RE Ethics question

[dori]

Ethics Question:
I’m in the market to buy a house in Bay Park for my mother and, in pursuit of being an educated buyer, I’ve been a Piggington lurker for a few months. I’d like to describe something that happened yesterday to get an ethical reading on it.

A couple of weeks ago I put a bid on a house but we were the low bidder.

Yesterday, the house reappeared on SDLookup so I called the listing agent. That’s when I learned that my agent, who did not notify me that the house had fallen out of escrow, had put in a bid for a different client. I called the agent’s broker, who seemed interested but not surprised. (I promptly found a new agent with a different broker.) I’ve heard that my ex-agent is a high producer so I’m skeptical that anything will be done.
When I later checked the daily automatic email list provided by my ex-agent, this house was imbedded in the list so I could have discovered it that way.

– Was my agent supposed to notify me or were my expectations too high?
– Is the automatic email list considered sufficient notification?
– Does this violate any real estate code or practice?

P.S. After seeing the house again with my new agent, we decided against putting another bid on this house. So, I wasn’t actually harmed this time.

Thanks.

[urbanrealtor]

I just re-read the below post and I don’t want to come off as an apologist for cheesy agents. I really am trying to explain some of the ethical considerations that go into doing business as an agent. I will start with this: In a market where buyers’ agents are only paid upon closing, it is necessary to work with multiple buyers at any given time. Many leads just turn out to be tire-kickers with lots of time on their hands.

The primary cognitive referent regarding “good” or “bad” practices in this business is ethical behavior. That means the question an agent will ask (of himself or whomever) is “Is this practice or deed ethical?”

I don’t want to give you a semantic lecture but that basically means a question of how widespread the practice is, how clearly it was described, and whether or not it is considered “fair” by those who encounter it most. Ethics are shared morals.
Personal or non-shared idiosyncratic morals do not get much consideration in the grand scheme.

If you used the standard California Association of Realtors Residential Purchase Agreement and Joint Escrow Instructions (hereinafter referred to as the “CAR RPA” or “RPA” or “offer”) there is a section (paragraph 27B) that states that there may be offers from other buyers and that the agent you are working with may bring those offers.

The fact that this is disclosed to you (whether or not you actually read the form you signed) and that it is a standard of practice is what makes it not unethical.

It would be arguably unethical for your agent to start going over the specifics of somebody else’s offer with you. While it is considered legal, most agents will not do it. That means that he probably acted more ethically by not discussing the other offer with you.

Here is an example. If a good deal comes active in my market, I will show it to several of my buyers. If 2 buyers asked to write offers, I would be required to represent them enthusiastically and ethically. It would be unethical for me to discuss one client’s business with another client. I would ethically disclose to each of them that, in theory, there could be competing offers. Also, please remember that the agent is not the one that decides how much the buyer offers.

It is also arguably unethical for the listing agent to be discussing the property issues with you and without your agent. While certainly different, there are some similarities to the relationship an attorney has with his client. This listing agent is a professional with more expertise than you and he really could have taken advantage of you.

Here is an example. Recently, I had an open house. The property was listed by an agent in another city (Encinitas). I do this a lot to meet prospective buyers and gain name recognition. Another agent in my office with whom I am friends sent her clients by themselves to the open house (she was busy). She knew that I would respect the agency relationship between her and them. Because the clients have seen her and I together and because we have desks next to each other and because we have the same logo on our card, they assumed we are really part of a team (which would generally mean we share income and clients). This was understandable and innocent. They started to talk about purchasing strategies. I stopped them right there. I advised that I am not their agent and that I was, in fact working with buyers on that particular property. The implication was (correctly) that I would use what they said in my presence to the advantage of my clients. That bothered them but I would rather have irritated attendees than act unethically.

[urbanrealtor]

I just re-read the below post and I don’t want to come off as an apologist for cheesy agents. I really am trying to explain some of the ethical considerations that go into doing business as an agent. I will start with this: In a market where buyers’ agents are only paid upon closing, it is necessary to work with multiple buyers at any given time. Many leads just turn out to be tire-kickers with lots of time on their hands.

