[OT] WSJ: “Why Chinese Mothers are Superior”

[davelj]

I wouldn’t have put it exactly how he did, but I don’t think this guy’s too far off:

http://paper-money.blogspot.com/2011/01/chinese-mother-fubar.html

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=briansd1][quote=sdduuuude]I’m going to hire the guy who learned how to be social, friendly, persuasive, tactful, creative, etc. [/quote]

You make a good point. But our world is becoming a lot more objective in the sense that we want to see certifiable results and hard numbers.

How do you know that a person is creative and a good manager just looking at the resume and talking to that person for 1/2 hour? What are the objective criteria for your decision? And how do you justify hiring a 3.5 GPA over a 4.0 GPA?

And how do truly creative students with bad math skills and low GPAs enter the best universities? They can’t.

That facts are that test scores and published results are what count most. That’s why the houses in neighborhoods with the highest API scores are worth more money.

You can argue that students can succeed going to Clairemont high school all you want (and I would agree with you), but nobody will listen to you.[/quote]

I call sheniganns on both accounts.

My uncle was a Plant Manager for Motorola. He ran 147 acre facility in Mesa Az that no longer exist. He made it a point of hiring 3.0 GPAs over 4.0 everytime and NEVER just interviewed someone for a half an hour. This doesn’t happen in our field. I have spent as many as 12 hours interviewing for a upper echlon position. Anyway, in his many years of experience he found the following and made damn sure I knew this before I graduated.

1. 3.0 worked at thier job and played with things rather than just sit around and theorized

2. 4.0 wanted more money because they believe better grades warranted such as opposed to a stronger work ethic outside of academics

3. The 3.0s usually had better social skills which was a VERY necessary part of the job due to the fact the engineer would have to interface with anyone from a line work with high school education to the VP of Engineering in for a plant visit

4. Race was of no concern but he made sure that every team was well balanced after they were hired. He did not allow racial cliques in his work enviorment this lead to better team work and social skills

Of course these were his theories but they were the result of many years of observation in a real world envoriment.

So in this particular case 3.0s met the requirements better than the 4.0s. This is probably not the same case for working at Bell Labs or JPL but at the end of the day who employees more workers?

Secondy you cite that students coming out of CHS couldn’t possilable be as succesful as some of thier stronger school counterparts. Again Sheniganns… I went to school with a unique set of guys. Basically… We were all high school fvck ups. Exception being two brothers that came from a poor nieghborhood as immigrants with superior secondary backgrounds. Many of my friends graduated in Tau Beta Pi or Eta Kappa Gnu. These same guys did not even have High School diplomas or GEDs. I barely graduated myself but they went on to become leaders in thier respected fields. Why? Because they had strong work ethic and good social skills. We also graduate from a Top 30 Engineerig school. How? We snuck in through the back door… Community College… But we got lucky there… We went to the 5th best CC for math in science in the nation.

So desire for something better trumps schooling and good neigborhoods everytime.

And have the ability to interact with people is key.

Now that I think of it our valdictorian, who was on my senior design team, was the last one to get a job because he had no socail skill… BTW he was a white dude.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=briansd1][quote=sdduuuude]I’m going to hire the guy who learned how to be social, friendly, persuasive, tactful, creative, etc. [/quote]

You make a good point. But our world is becoming a lot more objective in the sense that we want to see certifiable results and hard numbers.

How do you know that a person is creative and a good manager just looking at the resume and talking to that person for 1/2 hour? What are the objective criteria for your decision? And how do you justify hiring a 3.5 GPA over a 4.0 GPA?

And how do truly creative students with bad math skills and low GPAs enter the best universities? They can’t.

That facts are that test scores and published results are what count most. That’s why the houses in neighborhoods with the highest API scores are worth more money.

You can argue that students can succeed going to Clairemont high school all you want (and I would agree with you), but nobody will listen to you.[/quote]

I call sheniganns on both accounts.

My uncle was a Plant Manager for Motorola. He ran 147 acre facility in Mesa Az that no longer exist. He made it a point of hiring 3.0 GPAs over 4.0 everytime and NEVER just interviewed someone for a half an hour. This doesn’t happen in our field. I have spent as many as 12 hours interviewing for a upper echlon position. Anyway, in his many years of experience he found the following and made damn sure I knew this before I graduated.

