Should I build or buy? (NC inland)

[permabear]

[quote=EconProf]Your selection is near Santaluz, which you may have already looked at. It has much lower density, is kid-friendly, and the design standards when built were exacting. Some bargains exist, but prices are edging up lately.[/quote]

I’d be curious to see what examples you have of this – I’ve seen the exact opposite. Prices continue to fall in Santaluz, which to your point is probably a good reason to consider buying a resale if we’re willing to deal with the Spanish architecture and MR/HOA’s.

[ocrenter]

there are so many homes within the 900k to 1.2 mil price range within your specification on the market. I can’t think of a good reason to buy a lot and build unless you simply enjoy the process of building a home from scratch.

[ocrenter]

there are so many homes within the 900k to 1.2 mil price range within your specification on the market. I can’t think of a good reason to buy a lot and build unless you simply enjoy the process of building a home from scratch.

[ocrenter]

there are so many homes within the 900k to 1.2 mil price range within your specification on the market. I can’t think of a good reason to buy a lot and build unless you simply enjoy the process of building a home from scratch.

[ocrenter]

there are so many homes within the 900k to 1.2 mil price range within your specification on the market. I can’t think of a good reason to buy a lot and build unless you simply enjoy the process of building a home from scratch.

[ocrenter]

there are so many homes within the 900k to 1.2 mil price range within your specification on the market. I can’t think of a good reason to buy a lot and build unless you simply enjoy the process of building a home from scratch.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear][quote=bearishgurl]
permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?[/quote]

Yes, sorry, we are definitely into mid-century modern. I probably confused things by including the link to a tract home. My point was that, in terms of size and cost, that tract home would fit the bill, BUT we are over the “design” of homes like that.

I’d seen Mercer York, very cool site. Mills Act is a good point that I had not thought of. What about the restrictions, though?

The challenge with most authentic mid-century modern homes is they tend to be in very expensive areas (La Jolla, Del Mar, etc), PLUS they command a premium, PLUS many of them are in disrepair. Pacifica in LJ/PB is the closest we’ve found, but the 5 fwy can be a bit overwhelming for many of the lots.

It’s sad because many mid-century homes have been torn down and replaced with Tuscan nonsense. For example, that Del Mar A-frame is marketed in the MLS as a teardown with 5000 sq ft Tuscan plans.[/quote]

As far as I know, permabear, the restrictions on the Mills Act is that in order to get the HUGE tax break, the owner will actually “restore” the property to its former glory within =<10 years. Which means back to the way it was when it was built. No changes in the footprint are allowed because a "room addition" would destroy the lines of the original property and the Mills Act is in place to honor Historical properties as-built. Yes, I would think that several authentic mid-century modern properties would be in disrepair at this late date. But you had stated you want to “build.” You wouldn’t have to “build” on a Mills Act property, just repair and replace, in keeping with the same item that was there to begin with (i.e. replacing a broken leaded glass window). A fully restored Mills Act property is a “labor of love” over the years.

Why not find out if the Del Mar A-frame can be restored and would be Mills Act eligible?? It’s reasonably-enough priced for the area!

If you are dead set on 3500+ sf, then this limits your mid-century modern shopping, as authentic properties of that size would be cost-prohibitive for you. I see you easily being able to restore an 1800 – 2800 sf one, though.

I feel that if you restore a mid-century modern and apply for the Mills Act when the time comes, it will hold its value no matter what the market does and give you a great property tax break which will come in very handy in retirement.

Going with an architect like Norm will cost you but no more than that “Tuscan” tract thing in your link and probably $300K to $400K less. Please look at Norm’s work on his site. He’s a rugged view, desert and hillside guy.

To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house. Then you would have to hire the architect and front him some planning fees. All in all, your architectural design and planning fees would probably be $100K to $150K (paid over about 12-18 mos), depending on how elaborate of a house you want to build. Perhaps you could pay this from your income (not sure if construction loans cover this part). You mentioned $1.1M is your price range so assuming your A/P fees come to $150K (with demo and haul away of 95% of the old structure thrown in), you are already out $350K and are making payments on a $200K mortgage (for the land) and haven’t laid your foundation yet.

