Solar car?! WTF?!

[Eugene]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan]
What do you mean by the economics aren’t there ?

The Nissan LEaf is capable of 80-100 miles on a single charge, which costs less than $5. The purchase price of the car is in the $20-30K range.
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index#/leaf-electric-car/index

A Solar suystem may be leased for $0 down and approximately the same monthly cost as a typical electric bill (assuming at least $150 per month in usage, which would likely apply for anyone who had an electric car, A/C).
http://www.solarcity.com[/quote%5D

The Nissan Leaf is EPA rated at 73 miles per charge and 34 kwh per 100 miles. (This last number may be battery-to-wheels, then wall-to-wheels would be about 10% worse, but let’s go with 34 kwh.)

Because of the low range and long recharge time, interstate trips are out of the question, so your annual mileage will be below average, say, 10,000 miles. You need a PV system that produces 3400 kwh/year. In San Diego, that’s 2.5 kw DC.

You can get a system of that size installed for about 12k after tax breaks.

Add 25k for the car itself. (People are getting it for 20k because there’s a 5k California credit, but there’s not much money allocated for the credit, and there’s a long waitlist to get the Leaf, so even if you get in line today, the money may run out.) 27k after the sales tax.

You will also need to install a charger in your garage. Not sure how much the charger is, but let’s say $1000.

So you can get a PV car setup that will require zero energy until either the car or the PV system breaks, and it will cost you 40k out of pocket.

If you don’t want to get the car and the PV system at the same time, you can power the car off the grid. At the SDG&E EV rate you will pay $50/month for the electricity, plus whatever they charge you to install a second meter.

[CDMA ENG]

Ok… So I am going back retracting my retraction… Not very wise maybe… But after I understood what he was really proposing I have to say the economics are not there (again). I arrive at the same conclusion Eugene did after google’ing some things. One of the most intriguing bits of information was from Nissan. I ran across the “range” information for the car. Take a look.

__________________________________________________
your Nissan LEAF™ is built to go 100 miles on a single charge*how far you’ll go will depend on a number of variables

DISCLAIMER *Based upon EPA LA4 test cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml . Gradual loss of capacity in battery will result with time and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.

depending on the conditions, when your battery is new your range may vary anywhere from 138 – 62 miles. range is most affected by:Climate control – the more extreme the temperature is outside, the more energy used to heat or cool the cabin.

Speed – higher speeds require much more energy to overcome air resistance.

Driving style – smooth acceleration and deceleration will extend range while aggressive acceleration and deceleration will decrease range.

Cargo and topography – heavy cargo and driving up steep long inclines will reduce range.

there are an infinite number of range scenarios*, based on many variables. here are just a few, starting with the EPA LA4 test cycle:EPA LA4 test cycle: 100 milesThe Nissan LEAF has been tested under the EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, a laboratory test commonly called the LA4 test cycle, which represents city driving conditions. Top speed is 56.7 mph and average speed is 19.59 mph. Ambient temperature can vary from 68 – 86 degrees. Climate control is off. The Nissan LEAF easily achieved 100 miles.

Ideal driving conditions: 138 milesSpeed: Constant 38 mph

Temperature: 68 degrees

Climate control: Off

Driving on a flat road at a constant 38 mph means less air resistance, and therefore less energy use. And at 68 degrees, there’s no need for climate control, extending the range even further. The result: a range boost up to 138 miles.

Suburban driving on a nice day: 105 milesSpeed: Average 24 mph

Temperature: 72 degrees

Climate control: Off

The average speed in this scenario is 24 mph; common when commuting and running errands. The ambient temperature is 72 degrees and the climate control is off. Not using the air conditioner and driving at slower speeds mean less energy use and a little extra range.

Highway driving in the summer: 70 milesSpeed: Average 55 mph

Temperature: 95 degrees

Climate control: On

Averaging 55 mph on the highway, in 95 degree weather, with the air conditioning on high may produce range figures like this. Higher speeds require more energy to overcome air resistance. Running the air conditioner means energy that could be used to increase range instead goes to cooling the car.

Cross-town commute on a hot day: 68 milesSpeed: Average 49 mph

Temperature: 110 degrees

Climate control: On

Driving from a rural area into the city at an average 49 mph with the a/c on high may produce this range. Under these conditions, climate control combined with higher-speed driving produces increased energy consumption, hence the effect on range.

Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 milesSpeed: Average 15 mph

Temperature: 14 degrees

Climate control: On

Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

DISCLAIMER *All above scenarios based on new battery life. Estimated range based upon specific variables studied through computer simulations.
Scroll upScroll down
how you drive your Nissan LEAF™ will impact rangeto get the most out of every charge, try:

using a moderate temperature setting inside the cabin (use of the air conditioner and heater draw energy from the battery).
pre-heating or pre-cooling the cabin before you unplug (you can set a timer or use your Smartphone).
driving at slower, constant speeds.
using eco mode.
destination charging.
the Nissan LEAF has a number of features to help you maximize your range and keep you charged up:CARWINGS™ information system*Updates the navigation system with current charging station locations in your area
Monitors the state of charge from your Smartphone or computer
Remotely starts vehicle charging
Provides connectivity to start and stop the climate control system in the vehicle remotely via your Smartphone or computer
Reminds you to plug in the car if you forget
Is provided to you complimentary for three years
The LEAF onboard navigation systemIs “smart” enough to tell you based on destination input and state of charge whether you have the range to “make it,” and if not, search for nearby charging station along the route
Displays your current range radius
Will alert you if you need to charge
Shows you where you can find the nearest available charge station
Displays how much charge you have left and how many miles remain
Has a real time energy usage screen which shows you how much energy is being used, regenerated, how much further you can drive, and the real time impact of using climate control on your range
Multi-function display drive computerMeasures energy economy, kWh/mile, similar to a MPG meter
Calculates estimated charging time under 120V and 240V power
Regenerative braking – Every time you coast or apply the brakes in the Nissan LEAF, the electric motor acts as an electric generator, converting energy that would otherwise be wasted into battery energy. So even when you’re slowing down, you’re charging up.

Eco mode – This driver selectable mode reduces air conditioning, increases regenerative braking, and could increase your range by up to 10%.

Power meter – Indicates the regeneration power level provided to the Li-ion battery system and the energy (power) consumption level when driving.

Eco-indicator – The meter displays an illustrated ECO driving level calculated from conditions such as accelerator pedal and brake pedal operations, air conditioner usage and idling time of the electric motor.

Lithium ion battery empty warning light – When your battery has 4kWh remaining, your empty warning light will come on. A notification on your screen will indicate where to find all charging stations within range.

Power limitation mode – In the event that your battery becomes critically low, power limitation mode will automatically minimize your energy consumption and reduce your speed to help you get to a charging dock.

Complimentary three years roadside assistance

DISCLAIMER *CARWINGS™ communicates through a cellular network which may not be available in all areas. Signal strength may vary and be limited for the Nissan LEAF and your location. Certain remote functions require a compatible smartphone, not included with vehicle. CARWINGS™ information system features are included through a subscription service which is complimentary in the price of the vehicle for the first 36 months. After that time, a subscription service can be purchased.
Scroll upScroll downTake survey later
__________________________________________________

So…

25K for the car after some govt rebate. 12K for the generation system (also a fair number to use), which does have the side benefit of selling power or banking it… Plus the maintenance of both the car and the system which remains unknown but lets say 4K over the lifetime of both (a very conservative number) so you are roughly up to 41K for a car… That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.

To me the economics just aren’t there. Maybe in ten years but not right now.

Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…

Flame Away…

CE

[CDMA ENG]

Ok… So I am going back retracting my retraction… Not very wise maybe… But after I understood what he was really proposing I have to say the economics are not there (again). I arrive at the same conclusion Eugene did after google’ing some things. One of the most intriguing bits of information was from Nissan. I ran across the “range” information for the car. Take a look.

__________________________________________________
your Nissan LEAF™ is built to go 100 miles on a single charge*how far you’ll go will depend on a number of variables

DISCLAIMER *Based upon EPA LA4 test cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml . Gradual loss of capacity in battery will result with time and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.

depending on the conditions, when your battery is new your range may vary anywhere from 138 – 62 miles. range is most affected by:Climate control – the more extreme the temperature is outside, the more energy used to heat or cool the cabin.

Speed – higher speeds require much more energy to overcome air resistance.

Driving style – smooth acceleration and deceleration will extend range while aggressive acceleration and deceleration will decrease range.

