Prop 30 passes… Get ready to bend over…..

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=AN]
Would that mean CA will no longer have any problem, since Democrats can do almost anything they want?[/quote]

Yes. 🙂

The positive side of me welcomes passage of prop. 30. It is preferable to have prop. 30, rather than the unknown alternative that would have come from our assembly in Sacramento which certainly would have been a lot worse.

[quote=AN]
My point is, I better not hear anymore excuses about unemployment or budget problem. When you have super majority in all branches, there’s no one left to blame.[/quote]

+1

[Coronita]

[quote=Hobie][quote=flu]poor people are about to get poorer…But again, not my problem….[/quote]

except the more ‘disavantaged’ there are, the more you and I will have to pay our fair share. Thank you sir may I have another.[/quote]

Not really. You see, when CA raises it’s sales tax, who’s really gonna feel the pinch.. Not really us…You and me and AN can probably just cut back on spending…if we wanted to, you me an everyone financially responsible could weather it a lot better than anyone else who already spent their credit…
Hypothetically, let’s say you earn an extra $150k, and have to pay an incremental 2% on it. That’s like $3k… That’s $3k that doesn’t go to discretionary spending. to damn bad for someone else… And that’s only if you realize the $150k as income/gain.
You could probably buy/lease a electric/hybrid/etc and enjoy the incentives that they government will throw at us, because we have disposable income.. (Perhaps leasing a $300/month Volt and then writing it off as a business expense)…We can get out cheap loans. etc etc etc.
Or if you’re a landlord, you can probably just raise the rent here or there a bit…Or if you’re a small biz owner, you just nudge the price up a bit or two…

The people really gonna feel it are folks for which a good portion of their disposable income goes to prepared food, services, gas, toilet paper,etc,etc,etc… Again, not my problem.

The other group of people are the older people on fixed income without a any sort of COL adjustments…They’re screwed….

And again the less money more people have available, that means those people aren’t going to be buying any housing anytime soon…

I think if you’re in the top 5%, you are either still working or you have amassed wealth, and you can probably figure out how to pass on your 1-3% tax hike to someone else, or to take it out of someone else’s pocket (could be as simple as not spending it)….

You can watch everyone else wallow in the mud….Because they voted for this monster.

It’s all relative dude…. I would be completely bitching if they only raised the taxes for the top earners and didn’t pass on this sales tax to everyone…. But everyone’s gonna feel the pain on this one… I love universal/equal opportunity pain.

Because me thinks once everyone goes through it..No one wants to do it again (if only for a brief time period)…

[flyer]

Agree with most all of your comments, in, that, giving the state more money to spend, will not solve any problems that really matter–even for the people who are supposed to benefit.

Those who are SUPPOSED to benefit will, IMO, actually be the most harmed in the final analysis.

They will find it even more difficult to find high paying jobs in CA–because what sane person with a business, will keep their tax base in CA now (if, in fact, they ever did?)?? The presumed beneficiaries will also still find it difficult, if not impossible, to own property in CA, and on and on, so, I just don’t see a “net” win for them in the long-term.

As usual, the masses have just shot themselves in the foot–AGAIN–but, as FLU says–who cares?

[ltsddd]

I am not sure what’s all this fuzz is about. Unless you’re making a killing and raking in millions a year. The financial impact is minimal.

An individual with $11K in income a year (at around the poverty line) will be affected at most by about $28 per year.

Some one making $1 less than $250K a year will be on the hook at most $625.

Or if you’re fortunate enough to be making between $250-300K per year then it will set you back between $3125 and $3750. It’s a good chunk of money, but seriously it’s not the end of the world.
(I wonder how many Piggs fall into this category and upward??)

All this talk about businesses leaving California is not going to happen. If leaving CA is the most prudent and best thing for businesses and individuals they would have done that already. The fact that with all the taxes and regulations in the state and CA still has the 7th or 8th highest GDP in the world tells you that contrary to what the fear mongers want you to believe. People enjoy living and working here in this state and the majority of them will adapt just fine.

The sky is falling – not.

[Hobie]

Ltsdd: You gotta move the decimal point for business. It does matter. Calif used to be 5th -6th GDP in the world, big ships turns slowly.

[flyer]

My entire family, for several generations, was born and raised in this state–and owes a great deal of our wealth to the real estate booms we have had in this state over the last 100 years–so I’m well aware of what a wonderful place it is to live.

Apparently, I was grossly misinformed (hence my previous post), so I’m actually glad to hear this proposition won’t have much effect on anyone achieving their “California Dreams.” Enjoy!

[CA renter]

[quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality][quote=XBoxBoy]You ain’t seen nothing yet. Democrats will have super-majorities in both houses of the California legislature after this election. Let the taxing and spending begin!!![/quote]

No what happened last time we did that?

We got prop 13…[/quote]

Yup, but wait. Some people think we should repeal that now…Well at least for investment property (obviously from people who don’t own investment property)…[/quote]

FWIW, we’ve owned investment property, and will do so in the future. We also will (most likely) be inheriting property in a higher-end area that was purchased in the 1940s. I’m more than willing to give up the property tax protections from Prop 13.

See, not all of us are selfish, egocentric pigs. Some of us still believe in, and advocate for, doing the right thing even though it would harm our own interests.

Prop 13 would NEVER have passed if it were billed as a way to subsidize the profits of landlords and commercial interests at the expense of regular taxpayers. Prop 13 is why we have such high income tax rates, so it’s pretty funny when we hear people whine about CA’s income tax rates, then complain about the possibility of losing Prop 13 protection. It was supposed to protect people (especially elderly people on fixed incomes) from being taxed out of their own homes.

