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October 19, 2014 at 9:17 PM #779002October 20, 2014 at 2:58 AM #779033
CA renter
ParticipantMaybe they look unattractive to you, but their friends might think that whatever they’ve done (new hair, makeup, etc.) makes them look good; or, at least, better than they looked before.
But do women have that much of their self-worth tied up in their appearance? You bet! A lot of them, anyway. After all, females are usually taught from birth that their youth and beauty are their most valuable assets, even though many of their parents don’t even realize it. And even if their parents do everything in their power to avoid doing this, once the kids start living in the real world, they will soon be subjected to these standards.
Like we’ve seen in other threads right here on Piggington, people will criticize women for not looking good or for being too old. You don’t hear that type of criticism leveled at men nearly as often as you do with women.
Think about all of the criticism that Hillary Clinton has had to deal with regarding her appearance. People have been relentless over the years in making fun of her clothing, her “cankles,” and her “lack of femininity.” Whether one likes her or not, there is no question about her superior intellect, education, and experience; but she had to deal with people focusing more on her looks, her marriage, her “wanting to be a man,” etc., instead.
Which male politicians have had to deal with crap like this?
http://www.ibtimes.com/tim-gunn-mocks-hillary-clintons-pantsuits-photos-839561
Sarah Palin had to deal with the same thing, as does every other woman out there, no matter her professional experience or intellect (not saying Sarah Palin is high on the list here, but many people focused more on her looks than on anything else).
And women are every bit as guilty of subjecting other women to this as men are, if not more so.
Do some women try to make others feel better about themselves? Yes, they do. Because they — the women who desire to be kind and supportive — understand the vicious nastiness that women have to deal with regarding their appearance. So we, and I’m including myself in this group, will point out what we feel are a woman’s best attributes to let her know that she is beautiful, inside and out.
FWIW, I’m not lying when I compliment other women (or men). I think that all people are beautiful, each in his/her own way. We don’t all need to look like some stereotype in order to be attractive and appealing to others.
October 20, 2014 at 3:14 AM #779034njtosd
Participant[quote=CA renter]
FWIW, I’m not lying when I compliment other women (or men). I think that all people are beautiful, each in his/her own way. We don’t all need to look like some stereotype in order to be attractive and appealing to others.[/quote]
To quote one of my favorite characters, Syndrome, “When everyone is super, nobody will be.” Beauty is a relative term – to say everyone is beautiful makes it meaningless. You may like everyone, you may find them to be valuable and meritorious, or you may say that physical beauty is unimportant to you in terms of other people’s worth. All of that would be fine. But everyone isn’t beautiful, or smart or funny.
And although I think your motives are genuine, there are a lot of people out there who say everything is great (for example, local school principle who uses the word “amazing” 100 times/parent meeting) to prove the depths of their own enthusiasm, rather than the merit of the object of their compliments.
October 20, 2014 at 11:30 AM #779046NicMM
Participant[quote=CA renter]Maybe they look unattractive to you, but their friends might think that whatever they’ve done (new hair, makeup, etc.) makes them look good; or, at least, better than they looked before.
But do women have that much of their self-worth tied up in their appearance? You bet! A lot of them, anyway. After all, females are usually taught from birth that their youth and beauty are their most valuable assets, even though many of their parents don’t even realize it. And even if their parents do everything in their power to avoid doing this, once the kids start living in the real world, they will soon be subjected to these standards.
Like we’ve seen in other threads right here on Piggington, people will criticize women for not looking good or for being too old. You don’t hear that type of criticism leveled at men nearly as often as you do with women.
Think about all of the criticism that Hillary Clinton has had to deal with regarding her appearance. People have been relentless over the years in making fun of her clothing, her “cankles,” and her “lack of femininity.” Whether one likes her or not, there is no question about her superior intellect, education, and experience; but she had to deal with people focusing more on her looks, her marriage, her “wanting to be a man,” etc., instead.