$1.1M – $350K = $750K

$750K is WAY more than enough to build unless you just want a monstrous house and/or use VERY expensive building materials throughout.

After your architect’s plans are approved, you will have to get a construction loan. I would recommend getting more than you think you’ll need as you don’t have to draw it all out. It’s just going to be paid out in increments as each phase is built.

When the project is completed, you can get your $200K land loan and your construction loan wrapped into a “take-out” loan (regular 15 or 30 yr mortgage) based upon up to 80% of its appraised value, retiring the land loan and the construction loan

Sounds like a lot of time and hassle but you mentioned you don’t want to follow CA’s “boom and bust” cycles (which are sure to repeat, as they always have) with an intermittently underwater property. IMO, the only way to can do this is to have a property that does not adhere to “recent sales comps.” If your building site is good enough and “mid-century reproduction” design is splendid and unusual enough, then it will sell in any market for half or all cash. Its value finished will likely exceed $1.2M.

If you find yourself needing to sell it in the coming years, you can then market it worldwide through a major international RE broker such as Sotheby’s and capture the attention of serious interested buyers in Europe, Australia, NY and Japan, for instance.

These types of buyers are looking for very-special one-of-a-kind properties in our climate, not tract homes.

Now you have a beautiful, unusual mid-century design to live in and show off (but would NOT qualify for the Mill’s Act)!

The reason I am suggesting building your own is because there have been few authentic mid-century moderns situated in the location parameters you have given here. You would have to approach their current owners to see if they would be interested in selling.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/

click ARCHITECTURE, then neighborhood

Poway

Nourse, Mr Hal E. & Mrs Clari Residence (1963)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16205 Rostrata Hill Road

Stephens, Mr James & Mrs Dee Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16208 Orchard Bend

Site Name: Pomerado Elementary School
Architect: Paderewski, Mitchell, Dean & Associates
Year Designed/Built: 1960
Address: 12321 Ninth Street

Ramona

Weinberg Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
23427 Calistoga Place (San Diego Country Estates)

Meador Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Old Muzzey Grade

Peterson Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
24341 Sargeant Road

Rancho Santa Fe

Friedkin Residence (1964)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Via Del Valle

Marshall House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra
5303 Linea Del Cielo

Van Sicklin House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra

Thompson “Brickwood” Residence (1965)
Designed by John Lloyd Wright
15611 La Madreselva

Yates Residence (1959)
Designed by Lloyd Ruocco
Las Planideras Road

Antelline Residence (1961)
Designed by Jon P. Antelline

Jack Residence (1953)
Designed by Joe Kowalski

Ford Residence (1959)
Designed by Liebhardt & Weston

Depending on their locations (incl site elevation and views) and condition, these properties’ values could exceed your price range.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear][quote=bearishgurl]
permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?[/quote]

Yes, sorry, we are definitely into mid-century modern. I probably confused things by including the link to a tract home. My point was that, in terms of size and cost, that tract home would fit the bill, BUT we are over the “design” of homes like that.

I’d seen Mercer York, very cool site. Mills Act is a good point that I had not thought of. What about the restrictions, though?

The challenge with most authentic mid-century modern homes is they tend to be in very expensive areas (La Jolla, Del Mar, etc), PLUS they command a premium, PLUS many of them are in disrepair. Pacifica in LJ/PB is the closest we’ve found, but the 5 fwy can be a bit overwhelming for many of the lots.

It’s sad because many mid-century homes have been torn down and replaced with Tuscan nonsense. For example, that Del Mar A-frame is marketed in the MLS as a teardown with 5000 sq ft Tuscan plans.[/quote]

As far as I know, permabear, the restrictions on the Mills Act is that in order to get the HUGE tax break, the owner will actually “restore” the property to its former glory within =<10 years. Which means back to the way it was when it was built. No changes in the footprint are allowed because a "room addition" would destroy the lines of the original property and the Mills Act is in place to honor Historical properties as-built. Yes, I would think that several authentic mid-century modern properties would be in disrepair at this late date. But you had stated you want to “build.” You wouldn’t have to “build” on a Mills Act property, just repair and replace, in keeping with the same item that was there to begin with (i.e. replacing a broken leaded glass window). A fully restored Mills Act property is a “labor of love” over the years.

