Paying off Mello Roos

[earlyretirement]

FYI, the reporter did a follow up story on Mello-Roos here.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jun/17/mello-roos-law-allows-vote-one-decide-new-taxes/

[ocrenter]

[quote=earlyretirement]FYI, the reporter did a follow up story on Mello-Roos here.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jun/17/mello-roos-law-allows-vote-one-decide-new-taxes/%5B/quote%5D

ER, thanks for the follow up link.

My burning question after reading that piece is this:

So the original formation of the CFD required a vote, which is fine. But what about a possible extension, that would require a vote by the CFD district, right? which would be fully populated with actual voters instead of the vote of 1 scenario the article illustrated.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=earlyretirement]FYI, the reporter did a follow up story on Mello-Roos here.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/jun/17/mello-roos-law-allows-vote-one-decide-new-taxes/%5B/quote%5D

ER, thanks for the follow up link.

My burning question after reading that piece is this:

So the original formation of the CFD required a vote, which is fine. But what about a possible extension, that would require a vote by the CFD district, right? which would be fully populated with actual voters instead of the vote of 1 scenario the article illustrated.[/quote]

Hi OCR. Yes, I am very curious about that as well. I asked Joanne from KPBS if they could address these issues. She said that she would be doing more articles on it addressing several of my questions which is great.

Like you, I’m very curious about it. I think they keep it all fairly murky for a reason. I’m sure that most homeowners that are buying in a CFD area just bite the pill and swallow and accept they have to pay CFD taxes. So they might just accept the fact that they have to pay CFD taxes for the next XX years.

But I’m sure they WOULD care quite a bit if these things can get extended beyond when they originally were told they would be paid off! But again, the sad thing is that most homeowners have no clue about these, when they are slated to be paid off.

And at least taking from the article, at least one homeowner didn’t even know when he was being charged over 100% more on his CFD tax. I’m looking forward to reading these future articles on the issue.

[bearishgurl]

ER, I think it is wonderful that MR is garnering this much public attention through the local media. In the past, especially during the millenium boom, which occurred during and just after the biggest building boom in SD County history, young buyers signed up for new homes in developers’ offices en masse (mostly using a 1st and 2nd TD and putting little to nothing down) and the majority had no idea how much MR was going to cost. Not only did their mortgages (predictably) reset a few years down the line, many of them were completely surprised months after move-in at the monthly outlay they found themselves having to come up with to satisfy MR twice yearly in combination with HOA dues (over and above their regular property taxes and insurance payments). In post 2000 construction, it is not at all uncommon for the combination of MR and HOA to top $700 per month, even for PUDs and condos. As these millenium-boom buyers’ loans reset, they stopped paying their mortgages but many stopped paying their taxes, MR and HOA a few months before that in attempt to satisfy their new, higher mortgage payment. Within 8 months of the reset (or often much sooner), their mortgages went into default.

As we all know, $700 can buy a few months worth of diapers and formula, pay for a couple of elementary-age kids’ afterschool care, or buy enough gas for a couple of parents in a family to commute their separate ways every weekday or plow into their retirement funds.

If just ONE thing goes wrong in Joe6p’s family (complicated pregnancy requiring unpaid maternity leave, involuntary cutback of work hours, loss of ONE of the parent’s jobs, uninsured medical expenses, for example), their property taxes (incl MR), homeowner’s insurance premiums and HOA dues are the first to go delinquent even the absence of an exploding mortgage reset. I’ve seen this phenomenon time and time again on new construction tracts purchased btween 2004 and 2006, where impounds were not common because a PM 2nd TD holder put up the 20% downpayment for the buyers.

This is Joe6P and his family we are talking about here. The “wealthy” aren’t attracted to stucco boxes situated 6-8 feet from one another out in lizardland, and, in any case, can send their kids to private schools of their choosing.

The news commentator in the link you provided has it right. The title to her investigative series is “Mello-Roos, the Tax You Choose.” I’ve been saying here all along that MR is the “tax you choose” given all other housing choices we have in this huge county. The law allows the bond repayment managers of the CFD’s to stretch out the repayment period if it is just repaying the same amount of principal but possibly initially had variable interest rates or I/O terms and they now seek to begin paying on the principal or pay more on the principal, whether or not they refied the loans or are able to refi them.