Which male politicians have had to deal with crap like this?
http://www.ibtimes.com/tim-gunn-mocks-hillary-clintons-pantsuits-photos-839561
Sarah Palin had to deal with the same thing, as does every other woman out there, no matter her professional experience or intellect (not saying Sarah Palin is high on the list here, but many people focused more on her looks than on anything else).
And women are every bit as guilty of subjecting other women to this as men are, if not more so.
Do some women try to make others feel better about themselves? Yes, they do. Because they — the women who desire to be kind and supportive — understand the vicious nastiness that women have to deal with regarding their appearance. So we, and I’m including myself in this group, will point out what we feel are a woman’s best attributes to let her know that she is beautiful, inside and out.
FWIW, I’m not lying when I compliment other women (or men). I think that all people are beautiful, each in his/her own way. We don’t all need to look like some stereotype in order to be attractive and appealing to others.[/quote]
CA Renter, you nailed it. That’s what I wanted to express but hard to put the words together for. I am a woman of an intellectual type. The way that my parents raised me up was to focus my skills and capabilities and ignore my appearance. I used to feel embarrassed when receiving compliments on my look and used to not give compliments to the looks of my girl friends. That gave me a disadvantage on building relationships with my friends. As I grew older, I started to understand the beautiful look of a person actually IS a reflection of some internal quality of her (especially for an adult). It requires lots of knowledge and lots of work and persistency to achieve and maintain that, same as to be proficiency to any skill.
Therefore, a sincere praise to the look of a friend is as important as a sincere praise of her work, skills, quality… etc. It is a way to show support.
Now I give lots of compliment and do lots of Facebook Likes to my friends, and receive lots back as well. Those small things make my days happier.
NicMM
October 20, 2014 at 11:35 AM #779047Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=CA renter]
FWIW, I’m not lying when I compliment other women (or men). I think that all people are beautiful, each in his/her own way. We don’t all need to look like some stereotype in order to be attractive and appealing to others.[/quote]
To quote one of my favorite characters, Syndrome, “When everyone is super, nobody will be.” Beauty is a relative term – to say everyone is beautiful makes it meaningless. You may like everyone, you may find them to be valuable and meritorious, or you may say that physical beauty is unimportant to you in terms of other people’s worth. All of that would be fine. But everyone isn’t beautiful, or smart or funny.
And although I think your motives are genuine, there are a lot of people out there who say everything is great (for example, local school principle who uses the word “amazing” 100 times/parent meeting) to prove the depths of their own enthusiasm, rather than the merit of the object of their compliments.[/quote]
njtosd, complimenting a friend is not like granting a trophy to the winner of a competition. It is sad to think that way.
NicMM
October 20, 2014 at 12:03 PM #779050sdduuuude
ParticipantI’m not on facebook. The whole idea of it seems odd, especially when I can put anything I want online on a web site if I have to.
However, I’m not sure that the implication of “people post pictures of themselves and other people say they look beautiful” is that their self worth is tied up in their appearance.
My thought is this. If someone posts their picture on facebook, nobody is going to say “wow, you look intelligent” or “you look like you have good values.”
Furthermore, would you really expect anyone to post “Wow, you have really let yourself go. Ever hear of a makeover ?”
From a statistical sampling point of view, this is a biased sample, not worth drawing conclusions from.
This isn’t to say that Facebookers aren’t fishing for compliments.
October 20, 2014 at 1:24 PM #779055zk
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]I’m not on facebook. The whole idea of it seems odd, especially when I can put anything I want online on a web site if I have to.
However, I’m not sure that the implication of “people post pictures of themselves and other people say they look beautiful” is that their self worth is tied up in their appearance.
My thought is this. If someone posts their picture on facebook, nobody is going to say “wow, you look intelligent” or “you look like you have good values.”
Furthermore, would you really expect anyone to post “Wow, you have really let yourself go. Ever hear of a makeover ?”
From a statistical sampling point of view, this is a biased sample, not worth drawing conclusions from.