Cargo and topography – heavy cargo and driving up steep long inclines will reduce range.

there are an infinite number of range scenarios*, based on many variables. here are just a few, starting with the EPA LA4 test cycle:EPA LA4 test cycle: 100 milesThe Nissan LEAF has been tested under the EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, a laboratory test commonly called the LA4 test cycle, which represents city driving conditions. Top speed is 56.7 mph and average speed is 19.59 mph. Ambient temperature can vary from 68 – 86 degrees. Climate control is off. The Nissan LEAF easily achieved 100 miles.

Ideal driving conditions: 138 milesSpeed: Constant 38 mph

Temperature: 68 degrees

Climate control: Off

Driving on a flat road at a constant 38 mph means less air resistance, and therefore less energy use. And at 68 degrees, there’s no need for climate control, extending the range even further. The result: a range boost up to 138 miles.

Suburban driving on a nice day: 105 milesSpeed: Average 24 mph

Temperature: 72 degrees

Climate control: Off

The average speed in this scenario is 24 mph; common when commuting and running errands. The ambient temperature is 72 degrees and the climate control is off. Not using the air conditioner and driving at slower speeds mean less energy use and a little extra range.

Highway driving in the summer: 70 milesSpeed: Average 55 mph

Temperature: 95 degrees

Climate control: On

Averaging 55 mph on the highway, in 95 degree weather, with the air conditioning on high may produce range figures like this. Higher speeds require more energy to overcome air resistance. Running the air conditioner means energy that could be used to increase range instead goes to cooling the car.

Cross-town commute on a hot day: 68 milesSpeed: Average 49 mph

Temperature: 110 degrees

Climate control: On

Driving from a rural area into the city at an average 49 mph with the a/c on high may produce this range. Under these conditions, climate control combined with higher-speed driving produces increased energy consumption, hence the effect on range.

Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 milesSpeed: Average 15 mph

Temperature: 14 degrees

Climate control: On

Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

DISCLAIMER *All above scenarios based on new battery life. Estimated range based upon specific variables studied through computer simulations.
Scroll upScroll down
how you drive your Nissan LEAF™ will impact rangeto get the most out of every charge, try:

using a moderate temperature setting inside the cabin (use of the air conditioner and heater draw energy from the battery).
pre-heating or pre-cooling the cabin before you unplug (you can set a timer or use your Smartphone).
driving at slower, constant speeds.
using eco mode.
destination charging.
the Nissan LEAF has a number of features to help you maximize your range and keep you charged up:CARWINGS™ information system*Updates the navigation system with current charging station locations in your area
Monitors the state of charge from your Smartphone or computer
Remotely starts vehicle charging
Provides connectivity to start and stop the climate control system in the vehicle remotely via your Smartphone or computer
Reminds you to plug in the car if you forget
Is provided to you complimentary for three years
The LEAF onboard navigation systemIs “smart” enough to tell you based on destination input and state of charge whether you have the range to “make it,” and if not, search for nearby charging station along the route
Displays your current range radius
Will alert you if you need to charge
Shows you where you can find the nearest available charge station
Displays how much charge you have left and how many miles remain
Has a real time energy usage screen which shows you how much energy is being used, regenerated, how much further you can drive, and the real time impact of using climate control on your range
Multi-function display drive computerMeasures energy economy, kWh/mile, similar to a MPG meter
Calculates estimated charging time under 120V and 240V power
Regenerative braking – Every time you coast or apply the brakes in the Nissan LEAF, the electric motor acts as an electric generator, converting energy that would otherwise be wasted into battery energy. So even when you’re slowing down, you’re charging up.

Eco mode – This driver selectable mode reduces air conditioning, increases regenerative braking, and could increase your range by up to 10%.

Power meter – Indicates the regeneration power level provided to the Li-ion battery system and the energy (power) consumption level when driving.

Eco-indicator – The meter displays an illustrated ECO driving level calculated from conditions such as accelerator pedal and brake pedal operations, air conditioner usage and idling time of the electric motor.

Lithium ion battery empty warning light – When your battery has 4kWh remaining, your empty warning light will come on. A notification on your screen will indicate where to find all charging stations within range.

Power limitation mode – In the event that your battery becomes critically low, power limitation mode will automatically minimize your energy consumption and reduce your speed to help you get to a charging dock.

Complimentary three years roadside assistance

DISCLAIMER *CARWINGS™ communicates through a cellular network which may not be available in all areas. Signal strength may vary and be limited for the Nissan LEAF and your location. Certain remote functions require a compatible smartphone, not included with vehicle. CARWINGS™ information system features are included through a subscription service which is complimentary in the price of the vehicle for the first 36 months. After that time, a subscription service can be purchased.
Scroll upScroll downTake survey later
__________________________________________________

So…

25K for the car after some govt rebate. 12K for the generation system (also a fair number to use), which does have the side benefit of selling power or banking it… Plus the maintenance of both the car and the system which remains unknown but lets say 4K over the lifetime of both (a very conservative number) so you are roughly up to 41K for a car… That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.