ER, the reason the bulk of the affected homeowners don’t care if the bonds will be paid off in 20, 30, 35 or 40+ years is because they have no intention of owning the property anywhere near that long, so will just pass along whatever duration of the payments left to their buyer. The buyers and new owners who have intentions of owning the longest are those who have two or more children close in age who are just starting public school or about to. If their kids are currently 0, 2, 4 and 5, then the longest they would have to stay to get all their kids through the public school system would be about 18 years. A LOT of families buy into these tracts when their kids are already enrolled in school and thus, would only need to own for 10 years or less to get their kids through school. After the kids are done with school, there is no reason whatsoever to continue to pay exorbitant MR, such as in that Del Sur tract which was the original subject of the news investigation.

The VAST majority of buyers signing up for MR, especially MR over $100 per month, are those with children who will attend the newer schools that the MR was used to build. All other subsets of buyers have no “need” to throw all that money (in MR) every month down the drain. I find it sad that so many homebuyers today feel they have to pay hundreds of dollars per month over and above their property tax bills just for the privilege of their children attending a PUBLIC school. It’s akin to extortion in my book … but then you have all these “willing participants” who “choose” to pay it in light of all the available alternatives :=0

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl]ER, I think it is wonderful that MR is garnering this much public attention through the local media. In the past, especially during the millenium boom, which occurred during and just after the biggest building boom in SD County history, young buyers signed up for new homes in developers’ offices en masse (mostly using a 1st and 2nd TD and putting little to nothing down) and the majority had no idea how much MR was going to cost. Not only did their mortgages (predictably) reset a few years down the line, many of them were completely surprised months after move-in at the monthly outlay they found themselves having to come up with to satisfy MR twice yearly in combination with HOA dues (over and above their regular property taxes and insurance payments). In post 2000 construction, it is not at all uncommon for the combination of MR and HOA to top $700 per month, even for PUDs and condos. As these millenium-boom buyers’ loans reset, they stopped paying their mortgages but many stopped paying their taxes, MR and HOA a few months before that in attempt to satisfy their new, higher mortgage payment. Within 8 months of the reset (or often much sooner), their mortgages went into default.

As we all know, $700 can buy a few months worth of diapers and formula, pay for a couple of elementary-age kids’ afterschool care, or buy enough gas for a couple of parents in a family to commute their separate ways every weekday or plow into their retirement funds.

If just ONE thing goes wrong in Joe6p’s family (complicated pregnancy requiring unpaid maternity leave, involuntary cutback of work hours, loss of ONE of the parent’s jobs, uninsured medical expenses, for example), their property taxes (incl MR), homeowner’s insurance premiums and HOA dues are the first to go delinquent even the absence of an exploding mortgage reset. I’ve seen this phenomenon time and time again on new construction tracts purchased btween 2004 and 2006, where impounds were not common because a PM 2nd TD holder put up the 20% downpayment for the buyers.

This is Joe6P and his family we are talking about here. The “wealthy” aren’t attracted to stucco boxes situated 6-8 feet from one another out in lizardland, and, in any case, can send their kids to private schools of their choosing.

The news commentator in the link you provided has it right. The title to her investigative series is “Mello-Roos, the Tax You Choose.” I’ve been saying here all along that MR is the “tax you choose” given all other housing choices we have in this huge county. The law allows the bond repayment managers of the CFD’s to stretch out the repayment period if it is just repaying the same amount of principal but possibly initially had variable interest rates or I/O terms and they now seek to begin paying on the principal or pay more on the principal, whether or not they refied the loans or are able to refi them.

ER, the reason the bulk of the affected homeowners don’t care if the bonds will be paid off in 20, 30, 35 or 40+ years is because they have no intention of owning the property anywhere near that long, so will just pass along whatever duration of the payments left to their buyer. The buyers and new owners who have intentions of owning the longest are those who have two or more children close in age who are just starting public school or about to. If their kids are currently 0, 2, 4 and 5, then the longest they would have to stay to get all their kids through the public school system would be about 18 years. A LOT of families buy into these tracts when their kids are already enrolled in school and thus, would only need to own for 10 years or less to get their kids through school. After the kids are done with school, there is no reason whatsoever to continue to pay exorbitant MR, such as in that Del Sur tract which was the original subject of the news investigation.