Why not find out if the Del Mar A-frame can be restored and would be Mills Act eligible?? It’s reasonably-enough priced for the area!

If you are dead set on 3500+ sf, then this limits your mid-century modern shopping, as authentic properties of that size would be cost-prohibitive for you. I see you easily being able to restore an 1800 – 2800 sf one, though.

I feel that if you restore a mid-century modern and apply for the Mills Act when the time comes, it will hold its value no matter what the market does and give you a great property tax break which will come in very handy in retirement.

Going with an architect like Norm will cost you but no more than that “Tuscan” tract thing in your link and probably $300K to $400K less. Please look at Norm’s work on his site. He’s a rugged view, desert and hillside guy.

To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house. Then you would have to hire the architect and front him some planning fees. All in all, your architectural design and planning fees would probably be $100K to $150K (paid over about 12-18 mos), depending on how elaborate of a house you want to build. Perhaps you could pay this from your income (not sure if construction loans cover this part). You mentioned $1.1M is your price range so assuming your A/P fees come to $150K (with demo and haul away of 95% of the old structure thrown in), you are already out $350K and are making payments on a $200K mortgage (for the land) and haven’t laid your foundation yet.

$1.1M – $350K = $750K

$750K is WAY more than enough to build unless you just want a monstrous house and/or use VERY expensive building materials throughout.

After your architect’s plans are approved, you will have to get a construction loan. I would recommend getting more than you think you’ll need as you don’t have to draw it all out. It’s just going to be paid out in increments as each phase is built.

When the project is completed, you can get your $200K land loan and your construction loan wrapped into a “take-out” loan (regular 15 or 30 yr mortgage) based upon up to 80% of its appraised value, retiring the land loan and the construction loan

Sounds like a lot of time and hassle but you mentioned you don’t want to follow CA’s “boom and bust” cycles (which are sure to repeat, as they always have) with an intermittently underwater property. IMO, the only way to can do this is to have a property that does not adhere to “recent sales comps.” If your building site is good enough and “mid-century reproduction” design is splendid and unusual enough, then it will sell in any market for half or all cash. Its value finished will likely exceed $1.2M.

If you find yourself needing to sell it in the coming years, you can then market it worldwide through a major international RE broker such as Sotheby’s and capture the attention of serious interested buyers in Europe, Australia, NY and Japan, for instance.

These types of buyers are looking for very-special one-of-a-kind properties in our climate, not tract homes.

Now you have a beautiful, unusual mid-century design to live in and show off (but would NOT qualify for the Mill’s Act)!

The reason I am suggesting building your own is because there have been few authentic mid-century moderns situated in the location parameters you have given here. You would have to approach their current owners to see if they would be interested in selling.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/

click ARCHITECTURE, then neighborhood

Poway

Nourse, Mr Hal E. & Mrs Clari Residence (1963)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16205 Rostrata Hill Road

Stephens, Mr James & Mrs Dee Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16208 Orchard Bend

Site Name: Pomerado Elementary School
Architect: Paderewski, Mitchell, Dean & Associates
Year Designed/Built: 1960
Address: 12321 Ninth Street

Ramona

Weinberg Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
23427 Calistoga Place (San Diego Country Estates)

Meador Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Old Muzzey Grade

Peterson Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
24341 Sargeant Road

Rancho Santa Fe

Friedkin Residence (1964)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Via Del Valle

Marshall House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra
5303 Linea Del Cielo

Van Sicklin House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra

Thompson “Brickwood” Residence (1965)
Designed by John Lloyd Wright
15611 La Madreselva

Yates Residence (1959)
Designed by Lloyd Ruocco
Las Planideras Road

Antelline Residence (1961)
Designed by Jon P. Antelline

Jack Residence (1953)
Designed by Joe Kowalski

Ford Residence (1959)
Designed by Liebhardt & Weston

Depending on their locations (incl site elevation and views) and condition, these properties’ values could exceed your price range.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear][quote=bearishgurl]
permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?[/quote]

Yes, sorry, we are definitely into mid-century modern. I probably confused things by including the link to a tract home. My point was that, in terms of size and cost, that tract home would fit the bill, BUT we are over the “design” of homes like that.