The primary cognitive referent regarding “good” or “bad” practices in this business is ethical behavior. That means the question an agent will ask (of himself or whomever) is “Is this practice or deed ethical?”

I don’t want to give you a semantic lecture but that basically means a question of how widespread the practice is, how clearly it was described, and whether or not it is considered “fair” by those who encounter it most. Ethics are shared morals.
Personal or non-shared idiosyncratic morals do not get much consideration in the grand scheme.

If you used the standard California Association of Realtors Residential Purchase Agreement and Joint Escrow Instructions (hereinafter referred to as the “CAR RPA” or “RPA” or “offer”) there is a section (paragraph 27B) that states that there may be offers from other buyers and that the agent you are working with may bring those offers.

The fact that this is disclosed to you (whether or not you actually read the form you signed) and that it is a standard of practice is what makes it not unethical.

It would be arguably unethical for your agent to start going over the specifics of somebody else’s offer with you. While it is considered legal, most agents will not do it. That means that he probably acted more ethically by not discussing the other offer with you.

Here is an example. If a good deal comes active in my market, I will show it to several of my buyers. If 2 buyers asked to write offers, I would be required to represent them enthusiastically and ethically. It would be unethical for me to discuss one client’s business with another client. I would ethically disclose to each of them that, in theory, there could be competing offers. Also, please remember that the agent is not the one that decides how much the buyer offers.

It is also arguably unethical for the listing agent to be discussing the property issues with you and without your agent. While certainly different, there are some similarities to the relationship an attorney has with his client. This listing agent is a professional with more expertise than you and he really could have taken advantage of you.

Here is an example. Recently, I had an open house. The property was listed by an agent in another city (Encinitas). I do this a lot to meet prospective buyers and gain name recognition. Another agent in my office with whom I am friends sent her clients by themselves to the open house (she was busy). She knew that I would respect the agency relationship between her and them. Because the clients have seen her and I together and because we have desks next to each other and because we have the same logo on our card, they assumed we are really part of a team (which would generally mean we share income and clients). This was understandable and innocent. They started to talk about purchasing strategies. I stopped them right there. I advised that I am not their agent and that I was, in fact working with buyers on that particular property. The implication was (correctly) that I would use what they said in my presence to the advantage of my clients. That bothered them but I would rather have irritated attendees than act unethically.

[urbanrealtor]

I just re-read the below post and I don’t want to come off as an apologist for cheesy agents. I really am trying to explain some of the ethical considerations that go into doing business as an agent. I will start with this: In a market where buyers’ agents are only paid upon closing, it is necessary to work with multiple buyers at any given time. Many leads just turn out to be tire-kickers with lots of time on their hands.

The primary cognitive referent regarding “good” or “bad” practices in this business is ethical behavior. That means the question an agent will ask (of himself or whomever) is “Is this practice or deed ethical?”

I don’t want to give you a semantic lecture but that basically means a question of how widespread the practice is, how clearly it was described, and whether or not it is considered “fair” by those who encounter it most. Ethics are shared morals.
Personal or non-shared idiosyncratic morals do not get much consideration in the grand scheme.

If you used the standard California Association of Realtors Residential Purchase Agreement and Joint Escrow Instructions (hereinafter referred to as the “CAR RPA” or “RPA” or “offer”) there is a section (paragraph 27B) that states that there may be offers from other buyers and that the agent you are working with may bring those offers.

The fact that this is disclosed to you (whether or not you actually read the form you signed) and that it is a standard of practice is what makes it not unethical.

It would be arguably unethical for your agent to start going over the specifics of somebody else’s offer with you. While it is considered legal, most agents will not do it. That means that he probably acted more ethically by not discussing the other offer with you.

Here is an example. If a good deal comes active in my market, I will show it to several of my buyers. If 2 buyers asked to write offers, I would be required to represent them enthusiastically and ethically. It would be unethical for me to discuss one client’s business with another client. I would ethically disclose to each of them that, in theory, there could be competing offers. Also, please remember that the agent is not the one that decides how much the buyer offers.