This isn’t to say that Facebookers aren’t fishing for compliments.[/quote]
Two thoughts: There are plenty of other compliments to give. You’re a giver, you’re sweet, you make me laugh, you care, etc. And you see those occasionally. But add up all non-beauty compliments and they don’t number a tenth of beauty compliments.
Also, you rarely see men get or even give compliments (compared to women). Why is that?
October 20, 2014 at 1:26 PM #779056Participant[quote=NicMM]
CA Renter, you nailed it. That’s what I wanted to express but hard to put the words together for. I am a woman of an intellectual type. The way that my parents raised me up was to focus my skills and capabilities and ignore my appearance. I used to feel embarrassed when receiving compliments on my look and used to not give compliments to the looks of my girl friends. That gave me a disadvantage on building relationships with my friends. As I grew older, I started to understand the beautiful look of a person actually IS a reflection of some internal quality of her (especially for an adult). It requires lots of knowledge and lots of work and persistency to achieve and maintain that, same as to be proficiency to any skill.Therefore, a sincere praise to the look of a friend is as important as a sincere praise of her work, skills, quality… etc. It is a way to show support.
Now I give lots of compliment and do lots of Facebook Likes to my friends, and receive lots back as well. Those small things make my days happier.
NicMM[/quote]
Seems to me that took a lot of contorting to make it sound like superficial compliments aren’t really superficial.
Your comment that “That gave me a disadvantage on building relationships with my friends” says a lot to me. People like friends that make them feel good. And, in our society, apparently, if you’re not complimenting your women friends on their looks, you’re not making them feel good. In general.
Which is what I’m taking away from this thread so far. Our society really is very superficial; it really does value appearance (especially women’s) vastly.
I suppose it’s human nature. It’s probably been this way in most or all societies throughout history. I guess I’m a bit foolish for having, for all these years, thought we’d advanced past that. I mean, we grew up hearing that what’s inside a woman is more important than her superficial appearance. But I guess for most people it didn’t sink in. Either that or our natural programming encourages superficiality, and our artificial programming isn’t enough to overcome that.
October 20, 2014 at 2:04 PM #779062Participant[quote=zk][quote=sdduuuude]I’m not on facebook. The whole idea of it seems odd, especially when I can put anything I want online on a web site if I have to.
However, I’m not sure that the implication of “people post pictures of themselves and other people say they look beautiful” is that their self worth is tied up in their appearance.
My thought is this. If someone posts their picture on facebook, nobody is going to say “wow, you look intelligent” or “you look like you have good values.”
Furthermore, would you really expect anyone to post “Wow, you have really let yourself go. Ever hear of a makeover ?”
From a statistical sampling point of view, this is a biased sample, not worth drawing conclusions from.
This isn’t to say that Facebookers aren’t fishing for compliments.[/quote]
Two thoughts: There are plenty of other compliments to give. You’re a giver, you’re sweet, you make me laugh, you care, etc. And you see those occasionally. But add up all non-beauty compliments and they don’t number a tenth of beauty compliments.
Also, you rarely see men get or even give compliments (compared to women). Why is that?[/quote]
There are many compliments to give, but my point is that none of those are prompted by a picture which gives only visual information about the subject.
If I see a photo of someone I don’t know, I might think “nice shirt” or “pretty girl” but never “nice personality” simply because the photo doesn’t prompt anything other than visual thoughts or give me any information that might lead me to a conclusion about anything other than physical appearance.
This is why they don’t number a tenth of beauty compliments.
If someone posted a political essay or tweeted that they had volunteered at a charity today, then received compliments such as “wow, you are pretty” then you’d really be onto something.
October 20, 2014 at 2:20 PM #779063Participant[quote=NicMM]
njtosd, complimenting a friend is not like granting a trophy to the winner of a competition. It is sad to think that way.NicMM[/quote]
I think another poster used the word “contorted” with respect to your analysis, so I won’t bother. I don’t choose or maintain friendships based on how people look. I don’t really comment much on people’s appearance because it doesn’t make a big difference to me. And I don’t tell people they are pretty, or great at kayaking, or anything else just to make them feel good. Do I mention it sometimes? Absolutely. Do I think it should matter a lot? No. What’s sad is to put that much importance on appearance, especially at the age of most on the people on this board (and Facebook).