To me the economics just aren’t there. Maybe in ten years but not right now.

Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…

Flame Away…

CE

[CDMA ENG]

Ok… So I am going back retracting my retraction… Not very wise maybe… But after I understood what he was really proposing I have to say the economics are not there (again). I arrive at the same conclusion Eugene did after google’ing some things. One of the most intriguing bits of information was from Nissan. I ran across the “range” information for the car. Take a look.

__________________________________________________
your Nissan LEAF™ is built to go 100 miles on a single charge*how far you’ll go will depend on a number of variables

DISCLAIMER *Based upon EPA LA4 test cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml . Gradual loss of capacity in battery will result with time and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.

depending on the conditions, when your battery is new your range may vary anywhere from 138 – 62 miles. range is most affected by:Climate control – the more extreme the temperature is outside, the more energy used to heat or cool the cabin.

Speed – higher speeds require much more energy to overcome air resistance.

Driving style – smooth acceleration and deceleration will extend range while aggressive acceleration and deceleration will decrease range.

Cargo and topography – heavy cargo and driving up steep long inclines will reduce range.

there are an infinite number of range scenarios*, based on many variables. here are just a few, starting with the EPA LA4 test cycle:EPA LA4 test cycle: 100 milesThe Nissan LEAF has been tested under the EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, a laboratory test commonly called the LA4 test cycle, which represents city driving conditions. Top speed is 56.7 mph and average speed is 19.59 mph. Ambient temperature can vary from 68 – 86 degrees. Climate control is off. The Nissan LEAF easily achieved 100 miles.

Ideal driving conditions: 138 milesSpeed: Constant 38 mph

Temperature: 68 degrees

Climate control: Off

Driving on a flat road at a constant 38 mph means less air resistance, and therefore less energy use. And at 68 degrees, there’s no need for climate control, extending the range even further. The result: a range boost up to 138 miles.

Suburban driving on a nice day: 105 milesSpeed: Average 24 mph

Temperature: 72 degrees

Climate control: Off

The average speed in this scenario is 24 mph; common when commuting and running errands. The ambient temperature is 72 degrees and the climate control is off. Not using the air conditioner and driving at slower speeds mean less energy use and a little extra range.

Highway driving in the summer: 70 milesSpeed: Average 55 mph

Temperature: 95 degrees

Climate control: On

Averaging 55 mph on the highway, in 95 degree weather, with the air conditioning on high may produce range figures like this. Higher speeds require more energy to overcome air resistance. Running the air conditioner means energy that could be used to increase range instead goes to cooling the car.

Cross-town commute on a hot day: 68 milesSpeed: Average 49 mph

Temperature: 110 degrees

Climate control: On

Driving from a rural area into the city at an average 49 mph with the a/c on high may produce this range. Under these conditions, climate control combined with higher-speed driving produces increased energy consumption, hence the effect on range.

Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 milesSpeed: Average 15 mph

Temperature: 14 degrees

Climate control: On

Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

DISCLAIMER *All above scenarios based on new battery life. Estimated range based upon specific variables studied through computer simulations.
Scroll upScroll down
how you drive your Nissan LEAF™ will impact rangeto get the most out of every charge, try:

using a moderate temperature setting inside the cabin (use of the air conditioner and heater draw energy from the battery).
pre-heating or pre-cooling the cabin before you unplug (you can set a timer or use your Smartphone).
driving at slower, constant speeds.
using eco mode.
destination charging.
the Nissan LEAF has a number of features to help you maximize your range and keep you charged up:CARWINGS™ information system*Updates the navigation system with current charging station locations in your area
Monitors the state of charge from your Smartphone or computer
Remotely starts vehicle charging
Provides connectivity to start and stop the climate control system in the vehicle remotely via your Smartphone or computer
Reminds you to plug in the car if you forget
Is provided to you complimentary for three years
The LEAF onboard navigation systemIs “smart” enough to tell you based on destination input and state of charge whether you have the range to “make it,” and if not, search for nearby charging station along the route
Displays your current range radius
Will alert you if you need to charge
Shows you where you can find the nearest available charge station
Displays how much charge you have left and how many miles remain
Has a real time energy usage screen which shows you how much energy is being used, regenerated, how much further you can drive, and the real time impact of using climate control on your range
Multi-function display drive computerMeasures energy economy, kWh/mile, similar to a MPG meter
Calculates estimated charging time under 120V and 240V power
Regenerative braking – Every time you coast or apply the brakes in the Nissan LEAF, the electric motor acts as an electric generator, converting energy that would otherwise be wasted into battery energy. So even when you’re slowing down, you’re charging up.