I’d seen Mercer York, very cool site. Mills Act is a good point that I had not thought of. What about the restrictions, though?

The challenge with most authentic mid-century modern homes is they tend to be in very expensive areas (La Jolla, Del Mar, etc), PLUS they command a premium, PLUS many of them are in disrepair. Pacifica in LJ/PB is the closest we’ve found, but the 5 fwy can be a bit overwhelming for many of the lots.

It’s sad because many mid-century homes have been torn down and replaced with Tuscan nonsense. For example, that Del Mar A-frame is marketed in the MLS as a teardown with 5000 sq ft Tuscan plans.[/quote]

As far as I know, permabear, the restrictions on the Mills Act is that in order to get the HUGE tax break, the owner will actually “restore” the property to its former glory within =<10 years. Which means back to the way it was when it was built. No changes in the footprint are allowed because a "room addition" would destroy the lines of the original property and the Mills Act is in place to honor Historical properties as-built. Yes, I would think that several authentic mid-century modern properties would be in disrepair at this late date. But you had stated you want to “build.” You wouldn’t have to “build” on a Mills Act property, just repair and replace, in keeping with the same item that was there to begin with (i.e. replacing a broken leaded glass window). A fully restored Mills Act property is a “labor of love” over the years.

Why not find out if the Del Mar A-frame can be restored and would be Mills Act eligible?? It’s reasonably-enough priced for the area!

If you are dead set on 3500+ sf, then this limits your mid-century modern shopping, as authentic properties of that size would be cost-prohibitive for you. I see you easily being able to restore an 1800 – 2800 sf one, though.

I feel that if you restore a mid-century modern and apply for the Mills Act when the time comes, it will hold its value no matter what the market does and give you a great property tax break which will come in very handy in retirement.

Going with an architect like Norm will cost you but no more than that “Tuscan” tract thing in your link and probably $300K to $400K less. Please look at Norm’s work on his site. He’s a rugged view, desert and hillside guy.

To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house. Then you would have to hire the architect and front him some planning fees. All in all, your architectural design and planning fees would probably be $100K to $150K (paid over about 12-18 mos), depending on how elaborate of a house you want to build. Perhaps you could pay this from your income (not sure if construction loans cover this part). You mentioned $1.1M is your price range so assuming your A/P fees come to $150K (with demo and haul away of 95% of the old structure thrown in), you are already out $350K and are making payments on a $200K mortgage (for the land) and haven’t laid your foundation yet.

$1.1M – $350K = $750K

$750K is WAY more than enough to build unless you just want a monstrous house and/or use VERY expensive building materials throughout.

After your architect’s plans are approved, you will have to get a construction loan. I would recommend getting more than you think you’ll need as you don’t have to draw it all out. It’s just going to be paid out in increments as each phase is built.

When the project is completed, you can get your $200K land loan and your construction loan wrapped into a “take-out” loan (regular 15 or 30 yr mortgage) based upon up to 80% of its appraised value, retiring the land loan and the construction loan

Sounds like a lot of time and hassle but you mentioned you don’t want to follow CA’s “boom and bust” cycles (which are sure to repeat, as they always have) with an intermittently underwater property. IMO, the only way to can do this is to have a property that does not adhere to “recent sales comps.” If your building site is good enough and “mid-century reproduction” design is splendid and unusual enough, then it will sell in any market for half or all cash. Its value finished will likely exceed $1.2M.

If you find yourself needing to sell it in the coming years, you can then market it worldwide through a major international RE broker such as Sotheby’s and capture the attention of serious interested buyers in Europe, Australia, NY and Japan, for instance.

These types of buyers are looking for very-special one-of-a-kind properties in our climate, not tract homes.

Now you have a beautiful, unusual mid-century design to live in and show off (but would NOT qualify for the Mill’s Act)!

