Reminder: Your massive property taxes are due

[meadandale]

[quote=captcha][quote=CA renter][quote=captcha][quote=meadandale]
My neighbor, who is in his 80’s, bought his house when it was brand new….in 1954. He paid $10k for it.

Would it be fair for him to pay over $4k/year (what I pay)…or almost half the price he paid for the house, every year in property taxes? Does that make sense?

He’s living on a fixed income. I can guarantee that he does not have the money to pay that property tax bill. Should we just kick him out of the house?

Spending in this state has exceeded population growth and inflation in every way imaginable. There is NO revenue problem in CA…there is a SPENDING problem.[/quote]

Your neighbor uses the communal facilities the same way your other neighbor who bought last year does. Yet the new neighbor could be contributing many times more.

If the goal is to lessen the cost for the low income people then the criterion needs to be the income, not the purchase date.[/quote]

Not necessarily. Most of the Prop 13 money goes to schools (53% of it in 2006-2007…don’t have more current info). Unless granny is still sending her kids to school, it’s much more likely the new family is using a greater portion of the Prop 13 money.

———————–

The property tax raised more than $43.2 billion for local government during 2006-07. These funds were allocated as follows: counties 17 percent, cities 11 percent, schools (school districts and community colleges) 53 percent, and special districts 19 percent.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/pub29.pdf%5B/quote%5D

The issue of uneven consumption is different issue. There are young people with no kids, older people with aged-out kids, people with kids, but no need for other services, like lifeguards, libraries or dog beaches.

If we want to factor in the consumption the property tax formula should include the number of school-age residents, proximity to the local beach, miles driven and vehicle tonnage and few other things.

It just feels like another instance of group of people offloading the cost onto another group of people just because they can. The first group still has the same level of access to the communal facilities as the second group.[/quote]

I have a small house (1100 sq ft) am single and have no kids and pay north of $4k/year in property taxes. Are you saying that I should be paying even more money in property taxes to educate other peoples kids?

I think that I pay more than my fair share…and this doesn’t even include the tens of thousands I pay in state and federal income taxes.

[all]

[quote=meadandale]
I have a small house (1100 sq ft) am single and have no kids and pay north of $4k/year in property taxes. Are you saying that I should be paying even more money in property taxes to educate other peoples kids?

I think that I pay more than my fair share…and this doesn’t even include the tens of thousands I pay in state and federal income taxes.[/quote]

Au contraire, your neighbor should be paying as much as you do, assuming his house is similarly valued. With Brian’s zero-sum formula you would likely be paying less. You should not be paying for your neighbor just because you purchased your house years later. He might be a nice, old guy on fixed income, but his inability to afford higher payment should be addressed directly, not through a proxy.

[all]

[quote=meadandale]
I have a small house (1100 sq ft) am single and have no kids and pay north of $4k/year in property taxes. Are you saying that I should be paying even more money in property taxes to educate other peoples kids?

I think that I pay more than my fair share…and this doesn’t even include the tens of thousands I pay in state and federal income taxes.[/quote]

Au contraire, your neighbor should be paying as much as you do, assuming his house is similarly valued. With Brian’s zero-sum formula you would likely be paying less. You should not be paying for your neighbor just because you purchased your house years later. He might be a nice, old guy on fixed income, but his inability to afford higher payment should be addressed directly, not through a proxy.

[all]

[quote=meadandale]
I have a small house (1100 sq ft) am single and have no kids and pay north of $4k/year in property taxes. Are you saying that I should be paying even more money in property taxes to educate other peoples kids?

I think that I pay more than my fair share…and this doesn’t even include the tens of thousands I pay in state and federal income taxes.[/quote]

Au contraire, your neighbor should be paying as much as you do, assuming his house is similarly valued. With Brian’s zero-sum formula you would likely be paying less. You should not be paying for your neighbor just because you purchased your house years later. He might be a nice, old guy on fixed income, but his inability to afford higher payment should be addressed directly, not through a proxy.

[all]

[quote=meadandale]
I have a small house (1100 sq ft) am single and have no kids and pay north of $4k/year in property taxes. Are you saying that I should be paying even more money in property taxes to educate other peoples kids?

I think that I pay more than my fair share…and this doesn’t even include the tens of thousands I pay in state and federal income taxes.[/quote]

Au contraire, your neighbor should be paying as much as you do, assuming his house is similarly valued. With Brian’s zero-sum formula you would likely be paying less. You should not be paying for your neighbor just because you purchased your house years later. He might be a nice, old guy on fixed income, but his inability to afford higher payment should be addressed directly, not through a proxy.

[all]

[quote=meadandale]
I have a small house (1100 sq ft) am single and have no kids and pay north of $4k/year in property taxes. Are you saying that I should be paying even more money in property taxes to educate other peoples kids?

I think that I pay more than my fair share…and this doesn’t even include the tens of thousands I pay in state and federal income taxes.[/quote]

Au contraire, your neighbor should be paying as much as you do, assuming his house is similarly valued. With Brian’s zero-sum formula you would likely be paying less. You should not be paying for your neighbor just because you purchased your house years later. He might be a nice, old guy on fixed income, but his inability to afford higher payment should be addressed directly, not through a proxy.