Eco mode – This driver selectable mode reduces air conditioning, increases regenerative braking, and could increase your range by up to 10%.

Power meter – Indicates the regeneration power level provided to the Li-ion battery system and the energy (power) consumption level when driving.

Eco-indicator – The meter displays an illustrated ECO driving level calculated from conditions such as accelerator pedal and brake pedal operations, air conditioner usage and idling time of the electric motor.

Lithium ion battery empty warning light – When your battery has 4kWh remaining, your empty warning light will come on. A notification on your screen will indicate where to find all charging stations within range.

Power limitation mode – In the event that your battery becomes critically low, power limitation mode will automatically minimize your energy consumption and reduce your speed to help you get to a charging dock.

Complimentary three years roadside assistance

DISCLAIMER *CARWINGS™ communicates through a cellular network which may not be available in all areas. Signal strength may vary and be limited for the Nissan LEAF and your location. Certain remote functions require a compatible smartphone, not included with vehicle. CARWINGS™ information system features are included through a subscription service which is complimentary in the price of the vehicle for the first 36 months. After that time, a subscription service can be purchased.
Scroll upScroll downTake survey later
__________________________________________________

So…

25K for the car after some govt rebate. 12K for the generation system (also a fair number to use), which does have the side benefit of selling power or banking it… Plus the maintenance of both the car and the system which remains unknown but lets say 4K over the lifetime of both (a very conservative number) so you are roughly up to 41K for a car… That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.

To me the economics just aren’t there. Maybe in ten years but not right now.

Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…

Flame Away…

CE

[CDMA ENG]

Ok… So I am going back retracting my retraction… Not very wise maybe… But after I understood what he was really proposing I have to say the economics are not there (again). I arrive at the same conclusion Eugene did after google’ing some things. One of the most intriguing bits of information was from Nissan. I ran across the “range” information for the car. Take a look.

__________________________________________________
your Nissan LEAF™ is built to go 100 miles on a single charge*how far you’ll go will depend on a number of variables

DISCLAIMER *Based upon EPA LA4 test cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml . Gradual loss of capacity in battery will result with time and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.

depending on the conditions, when your battery is new your range may vary anywhere from 138 – 62 miles. range is most affected by:Climate control – the more extreme the temperature is outside, the more energy used to heat or cool the cabin.

Speed – higher speeds require much more energy to overcome air resistance.

Driving style – smooth acceleration and deceleration will extend range while aggressive acceleration and deceleration will decrease range.

Cargo and topography – heavy cargo and driving up steep long inclines will reduce range.

there are an infinite number of range scenarios*, based on many variables. here are just a few, starting with the EPA LA4 test cycle:EPA LA4 test cycle: 100 milesThe Nissan LEAF has been tested under the EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, a laboratory test commonly called the LA4 test cycle, which represents city driving conditions. Top speed is 56.7 mph and average speed is 19.59 mph. Ambient temperature can vary from 68 – 86 degrees. Climate control is off. The Nissan LEAF easily achieved 100 miles.

Ideal driving conditions: 138 milesSpeed: Constant 38 mph

Temperature: 68 degrees

Climate control: Off

Driving on a flat road at a constant 38 mph means less air resistance, and therefore less energy use. And at 68 degrees, there’s no need for climate control, extending the range even further. The result: a range boost up to 138 miles.

Suburban driving on a nice day: 105 milesSpeed: Average 24 mph

Temperature: 72 degrees

Climate control: Off

The average speed in this scenario is 24 mph; common when commuting and running errands. The ambient temperature is 72 degrees and the climate control is off. Not using the air conditioner and driving at slower speeds mean less energy use and a little extra range.

Highway driving in the summer: 70 milesSpeed: Average 55 mph

Temperature: 95 degrees

Climate control: On

Averaging 55 mph on the highway, in 95 degree weather, with the air conditioning on high may produce range figures like this. Higher speeds require more energy to overcome air resistance. Running the air conditioner means energy that could be used to increase range instead goes to cooling the car.