The reason I am suggesting building your own is because there have been few authentic mid-century moderns situated in the location parameters you have given here. You would have to approach their current owners to see if they would be interested in selling.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/

click ARCHITECTURE, then neighborhood

Poway

Nourse, Mr Hal E. & Mrs Clari Residence (1963)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16205 Rostrata Hill Road

Stephens, Mr James & Mrs Dee Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16208 Orchard Bend

Site Name: Pomerado Elementary School
Architect: Paderewski, Mitchell, Dean & Associates
Year Designed/Built: 1960
Address: 12321 Ninth Street

Ramona

Weinberg Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
23427 Calistoga Place (San Diego Country Estates)

Meador Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Old Muzzey Grade

Peterson Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
24341 Sargeant Road

Rancho Santa Fe

Friedkin Residence (1964)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Via Del Valle

Marshall House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra
5303 Linea Del Cielo

Van Sicklin House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra

Thompson “Brickwood” Residence (1965)
Designed by John Lloyd Wright
15611 La Madreselva

Yates Residence (1959)
Designed by Lloyd Ruocco
Las Planideras Road

Antelline Residence (1961)
Designed by Jon P. Antelline

Jack Residence (1953)
Designed by Joe Kowalski

Ford Residence (1959)
Designed by Liebhardt & Weston

Depending on their locations (incl site elevation and views) and condition, these properties’ values could exceed your price range.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear][quote=bearishgurl]
permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?[/quote]

Yes, sorry, we are definitely into mid-century modern. I probably confused things by including the link to a tract home. My point was that, in terms of size and cost, that tract home would fit the bill, BUT we are over the “design” of homes like that.

I’d seen Mercer York, very cool site. Mills Act is a good point that I had not thought of. What about the restrictions, though?

The challenge with most authentic mid-century modern homes is they tend to be in very expensive areas (La Jolla, Del Mar, etc), PLUS they command a premium, PLUS many of them are in disrepair. Pacifica in LJ/PB is the closest we’ve found, but the 5 fwy can be a bit overwhelming for many of the lots.

It’s sad because many mid-century homes have been torn down and replaced with Tuscan nonsense. For example, that Del Mar A-frame is marketed in the MLS as a teardown with 5000 sq ft Tuscan plans.[/quote]

As far as I know, permabear, the restrictions on the Mills Act is that in order to get the HUGE tax break, the owner will actually “restore” the property to its former glory within =<10 years. Which means back to the way it was when it was built. No changes in the footprint are allowed because a "room addition" would destroy the lines of the original property and the Mills Act is in place to honor Historical properties as-built. Yes, I would think that several authentic mid-century modern properties would be in disrepair at this late date. But you had stated you want to “build.” You wouldn’t have to “build” on a Mills Act property, just repair and replace, in keeping with the same item that was there to begin with (i.e. replacing a broken leaded glass window). A fully restored Mills Act property is a “labor of love” over the years.

Why not find out if the Del Mar A-frame can be restored and would be Mills Act eligible?? It’s reasonably-enough priced for the area!

If you are dead set on 3500+ sf, then this limits your mid-century modern shopping, as authentic properties of that size would be cost-prohibitive for you. I see you easily being able to restore an 1800 – 2800 sf one, though.

I feel that if you restore a mid-century modern and apply for the Mills Act when the time comes, it will hold its value no matter what the market does and give you a great property tax break which will come in very handy in retirement.

Going with an architect like Norm will cost you but no more than that “Tuscan” tract thing in your link and probably $300K to $400K less. Please look at Norm’s work on his site. He’s a rugged view, desert and hillside guy.

To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house. Then you would have to hire the architect and front him some planning fees. All in all, your architectural design and planning fees would probably be $100K to $150K (paid over about 12-18 mos), depending on how elaborate of a house you want to build. Perhaps you could pay this from your income (not sure if construction loans cover this part). You mentioned $1.1M is your price range so assuming your A/P fees come to $150K (with demo and haul away of 95% of the old structure thrown in), you are already out $350K and are making payments on a $200K mortgage (for the land) and haven’t laid your foundation yet.

$1.1M – $350K = $750K

$750K is WAY more than enough to build unless you just want a monstrous house and/or use VERY expensive building materials throughout.

