TARP now estimated to cost $356 billion

[Arraya]

People have a hard time accepting that some people may not have allegiance to nation states when all evidence points to the contrary. They also have a massive aversion to questioning motives instead of competence. Combine that with absolutely no accountability for leaders and you have a recipe for allowing yourselves to get ripped off and abused. It’s baked in the mother fucking cake!

It’s like an abusive family where one child finally starts speaking truth and he gets attacked for being a troublemaker. People are exceedingly good at rationalizing actions in those situations, aren’t they? The mind is very clever.

Call it the culmination of decades of short-sighted self interested policies to benefit the few or outright conspiring to fuck over the many. But disaster is upon us nonetheless and we STUPIDLY give the abusers more power.

I’ve been abundantly clear on my short term predictions for over a year now on where this was going. Depression level unemployment and a crashed currency with no prospects of pulling out. Well, U-6 is 15.6% and the world is calling for the end of dollar hegemony. I don’t need to understand the complexities of the CDS market to call bullshit when I see it and it’s not hard to see where this is going.

Somehow I think in about a year or less we are going to feel like guy that took and option arm in early 2006. He does not have anybody to blame but himself, right? The loan documents were too confusing for him just like all the bailout measures are for us proletariat. Yet, I’d be willing to bet that a few people were pitched the option arm and they did not quite understand it but somehow they “felt” it was not a good idea.

But I’m sure when unemployment is at 20% + , they and their apologists will proclaim it would be worse if we hadn’t given in to their dictates. It always could have been worse, right?

Meanwhile, benighted leaders of our messy little civilization continue to weave together Golden Solutions made of straw.

The vital questions — those that must be asked and answered — are not even within the realm of thought for these who strive to find advantage among the the throngs of humans as our social structure crumbles away from us when it did not have to be this way.

This is more of a political crisis than economic one and Daddy hits us because he loves us.

A crucial point in that earlier history occurred when men and women of good will turned aside from the task of shoring up the Roman imperium and ceased to identify the continuation of civility and moral community with the maintenance of that imperium. What they set themselves to achieve instead was the construction of new forms of community within which the moral life could be sustained so that both morality and civility might survive the coming ages of barbarism and darkness. If my account of our moral condition is correct, we ought also to conclude that for some time now we have reached that turning-point. What matters at this stage is the construction of local forms of community within which civility and the intellectual moral life can be sustained through the new dark ages which are already upon us.
This time, however, the Barbarians are not waiting beyond the frontiers; they have already been governing us for quite some time. And it is our lack of consciousness of this that constitutes part of our predicament.”

~Alasdair MacIntyre, After Virtue : A Study in Moral Theory

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=TheBreeze]I voted for Bob Barr. McCain would have done the same crap because the government has been captured by a financial oligarchy. The two parties are essentially the same now.[/quote]

Breezhnev: Wait a minute! You voted for BOB BARR?!? WTF?!? You have been crowing about Obama with messianic virtue for months now and you didn’t EVEN VOTE FOR HIM?!?

How are you not a troll again? Seriously, you’re just here to agitate, right? Well, that explains some shit.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=TheBreeze]I voted for Bob Barr. McCain would have done the same crap because the government has been captured by a financial oligarchy. The two parties are essentially the same now.[/quote]

Breezhnev: Wait a minute! You voted for BOB BARR?!? WTF?!? You have been crowing about Obama with messianic virtue for months now and you didn’t EVEN VOTE FOR HIM?!?

How are you not a troll again? Seriously, you’re just here to agitate, right? Well, that explains some shit.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=TheBreeze]I voted for Bob Barr. McCain would have done the same crap because the government has been captured by a financial oligarchy. The two parties are essentially the same now.[/quote]

Breezhnev: Wait a minute! You voted for BOB BARR?!? WTF?!? You have been crowing about Obama with messianic virtue for months now and you didn’t EVEN VOTE FOR HIM?!?

