Short Sale Realtor in collusion with buyer, is it legal.

[CA renter]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CA renter]

If the taxpayers are responsible for propping up the banks, you’d better believe this is unethical, and it should be illegal. This is defrauding the U.S. government/taxpayers.

If the lenders were personally taking the hit, I wouldn’t care one bit, but if the taxpayers are on the hook, this needs to be fought tooth and nail.

BTW, a lot of these deals go through because the agent lists the house as contingent the moment it hits the MLS. That is BS![/quote]

Dude, we have tangled about this before.
I take my agency relationship very seriously.
The banks have very clear requirements for short sales and I abide by them.
They generally do not want multiple offers in hand.
They want a single package.
So if a seller accepts an offer, they are required to stay with that offer unless the bank denies it.
To do otherwise would be illegal.
To switch buyers after accepting an offer is not allowed.
If I somehow caused a seller to do that, I could lose my license.

The real issue here is that the government should require
A: a speedy short sale review process
and
B: minimum market time and acceptance rules.

That would make short sales function more like regular deals and thus would remove a lot of the hurdles to completing them. They would function more within market fundamentals than they do now (and thus probably be more expensive).

But please remember that a lot of what you are complaining about is just a normal function of markets.

Logical framework:

1: Short sale properties are relatively less desirable than other properties.
2: To make up for this lack of desirability, sellers lower the price.
3: Low prices tend to attract more buyers more quickly.

Real life example:

I took a listing on Saturday.
I recommended a price point that was consistent with similar properties that were short sales in the neighborhood that closed in the last 6 months.
The seller concurred and priced it at $250,000
I received an offer yesterday midday.
If the seller accepts it, we will mark it contingent today.
At that point, we will be committed to the buyer, barring some curve ball.

Please tell me where you see the illegality or dishonesty here.

As with most of your conspiratorial rants, this one too will turn out to be nothing more than ignorant whiny nonsense.

I am a general fan of skepticism (maybe that is a contradiction) but being an uninformed conspiracy nut is just as bad as being a dumb dittohead follower.[/quote]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.

[CA renter]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.[/quote]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.

Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.

As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.

[CA renter]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.[/quote]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.

Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.

As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.

[CA renter]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.[/quote]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.

Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.

As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.

[CA renter]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.[/quote]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.

Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.

As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.

[CA renter]

[quote=urbanrealtor][quote=CA renter]

I don’t care if the house was properly listed and got an offer from an unrelated buyer. I DO care if the deal was made before the house hit the MLS/market, and it’s particularly unethical if the deal was made between related parties (including anyone related in any way to the agents involved).

Yes, if banks/regulators required a minimum marketing time, that would be of great help. It would also help if they did periodic audits to ensure agents weren’t ripping them (and the taxpayers) off.

BTW, not sure where you got the “uninformed conspiracy nut” part, but most of my predictions made many years ago have been spot-on from the very beginning. I might be a lot of things, but “uninformed” isn’t one of them, particularly about things I’m willing to debate about (you’ll never hear me argue about things I’m “uninformed” about…I listen and learn from those who know more, rather than debate and make myself look like an idiot). Perhaps you shouldn’t trust so easily.[/quote]

Very few people who know me would describe me as “trusting”.
You have a very incomplete idea about how these things go.
One of my agents had a client who liked a condo but was beat out by a higher offer.
The agent then reached out to the other units/owners in the complex to see if they wanted to sell to her client.
The unit that responded and with which they made a deal was upside down.
They had a deal before the unit ever hit the MLS.
When they put it in the MLS, this was disclosed.
It was appropriate to put this in the MLS for comparative purposes.
There was no fraud.
There was no conspiracy.
The bank did not get screwed.
CAR, you don’t bring a lot to the table as a general rule.
You rant about “fraud” (apparently defined as any result you don’t endorse or understand) and call Realtors crooks.
Fraud has a very specific meaning.
It means a lie that damages another.
I don’t have a great love for most of my colleagues (many ARE crooks) but unless you have some actual examples of fraud please stop wasting pixels.

I do pretty well without lying to anybody.

I think your incomplete understandings coupled with your declarations of moral turpitude put you about one step up from 911 truthers.
You are woefully ignorant and uninformed.
You are the kind of guy that is too smart by half and gets rolled by a dishonest agent and then brags about the deal he got.[/quote]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.

Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.

As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.
[/quote]
Again, fraud has a specific meaning and without a lie or a damaged party, there is, by definition, no fraud.
[quote=CA renter]
Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.
[/quote]
Making an offer to a seller is, by definition, an open market transaction.
The buyer defines the market as much as the seller.
Putting it on the MLS does not make it more open market.
There is no defrauding going on here.