After your architect’s plans are approved, you will have to get a construction loan. I would recommend getting more than you think you’ll need as you don’t have to draw it all out. It’s just going to be paid out in increments as each phase is built.

When the project is completed, you can get your $200K land loan and your construction loan wrapped into a “take-out” loan (regular 15 or 30 yr mortgage) based upon up to 80% of its appraised value, retiring the land loan and the construction loan

Sounds like a lot of time and hassle but you mentioned you don’t want to follow CA’s “boom and bust” cycles (which are sure to repeat, as they always have) with an intermittently underwater property. IMO, the only way to can do this is to have a property that does not adhere to “recent sales comps.” If your building site is good enough and “mid-century reproduction” design is splendid and unusual enough, then it will sell in any market for half or all cash. Its value finished will likely exceed $1.2M.

If you find yourself needing to sell it in the coming years, you can then market it worldwide through a major international RE broker such as Sotheby’s and capture the attention of serious interested buyers in Europe, Australia, NY and Japan, for instance.

These types of buyers are looking for very-special one-of-a-kind properties in our climate, not tract homes.

Now you have a beautiful, unusual mid-century design to live in and show off (but would NOT qualify for the Mill’s Act)!

The reason I am suggesting building your own is because there have been few authentic mid-century moderns situated in the location parameters you have given here. You would have to approach their current owners to see if they would be interested in selling.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/

click ARCHITECTURE, then neighborhood

Poway

Nourse, Mr Hal E. & Mrs Clari Residence (1963)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16205 Rostrata Hill Road

Stephens, Mr James & Mrs Dee Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16208 Orchard Bend

Site Name: Pomerado Elementary School
Architect: Paderewski, Mitchell, Dean & Associates
Year Designed/Built: 1960
Address: 12321 Ninth Street

Ramona

Weinberg Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
23427 Calistoga Place (San Diego Country Estates)

Meador Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Old Muzzey Grade

Peterson Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
24341 Sargeant Road

Rancho Santa Fe

Friedkin Residence (1964)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Via Del Valle

Marshall House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra
5303 Linea Del Cielo

Van Sicklin House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra

Thompson “Brickwood” Residence (1965)
Designed by John Lloyd Wright
15611 La Madreselva

Yates Residence (1959)
Designed by Lloyd Ruocco
Las Planideras Road

Antelline Residence (1961)
Designed by Jon P. Antelline

Jack Residence (1953)
Designed by Joe Kowalski

Ford Residence (1959)
Designed by Liebhardt & Weston

Depending on their locations (incl site elevation and views) and condition, these properties’ values could exceed your price range.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=permabear][quote=bearishgurl]
permabear, your link (above) depicts a large contemporary (tract?) home with “Tuscan” or “Spanish” touches such as the large front entrance facade.

Is this what you consider of “modern” design or is what you REALLY want a “mid-century modern” but cannot find what you are looking for in the listings?[/quote]

Yes, sorry, we are definitely into mid-century modern. I probably confused things by including the link to a tract home. My point was that, in terms of size and cost, that tract home would fit the bill, BUT we are over the “design” of homes like that.

I’d seen Mercer York, very cool site. Mills Act is a good point that I had not thought of. What about the restrictions, though?

The challenge with most authentic mid-century modern homes is they tend to be in very expensive areas (La Jolla, Del Mar, etc), PLUS they command a premium, PLUS many of them are in disrepair. Pacifica in LJ/PB is the closest we’ve found, but the 5 fwy can be a bit overwhelming for many of the lots.

It’s sad because many mid-century homes have been torn down and replaced with Tuscan nonsense. For example, that Del Mar A-frame is marketed in the MLS as a teardown with 5000 sq ft Tuscan plans.[/quote]

As far as I know, permabear, the restrictions on the Mills Act is that in order to get the HUGE tax break, the owner will actually “restore” the property to its former glory within =<10 years. Which means back to the way it was when it was built. No changes in the footprint are allowed because a "room addition" would destroy the lines of the original property and the Mills Act is in place to honor Historical properties as-built. Yes, I would think that several authentic mid-century modern properties would be in disrepair at this late date. But you had stated you want to “build.” You wouldn’t have to “build” on a Mills Act property, just repair and replace, in keeping with the same item that was there to begin with (i.e. replacing a broken leaded glass window). A fully restored Mills Act property is a “labor of love” over the years.