1. 3.0 worked at thier job and played with things rather than just sit around and theorized

2. 4.0 wanted more money because they believe better grades warranted such as opposed to a stronger work ethic outside of academics

3. The 3.0s usually had better social skills which was a VERY necessary part of the job due to the fact the engineer would have to interface with anyone from a line work with high school education to the VP of Engineering in for a plant visit

4. Race was of no concern but he made sure that every team was well balanced after they were hired. He did not allow racial cliques in his work enviorment this lead to better team work and social skills

Of course these were his theories but they were the result of many years of observation in a real world envoriment.

So in this particular case 3.0s met the requirements better than the 4.0s. This is probably not the same case for working at Bell Labs or JPL but at the end of the day who employees more workers?

Secondy you cite that students coming out of CHS couldn’t possilable be as succesful as some of thier stronger school counterparts. Again Sheniganns… I went to school with a unique set of guys. Basically… We were all high school fvck ups. Exception being two brothers that came from a poor nieghborhood as immigrants with superior secondary backgrounds. Many of my friends graduated in Tau Beta Pi or Eta Kappa Gnu. These same guys did not even have High School diplomas or GEDs. I barely graduated myself but they went on to become leaders in thier respected fields. Why? Because they had strong work ethic and good social skills. We also graduate from a Top 30 Engineerig school. How? We snuck in through the back door… Community College… But we got lucky there… We went to the 5th best CC for math in science in the nation.

So desire for something better trumps schooling and good neigborhoods everytime.

And have the ability to interact with people is key.

Now that I think of it our valdictorian, who was on my senior design team, was the last one to get a job because he had no socail skill… BTW he was a white dude.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=briansd1][quote=sdduuuude]I’m going to hire the guy who learned how to be social, friendly, persuasive, tactful, creative, etc. [/quote]

You make a good point. But our world is becoming a lot more objective in the sense that we want to see certifiable results and hard numbers.

How do you know that a person is creative and a good manager just looking at the resume and talking to that person for 1/2 hour? What are the objective criteria for your decision? And how do you justify hiring a 3.5 GPA over a 4.0 GPA?

And how do truly creative students with bad math skills and low GPAs enter the best universities? They can’t.

That facts are that test scores and published results are what count most. That’s why the houses in neighborhoods with the highest API scores are worth more money.

You can argue that students can succeed going to Clairemont high school all you want (and I would agree with you), but nobody will listen to you.[/quote]

I call sheniganns on both accounts.

My uncle was a Plant Manager for Motorola. He ran 147 acre facility in Mesa Az that no longer exist. He made it a point of hiring 3.0 GPAs over 4.0 everytime and NEVER just interviewed someone for a half an hour. This doesn’t happen in our field. I have spent as many as 12 hours interviewing for a upper echlon position. Anyway, in his many years of experience he found the following and made damn sure I knew this before I graduated.

1. 3.0 worked at thier job and played with things rather than just sit around and theorized

2. 4.0 wanted more money because they believe better grades warranted such as opposed to a stronger work ethic outside of academics

3. The 3.0s usually had better social skills which was a VERY necessary part of the job due to the fact the engineer would have to interface with anyone from a line work with high school education to the VP of Engineering in for a plant visit

4. Race was of no concern but he made sure that every team was well balanced after they were hired. He did not allow racial cliques in his work enviorment this lead to better team work and social skills

Of course these were his theories but they were the result of many years of observation in a real world envoriment.

So in this particular case 3.0s met the requirements better than the 4.0s. This is probably not the same case for working at Bell Labs or JPL but at the end of the day who employees more workers?

Secondy you cite that students coming out of CHS couldn’t possilable be as succesful as some of thier stronger school counterparts. Again Sheniganns… I went to school with a unique set of guys. Basically… We were all high school fvck ups. Exception being two brothers that came from a poor nieghborhood as immigrants with superior secondary backgrounds. Many of my friends graduated in Tau Beta Pi or Eta Kappa Gnu. These same guys did not even have High School diplomas or GEDs. I barely graduated myself but they went on to become leaders in thier respected fields. Why? Because they had strong work ethic and good social skills. We also graduate from a Top 30 Engineerig school. How? We snuck in through the back door… Community College… But we got lucky there… We went to the 5th best CC for math in science in the nation.

So desire for something better trumps schooling and good neigborhoods everytime.

And have the ability to interact with people is key.

Now that I think of it our valdictorian, who was on my senior design team, was the last one to get a job because he had no socail skill… BTW he was a white dude.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=briansd1][quote=sdduuuude]I’m going to hire the guy who learned how to be social, friendly, persuasive, tactful, creative, etc. [/quote]

You make a good point. But our world is becoming a lot more objective in the sense that we want to see certifiable results and hard numbers.

