- This topic has 135 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 10 months ago by
Bubblesitter.
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February 25, 2011 at 6:53 PM #672456February 25, 2011 at 7:22 PM #671312
CDMA ENG
Participant[quote=flu][quote=patb]its a start, BMW is doing an electric.[/quote]
Not really…They’re doing a much better job making cars with twin turbo v-8’s…..
http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/11/18/world-premiere-2012-bmw-6-series-convertible/%5B/quote%5D
I always thought the Six Series was the Cat’s nuts!
CE
February 25, 2011 at 7:22 PM #671373Participant[quote=flu][quote=patb]its a start, BMW is doing an electric.[/quote]
Not really…They’re doing a much better job making cars with twin turbo v-8’s…..
http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/11/18/world-premiere-2012-bmw-6-series-convertible/%5B/quote%5D
I always thought the Six Series was the Cat’s nuts!
CE
February 25, 2011 at 7:22 PM #671981Participant[quote=flu][quote=patb]its a start, BMW is doing an electric.[/quote]
Not really…They’re doing a much better job making cars with twin turbo v-8’s…..
http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/11/18/world-premiere-2012-bmw-6-series-convertible/%5B/quote%5D
I always thought the Six Series was the Cat’s nuts!
CE
February 25, 2011 at 7:22 PM #672121Participant[quote=flu][quote=patb]its a start, BMW is doing an electric.[/quote]
Not really…They’re doing a much better job making cars with twin turbo v-8’s…..
http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/11/18/world-premiere-2012-bmw-6-series-convertible/%5B/quote%5D
I always thought the Six Series was the Cat’s nuts!
CE
February 25, 2011 at 7:22 PM #672466Participant[quote=flu][quote=patb]its a start, BMW is doing an electric.[/quote]
Not really…They’re doing a much better job making cars with twin turbo v-8’s…..
http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/11/18/world-premiere-2012-bmw-6-series-convertible/%5B/quote%5D
I always thought the Six Series was the Cat’s nuts!
CE
February 25, 2011 at 8:29 PM #671342Eugene
Participant[quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
I was talking about the difference between the wall to wheels efficiency and the battery to wheels efficiency. That can very well be ~10%.
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.
February 25, 2011 at 8:29 PM #671403Participant[quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
I was talking about the difference between the wall to wheels efficiency and the battery to wheels efficiency. That can very well be ~10%.
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.
February 25, 2011 at 8:29 PM #672011Participant[quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
I was talking about the difference between the wall to wheels efficiency and the battery to wheels efficiency. That can very well be ~10%.
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.
February 25, 2011 at 8:29 PM #672152Participant[quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
I was talking about the difference between the wall to wheels efficiency and the battery to wheels efficiency. That can very well be ~10%.
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.
February 25, 2011 at 8:29 PM #672496Participant[quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
I was talking about the difference between the wall to wheels efficiency and the battery to wheels efficiency. That can very well be ~10%.
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.
February 26, 2011 at 12:41 PM #671552ucodegen
Participant[quote=Eugene][quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.[/quote]
I took the numbers from real figures and sources. I used the AC-DC power conversion on standards for switching power supplies. Linears are far worse at 40%-60%.
[quote=Eugene]
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.[/quote]
That is not an honest comparison because you are dropping parts of the conversion. You are ignoring powerplant and transmission losses which are part of what happens on electric cars. Co-located solar is the only way you get away from it. I already mentioned that electric motors are around 80% efficient vs top end on internal combustion are 40% (see what I posted above) which confirms the 2x. The problem is.. how was the electricity generated?February 26, 2011 at 12:41 PM #671613Participant[quote=Eugene][quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.[/quote]
I took the numbers from real figures and sources. I used the AC-DC power conversion on standards for switching power supplies. Linears are far worse at 40%-60%.
[quote=Eugene]
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.[/quote]
That is not an honest comparison because you are dropping parts of the conversion. You are ignoring powerplant and transmission losses which are part of what happens on electric cars. Co-located solar is the only way you get away from it. I already mentioned that electric motors are around 80% efficient vs top end on internal combustion are 40% (see what I posted above) which confirms the 2x. The problem is.. how was the electricity generated?February 26, 2011 at 12:41 PM #672223Participant[quote=Eugene][quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.[/quote]
I took the numbers from real figures and sources. I used the AC-DC power conversion on standards for switching power supplies. Linears are far worse at 40%-60%.
[quote=Eugene]
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.[/quote]
That is not an honest comparison because you are dropping parts of the conversion. You are ignoring powerplant and transmission losses which are part of what happens on electric cars. Co-located solar is the only way you get away from it. I already mentioned that electric motors are around 80% efficient vs top end on internal combustion are 40% (see what I posted above) which confirms the 2x. The problem is.. how was the electricity generated?February 26, 2011 at 12:41 PM #672362Participant[quote=Eugene][quote]Wall to wheels efficiency is much worse than 90% (your 10%loss mentioned above translated to efficiency.).[/quote]
Your numbers seem very pessimistic to me. Particularly the AC to DC conversion. You can do much better than that.[/quote]
I took the numbers from real figures and sources. I used the AC-DC power conversion on standards for switching power supplies. Linears are far worse at 40%-60%.
[quote=Eugene]
If we want to compare real efficiency (including every step of the process), let’s do Leaf vs. Prius. Leaf goes ~80 freeway miles at ~25 kwh of electricity. Prius goes 50 freeway miles at 1 gallon of gas (=33 kwh of energy). It seems to me that Leaf is 2 times more efficient than Prius.[/quote]
That is not an honest comparison because you are dropping parts of the conversion. You are ignoring powerplant and transmission losses which are part of what happens on electric cars. Co-located solar is the only way you get away from it. I already mentioned that electric motors are around 80% efficient vs top end on internal combustion are 40% (see what I posted above) which confirms the 2x. The problem is.. how was the electricity generated? -
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