South of the Border

[davelj]

There have been a handful of murders of Americans in Baja over the last several years (google “american murders baja”). Here’s a link that discusses three over the course of a few months in 2011.

http://tijuanapress.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4660:three-americans-murdered-in-mexico&catid=36:internacionales&Itemid=2

(You’ll notice, however, that one was likely a case of mistaken identity, another involved a fight, and the other outside the Caliente casino near the border – someone probably shot their mouth off to the wrong person.)

This is an example of a really bad situation:
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/24/two-in-custody-in-ensenada-slaying-of-us-citizen/
American retiree who put his trust in the wrong folks and they killed him.

All of these are anecdotal, however. The fact is that there are very few examples of Americans being targeted for kidnapping or death in Baja, particularly as a percentage of the Americans that either live or vacation there. Folks that don’t do stupid things very rarely end up with problems down there. There will always be examples of just plain bad luck or stupidity leading to problems – no matter where you live. 99.9% of the time if you mind your own business and use common sense your worst experience as an American is going to be getting a trumped up speeding ticket from the policia.

The good news is that we hear about these incidents in Mexico when they involve US citizens. If you’re Mexican… it often doesn’t even make the news because it’s so common (or involves bad elements).

An anecdote from a different angle. My insurance agent lives in TJ and is pretty well off – her three kids attend the parochial school on Coronado (I can’t recall the name) and she and her husband own a house on Coronado. I asked her why she lives in TJ instead of Coronado and she said, “San Diego’s boring. We come here on the weekends sometimes and the kids attend school here but we prefer Tijuana.” Different strokes for different folks.

[bearishgurl]

I agree with ER that the “system” is broken in MX and has been for a VERY long time.

However, I agree with davelj in that I know several Americans (NOT Mexican or of Mexican descent) that possess “Sentri Passes” who have been crossing the border 1-5 times per week with no incident for YEARS. They live on one side of the border … or both (they have a “vacation home” and/or “business” in Baja … no, folks, it’s NOT drug trafficking).

I agree that if you mind your own biz, speak Spanish passably and/or perhaps have a Mexican spouse, child, relative or friend with you who is FROM Baja, CA, then this category of Americans has less chance of being victimized.

In desmond’s video, the family was hauling a flashy fifth-wheel trailer. I only watched a few minutes of it but in the comments section, the first comment was that the family was driving a former Baja racecar trailer previously owned by the (very locally prominent) McMillin’s (of McMillin Development and Realty – HQ’d in Nat’l City, CA) with the name obliterated. I took a close look at it on the video, all the while knowing and remembering the particular nearby acreage where the family stores their racecar trailers. It is likely true that it was a former McMillin trailer which is a “red flag” to thugs “pretending” to be “law enforcement” who believe they will get to “steal” a racecar worth hundreds of thousand of dollars if they can frighten the driver and passengers enough to detain them and possibly “carjack” them. Ask yourselves where the scrapped law enforcement vehicles from CA agencies end up. You guessed it. Wrecking yards in Otay Mesa (SD), CA, where they are first stripped of their CA gov’t plate and then bought up at auction by the dozens by Mexicans who take them across the border. I know because I myself bought a Honda Prelude at one of said auctions back in the day for $700 – yes, running. Only a fraction of these partially-painted-over former US law-enforcement vehicles end up in the hands of legitimate law enforcement agencies down there. Hence, you have your “fake cops” pulling over “flashy” Americans down there.

I myself have not been to MX since before 9/11 (when border security was tightened up and an American needed documents to return to the US). In the eighties I went several times per month and have even traveled by car hundreds of miles beyond Ensenada. I let my passport expire and would have to renew it to obtain a Sentri Pass and/or travel abroad. I have no desire to do either at present.

My advice is to buy a Ford 150 pickup stateside, the older the better and if it doesn’t have any bondo on it, put some on it somewhere. Put a couple of Mexican blankets on the bench seat and a towel over the cracked dash and use it for all your Mexican forays and camping trips which are within 150 miles of the int’l border. I don’t care WHAT you see Mexican Nationals wearing down there … DITCH the designer clothes, handbags and jewelry and just hang out in Levis, shorts and flip flops or tennis shoes. Bring only ONE credit card in your shoe or belt and store additional cash in your belt or sock.