How do you know that a person is creative and a good manager just looking at the resume and talking to that person for 1/2 hour? What are the objective criteria for your decision? And how do you justify hiring a 3.5 GPA over a 4.0 GPA?

And how do truly creative students with bad math skills and low GPAs enter the best universities? They can’t.

That facts are that test scores and published results are what count most. That’s why the houses in neighborhoods with the highest API scores are worth more money.

You can argue that students can succeed going to Clairemont high school all you want (and I would agree with you), but nobody will listen to you.[/quote]

I call sheniganns on both accounts.

My uncle was a Plant Manager for Motorola. He ran 147 acre facility in Mesa Az that no longer exist. He made it a point of hiring 3.0 GPAs over 4.0 everytime and NEVER just interviewed someone for a half an hour. This doesn’t happen in our field. I have spent as many as 12 hours interviewing for a upper echlon position. Anyway, in his many years of experience he found the following and made damn sure I knew this before I graduated.

1. 3.0 worked at thier job and played with things rather than just sit around and theorized

2. 4.0 wanted more money because they believe better grades warranted such as opposed to a stronger work ethic outside of academics

3. The 3.0s usually had better social skills which was a VERY necessary part of the job due to the fact the engineer would have to interface with anyone from a line work with high school education to the VP of Engineering in for a plant visit

4. Race was of no concern but he made sure that every team was well balanced after they were hired. He did not allow racial cliques in his work enviorment this lead to better team work and social skills

Of course these were his theories but they were the result of many years of observation in a real world envoriment.

So in this particular case 3.0s met the requirements better than the 4.0s. This is probably not the same case for working at Bell Labs or JPL but at the end of the day who employees more workers?

Secondy you cite that students coming out of CHS couldn’t possilable be as succesful as some of thier stronger school counterparts. Again Sheniganns… I went to school with a unique set of guys. Basically… We were all high school fvck ups. Exception being two brothers that came from a poor nieghborhood as immigrants with superior secondary backgrounds. Many of my friends graduated in Tau Beta Pi or Eta Kappa Gnu. These same guys did not even have High School diplomas or GEDs. I barely graduated myself but they went on to become leaders in thier respected fields. Why? Because they had strong work ethic and good social skills. We also graduate from a Top 30 Engineerig school. How? We snuck in through the back door… Community College… But we got lucky there… We went to the 5th best CC for math in science in the nation.

So desire for something better trumps schooling and good neigborhoods everytime.

And have the ability to interact with people is key.

Now that I think of it our valdictorian, who was on my senior design team, was the last one to get a job because he had no socail skill… BTW he was a white dude.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=briansd1][quote=sdduuuude]I’m going to hire the guy who learned how to be social, friendly, persuasive, tactful, creative, etc. [/quote]

You make a good point. But our world is becoming a lot more objective in the sense that we want to see certifiable results and hard numbers.

How do you know that a person is creative and a good manager just looking at the resume and talking to that person for 1/2 hour? What are the objective criteria for your decision? And how do you justify hiring a 3.5 GPA over a 4.0 GPA?

And how do truly creative students with bad math skills and low GPAs enter the best universities? They can’t.

That facts are that test scores and published results are what count most. That’s why the houses in neighborhoods with the highest API scores are worth more money.

You can argue that students can succeed going to Clairemont high school all you want (and I would agree with you), but nobody will listen to you.[/quote]

I call sheniganns on both accounts.

My uncle was a Plant Manager for Motorola. He ran 147 acre facility in Mesa Az that no longer exist. He made it a point of hiring 3.0 GPAs over 4.0 everytime and NEVER just interviewed someone for a half an hour. This doesn’t happen in our field. I have spent as many as 12 hours interviewing for a upper echlon position. Anyway, in his many years of experience he found the following and made damn sure I knew this before I graduated.

1. 3.0 worked at thier job and played with things rather than just sit around and theorized

2. 4.0 wanted more money because they believe better grades warranted such as opposed to a stronger work ethic outside of academics

3. The 3.0s usually had better social skills which was a VERY necessary part of the job due to the fact the engineer would have to interface with anyone from a line work with high school education to the VP of Engineering in for a plant visit

4. Race was of no concern but he made sure that every team was well balanced after they were hired. He did not allow racial cliques in his work enviorment this lead to better team work and social skills

Of course these were his theories but they were the result of many years of observation in a real world envoriment.