It is also arguably unethical for the listing agent to be discussing the property issues with you and without your agent. While certainly different, there are some similarities to the relationship an attorney has with his client. This listing agent is a professional with more expertise than you and he really could have taken advantage of you.

Here is an example. Recently, I had an open house. The property was listed by an agent in another city (Encinitas). I do this a lot to meet prospective buyers and gain name recognition. Another agent in my office with whom I am friends sent her clients by themselves to the open house (she was busy). She knew that I would respect the agency relationship between her and them. Because the clients have seen her and I together and because we have desks next to each other and because we have the same logo on our card, they assumed we are really part of a team (which would generally mean we share income and clients). This was understandable and innocent. They started to talk about purchasing strategies. I stopped them right there. I advised that I am not their agent and that I was, in fact working with buyers on that particular property. The implication was (correctly) that I would use what they said in my presence to the advantage of my clients. That bothered them but I would rather have irritated attendees than act unethically.

[urbanrealtor]

I just re-read the below post and I don’t want to come off as an apologist for cheesy agents. I really am trying to explain some of the ethical considerations that go into doing business as an agent. I will start with this: In a market where buyers’ agents are only paid upon closing, it is necessary to work with multiple buyers at any given time. Many leads just turn out to be tire-kickers with lots of time on their hands.

The primary cognitive referent regarding “good” or “bad” practices in this business is ethical behavior. That means the question an agent will ask (of himself or whomever) is “Is this practice or deed ethical?”

I don’t want to give you a semantic lecture but that basically means a question of how widespread the practice is, how clearly it was described, and whether or not it is considered “fair” by those who encounter it most. Ethics are shared morals.
Personal or non-shared idiosyncratic morals do not get much consideration in the grand scheme.

If you used the standard California Association of Realtors Residential Purchase Agreement and Joint Escrow Instructions (hereinafter referred to as the “CAR RPA” or “RPA” or “offer”) there is a section (paragraph 27B) that states that there may be offers from other buyers and that the agent you are working with may bring those offers.

The fact that this is disclosed to you (whether or not you actually read the form you signed) and that it is a standard of practice is what makes it not unethical.

It would be arguably unethical for your agent to start going over the specifics of somebody else’s offer with you. While it is considered legal, most agents will not do it. That means that he probably acted more ethically by not discussing the other offer with you.

Here is an example. If a good deal comes active in my market, I will show it to several of my buyers. If 2 buyers asked to write offers, I would be required to represent them enthusiastically and ethically. It would be unethical for me to discuss one client’s business with another client. I would ethically disclose to each of them that, in theory, there could be competing offers. Also, please remember that the agent is not the one that decides how much the buyer offers.

It is also arguably unethical for the listing agent to be discussing the property issues with you and without your agent. While certainly different, there are some similarities to the relationship an attorney has with his client. This listing agent is a professional with more expertise than you and he really could have taken advantage of you.

Here is an example. Recently, I had an open house. The property was listed by an agent in another city (Encinitas). I do this a lot to meet prospective buyers and gain name recognition. Another agent in my office with whom I am friends sent her clients by themselves to the open house (she was busy). She knew that I would respect the agency relationship between her and them. Because the clients have seen her and I together and because we have desks next to each other and because we have the same logo on our card, they assumed we are really part of a team (which would generally mean we share income and clients). This was understandable and innocent. They started to talk about purchasing strategies. I stopped them right there. I advised that I am not their agent and that I was, in fact working with buyers on that particular property. The implication was (correctly) that I would use what they said in my presence to the advantage of my clients. That bothered them but I would rather have irritated attendees than act unethically.

[urbanrealtor]

I just re-read the below post and I don’t want to come off as an apologist for cheesy agents. I really am trying to explain some of the ethical considerations that go into doing business as an agent. I will start with this: In a market where buyers’ agents are only paid upon closing, it is necessary to work with multiple buyers at any given time. Many leads just turn out to be tire-kickers with lots of time on their hands.