[quote=CA renter]
As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.[/quote]
You don’t have facts and you really seem to not understand how a market works in logical terms.
You have complaints that markets don’t function in a way that you see as ideal and that asymmetric information (which is rampant in all markets) comes into play at times.
I was not aware that you could hear my screaming or foot stomping but perhaps that is as real to you as the “fraud” you complain about.
You have, on a consistent basis complained about “major fraud”, “rampant fraud”, or “kermit the fraud”.
If you cannot specifically identify fraud and just see it everywhere then you are vulnerable to being injured by it.
Basically a point (or pointing finger) in every direction is the same as no direction.
I do not doubt that you have good understanding and insights into some topics (I know not what) but real estate is certainly not one of those fields.
I sincerely recommend that you employ reputable and vexatious representation if you ever decide to buy or that you just avoid buying altogether.
While cheap shots are fun, I do not wish for another sucker to be added to the list.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.
[/quote]
Again, fraud has a specific meaning and without a lie or a damaged party, there is, by definition, no fraud.
[quote=CA renter]
Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.
[/quote]
Making an offer to a seller is, by definition, an open market transaction.
The buyer defines the market as much as the seller.
Putting it on the MLS does not make it more open market.
There is no defrauding going on here.

[quote=CA renter]
As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.[/quote]
You don’t have facts and you really seem to not understand how a market works in logical terms.
You have complaints that markets don’t function in a way that you see as ideal and that asymmetric information (which is rampant in all markets) comes into play at times.
I was not aware that you could hear my screaming or foot stomping but perhaps that is as real to you as the “fraud” you complain about.
You have, on a consistent basis complained about “major fraud”, “rampant fraud”, or “kermit the fraud”.
If you cannot specifically identify fraud and just see it everywhere then you are vulnerable to being injured by it.
Basically a point (or pointing finger) in every direction is the same as no direction.
I do not doubt that you have good understanding and insights into some topics (I know not what) but real estate is certainly not one of those fields.
I sincerely recommend that you employ reputable and vexatious representation if you ever decide to buy or that you just avoid buying altogether.
While cheap shots are fun, I do not wish for another sucker to be added to the list.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.
[/quote]
Again, fraud has a specific meaning and without a lie or a damaged party, there is, by definition, no fraud.
[quote=CA renter]
Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.
[/quote]
Making an offer to a seller is, by definition, an open market transaction.
The buyer defines the market as much as the seller.
Putting it on the MLS does not make it more open market.
There is no defrauding going on here.

[quote=CA renter]
As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.[/quote]
You don’t have facts and you really seem to not understand how a market works in logical terms.
You have complaints that markets don’t function in a way that you see as ideal and that asymmetric information (which is rampant in all markets) comes into play at times.
I was not aware that you could hear my screaming or foot stomping but perhaps that is as real to you as the “fraud” you complain about.
You have, on a consistent basis complained about “major fraud”, “rampant fraud”, or “kermit the fraud”.
If you cannot specifically identify fraud and just see it everywhere then you are vulnerable to being injured by it.
Basically a point (or pointing finger) in every direction is the same as no direction.
I do not doubt that you have good understanding and insights into some topics (I know not what) but real estate is certainly not one of those fields.
I sincerely recommend that you employ reputable and vexatious representation if you ever decide to buy or that you just avoid buying altogether.
While cheap shots are fun, I do not wish for another sucker to be added to the list.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=CA renter]

You’re making the assumption that just because your deals *might not* be fraudulent, that none of them are. I know for a fact that short sale fraud is rampant, and have seen a few examples, personally, in addition to reading about others.
[/quote]
Again, fraud has a specific meaning and without a lie or a damaged party, there is, by definition, no fraud.
[quote=CA renter]
Even in the example you give regarding the condo; if the short seller or agent claimed that the deal was an open-market and arms-length transaction, that would be a lie. If they sold the condo for less than it would have gotten on the open market with adequate market time (at least two weeks), then they defrauded the bank, and probably defrauded the govt/taxpayers/mortgage insurers as a result.
[/quote]
Making an offer to a seller is, by definition, an open market transaction.
The buyer defines the market as much as the seller.
Putting it on the MLS does not make it more open market.
There is no defrauding going on here.

[quote=CA renter]
As for the party who brings more to the site, I think we can examine our past posts to see who has brought different perspectives, knowledge, and experience (about a variety of topics) vs. who has simply name-called and cursed his way into intimidating other posters. I have no idea why you think your posts are valuable. Most of the time, you just stomp your feet, scream, shout, cuss, and make personal digs at people. At least I come armed with facts and well-reasoned opinions, and always do my best to debate topics rather than make personal attacks just because somebody doesn’t agree with me.[/quote]
You don’t have facts and you really seem to not understand how a market works in logical terms.
You have complaints that markets don’t function in a way that you see as ideal and that asymmetric information (which is rampant in all markets) comes into play at times.
I was not aware that you could hear my screaming or foot stomping but perhaps that is as real to you as the “fraud” you complain about.
You have, on a consistent basis complained about “major fraud”, “rampant fraud”, or “kermit the fraud”.
If you cannot specifically identify fraud and just see it everywhere then you are vulnerable to being injured by it.
Basically a point (or pointing finger) in every direction is the same as no direction.
I do not doubt that you have good understanding and insights into some topics (I know not what) but real estate is certainly not one of those fields.
I sincerely recommend that you employ reputable and vexatious representation if you ever decide to buy or that you just avoid buying altogether.
While cheap shots are fun, I do not wish for another sucker to be added to the list.

[Author]

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