A Mexican resort 2500 miles away and reached by air is a different story. Follow your travel agent’s advice about where to stay and where to go and don’t rent a car. Walk to recommended establishments near your hotel. If you will be visiting Las Pyramides or other rural attraction out on lonely roads, go with a bus of Americans which was booked by a US-based travel agent.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=desmond][quote=deadzone] As I have before, I challenge somebody to provide a link to an actual case. Last time I challenged the piggs to do this the crickets were chriping loudly.[/quote]

You can continue your trips to Baja DZ, but your continued denial of what is going on down there can bring harm to others. Here is a link, I am sure you will make some excuse about it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_162-6044922.html

This is the last part of the article:

Chris: Even Tyler still talks about the happy times… still talks about his favorite burrito shop.

Divinia: There were so many times that were good that completely outweigh the bad.

Chris: I know we’ve lost Mexico and we won’t go back… and we’ll leave it at that.

Divinia: It’s just gonna have to be something that was once upon a time for us…

Mexican authorities never investigated the Hall kidnapping.

In 2008, more than 1,000 kidnappings were reported in Mexico; at least 65 of those ended in death.

Desmo writes: Nobody wants to report it, victims, press, tourism departments, etc. The victims just want to get home and never go back.[/quote]

This post has some good points. Especially the part about victims not reporting the crimes. You do NOT even need to think about DEATHS or MURDERS or worst case scenarios. Just getting mugged or robbed is a scary thing. Forget about the worst case scenarios.

And that point is spot on target about crime statistics. FORGET about official crime statistics in many Latin American countries including Mexico. Sure, the murder #’s are probably accurate but the petty crime stuff and even the more serious stuff are NO WHERE near the true #.

The vast majority of people that get robbed in many Latin American countries don’t report it because they know there is nothing the police can or will do about it for the most part.

I always laugh when people try to throw out some random government statistic and try to make it sound safer than the USA! LOL.

The thing is in the USA people report almost every little crime. Look at the ridiculous police reports in the paper about people reporting something getting taken out of their yard, out of their car, etc. People in most Latin American countries would laugh at you if you told them you took the time to fill out a police report upon getting robbed, mugged, etc. It’s a waste of time.

So totally FORGET about whatever government statistic there is on crime in many of these countries INCLUDING Mexico. The real true #’s of crime is MUCH higher than what you read.

So always remember this when you read some government or “official” statistic on crime in these countries.

Remember something important. These countries can be and ARE fun and really great full of wonderful people. I”m not even saying there is a high probability that something bad will happen. But I think it’s always important to be objective in all these posts.

The plain facts are that the judicial system doesn’t really function in most of these Latin American countries. Or even if they do, they are plagued with a tremendous amount of corruption, fraud and abuse. So imagine someone that files a police report and then the thug retaliates against them or their family. MANY people don’t file police reports because they know the judicial system is fundamentally broken or corrupt.

I could tell you guys some true life stories that would make your heads spin. Trust me. The judicial system doesn’t work in many of these countries. Or if it does, it could be many many years later when it wouldn’t really matter.

[Anonymous]

I still have not seen a single legitimate news story about an American Tourist being murdered in Baja. Can anybody find one? Dave found a story about an American retiree murdered in Ensenada. Seems to me this is a very rare event (American tourists or expats being murdered in Mexico). Can anybody prove otherwise???

[desmond]

I can see the slogan now, “Visit Baja, your chances of being murdered cannot be proven”

[all]

Giant wave kills American tourist in Mexico’s Cabo San Lucas, injures another

A 65-year old woman was killed when a giant wave struck two American tourists strolling on the beach near the famous stone arch in the Mexican resort town of Cabo San Lucas.

[SK in CV]

[quote=all]Giant wave kills American tourist in Mexico’s Cabo San Lucas, injures another

A 65-year old woman was killed when a giant wave struck two American tourists strolling on the beach near the famous stone arch in the Mexican resort town of Cabo San Lucas.[/quote]

Damn Mexican waves. You can’t trust them.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=desmond]I can see the slogan now, “Visit Baja, your chances of being murdered cannot be proven”[/quote]

I don’t think most people are worried about getting murdered. You’re taking the most extreme example. Other bad stuff can happen. I’m NOT saying to stay away. I’m just posting objective facts.