How are you not a troll again? Seriously, you’re just here to agitate, right? Well, that explains some shit.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=TheBreeze]I voted for Bob Barr. McCain would have done the same crap because the government has been captured by a financial oligarchy. The two parties are essentially the same now.[/quote]

Breezhnev: Wait a minute! You voted for BOB BARR?!? WTF?!? You have been crowing about Obama with messianic virtue for months now and you didn’t EVEN VOTE FOR HIM?!?

How are you not a troll again? Seriously, you’re just here to agitate, right? Well, that explains some shit.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=TheBreeze]I voted for Bob Barr. McCain would have done the same crap because the government has been captured by a financial oligarchy. The two parties are essentially the same now.[/quote]

Breezhnev: Wait a minute! You voted for BOB BARR?!? WTF?!? You have been crowing about Obama with messianic virtue for months now and you didn’t EVEN VOTE FOR HIM?!?

How are you not a troll again? Seriously, you’re just here to agitate, right? Well, that explains some shit.

[DWCAP]

I dont wanna get into the tussel that has preceded this comment. It is rather obvious that there is some history playing out in this thread.

But to try to put it back on a course alittle more related to the true theme of the OP, the congressional budget office said that over HALF of the original TARP is gonan be lost? HALF! As in, we will get 50cents on the dollar in return for taxpayers money. And this wasnt in the Media anywhere? I mean, comone. CNN, get your head outa Obamas ass and atleast write something about this. Which is the bigger story?
A) Government projected to lose 356Billion on TARP
B) President Obama gives Queen an IPOD

Wasnt it like 5 months ago we were suppose to be making money overall? Wasnt that the kinda snide little remark the talking heads used to sell this? “taxpayers may even see a return from this investment”. I sure remember it.

Now, I fully realize that TARP money has been taking some funny twists as of late. It originally looked like what we are now calling PPIP, but has become this amophus blob of prefered stock, AIG bailout money, troubled loan refinancing, and more. It has become a catch-all for any and every program that may or maynot loosen credit and fix portions of this housing mess. The Bank money so far seems to be ahead of the game (I think) and returning its money and even some real return. Great, YAY! Still, HALF is projected to be lost, and narry a peep was heard about it. And this isnt some blogger projection, it is the CBO. Hopefully they know something about this.

It seems to me that even if certain portions of this bill do offer some return, I should be able to criticize the entire bill when it looses more than half of the entire amount. If nothing else, it was written extreamly poorly so as to allow Government ‘leaders’ to enact any and all pet projects without sufficient oversight or debate. Unfornatually, I see the same happening with PIPP in the future, and I doubt it will stop there.

And then we will have the defenders coming out with completly unprovable or unassiabale statements like “well it woulda been worse if we hadnt done this” and “It was a necessary evil that stopped Depression II”. I cant prove you were wrong, and you cant prove you were right, but it happened and eventually things will get better so it musta worked right?

Maybe Inflation wont be such a big deal with these kinda returns on our newly printed money.

[DWCAP]

I dont wanna get into the tussel that has preceded this comment. It is rather obvious that there is some history playing out in this thread.

But to try to put it back on a course alittle more related to the true theme of the OP, the congressional budget office said that over HALF of the original TARP is gonan be lost? HALF! As in, we will get 50cents on the dollar in return for taxpayers money. And this wasnt in the Media anywhere? I mean, comone. CNN, get your head outa Obamas ass and atleast write something about this. Which is the bigger story?
A) Government projected to lose 356Billion on TARP
B) President Obama gives Queen an IPOD

Wasnt it like 5 months ago we were suppose to be making money overall? Wasnt that the kinda snide little remark the talking heads used to sell this? “taxpayers may even see a return from this investment”. I sure remember it.