The primary cognitive referent regarding “good” or “bad” practices in this business is ethical behavior. That means the question an agent will ask (of himself or whomever) is “Is this practice or deed ethical?”

I don’t want to give you a semantic lecture but that basically means a question of how widespread the practice is, how clearly it was described, and whether or not it is considered “fair” by those who encounter it most. Ethics are shared morals.
Personal or non-shared idiosyncratic morals do not get much consideration in the grand scheme.

If you used the standard California Association of Realtors Residential Purchase Agreement and Joint Escrow Instructions (hereinafter referred to as the “CAR RPA” or “RPA” or “offer”) there is a section (paragraph 27B) that states that there may be offers from other buyers and that the agent you are working with may bring those offers.

The fact that this is disclosed to you (whether or not you actually read the form you signed) and that it is a standard of practice is what makes it not unethical.

It would be arguably unethical for your agent to start going over the specifics of somebody else’s offer with you. While it is considered legal, most agents will not do it. That means that he probably acted more ethically by not discussing the other offer with you.

Here is an example. If a good deal comes active in my market, I will show it to several of my buyers. If 2 buyers asked to write offers, I would be required to represent them enthusiastically and ethically. It would be unethical for me to discuss one client’s business with another client. I would ethically disclose to each of them that, in theory, there could be competing offers. Also, please remember that the agent is not the one that decides how much the buyer offers.

It is also arguably unethical for the listing agent to be discussing the property issues with you and without your agent. While certainly different, there are some similarities to the relationship an attorney has with his client. This listing agent is a professional with more expertise than you and he really could have taken advantage of you.

Here is an example. Recently, I had an open house. The property was listed by an agent in another city (Encinitas). I do this a lot to meet prospective buyers and gain name recognition. Another agent in my office with whom I am friends sent her clients by themselves to the open house (she was busy). She knew that I would respect the agency relationship between her and them. Because the clients have seen her and I together and because we have desks next to each other and because we have the same logo on our card, they assumed we are really part of a team (which would generally mean we share income and clients). This was understandable and innocent. They started to talk about purchasing strategies. I stopped them right there. I advised that I am not their agent and that I was, in fact working with buyers on that particular property. The implication was (correctly) that I would use what they said in my presence to the advantage of my clients. That bothered them but I would rather have irritated attendees than act unethically.

[Eugene]

On the subject of ethics.

If you’re already represented by an agent in a pending real estate transaction, is it ethical and/or legal to do business (tour houses, submit offers) with a different agent?

I made an offer on a short sale, and I’m currently waiting for a response from the bank. The agent originally promised a response within 3-5 business days. It’s been 2 weeks and I still don’t know if the bank is going to accept my offer. What’s worse, my agent says that there’s a higher offer, and I don’t want to raise. In essence, prospects look bleak, but I may not find out for sure for several weeks.

In the mean time, I want to tour other houses and possibly make another offer on a short sale. Last time I made a mistake by going through a full-service agent, this time I want to use a discount broker (redfin).

– Is it okay to make an offer on a different through redfin before breaking relationships with my existing agent?
– Would it be okay to make an offer on the same house, again through redfin, if short sale falls through and it comes back on the market as a REO?

[Eugene]

On the subject of ethics.

If you’re already represented by an agent in a pending real estate transaction, is it ethical and/or legal to do business (tour houses, submit offers) with a different agent?

I made an offer on a short sale, and I’m currently waiting for a response from the bank. The agent originally promised a response within 3-5 business days. It’s been 2 weeks and I still don’t know if the bank is going to accept my offer. What’s worse, my agent says that there’s a higher offer, and I don’t want to raise. In essence, prospects look bleak, but I may not find out for sure for several weeks.

In the mean time, I want to tour other houses and possibly make another offer on a short sale. Last time I made a mistake by going through a full-service agent, this time I want to use a discount broker (redfin).

– Is it okay to make an offer on a different through redfin before breaking relationships with my existing agent?
– Would it be okay to make an offer on the same house, again through redfin, if short sale falls through and it comes back on the market as a REO?

[Eugene]

On the subject of ethics.