Cross-town commute on a hot day: 68 milesSpeed: Average 49 mph

Temperature: 110 degrees

Climate control: On

Driving from a rural area into the city at an average 49 mph with the a/c on high may produce this range. Under these conditions, climate control combined with higher-speed driving produces increased energy consumption, hence the effect on range.

Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 milesSpeed: Average 15 mph

Temperature: 14 degrees

Climate control: On

Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

DISCLAIMER *All above scenarios based on new battery life. Estimated range based upon specific variables studied through computer simulations.
Scroll upScroll down
how you drive your Nissan LEAF™ will impact rangeto get the most out of every charge, try:

using a moderate temperature setting inside the cabin (use of the air conditioner and heater draw energy from the battery).
pre-heating or pre-cooling the cabin before you unplug (you can set a timer or use your Smartphone).
driving at slower, constant speeds.
using eco mode.
destination charging.
the Nissan LEAF has a number of features to help you maximize your range and keep you charged up:CARWINGS™ information system*Updates the navigation system with current charging station locations in your area
Monitors the state of charge from your Smartphone or computer
Remotely starts vehicle charging
Provides connectivity to start and stop the climate control system in the vehicle remotely via your Smartphone or computer
Reminds you to plug in the car if you forget
Is provided to you complimentary for three years
The LEAF onboard navigation systemIs “smart” enough to tell you based on destination input and state of charge whether you have the range to “make it,” and if not, search for nearby charging station along the route
Displays your current range radius
Will alert you if you need to charge
Shows you where you can find the nearest available charge station
Displays how much charge you have left and how many miles remain
Has a real time energy usage screen which shows you how much energy is being used, regenerated, how much further you can drive, and the real time impact of using climate control on your range
Multi-function display drive computerMeasures energy economy, kWh/mile, similar to a MPG meter
Calculates estimated charging time under 120V and 240V power
Regenerative braking – Every time you coast or apply the brakes in the Nissan LEAF, the electric motor acts as an electric generator, converting energy that would otherwise be wasted into battery energy. So even when you’re slowing down, you’re charging up.

Eco mode – This driver selectable mode reduces air conditioning, increases regenerative braking, and could increase your range by up to 10%.

Power meter – Indicates the regeneration power level provided to the Li-ion battery system and the energy (power) consumption level when driving.

Eco-indicator – The meter displays an illustrated ECO driving level calculated from conditions such as accelerator pedal and brake pedal operations, air conditioner usage and idling time of the electric motor.

Lithium ion battery empty warning light – When your battery has 4kWh remaining, your empty warning light will come on. A notification on your screen will indicate where to find all charging stations within range.

Power limitation mode – In the event that your battery becomes critically low, power limitation mode will automatically minimize your energy consumption and reduce your speed to help you get to a charging dock.

Complimentary three years roadside assistance

DISCLAIMER *CARWINGS™ communicates through a cellular network which may not be available in all areas. Signal strength may vary and be limited for the Nissan LEAF and your location. Certain remote functions require a compatible smartphone, not included with vehicle. CARWINGS™ information system features are included through a subscription service which is complimentary in the price of the vehicle for the first 36 months. After that time, a subscription service can be purchased.
Scroll upScroll downTake survey later
__________________________________________________

So…

25K for the car after some govt rebate. 12K for the generation system (also a fair number to use), which does have the side benefit of selling power or banking it… Plus the maintenance of both the car and the system which remains unknown but lets say 4K over the lifetime of both (a very conservative number) so you are roughly up to 41K for a car… That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.

To me the economics just aren’t there. Maybe in ten years but not right now.

Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…

Flame Away…

CE

[CDMA ENG]

Ok… So I am going back retracting my retraction… Not very wise maybe… But after I understood what he was really proposing I have to say the economics are not there (again). I arrive at the same conclusion Eugene did after google’ing some things. One of the most intriguing bits of information was from Nissan. I ran across the “range” information for the car. Take a look.

__________________________________________________
your Nissan LEAF™ is built to go 100 miles on a single charge*how far you’ll go will depend on a number of variables

DISCLAIMER *Based upon EPA LA4 test cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml . Gradual loss of capacity in battery will result with time and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.

depending on the conditions, when your battery is new your range may vary anywhere from 138 – 62 miles. range is most affected by:Climate control – the more extreme the temperature is outside, the more energy used to heat or cool the cabin.