Now, I fully realize that TARP money has been taking some funny twists as of late. It originally looked like what we are now calling PPIP, but has become this amophus blob of prefered stock, AIG bailout money, troubled loan refinancing, and more. It has become a catch-all for any and every program that may or maynot loosen credit and fix portions of this housing mess. The Bank money so far seems to be ahead of the game (I think) and returning its money and even some real return. Great, YAY! Still, HALF is projected to be lost, and narry a peep was heard about it. And this isnt some blogger projection, it is the CBO. Hopefully they know something about this.

It seems to me that even if certain portions of this bill do offer some return, I should be able to criticize the entire bill when it looses more than half of the entire amount. If nothing else, it was written extreamly poorly so as to allow Government ‘leaders’ to enact any and all pet projects without sufficient oversight or debate. Unfornatually, I see the same happening with PIPP in the future, and I doubt it will stop there.

And then we will have the defenders coming out with completly unprovable or unassiabale statements like “well it woulda been worse if we hadnt done this” and “It was a necessary evil that stopped Depression II”. I cant prove you were wrong, and you cant prove you were right, but it happened and eventually things will get better so it musta worked right?

Maybe Inflation wont be such a big deal with these kinda returns on our newly printed money.

[DWCAP]

I dont wanna get into the tussel that has preceded this comment. It is rather obvious that there is some history playing out in this thread.

But to try to put it back on a course alittle more related to the true theme of the OP, the congressional budget office said that over HALF of the original TARP is gonan be lost? HALF! As in, we will get 50cents on the dollar in return for taxpayers money. And this wasnt in the Media anywhere? I mean, comone. CNN, get your head outa Obamas ass and atleast write something about this. Which is the bigger story?
A) Government projected to lose 356Billion on TARP
B) President Obama gives Queen an IPOD

Wasnt it like 5 months ago we were suppose to be making money overall? Wasnt that the kinda snide little remark the talking heads used to sell this? “taxpayers may even see a return from this investment”. I sure remember it.

Now, I fully realize that TARP money has been taking some funny twists as of late. It originally looked like what we are now calling PPIP, but has become this amophus blob of prefered stock, AIG bailout money, troubled loan refinancing, and more. It has become a catch-all for any and every program that may or maynot loosen credit and fix portions of this housing mess. The Bank money so far seems to be ahead of the game (I think) and returning its money and even some real return. Great, YAY! Still, HALF is projected to be lost, and narry a peep was heard about it. And this isnt some blogger projection, it is the CBO. Hopefully they know something about this.

It seems to me that even if certain portions of this bill do offer some return, I should be able to criticize the entire bill when it looses more than half of the entire amount. If nothing else, it was written extreamly poorly so as to allow Government ‘leaders’ to enact any and all pet projects without sufficient oversight or debate. Unfornatually, I see the same happening with PIPP in the future, and I doubt it will stop there.

And then we will have the defenders coming out with completly unprovable or unassiabale statements like “well it woulda been worse if we hadnt done this” and “It was a necessary evil that stopped Depression II”. I cant prove you were wrong, and you cant prove you were right, but it happened and eventually things will get better so it musta worked right?

Maybe Inflation wont be such a big deal with these kinda returns on our newly printed money.

[DWCAP]

I dont wanna get into the tussel that has preceded this comment. It is rather obvious that there is some history playing out in this thread.

But to try to put it back on a course alittle more related to the true theme of the OP, the congressional budget office said that over HALF of the original TARP is gonan be lost? HALF! As in, we will get 50cents on the dollar in return for taxpayers money. And this wasnt in the Media anywhere? I mean, comone. CNN, get your head outa Obamas ass and atleast write something about this. Which is the bigger story?
A) Government projected to lose 356Billion on TARP
B) President Obama gives Queen an IPOD

Wasnt it like 5 months ago we were suppose to be making money overall? Wasnt that the kinda snide little remark the talking heads used to sell this? “taxpayers may even see a return from this investment”. I sure remember it.