Do the anti-taxers really think there’s a magical infrastructure fairy that waves her magic wand over the state? What makes the whole “anti-tax” meme so funny is that most of the biggest whiners are the very ones who want to live in clean, safe communities with good roads, up-to-date infrastructure, and nice parks, etc. They also want clean, safe schools with exceptional teachers, the newest/best technology, P.E. teachers, GATE/Seminar/Advanced Placement programs, etc., BUT THEY DON’T WANT TO PAY FOR IT. The money has to come from somewhere…stop looking for a free ride.

I’m willing to bet that those of us who argue for higher taxes are probably paying a higher overall tax rate than those who whine the most about taxes.

[CA renter]

Just for fun…this chart shows top marginal tax rates vs GDP. It’s clear that GDP grew quite nicely when top tax rates were at 70-90%. Can one of the anti-taxers please present data, any data at all, that shows how lower taxes lead to a stronger economy and better society? If you look at our own history, you’ll see that the periods with the lowest top tax rates caused/coincided with the greatest concentrations of wealth/income, and led to devastating depressions and economic shocks.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2012/09/do-lower-taxes-goose-growth.html

——————

More:

But is the theory true? Do tax cuts really spur growth?
The answer appears to be “no.”
According to a new study by the Congressional Research Service (non-partisan), there’s no evidence that tax cuts spur growth.
In fact, although correlation is not causation, when you compare economic growth in periods with declining tax rates versus periods with high tax rates, there seems to be evidence that tax cuts might hurt growth. But we’ll leave that possibility for another day.
One thing that tax cuts do unequivocally do–at least tax cuts for the highest earners–is increase economic inequality. Given that economic inequality is one of the biggest problems we face in this country right now, this conclusion is very important.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/study-tax-cuts-dont-lead-to-growth-2012-9#ixzz2Bd3lLCOS

[livinincali]

[quote=CA renter]Just for fun…this chart shows top marginal tax rates vs GDP. It’s clear that GDP grew quite nicely when top tax rates were at 70-90%. Can one of the anti-taxers please present data, any data at all, that shows how lower taxes lead to a stronger economy and better society? If you look at our own history, you’ll see that the periods with the lowest top tax rates caused/coincided with the greatest concentrations of wealth/income, and led to devastating depressions and economic shocks.
[/quote]

I think the constant threat of tax increases is actually more damaging than the actual tax increase. Certainty of the tax code is probably more important than the actual code. Of course I honestly don’t think taxes are remotely close to the most important thing in driving the economy forward. The problem is we’ve been increasing debt faster than GDP for decades and the bill is coming due. You can’t spend more than you make forever and we’re getting close to the limit. When that point hits the economy will shrink to a sustainable level and be free to grow again. Preventing that from happening means we going to sit in this quagmire of slow choppy growth for as far as the eye can see.

Tax policy, QE, fiscal stimulus and everything that gets tried to fix the economy will be relatively ineffective and will not produce a positive return on investment. Eventually the market will decide and the powers that be will be powerless to stop it. Is giving government hand outs and government employees more money actually going to increase the total goods and services produced here in America? That’s the only question that really matters and one that demand side economists ignore in our global economy.

[no_such_reality]

Uncertainty is far more damaging than higher taxes. The State is horribly capricious.

The rich are going to actually get richer in this state because the gravy boat is set to slop all over their table.

[Happs]

What I find interesting and unusual is that wealthier coastal counties voted for Prop 30 (in essence raising taxes on their earned income) whereas poorer rural counties voted against it.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/maps/ballot-measures/prop/30/

[Anonymous]

What happened to SD and OC?

Uncertainty is far more damaging than higher taxes. The State is horribly capricious.

The rich are going to actually get richer in this state because the gravy boat is set to slop all over their table.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Happs]What I find interesting and unusual is that wealthier coastal counties voted for Prop 30 (in essence raising taxes on their earned income) whereas poorer rural counties voted against it.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/maps/ballot-measures/prop/30/%5B/quote%5D

High income people know the importance of education better.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]
Do the anti-taxers really think there’s a magical infrastructure fairy that waves her magic wand over the state? What makes the whole “anti-tax” meme so funny is that most of the biggest whiners are the very ones who want to live in clean, safe communities with good roads, up-to-date infrastructure, and nice parks, etc. They also want clean, safe schools with exceptional teachers, the newest/best technology, P.E. teachers, GATE/Seminar/Advanced Placement programs, etc., BUT THEY DON’T WANT TO PAY FOR IT. The money has to come from somewhere…stop looking for a free ride.

I’m willing to bet that those of us who argue for higher taxes are probably paying a higher overall tax rate than those who whine the most about taxes.[/quote]

Agree with you.

[Zeitgeist]

It looks like you will get your theory(ies) tested in the next couple of years. There are a lot of people that think those that do not want to pay these rates will find a more tax friendly State. There is also the theory that the rich will find ways to “lower” their income by changing their investments. Therefore, I think the taxes will mainly impact the middle class. If they do not like it then they can change their vote the next time around.

It is going to be interesting to watch this social experiment we call California. I do not think the schools will improve because I expect the State to find a way to siphon the money to where they want it. I also think the teachers will not improve because of more money any more than the police dept. improves with more money. Both just spend it on more administrators. All the COPPS money that was spent during the Clinton years was mostly pissed away, including upper level employees taking the cars and computers that were supposed to go to the working level law enforcement employees. It was just one big money grab with no oversight from the Feds.

Call my distrustful, but that is what I saw happen and I do not have much hope for this being different because that is always what happens with OPM- other people’s money. Your mileage may vary…

[Author]

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