The VAST majority of buyers signing up for MR, especially MR over $100 per month, are those with children who will attend the newer schools that the MR was used to build. All other subsets of buyers have no “need” to throw all that money (in MR) every month down the drain. I find it sad that so many homebuyers today feel they have to pay hundreds of dollars per month over and above their property tax bills just for the privilege of their children attending a PUBLIC school. It’s akin to extortion in my book … but then you have all these “willing participants” who “choose” to pay it in light of all the available alternatives :=0[/quote]

BG,

I totally agree that I’m happy that KPBS is covering this topic. A topic that most people in San Diego probably know NOTHING about and don’t care to know anything about.

I actually understand the need for Mello Roos taxes and actually I agree with them. HOWEVER, only if they are paid off by the original pay off dates.

People are free to choose if they want to live in a MR or not so people DO have options. I know you HATE these areas BG but I actually am one of those homeowners that is THRILLED with my decision to buy in a MR area and I find it well worth it.

The excellent schools were one factor in buying where we did but it wasn’t the only reason. We LOVE LOVE LOVE the area. I think it’s kind of funny you always call this Lizardland and always make it seem like it’s so far away and so distant. LOL.

I’m looking forward to reading more stories about Mello Roos taxes. I’m especially looking forward to hearing under which circumstances the CFD’s can be extended past their ORIGINAL pay off dates.

I do agree with you that probably many owners don’t really think past a few years or plan to sell their houses when they are empty nesters but you can’t paint everyone in that same picture because we know several people that own here in our area and they never have plans to move out of the area. Mello Roos or no Mello Roos.

You just have to remember BG that there are a lot of people that wouldn’t accept to live in certain parts of San Diego even if you gave them a free house. They would much rather live where they do paying a mortgage vs. taking a perfectly fine house in an area like Chula Vista. In fact, I’m one of those people. Even if you gave me the option of a FREE perfectly fine house in Chula Vista and promise to pay all property taxes…. I’d opt not to take it and pay a mortgage instead along with any applicable taxes. Nothing wrong with that…it’s just the way it is.

[bearishgurl]

ER, I viewed three of your SantaLuz videos last night. SantaLuz cannot be compared to the Del Sur tract that the newswoman is investigating for MR overcharges as they are apples and oranges for a variety of reasons.

SantaLuz (the SFRs at least) are situated on spacious lots, thus you aren’t listening to your neighbors’ toilet flush. A (renowned?) golf course designer came into the picture early on (before housing was even in the picture) and created a world class golf course to run with the lay of the land. You have a full-service gym/spa on site as well as a restaurant which serves only the residents and their guests. I think it is interesting that young families (mostly newcomers to SD?) ultimately decided to buy into SantaLuz and the comaraderie among neighbors is very good due to all of the organized community activities. However, I personally would not like living behind a guarded gate (and we DO have a few of these type of subdivisions in South County, btw). Insomuch that your neighbors cannot store their non-running vehicles in front of their houses, for example, is a blessing, you are paying HIGH HOA dues ($440 mo for a SFR?) for enforcement of those covenants, conditions and restrictions. But you are correct in that you are getting tangible services (cable TV, broadband internet and trash P/U) for the money as well as the full service gym with classes, pool and jacuzzis (along with availability of on-site trainers, golf pros and masseuses, for example) is very nice. I don’t golf but would find the rest very convenient. And I was intrigued by the round-lot concept, capturing distant ocean and surrounding views since the development appears to sit up pretty high.

And for you (unlike the masses who purchase[d] elsewhere in 92127), I would leave the public schools issue out of the equation because you made an early payoff of your obligations to the CFDs encumbering your property and it was formally accepted as “paid in full.” Whether or not a buyer will pay you for your trouble and expense is immaterial in your case, IMO. The reason being that the PUSD is in deep sh!t and will remain so far into the future (which is not your problem anymore). You have kid(s) who are or will ostensibly attend the public schools there and so ~$60K is not that great of a cash outlay in light of the fact that you state will hold your property longer than ten years.

From your videos, it truly DOES appear that buyers in SantaLuz buy into a “convenient lifestyle” over buying just a home. However, I’ll bet if you ask your “buddy” in LG whether he would choose to buy in SantaLuz (if he could afford it) knowing it would cost him an additional ~$940 month in MR/HOA, that he would say no. I can see how younger buyers with minor children took the place of the “empty nester” buyers the development originally expected would be its target market. No matter how “well-heeled,” the mindset of many “empty nesters” who are already retired to soon to be retired is of conserving funds, not throwing ~$940 month to the wind. Especially in light of the low-interest environment we have today. You have to take into account that not only does this group not know if they will ever be able to enter the job market again (even on a part-time basis), they don’t know how long they will live and thus how long their funds need to last. For these reasons, it is folly for many in this demographic to throw ~$940 month out the window (or even $800, considering they were going to pay for cable/trash elsewhere) to live in a development where they may or may not regularly use its amenities.