Why not find out if the Del Mar A-frame can be restored and would be Mills Act eligible?? It’s reasonably-enough priced for the area!

If you are dead set on 3500+ sf, then this limits your mid-century modern shopping, as authentic properties of that size would be cost-prohibitive for you. I see you easily being able to restore an 1800 – 2800 sf one, though.

I feel that if you restore a mid-century modern and apply for the Mills Act when the time comes, it will hold its value no matter what the market does and give you a great property tax break which will come in very handy in retirement.

Going with an architect like Norm will cost you but no more than that “Tuscan” tract thing in your link and probably $300K to $400K less. Please look at Norm’s work on his site. He’s a rugged view, desert and hillside guy.

To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house. Then you would have to hire the architect and front him some planning fees. All in all, your architectural design and planning fees would probably be $100K to $150K (paid over about 12-18 mos), depending on how elaborate of a house you want to build. Perhaps you could pay this from your income (not sure if construction loans cover this part). You mentioned $1.1M is your price range so assuming your A/P fees come to $150K (with demo and haul away of 95% of the old structure thrown in), you are already out $350K and are making payments on a $200K mortgage (for the land) and haven’t laid your foundation yet.

$1.1M – $350K = $750K

$750K is WAY more than enough to build unless you just want a monstrous house and/or use VERY expensive building materials throughout.

After your architect’s plans are approved, you will have to get a construction loan. I would recommend getting more than you think you’ll need as you don’t have to draw it all out. It’s just going to be paid out in increments as each phase is built.

When the project is completed, you can get your $200K land loan and your construction loan wrapped into a “take-out” loan (regular 15 or 30 yr mortgage) based upon up to 80% of its appraised value, retiring the land loan and the construction loan

Sounds like a lot of time and hassle but you mentioned you don’t want to follow CA’s “boom and bust” cycles (which are sure to repeat, as they always have) with an intermittently underwater property. IMO, the only way to can do this is to have a property that does not adhere to “recent sales comps.” If your building site is good enough and “mid-century reproduction” design is splendid and unusual enough, then it will sell in any market for half or all cash. Its value finished will likely exceed $1.2M.

If you find yourself needing to sell it in the coming years, you can then market it worldwide through a major international RE broker such as Sotheby’s and capture the attention of serious interested buyers in Europe, Australia, NY and Japan, for instance.

These types of buyers are looking for very-special one-of-a-kind properties in our climate, not tract homes.

Now you have a beautiful, unusual mid-century design to live in and show off (but would NOT qualify for the Mill’s Act)!

The reason I am suggesting building your own is because there have been few authentic mid-century moderns situated in the location parameters you have given here. You would have to approach their current owners to see if they would be interested in selling.

See: http://www.modernsandiego.com/

click ARCHITECTURE, then neighborhood

Poway

Nourse, Mr Hal E. & Mrs Clari Residence (1963)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16205 Rostrata Hill Road

Stephens, Mr James & Mrs Dee Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
16208 Orchard Bend

Site Name: Pomerado Elementary School
Architect: Paderewski, Mitchell, Dean & Associates
Year Designed/Built: 1960
Address: 12321 Ninth Street

Ramona

Weinberg Residence (1978)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
23427 Calistoga Place (San Diego Country Estates)

Meador Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Old Muzzey Grade

Peterson Residence (1973)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
24341 Sargeant Road

Rancho Santa Fe

Friedkin Residence (1964)
Designed by Sim Bruce Richards
Via Del Valle

Marshall House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra
5303 Linea Del Cielo

Van Sicklin House (1952)
Designed by Richard J. Neutra

Thompson “Brickwood” Residence (1965)
Designed by John Lloyd Wright
15611 La Madreselva

Yates Residence (1959)
Designed by Lloyd Ruocco
Las Planideras Road

Antelline Residence (1961)
Designed by Jon P. Antelline

Jack Residence (1953)
Designed by Joe Kowalski

Ford Residence (1959)
Designed by Liebhardt & Weston

Depending on their locations (incl site elevation and views) and condition, these properties’ values could exceed your price range.