Speed – higher speeds require much more energy to overcome air resistance.

Driving style – smooth acceleration and deceleration will extend range while aggressive acceleration and deceleration will decrease range.

Cargo and topography – heavy cargo and driving up steep long inclines will reduce range.

there are an infinite number of range scenarios*, based on many variables. here are just a few, starting with the EPA LA4 test cycle:EPA LA4 test cycle: 100 milesThe Nissan LEAF has been tested under the EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, a laboratory test commonly called the LA4 test cycle, which represents city driving conditions. Top speed is 56.7 mph and average speed is 19.59 mph. Ambient temperature can vary from 68 – 86 degrees. Climate control is off. The Nissan LEAF easily achieved 100 miles.

Ideal driving conditions: 138 milesSpeed: Constant 38 mph

Temperature: 68 degrees

Climate control: Off

Driving on a flat road at a constant 38 mph means less air resistance, and therefore less energy use. And at 68 degrees, there’s no need for climate control, extending the range even further. The result: a range boost up to 138 miles.

Suburban driving on a nice day: 105 milesSpeed: Average 24 mph

Temperature: 72 degrees

Climate control: Off

The average speed in this scenario is 24 mph; common when commuting and running errands. The ambient temperature is 72 degrees and the climate control is off. Not using the air conditioner and driving at slower speeds mean less energy use and a little extra range.

Highway driving in the summer: 70 milesSpeed: Average 55 mph

Temperature: 95 degrees

Climate control: On

Averaging 55 mph on the highway, in 95 degree weather, with the air conditioning on high may produce range figures like this. Higher speeds require more energy to overcome air resistance. Running the air conditioner means energy that could be used to increase range instead goes to cooling the car.

Cross-town commute on a hot day: 68 milesSpeed: Average 49 mph

Temperature: 110 degrees

Climate control: On

Driving from a rural area into the city at an average 49 mph with the a/c on high may produce this range. Under these conditions, climate control combined with higher-speed driving produces increased energy consumption, hence the effect on range.

Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 milesSpeed: Average 15 mph

Temperature: 14 degrees

Climate control: On

Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

DISCLAIMER *All above scenarios based on new battery life. Estimated range based upon specific variables studied through computer simulations.
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how you drive your Nissan LEAF™ will impact rangeto get the most out of every charge, try:

using a moderate temperature setting inside the cabin (use of the air conditioner and heater draw energy from the battery).
pre-heating or pre-cooling the cabin before you unplug (you can set a timer or use your Smartphone).
driving at slower, constant speeds.
using eco mode.
destination charging.
the Nissan LEAF has a number of features to help you maximize your range and keep you charged up:CARWINGS™ information system*Updates the navigation system with current charging station locations in your area
Monitors the state of charge from your Smartphone or computer
Remotely starts vehicle charging
Provides connectivity to start and stop the climate control system in the vehicle remotely via your Smartphone or computer
Reminds you to plug in the car if you forget
Is provided to you complimentary for three years
The LEAF onboard navigation systemIs “smart” enough to tell you based on destination input and state of charge whether you have the range to “make it,” and if not, search for nearby charging station along the route
Displays your current range radius
Will alert you if you need to charge
Shows you where you can find the nearest available charge station
Displays how much charge you have left and how many miles remain
Has a real time energy usage screen which shows you how much energy is being used, regenerated, how much further you can drive, and the real time impact of using climate control on your range
Multi-function display drive computerMeasures energy economy, kWh/mile, similar to a MPG meter
Calculates estimated charging time under 120V and 240V power
Regenerative braking – Every time you coast or apply the brakes in the Nissan LEAF, the electric motor acts as an electric generator, converting energy that would otherwise be wasted into battery energy. So even when you’re slowing down, you’re charging up.

Eco mode – This driver selectable mode reduces air conditioning, increases regenerative braking, and could increase your range by up to 10%.

Power meter – Indicates the regeneration power level provided to the Li-ion battery system and the energy (power) consumption level when driving.

Eco-indicator – The meter displays an illustrated ECO driving level calculated from conditions such as accelerator pedal and brake pedal operations, air conditioner usage and idling time of the electric motor.

Lithium ion battery empty warning light – When your battery has 4kWh remaining, your empty warning light will come on. A notification on your screen will indicate where to find all charging stations within range.

