections, even if discretionary spending is stable, we have a huge problem. Defense is something like 50% of discretionary, but more than 50% of the defense spending is for manpower since US labor is expensive.

http://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0174_SS_major_health_climb-full.gif

It’s hard to imagine a scenario that will maintain the debt at relative GDP level (no increase in debt) without cuts and increased taxes.

[Anonymous]

[quote=meadandale]My effective federal tax rate is 22%, my effective state tax rate is 7.5%. As a self employed business owner, I’m also paying the whole 15% of payroll. That’s 45% before I buy anything. Sales tax is almost 10% these days and then add in all the other taxes we pay (including property tax). I’m paying a pretty substantial chunk of my income to the government. I don’t want to pay anymore TYVM.[/quote]

To have an effective federal rate of 22%, it means you are single and making about $200K/year, or married and making $300K/year. That’s with the standard deductions.

The 15% self-employment tax is capped at about $108K income so even in the worst-case scenario where your income comes equally from both you and your spouse’s salary, you wouldn’t be paying 15% of your entire income for payroll taxes.

As for “all the other taxes” property tax is the only one that would add up to anything substantial at your level of income, and that is deductible. And you’d have to be doing a helluva lot of shopping for sales taxes to be have a much impact on your balance sheet.

Are you paying too much? That’s a matter of opinion – obviously you think you are. But you are also exaggerating how much you actually pay.

[all]

[quote=Myriad]What’s going to drive the system to the breaking point is in order:
1. Medicare/Medicaid
2. SS
3. Interest Costs
4. Defense.
But if you look at the projections, even if discretionary spending is stable, we have a huge problem. Defense is something like 50% of discretionary, but more than 50% of the defense spending is for manpower since US labor is expensive.

http://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0174_SS_major_health_climb-full.gif

It’s hard to imagine a scenario that will maintain the debt at relative GDP level (no increase in debt) without cuts and increased taxes.[/quote]

Can’t we just conscript illegals at $5-6/hour instead of deporting them?

[Author]

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