If you’re already represented by an agent in a pending real estate transaction, is it ethical and/or legal to do business (tour houses, submit offers) with a different agent?

I made an offer on a short sale, and I’m currently waiting for a response from the bank. The agent originally promised a response within 3-5 business days. It’s been 2 weeks and I still don’t know if the bank is going to accept my offer. What’s worse, my agent says that there’s a higher offer, and I don’t want to raise. In essence, prospects look bleak, but I may not find out for sure for several weeks.

In the mean time, I want to tour other houses and possibly make another offer on a short sale. Last time I made a mistake by going through a full-service agent, this time I want to use a discount broker (redfin).

– Is it okay to make an offer on a different through redfin before breaking relationships with my existing agent?
– Would it be okay to make an offer on the same house, again through redfin, if short sale falls through and it comes back on the market as a REO?

[Eugene]

On the subject of ethics.

If you’re already represented by an agent in a pending real estate transaction, is it ethical and/or legal to do business (tour houses, submit offers) with a different agent?

I made an offer on a short sale, and I’m currently waiting for a response from the bank. The agent originally promised a response within 3-5 business days. It’s been 2 weeks and I still don’t know if the bank is going to accept my offer. What’s worse, my agent says that there’s a higher offer, and I don’t want to raise. In essence, prospects look bleak, but I may not find out for sure for several weeks.

In the mean time, I want to tour other houses and possibly make another offer on a short sale. Last time I made a mistake by going through a full-service agent, this time I want to use a discount broker (redfin).

– Is it okay to make an offer on a different through redfin before breaking relationships with my existing agent?
– Would it be okay to make an offer on the same house, again through redfin, if short sale falls through and it comes back on the market as a REO?

[Eugene]

On the subject of ethics.

If you’re already represented by an agent in a pending real estate transaction, is it ethical and/or legal to do business (tour houses, submit offers) with a different agent?

I made an offer on a short sale, and I’m currently waiting for a response from the bank. The agent originally promised a response within 3-5 business days. It’s been 2 weeks and I still don’t know if the bank is going to accept my offer. What’s worse, my agent says that there’s a higher offer, and I don’t want to raise. In essence, prospects look bleak, but I may not find out for sure for several weeks.

In the mean time, I want to tour other houses and possibly make another offer on a short sale. Last time I made a mistake by going through a full-service agent, this time I want to use a discount broker (redfin).

– Is it okay to make an offer on a different through redfin before breaking relationships with my existing agent?
– Would it be okay to make an offer on the same house, again through redfin, if short sale falls through and it comes back on the market as a REO?

[SD Realtor]

e if you have not signed a specific representation agreement I see no problem with either situation you have posed. It would be…. polite for you to at least inform the agent you are working with that you are working with someone else. If they inquire why you can let them know. Any buyers agent can go ahead and reduce the commission they receive and rebate it back to you (yet most of thier brokers will not allow that).

It is all negotiable. I never understand why more buyers do not demand that.

[SD Realtor]

e if you have not signed a specific representation agreement I see no problem with either situation you have posed. It would be…. polite for you to at least inform the agent you are working with that you are working with someone else. If they inquire why you can let them know. Any buyers agent can go ahead and reduce the commission they receive and rebate it back to you (yet most of thier brokers will not allow that).

It is all negotiable. I never understand why more buyers do not demand that.

[SD Realtor]

e if you have not signed a specific representation agreement I see no problem with either situation you have posed. It would be…. polite for you to at least inform the agent you are working with that you are working with someone else. If they inquire why you can let them know. Any buyers agent can go ahead and reduce the commission they receive and rebate it back to you (yet most of thier brokers will not allow that).

It is all negotiable. I never understand why more buyers do not demand that.

[SD Realtor]

e if you have not signed a specific representation agreement I see no problem with either situation you have posed. It would be…. polite for you to at least inform the agent you are working with that you are working with someone else. If they inquire why you can let them know. Any buyers agent can go ahead and reduce the commission they receive and rebate it back to you (yet most of thier brokers will not allow that).

It is all negotiable. I never understand why more buyers do not demand that.

[Author]

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