I did enjoy the videos and thought your community was well-planned, ER. Many of your “brethren” in the rest of 92127 are no doubt paying just $100 to $150 less than you are every month in MR/HOA and not getting anywhere near level of amenities you are privy to OR the spacious lots. For this reason alone, I think you got a good deal for the house and lifestyle that you and your family wanted.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=earlyretirement]…You just have to remember BG that there are a lot of people that wouldn’t accept to live in certain parts of San Diego even if you gave them a free house. They would much rather live where they do paying a mortgage vs. taking a perfectly fine house in an area like Chula Vista. In fact, I’m one of those people. Even if you gave me the option of a FREE perfectly fine house in Chula Vista and promise to pay all property taxes…. I’d opt not to take it and pay a mortgage instead along with any applicable taxes. Nothing wrong with that…it’s just the way it is.[/quote]

ER, I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but about 5/8 of Chula Vista’s residential property owners pay MR. It WAS more like 2/3 of the population as recent as 2006, but since May 2007, ChulaV subdivisions have been retiring their MR bonds one by one.

FYI, developers within the City of Chula Vista (such as Lane Kuhn, Fieldstone and McMillin) DEBUTED the use of MR bonds in San Diego County. The next city to adopt them was Poway. The earlest ChulaV subdivisions built with 20 and 30 yr MR bonds with the first phases being sold in May 1987 (3 subd in Eastlake Shores) and 1991 (2 subd in Eastlake Hills) which have already paid off their MR bonds. RDR-II paid off their (20 yr) street bonds in 2012.

Having worked alongside several of these owners from the beginning, I’ve seen it all, first hand. The monthly HOA struggles, the HUGE property tax impounds, etc. A few of them hung in there and made it through to the retirement of the bonds but I’m not sure if this makes their properties more “valuable” than similarly-situated ChulaV properties which do not lie in MR areas OR if their kids got a “better” education than they would have had they attended schools in non-MR areas of the same district.

So, in a nutshell, I “get” the concept of MR but don’t know/can’t measure its true long-term fiscal value to an affected homewoner.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl]ER, I viewed three of your SantaLuz videos last night. SantaLuz cannot be compared to the Del Sur tract that the newswoman is investigating for MR overcharges as they are apples and oranges for a variety of reasons.

SantaLuz (the SFRs at least) are situated on spacious lots, thus you aren’t listening to your neighbors’ toilet flush. A (renowned?) golf course designer came into the picture early on (before housing was even in the picture) and created a world class golf course to run with the lay of the land. You have a full-service gym/spa on site as well as a restaurant which serves only the residents and their guests. I think it is interesting that young families (mostly newcomers to SD?) ultimately decided to buy into SantaLuz and the comaraderie among neighbors is very good due to all of the organized community activities. However, I personally would not like living behind a guarded gate (and we DO have a few of these type of subdivisions in South County, btw). Insomuch that your neighbors cannot store their non-running vehicles in front of their houses, for example, is a blessing, you are paying HIGH HOA dues ($440 mo for a SFR?) for enforcement of those covenants, conditions and restrictions. But you are correct in that you are getting tangible services (cable TV, broadband internet and trash P/U) for the money as well as the full service gym with classes, pool and jacuzzis (along with availability of on-site trainers, golf pros and masseuses, for example) is very nice. I don’t golf but would find the rest very convenient. And I was intrigued by the round-lot concept, capturing distant ocean and surrounding views since the development appears to sit up pretty high.

And for you (unlike the masses who purchase[d] elsewhere in 92127), I would leave the public schools issue out of the equation because you made an early payoff of your obligations to the CFDs encumbering your property and it was formally accepted as “paid in full.” Whether or not a buyer will pay you for your trouble and expense is immaterial in your case, IMO. The reason being that the PUSD is in deep sh!t and will remain so far into the future (which is not your problem anymore). You have kid(s) who are or will ostensibly attend the public schools there and so ~$60K is not that great of a cash outlay in light of the fact that you state will hold your property longer than ten years.