So in this particular case 3.0s met the requirements better than the 4.0s. This is probably not the same case for working at Bell Labs or JPL but at the end of the day who employees more workers?

Secondy you cite that students coming out of CHS couldn’t possilable be as succesful as some of thier stronger school counterparts. Again Sheniganns… I went to school with a unique set of guys. Basically… We were all high school fvck ups. Exception being two brothers that came from a poor nieghborhood as immigrants with superior secondary backgrounds. Many of my friends graduated in Tau Beta Pi or Eta Kappa Gnu. These same guys did not even have High School diplomas or GEDs. I barely graduated myself but they went on to become leaders in thier respected fields. Why? Because they had strong work ethic and good social skills. We also graduate from a Top 30 Engineerig school. How? We snuck in through the back door… Community College… But we got lucky there… We went to the 5th best CC for math in science in the nation.

So desire for something better trumps schooling and good neigborhoods everytime.

And have the ability to interact with people is key.

Now that I think of it our valdictorian, who was on my senior design team, was the last one to get a job because he had no socail skill… BTW he was a white dude.

CE

[briansd1]

davelj, I agree with you as a general approach to life.

But there’s something to be said about rigor. Some hard work can’t hurt. As I said before, it’s insurance against failure.

It’s interesting that old fashioned American education emphasized hard work. The kids who would not amount to much where told to shape up quickly. Kids addressed their parents and neighbors as Sir and ‘Maam.

Now, parents feel like they need to be friends to their kids and are afraid to hurt their feelings.

[briansd1]

davelj, I agree with you as a general approach to life.

But there’s something to be said about rigor. Some hard work can’t hurt. As I said before, it’s insurance against failure.

It’s interesting that old fashioned American education emphasized hard work. The kids who would not amount to much where told to shape up quickly. Kids addressed their parents and neighbors as Sir and ‘Maam.

Now, parents feel like they need to be friends to their kids and are afraid to hurt their feelings.

[briansd1]

davelj, I agree with you as a general approach to life.

But there’s something to be said about rigor. Some hard work can’t hurt. As I said before, it’s insurance against failure.

It’s interesting that old fashioned American education emphasized hard work. The kids who would not amount to much where told to shape up quickly. Kids addressed their parents and neighbors as Sir and ‘Maam.

Now, parents feel like they need to be friends to their kids and are afraid to hurt their feelings.

[briansd1]

davelj, I agree with you as a general approach to life.

But there’s something to be said about rigor. Some hard work can’t hurt. As I said before, it’s insurance against failure.

It’s interesting that old fashioned American education emphasized hard work. The kids who would not amount to much where told to shape up quickly. Kids addressed their parents and neighbors as Sir and ‘Maam.

Now, parents feel like they need to be friends to their kids and are afraid to hurt their feelings.

[briansd1]

davelj, I agree with you as a general approach to life.

But there’s something to be said about rigor. Some hard work can’t hurt. As I said before, it’s insurance against failure.

It’s interesting that old fashioned American education emphasized hard work. The kids who would not amount to much where told to shape up quickly. Kids addressed their parents and neighbors as Sir and ‘Maam.

Now, parents feel like they need to be friends to their kids and are afraid to hurt their feelings.

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=flu]I think one perhaps different is that stuff you see probably at a economic level in some families here, I think among asians probably happen at a lower economic levels.[/quote]

Bingo. I recently went to a barbershop with my son and a nice asian lady cut his hair. She asked him which school he went to. As soon as he told her, she replied – “good school, xyz API”!

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=flu]I think one perhaps different is that stuff you see probably at a economic level in some families here, I think among asians probably happen at a lower economic levels.[/quote]

Bingo. I recently went to a barbershop with my son and a nice asian lady cut his hair. She asked him which school he went to. As soon as he told her, she replied – “good school, xyz API”!

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=flu]I think one perhaps different is that stuff you see probably at a economic level in some families here, I think among asians probably happen at a lower economic levels.[/quote]

Bingo. I recently went to a barbershop with my son and a nice asian lady cut his hair. She asked him which school he went to. As soon as he told her, she replied – “good school, xyz API”!

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=flu]I think one perhaps different is that stuff you see probably at a economic level in some families here, I think among asians probably happen at a lower economic levels.[/quote]

Bingo. I recently went to a barbershop with my son and a nice asian lady cut his hair. She asked him which school he went to. As soon as he told her, she replied – “good school, xyz API”!

[Author]

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