Power limitation mode – In the event that your battery becomes critically low, power limitation mode will automatically minimize your energy consumption and reduce your speed to help you get to a charging dock.

Complimentary three years roadside assistance

DISCLAIMER *CARWINGS™ communicates through a cellular network which may not be available in all areas. Signal strength may vary and be limited for the Nissan LEAF and your location. Certain remote functions require a compatible smartphone, not included with vehicle. CARWINGS™ information system features are included through a subscription service which is complimentary in the price of the vehicle for the first 36 months. After that time, a subscription service can be purchased.
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So…

25K for the car after some govt rebate. 12K for the generation system (also a fair number to use), which does have the side benefit of selling power or banking it… Plus the maintenance of both the car and the system which remains unknown but lets say 4K over the lifetime of both (a very conservative number) so you are roughly up to 41K for a car… That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.

To me the economics just aren’t there. Maybe in ten years but not right now.

Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…

Flame Away…

CE

[Eugene]

[quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.

[Eugene]

[quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.

[Eugene]

[quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.

[Eugene]

[quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.

[Eugene]

[quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=Eugene][quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.[/quote]

Maybe true but I cant get excited about that range. Especially as the life of the batteries began to fail.

I would say it makes a lot more since if you bought a new home and were already in the mindset that you were going to build a PV grid anway. Then the car would be icing on the cake but from what I have seen so far the leaf is not that impressive.

Also PV systems used to be, I don’t honestly know anymore, a huge pain in the ass to maintain. The whole PV thing is a little bit of a lifestyle kind of thing. I am not sure I like the headache of something like that.

A place like SD is very ideal for the leaf… Good battery temperature. I a place like PHX or SEATAC… Not much sense.

Again the car makes sense but only when all the conditions are just right.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=Eugene][quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.[/quote]

Maybe true but I cant get excited about that range. Especially as the life of the batteries began to fail.

I would say it makes a lot more since if you bought a new home and were already in the mindset that you were going to build a PV grid anway. Then the car would be icing on the cake but from what I have seen so far the leaf is not that impressive.

Also PV systems used to be, I don’t honestly know anymore, a huge pain in the ass to maintain. The whole PV thing is a little bit of a lifestyle kind of thing. I am not sure I like the headache of something like that.

A place like SD is very ideal for the leaf… Good battery temperature. I a place like PHX or SEATAC… Not much sense.

Again the car makes sense but only when all the conditions are just right.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=Eugene][quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.[/quote]

Maybe true but I cant get excited about that range. Especially as the life of the batteries began to fail.

I would say it makes a lot more since if you bought a new home and were already in the mindset that you were going to build a PV grid anway. Then the car would be icing on the cake but from what I have seen so far the leaf is not that impressive.

Also PV systems used to be, I don’t honestly know anymore, a huge pain in the ass to maintain. The whole PV thing is a little bit of a lifestyle kind of thing. I am not sure I like the headache of something like that.

A place like SD is very ideal for the leaf… Good battery temperature. I a place like PHX or SEATAC… Not much sense.

Again the car makes sense but only when all the conditions are just right.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=Eugene][quote]That will not take you from Downtown San Diego to Carlsbad and back on a June day FASTER than 55 mph.[/quote]

FYI, there are already some real-life reports on its range on one charge. One guy from Oceanside reports being able to go 83 miles on one charge at 62 mph (in ‘ECO’ mode, with mild AC).

[quote]Not to mention the cost of gas versus the cost of the charging station…

To me the Prius makes far more sense…[/quote]

Accounting for the cost of gas, and assuming 10-year ownership, Prius comes out cheaper than Leaf+PV.

On the other hand, after 10 years, the Prius owner will have a 10 year old car, and the Leaf owner will have a 10 year old car and a PV system that continues to reduce his electricity bill by $1000/year for many more years.[/quote]

Maybe true but I cant get excited about that range. Especially as the life of the batteries began to fail.

I would say it makes a lot more since if you bought a new home and were already in the mindset that you were going to build a PV grid anway. Then the car would be icing on the cake but from what I have seen so far the leaf is not that impressive.

Also PV systems used to be, I don’t honestly know anymore, a huge pain in the ass to maintain. The whole PV thing is a little bit of a lifestyle kind of thing. I am not sure I like the headache of something like that.

A place like SD is very ideal for the leaf… Good battery temperature. I a place like PHX or SEATAC… Not much sense.

Again the car makes sense but only when all the conditions are just right.

CE

[Author]

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