From your videos, it truly DOES appear that buyers in SantaLuz buy into a “convenient lifestyle” over buying just a home. However, I’ll bet if you ask your “buddy” in LG whether he would choose to buy in SantaLuz (if he could afford it) knowing it would cost him an additional ~$940 month in MR/HOA, that he would say no. I can see how younger buyers with minor children took the place of the “empty nester” buyers the development originally expected would be its target market. No matter how “well-heeled,” the mindset of many “empty nesters” who are already retired to soon to be retired is of conserving funds, not throwing ~$940 month to the wind. Especially in light of the low-interest environment we have today. You have to take into account that not only does this group not know if they will ever be able to enter the job market again (even on a part-time basis), they don’t know how long they will live and thus how long their funds need to last. For these reasons, it is folly for many in this demographic to throw ~$940 month out the window (or even $800, considering they were going to pay for cable/trash elsewhere) to live in a development where they may or may not regularly use its amenities.

I did enjoy the videos and thought your community was well-planned, ER. Many of your “brethren” in the rest of 92127 are no doubt paying just $100 to $150 less than you are every month in MR/HOA and not getting anywhere near level of amenities you are privy to OR the spacious lots. For this reason alone, I think you got a good deal for the house and lifestyle that you and your family wanted.[/quote]

Hi BG,

Thanks for the thoughts. I TOTALLY agree with you that you can NOT compare Del Sur to Santaluz. Like night and day, IMHO. Although for Mello Roos purposes, I had the CFD #4 and as I understand so do they in parts of Del Sur. Only I believe their CFD exposure is larger I believe.

You know, at first I didn’t think I would enjoy the “guard gated” portion as much as I do but I really really love it. It’s so extremely safe here. Even contractors that I put on my list can’t get in unless I put all of them on the list. (For example, I’d have several contractors with a company and unless I listed all of them specifically they would stop them at the gate and call me).

Having kids I really love how safe it is here. Even nearby Carmel Valley has had a rash of break ins lately but we don’t have that problem at all in Santaluz. It is ranked one of the safest communities in all of Southern California.

Oh, my friend in Lemon Grove LOVES Santaluz and he said he would buy here in a heartbeat. Especially if he had kids. Really, I network quite a bit and have had many many friends and colleagues out here and they have all loved it. I know that you’ve never personally been out to Santaluz but I think even you would admit that it’s pretty special (and I know you have no love of this area).

I haven’t yet met anyone that didn’t like the development. I guess it’s not for everyone but so far everyone has been impressed with how the developers designed this community. I really believe it’s a special place here in San Diego.

I totally agree with you that not everyone can afford the $900 – $1,000 a month HOA/Mello Roos payments and it’s not for everyone. But for those that can afford it, it’s really an amazing lifestyle out here.

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=earlyretirement]…You just have to remember BG that there are a lot of people that wouldn’t accept to live in certain parts of San Diego even if you gave them a free house. They would much rather live where they do paying a mortgage vs. taking a perfectly fine house in an area like Chula Vista. In fact, I’m one of those people. Even if you gave me the option of a FREE perfectly fine house in Chula Vista and promise to pay all property taxes…. I’d opt not to take it and pay a mortgage instead along with any applicable taxes. Nothing wrong with that…it’s just the way it is.[/quote]

ER, I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but about 5/8 of Chula Vista’s residential property owners pay MR. It WAS more like 2/3 of the population as recent as 2006, but since May 2007, ChulaV subdivisions have been retiring their MR bonds one by one.

FYI, developers within the City of Chula Vista (such as Lane Kuhn, Fieldstone and McMillin) DEBUTED the use of MR bonds in San Diego County. The next city to adopt them was Poway. The earlest ChulaV subdivisions built with 20 and 30 yr MR bonds with the first phases being sold in May 1987 (3 subd in Eastlake Shores) and 1991 (2 subd in Eastlake Hills) which have already paid off their MR bonds. RDR-II paid off their (20 yr) street bonds in 2012.

Having worked alongside several of these owners from the beginning, I’ve seen it all, first hand. The monthly HOA struggles, the HUGE property tax impounds, etc. A few of them hung in there and made it through to the retirement of the bonds but I’m not sure if this makes their properties more “valuable” than similarly-situated ChulaV properties which do not lie in MR areas OR if their kids got a “better” education than they would have had they attended schools in non-MR areas of the same district.