[EconProf]

As usual when discussing taxes, lots of strong opinions pop up. A few observations:
1. Renters DO pay property taxes, they just pay indirectly through their rent. Landlords’ costs include them and, over time, increases or decreases in property taxes will be reflected in rent levels.
2. A fair criticism of Prop 13 is how it limited increases to 2% per year for people who did not sell. This was more relevant during periods of rapid house price gains; less of a factor now. Besides, how common is that rare bird who has not moved since 1978?
3. The property tax is the closest we have to a wealth tax, although the correlation is pretty weak. The other two major categories tax consumption and income. I’d argue we need all three to some degree. A tax that depends on the value of one’s property is somewhat justified by the fact that that owner benefits from the local police, fire, streets, etc. and that benefit is greater the more valuable the property.

[EconProf]

As usual when discussing taxes, lots of strong opinions pop up. A few observations:
1. Renters DO pay property taxes, they just pay indirectly through their rent. Landlords’ costs include them and, over time, increases or decreases in property taxes will be reflected in rent levels.
2. A fair criticism of Prop 13 is how it limited increases to 2% per year for people who did not sell. This was more relevant during periods of rapid house price gains; less of a factor now. Besides, how common is that rare bird who has not moved since 1978?
3. The property tax is the closest we have to a wealth tax, although the correlation is pretty weak. The other two major categories tax consumption and income. I’d argue we need all three to some degree. A tax that depends on the value of one’s property is somewhat justified by the fact that that owner benefits from the local police, fire, streets, etc. and that benefit is greater the more valuable the property.

[EconProf]

As usual when discussing taxes, lots of strong opinions pop up. A few observations:
1. Renters DO pay property taxes, they just pay indirectly through their rent. Landlords’ costs include them and, over time, increases or decreases in property taxes will be reflected in rent levels.
2. A fair criticism of Prop 13 is how it limited increases to 2% per year for people who did not sell. This was more relevant during periods of rapid house price gains; less of a factor now. Besides, how common is that rare bird who has not moved since 1978?
3. The property tax is the closest we have to a wealth tax, although the correlation is pretty weak. The other two major categories tax consumption and income. I’d argue we need all three to some degree. A tax that depends on the value of one’s property is somewhat justified by the fact that that owner benefits from the local police, fire, streets, etc. and that benefit is greater the more valuable the property.

[EconProf]

As usual when discussing taxes, lots of strong opinions pop up. A few observations:
1. Renters DO pay property taxes, they just pay indirectly through their rent. Landlords’ costs include them and, over time, increases or decreases in property taxes will be reflected in rent levels.
2. A fair criticism of Prop 13 is how it limited increases to 2% per year for people who did not sell. This was more relevant during periods of rapid house price gains; less of a factor now. Besides, how common is that rare bird who has not moved since 1978?
3. The property tax is the closest we have to a wealth tax, although the correlation is pretty weak. The other two major categories tax consumption and income. I’d argue we need all three to some degree. A tax that depends on the value of one’s property is somewhat justified by the fact that that owner benefits from the local police, fire, streets, etc. and that benefit is greater the more valuable the property.

[EconProf]

As usual when discussing taxes, lots of strong opinions pop up. A few observations:
1. Renters DO pay property taxes, they just pay indirectly through their rent. Landlords’ costs include them and, over time, increases or decreases in property taxes will be reflected in rent levels.
2. A fair criticism of Prop 13 is how it limited increases to 2% per year for people who did not sell. This was more relevant during periods of rapid house price gains; less of a factor now. Besides, how common is that rare bird who has not moved since 1978?
3. The property tax is the closest we have to a wealth tax, although the correlation is pretty weak. The other two major categories tax consumption and income. I’d argue we need all three to some degree. A tax that depends on the value of one’s property is somewhat justified by the fact that that owner benefits from the local police, fire, streets, etc. and that benefit is greater the more valuable the property.

[CA renter]

Again, people **choose** to pay higher property taxes than their neighbors when they **choose** to pay more for the house. It is completely voluntary.

Take into consideration full PITI payments, and then decide if you’re willing to buy at that price. What your neighbor is paying is irrelevant. If you don’t want to pay higher taxes, you need to refuse to pay more for the house. If everyone did this, there would be very little discrepancy.

Again, we have a SPENDING problem, not a revenue problem. We need to take care of that problem well before we start asking people to pay higher property taxes.

[CA renter]

Again, people **choose** to pay higher property taxes than their neighbors when they **choose** to pay more for the house. It is completely voluntary.

Take into consideration full PITI payments, and then decide if you’re willing to buy at that price. What your neighbor is paying is irrelevant. If you don’t want to pay higher taxes, you need to refuse to pay more for the house. If everyone did this, there would be very little discrepancy.

Again, we have a SPENDING problem, not a revenue problem. We need to take care of that problem well before we start asking people to pay higher property taxes.

[CA renter]

Again, people **choose** to pay higher property taxes than their neighbors when they **choose** to pay more for the house. It is completely voluntary.

Take into consideration full PITI payments, and then decide if you’re willing to buy at that price. What your neighbor is paying is irrelevant. If you don’t want to pay higher taxes, you need to refuse to pay more for the house. If everyone did this, there would be very little discrepancy.

Again, we have a SPENDING problem, not a revenue problem. We need to take care of that problem well before we start asking people to pay higher property taxes.

[CA renter]

Again, people **choose** to pay higher property taxes than their neighbors when they **choose** to pay more for the house. It is completely voluntary.

Take into consideration full PITI payments, and then decide if you’re willing to buy at that price. What your neighbor is paying is irrelevant. If you don’t want to pay higher taxes, you need to refuse to pay more for the house. If everyone did this, there would be very little discrepancy.

Again, we have a SPENDING problem, not a revenue problem. We need to take care of that problem well before we start asking people to pay higher property taxes.

[Author]

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