Again, murder is the most extreme example you can use.

Personally I love Mexico and most of the other countries of Central and South America and I visit frequently for vacation and also for work as I do business in many of these countries.

I really love it. I do think you have to stay objective. Do I think your chances of getting murdered are high? Absolutely not. Can other bad stuff happen? Absolutely.

[Anonymous]

Bad stuff can happen anywhere. Nobody claimed Mexico was the safest place in the world. The point is the dangers in Baja specifically are way over hyped.

Once again, nobody has provided any evidence of an American tourist being killed in Baja. I rest my case.

[Anonymous]

You guys are the ones that aren’t being objective. You have no evidence that Baja is any more dangerous for AMERICAN TOURISTS than it was say 10 or 20 years ago. Like most American’s you’ve lost your objectivity and instead base your decisions on hype and fear monguering.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=deadzone]You guys are the ones that aren’t being objective. You have no evidence that Baja is any more dangerous for AMERICAN TOURISTS than it was say 10 or 20 years ago. Like most American’s you’ve lost your objectivity and instead base your decisions on hype and fear monguering.[/quote]

Are you for real? So you think that the general crime rates (forget about murder) hasn’t gotten worse in the past 20 years)??

No, I’m not fear mongering at all. But you seem to really be focused on the murder rates. I didn’t mention anything about murder at all.

[Anonymous]

Yes I am for real. Are you? SHow me some proof that crime in Baja against American tourists has gotten worse.

And again, murder is the worst kind of crime, can you find one single case of an American tourist being murdered in Baja in the last 10 years?

[moneymaker]

More than 90 Americans have been killed in the state south of San Diego since 2003. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29095730/ns/world_news-americas/t/over-americans-killed-mexico/#.UY4gccorYkQ
Is this proof enough?

[SK in CV]

[quote=moneymaker]More than 90 Americans have been killed in the state south of San Diego since 2003. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29095730/ns/world_news-americas/t/over-americans-killed-mexico/#.UY4gccorYkQ
Is this proof enough?[/quote]

I haven’t watched the video. But that is not proof that it’s gotten worse. If it was 200 the previous decade, then it’s better.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=deadzone]Yes I am for real.
[/quote]

We are NOT saying that tons of Americans are getting murdered. Most of us are being objective and saying the crime rate has increased overall in Mexico and things are happening that were NOT happening 20 years ago.

I do agree with you that Baja area is generally safer than many other parts of Mexico. And I’m not even saying anything bad will happen. Odds are if you aren’t involved in any illegal activities you should be fine. But to try to say crime is the same as 20 years ago I wouldn’t find accurate.

I’m not even one of these guys that say “stay out of Mexico”. Quite the contrary and I’ve been to Mexico many times with my family. But even in touristy and safe areas I went to, I would just go to the beach and go to an upscale bar and I still saw guys with guns tucked into their pants. My wife saw the same thing.

I’m not saying that anything bad happened because it didn’t. But the thing is that in many of these types of places you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time when something happens. Same as the USA.

One thing I’ll say is the Mexican government is VERY conscious about how important tourism is and they are doing all they can to prevent violence from happening with tourists. So that is a huge positive.

Read some of these articles.

Look at entities in the UK like the Foreign and Commonwealth Office issuing warnings like: “The FCO advise against all but essential travel to parts of the country (Mexico).

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4860648/Mexico-is-most-dangerous-country-on-the-planet.html#ixzz2T01o7Xgr

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Number-of-Americans-killed-in-Mexico-continues-to-3518659.php

– 113 Americans killed in Mexico in 2011
– 2012 a RECORD 120 Americans were killed in Mexico.

In 2007 it was only 35 Americans killed.