So, in a nutshell, I “get” the concept of MR but don’t know/can’t measure its true long-term fiscal value to an affected homewoner.[/quote]

Wow. I knew that Chula Vista did have Mello Roos areas but I didn’t realize it was as much as 2/3 at one time.

That is very interesting. BG, to your knowledge, have any CFD areas ever had their bonds extended past their original pay off dates? Thanks for the information.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=earlyretirement]…BG, to your knowledge, has any CFD areas ever had their bonds extended past their original pay off dates?[/quote]

NO! But in 1987-1991, it was not common to use exotic vehicles and/or I/O loans to fund the MR construction bonds. In addition, the community got three fire stations and a YMCA out of the deal. All but one fire station was built in 1992 or prior. Building costs and materials have gone up exponentially since then.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=earlyretirement]…BG, to your knowledge, has any CFD areas ever had their bonds extended past their original pay off dates?[/quote]

NO! But in 1987-1991, it was not common to use exotic vehicles and/or I/O loans to fund the MR construction bonds. In addition, the community got three fire stations and a YMCA out of the deal. All but one fire station was built in 1992 or prior. Building costs and materials have gone up exponentially since then.[/quote]

Thanks. Yep. I agree. Not only have building costs and materials gone up but probably so has the propensity for fraud and abuse! LOL.

I appreciate all of this information. I totally agree with you that it will be interesting to read more stories about this Mello-Roos issue. Most people don’t seem to care about this at all as we both noted.

[ocrenter]

ER, Del Sur will go down in history as one of the most outrageous developments in regard to MR abuse. Compared to Del Sur, one will find a much better value and prestige with Santaluz, hands down. Here’s a perfect example:

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-130025885-8455_Ednalyn_Ln_San_Diego_CA_92127

THis 3600 sqft del sur home on just 6000 sqft lot is selling for $990k. The MR is $740/month, along with $167/month in HOA, resulting in $906/month in fees. Of course, there’s no gate, no paid cable, etc.

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-130024914-14477_Caminito_Lazanja_San_Diego_CA_92127

MEanwhile, you have this santaluz home at 3800 sqft on 8500 sqft lot asking for a mil, but with total MR/HOA at slightly under $800/month.

What is more outrageous is some of del sur’s homes even have 2 HOA fees.

THe lesson here is there’s your typical MR, then there’s del sur style MR. Outsiders that have never been to the area should take heed before making generalized statements.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=ocrenter]ER, Del Sur will go down in history as one of the most outrageous developments in regard to MR abuse. Compared to Del Sur, one will find a much better value and prestige with Santaluz, hands down. Here’s a perfect example:

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-130025885-8455_Ednalyn_Ln_San_Diego_CA_92127

THis 3600 sqft del sur home on just 6000 sqft lot is selling for $990k. The MR is $740/month, along with $167/month in HOA, resulting in $906/month in fees. Of course, there’s no gate, no paid cable, etc.

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-130024914-14477_Caminito_Lazanja_San_Diego_CA_92127

MEanwhile, you have this santaluz home at 3800 sqft on 8500 sqft lot asking for a mil, but with total MR/HOA at slightly under $800/month.

What is more outrageous is some of del sur’s homes even have 2 HOA fees.

THe lesson here is there’s your typical MR, then there’s del sur style MR. Outsiders that have never been to the area should take heed before making generalized statements.[/quote]

I totally agree with you OCR. We looked at some houses in Del Sur a few years ago but we just didn’t like the community as much. For the very high Mello Roos and HOA you don’t nearly what you get at other areas like Santaluz. I just couldn’t understand it other than people seem to be stretching to buy as it is and mostly priced out of some areas and they would rather have more bedrooms.

I saw that house in Santaluz that you listed a few years ago. They have been trying to sell it for a while. You will notice while other houses all around it are selling fairly quickly after going on the market, it’s just sitting there. Like look at this one:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14422-Caminito-Lazanja-92127/home/6462570

It went into escrow within 12 HOURS for what I heard is asking price. It’s just around the corner from the one you listed.

Or this one that is a few blocks away.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/7575-Delfina-92127/home/6482881

It went into escrow for what I’ve been told is ABOVE their asking price in just 4 days after listing it.

The one you listed is very nice and they did some nice upgrades in it. The biggest problem is that ultimately it’s only really 3 bedrooms. They say they converted the bedroom into an office but it’s positioned as such that it wouldn’t really be practical for a bedroom. Plus the “bedroom” that they made in their garage for their nanny is really poorly done, IMHO.