Now, I fully realize that TARP money has been taking some funny twists as of late. It originally looked like what we are now calling PPIP, but has become this amophus blob of prefered stock, AIG bailout money, troubled loan refinancing, and more. It has become a catch-all for any and every program that may or maynot loosen credit and fix portions of this housing mess. The Bank money so far seems to be ahead of the game (I think) and returning its money and even some real return. Great, YAY! Still, HALF is projected to be lost, and narry a peep was heard about it. And this isnt some blogger projection, it is the CBO. Hopefully they know something about this.

It seems to me that even if certain portions of this bill do offer some return, I should be able to criticize the entire bill when it looses more than half of the entire amount. If nothing else, it was written extreamly poorly so as to allow Government ‘leaders’ to enact any and all pet projects without sufficient oversight or debate. Unfornatually, I see the same happening with PIPP in the future, and I doubt it will stop there.

And then we will have the defenders coming out with completly unprovable or unassiabale statements like “well it woulda been worse if we hadnt done this” and “It was a necessary evil that stopped Depression II”. I cant prove you were wrong, and you cant prove you were right, but it happened and eventually things will get better so it musta worked right?

Maybe Inflation wont be such a big deal with these kinda returns on our newly printed money.

[DWCAP]

I dont wanna get into the tussel that has preceded this comment. It is rather obvious that there is some history playing out in this thread.

But to try to put it back on a course alittle more related to the true theme of the OP, the congressional budget office said that over HALF of the original TARP is gonan be lost? HALF! As in, we will get 50cents on the dollar in return for taxpayers money. And this wasnt in the Media anywhere? I mean, comone. CNN, get your head outa Obamas ass and atleast write something about this. Which is the bigger story?
A) Government projected to lose 356Billion on TARP
B) President Obama gives Queen an IPOD

Wasnt it like 5 months ago we were suppose to be making money overall? Wasnt that the kinda snide little remark the talking heads used to sell this? “taxpayers may even see a return from this investment”. I sure remember it.

Now, I fully realize that TARP money has been taking some funny twists as of late. It originally looked like what we are now calling PPIP, but has become this amophus blob of prefered stock, AIG bailout money, troubled loan refinancing, and more. It has become a catch-all for any and every program that may or maynot loosen credit and fix portions of this housing mess. The Bank money so far seems to be ahead of the game (I think) and returning its money and even some real return. Great, YAY! Still, HALF is projected to be lost, and narry a peep was heard about it. And this isnt some blogger projection, it is the CBO. Hopefully they know something about this.

It seems to me that even if certain portions of this bill do offer some return, I should be able to criticize the entire bill when it looses more than half of the entire amount. If nothing else, it was written extreamly poorly so as to allow Government ‘leaders’ to enact any and all pet projects without sufficient oversight or debate. Unfornatually, I see the same happening with PIPP in the future, and I doubt it will stop there.

And then we will have the defenders coming out with completly unprovable or unassiabale statements like “well it woulda been worse if we hadnt done this” and “It was a necessary evil that stopped Depression II”. I cant prove you were wrong, and you cant prove you were right, but it happened and eventually things will get better so it musta worked right?

Maybe Inflation wont be such a big deal with these kinda returns on our newly printed money.

[Coronita]

I responded earlier breezie…But…On second thought. I’ll take the higher road today and not dilute this thread.

As such… deleted…. Move along. DWCAP, thanks for keeping me in check with your thread below.

[Coronita]

I responded earlier breezie…But…On second thought. I’ll take the higher road today and not dilute this thread.

As such… deleted…. Move along. DWCAP, thanks for keeping me in check with your thread below.

[Coronita]

I responded earlier breezie…But…On second thought. I’ll take the higher road today and not dilute this thread.

As such… deleted…. Move along. DWCAP, thanks for keeping me in check with your thread below.

[Coronita]

I responded earlier breezie…But…On second thought. I’ll take the higher road today and not dilute this thread.

As such… deleted…. Move along. DWCAP, thanks for keeping me in check with your thread below.

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