[permabear]

Thanks for the extensive replies, bearishgurl

[quote=bearishgurl]To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house.[/quote]

This is where I have gotten stuck so far. When looking all across San Diego, the only places with low-priced teardowns are neighborhoods that would not support a full rebuild. If you try to get a teardown in some place like Del Mar or North Poway or Scripps, you end up getting a completely decrepit house for 10% off what a completely remodeled “move-in ready” home goes for.

Case in point, this Del Mar home is an absolute gut job (been in it twice):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15030-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444174

Whereas this one across the street was nicely maintained (not my style, but still):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15029-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444027

So, < $150k difference, which doesn't even cover the architect/permit fees. If you're aware of a nice area with reasonable teardowns, I'm all ears. The only place I've remotely found is Green Valley in Poway, and even then it's more expensive than building from scratch (even with the "fresh build premium").

[permabear]

Thanks for the extensive replies, bearishgurl

[quote=bearishgurl]To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house.[/quote]

This is where I have gotten stuck so far. When looking all across San Diego, the only places with low-priced teardowns are neighborhoods that would not support a full rebuild. If you try to get a teardown in some place like Del Mar or North Poway or Scripps, you end up getting a completely decrepit house for 10% off what a completely remodeled “move-in ready” home goes for.

Case in point, this Del Mar home is an absolute gut job (been in it twice):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15030-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444174

Whereas this one across the street was nicely maintained (not my style, but still):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15029-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444027

So, < $150k difference, which doesn't even cover the architect/permit fees. If you're aware of a nice area with reasonable teardowns, I'm all ears. The only place I've remotely found is Green Valley in Poway, and even then it's more expensive than building from scratch (even with the "fresh build premium").

[permabear]

Thanks for the extensive replies, bearishgurl

[quote=bearishgurl]To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house.[/quote]

This is where I have gotten stuck so far. When looking all across San Diego, the only places with low-priced teardowns are neighborhoods that would not support a full rebuild. If you try to get a teardown in some place like Del Mar or North Poway or Scripps, you end up getting a completely decrepit house for 10% off what a completely remodeled “move-in ready” home goes for.

Case in point, this Del Mar home is an absolute gut job (been in it twice):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15030-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444174

Whereas this one across the street was nicely maintained (not my style, but still):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15029-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444027

So, < $150k difference, which doesn't even cover the architect/permit fees. If you're aware of a nice area with reasonable teardowns, I'm all ears. The only place I've remotely found is Green Valley in Poway, and even then it's more expensive than building from scratch (even with the "fresh build premium").

[permabear]

Thanks for the extensive replies, bearishgurl

[quote=bearishgurl]To do it you will need to come up with a lot with a teardown on it (to have utils at the ready and avoid the “new construction premium” of $27K to $35K), the total of the bureaucrats’ “nickel and diming which amounts to the “ultimate white paper fee.” Your lender will most likely want you to put down 30-50% on the teardown lot because the dwelling on it may or may not be immediately habitable. Just the acquisition of the lot may take all the $$ you were going to use for a downpayment on a resale house.[/quote]

This is where I have gotten stuck so far. When looking all across San Diego, the only places with low-priced teardowns are neighborhoods that would not support a full rebuild. If you try to get a teardown in some place like Del Mar or North Poway or Scripps, you end up getting a completely decrepit house for 10% off what a completely remodeled “move-in ready” home goes for.

Case in point, this Del Mar home is an absolute gut job (been in it twice):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15030-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444174

Whereas this one across the street was nicely maintained (not my style, but still):

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Del-Mar/15029-Rancho-Real-92014/home/4444027

So, < $150k difference, which doesn't even cover the architect/permit fees. If you're aware of a nice area with reasonable teardowns, I'm all ears. The only place I've remotely found is Green Valley in Poway, and even then it's more expensive than building from scratch (even with the "fresh build premium").

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