That’s why everything else is selling fairly quickly but I’m not sure they will have such an easy time. But the house is very nice other than the lack of bedrooms for that price.

But no doubt I wouldn’t be crazy in owning in Del Sur and paying those kinds of monthly fees. The look and feel of that community is much different for those kinds of fees vs. places like Santaluz, IMHO.

[ocrenter]

[quote=earlyretirement]

I totally agree with you OCR. We looked at some houses in Del Sur a few years ago but we just didn’t like the community as much. For the very high Mello Roos and HOA you don’t nearly what you get at other areas like Santaluz. I just couldn’t understand it other than people seem to be stretching to buy as it is and mostly priced out of some areas and they would rather have more bedrooms.

I saw that house in Santaluz that you listed a few years ago. They have been trying to sell it for a while. You will notice while other houses all around it are selling fairly quickly after going on the market, it’s just sitting there. Like look at this one:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/14422-Caminito-Lazanja-92127/home/6462570

It went into escrow within 12 HOURS for what I heard is asking price. It’s just around the corner from the one you listed.

Or this one that is a few blocks away.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/7575-Delfina-92127/home/6482881

It went into escrow for what I’ve been told is ABOVE their asking price in just 4 days after listing it.

The one you listed is very nice and they did some nice upgrades in it. The biggest problem is that ultimately it’s only really 3 bedrooms. They say they converted the bedroom into an office but it’s positioned as such that it wouldn’t really be practical for a bedroom. Plus the “bedroom” that they made in their garage for their nanny is really poorly done, IMHO.

That’s why everything else is selling fairly quickly but I’m not sure they will have such an easy time. But the house is very nice other than the lack of bedrooms for that price.

But no doubt I wouldn’t be crazy in owning in Del Sur and paying those kinds of monthly fees. The look and feel of that community is much different for those kinds of fees vs. places like Santaluz, IMHO.[/quote]

Agree, with such low inventory, if it isn’t the price, then something else is up with the property for it to sit in this market.

Del sur truly does have some very worrisome combo. The smaller condos/attached homes are priced at a price point that draw in dual income earners that likely have a tight budget, but they are then hit with high priced MR/HOA. I do agree with BG this is the perfect scenario for creation of the chronic paycheck to paycheck barely above water struggle that would lead to mass default if the economy experience another crash.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=ocrenter]

Agree, with such low inventory, if it isn’t the price, then something else is up with the property for it to sit in this market.

Del sur truly does have some very worrisome combo. The smaller condos/attached homes are priced at a price point that draw in dual income earners that likely have a tight budget, but they are then hit with high priced MR/HOA. I do agree with BG this is the perfect scenario for creation of the chronic paycheck to paycheck barely above water struggle that would lead to mass default if the economy experience another crash.[/quote]

Exactly. With the extremely low inventory, owners need to figure out if all the other houses around them are selling very quickly and theirs isn’t then something is wrong with that picture.

Yes, BG makes some good points about this ‘perfect storm’ scenario. In fact, I’ve seen it. There are some people that scape everything they have for the down payment and even after a year can’t even furnish their home! I met such a guy there. It seems crazy to me you’d finally buy a house but blow every last cent on the down payment in this competitive environment and not even be able to furnish your house! But I met a guy in Del Sur that falls in that category.

I also had some friends that formally lived in San Diego in this SAME scenario where they either lost a job or their spouse lost a job and they simply couldn’t afford their house/lifestyle even with it only being a few months!

Strange phenomenon here with people that buy $700,000 to $800,000+ houses here that are almost living paycheck to paycheck or that have major life events (medical issues, job loss, etc) and can’t handle it. It’s a bit scary to me to see that. But the job market here in San Diego is MUCH different vs. lots of city where someone can easily find another high paying job. That isn’t the case here in SD with the “sunshine tax”.

[earlyretirement]

For anyone following this Mello Roos topic on KPBS you might find these links interesting.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/aug/19/poway-school-district-mello-roos-tax-machine/#c23595

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/aug/20/poway-parents-want-answers-about-their-mello-roos-/

It sounds like Mello Roos funds are CLEARLY being misused. Some of these things are shocking and it sounds like illegal. 200 bank accounts? There doesn’t sound like there is any oversight at all.

This is why I pre-paid off my Mello Roos taxes off early.

[Author]

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