Now deadzone, I don’t claim to be some financial guru but 120 is more than 35. And “record” means that it’s the MOST ever. So I don’t think your “it’s as safe as 20 years ago” holds too much water.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mexico-deadly-journalists-targeted-cartels-article-1.1334310

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/mexican-drug-cartels-move-deeper-u-s-article-1.1304401

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4860648/Mexico-is-most-dangerous-country-on-the-planet.html

Particularly important to note, “”Most victims of crime and violence are Mexicans involved in criminal activity, but the security situation also poses risks for foreigners.”

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/ABC_Univision/acapulco-worlds-nicest-dangerous-resort-city/story?id=18652375#.UY5oEr9vVAQ

Mexico Tops “World’s Most Dangerous Country List”

http://www.firstpost.com/world/mexico-tops-worlds-most-dangerous-country-list-487711.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanielparishflannery/2013/03/18/is-drugwar-violence-scaring-away-mexicos-spring-break-tourists/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/01/06/f-mexico-q-a-walter-mckay.html

http://www.gadling.com/2012/10/24/crime-in-mexico-is-baja-safe-for-travelers/ (It would have sucked to be this AMERICAN bystander that got shot and killed in the cross fire)

http://www.surfermag.com/features/carjackedmexicobaja/ (These guys will probably disagree with you that things are the same as 20 years ago).

http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/avoid-crime-in-baja.html (Particularly interesting is this part, “Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, continues at alarming rates. So-called “express kidnappings,” attempts to get quick cash in exchange for the release of an individual, have occurred in almost all the large cities in Mexico and appear to target the middle class as well as the wealthy. ”

Or maybe this part, “Harassment/Extortion: The U.S. Consulate General in Tijuana receives numerous reports of extortion by supposed police officers in Baja California. Sometimes the perpetrators are actual police officers, and sometimes they are criminals using fake police uniforms and credentials.”

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5815.html

Again, to take note, “The number of kidnappings and disappearances throughout Mexico is of particular concern. Both local and expatriate communities have been victimized. In addition, local police have been implicated in some of these incidents. ”

Also, important, “Baja California (north): Tijuana and Mexicali are major cities/travel destinations in the state of Baja California -see map to identify their exact locations: You should exercise caution in the northern state of Baja California, particularly at night. For the one-year period ending July 2012, the number of murders in Mexicali increased by 43%, from 127 to 181, over the preceding year. The number of murders in the city of Tijuana was 351 for the same period. In the majority of these cases, the killings appeared to be related to narcotics trafficking. Targeted TCO assassinations continue to take place in Baja California. Turf battles between criminal groups resulted in assassinations in areas of Tijuana frequented by U.S. citizens. Shooting incidents, in which innocent bystanders have been injured, have occurred during daylight hours. Twenty-five U.S. citizens were the victims of homicide in the state in the 12-month period ending July 2012.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/fulano_de_tal/2012/jan/15/more-north-american-deaths-in-mexico/

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/fulano_de_tal/2011/oct/26/crimes-against-americans-in-baja/

But then I guess deadzone you will come back and tell us that things are still as safe as the glory days. Right? I can tell you love Mexico and that is great. So do I.

But I kind of equate this kind of thing to a guy that is totally in love with his wife. He is married to her for 30 years and to this guy his wife is as beautiful to him as the day he first met her when she was 20. Now at 50 he finds her more beautiful than ever. Someone shows random strangers the two photos and ask which woman is more beautiful. EVERYONE picks out the younger woman. The old man picks the photo when his wife is older. I look at it kind of like that.

Again, I’m not one of those people that would advise people to not visit Mexico or other countries in Latin or South America. I still say if you aren’t involved in any drugs or illegal activities your chances of being a victim are fairly low, especially if you speak Spanish.

I’ve even been pulled over at a police check point in Brazil and had the police pull me and my friends out of our car on the side of a road and pull out their guns to ask for some money. It was a SCARY experience but it’s not like I stopped going or advised people to stop going there.

Even with all this violence in Mexico the tourism numbers for Americans continue to go up each year which tells you how much Americans love Mexico and rightly so. It’s a wonderful country. But I am not about to say that crime is like it was 20 years ago.

And again, I’d TOTALLY forget about things like murders because that isn’t your biggest risk in Mexico. It’s robberies and as I mentioned, the reported #’s are NO WHERE near accurate.

[Author]

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