October 20, 2014 at 3:36 PM #779064all
Participantzk, I think you look very pretty in your facebook picture.
Edit: Also, you make me laugh.
October 20, 2014 at 4:29 PM #779068Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=NicMM]
njtosd, complimenting a friend is not like granting a trophy to the winner of a competition. It is sad to think that way.NicMM[/quote]
I think another poster used the word “contorted” with respect to your analysis, so I won’t bother. I don’t choose or maintain friendships based on how people look. I don’t really comment much on people’s appearance because it doesn’t make a big difference to me. And I don’t tell people they are pretty, or great at kayaking, or anything else just to make them feel good. Do I mention it sometimes? Absolutely. Do I think it should matter a lot? No. What’s sad is to put that much importance on appearance, especially at the age of most on the people on this board (and Facebook).[/quote]
It’s not that people are putting such an emphasis on looks. When people genuinely like someone and want to encourage and uplift them, they will often compliment them about many things, and looks might be one of those things. Is that a bad thing?
FWIW, I am rarely on FB, but on the few occasions when I post/read, the vast majority of my compliments are regarding insightful posts, exceptional accomplishments, etc.
October 20, 2014 at 4:31 PM #779067Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=NicMM]
njtosd, complimenting a friend is not like granting a trophy to the winner of a competition. It is sad to think that way.NicMM[/quote]
I think another poster used the word “contorted” with respect to your analysis, so I won’t bother. I don’t choose or maintain friendships based on how people look. I don’t really comment much on people’s appearance because it doesn’t make a big difference to me. And I don’t tell people they are pretty, or great at kayaking, or anything else just to make them feel good. Do I mention it sometimes? Absolutely. Do I think it should matter a lot? No. What’s sad is to put that much importance on appearance, especially at the age of most on the people on this board (and Facebook).[/quote]
It’s not contorted.
And here’s what I had said in my previous post…
[quote=CA renter]
FWIW, I’m not lying when I compliment other women (or men). I think that all people are beautiful, each in his/her own way. We don’t all need to look like some stereotype in order to be attractive and appealing to others.[/quote]
To which you responded…
[quote=njtosd]Beauty is a relative term – to say everyone is beautiful makes it meaningless.[/quote]
Saying, “people are all beautiful, each in his/her own way,” is not the same as saying that everyone is universally and equally beautiful. Some of us are genuinely able to see beauty in many different ways. Though I would have to ammend my comment to say that nearly all people are beautiful in their own way, as there are a few people in this world who truly are not beautiful in any way (especially on the inside)…I just try to avoid those people at all costs.
You might not be the type of person who likes to compliment others, whether on looks or anything else. But that doesn’t mean that the people who do so are being disingenuous or “trying to prove the depths of their own enthusiasm.” I think you’re being a bit too cynical about the motivations of other people.
For the record, the definition of beauty:
beauty
[byoo-tee]Synonyms
Examples
Word Originnoun, plural beauties.
1.
the quality present in a thing or person that gives intense pleasure or deep satisfaction to the mind, whether arising from sensory manifestations (as shape, color, sound, etc.), a meaningful design or pattern, or something else (as a personality in which high spiritual qualities are manifest).http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/beauty
It’s not superlative or comparative; it’s not even relative to many people. A person can look at a tree or a butterfly or a cloud and think that it is beautiful without having to compare it to anything else. Some people derive pleasure from many things in life, and they might consider those things to be “beautiful.” Beauty is subjective, though, and some are clearly not able to see the beauty in most things. I think that’s sad.
October 20, 2014 at 4:33 PM #779070Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
There are many compliments to give, but my point is that none of those are prompted by a picture which gives only visual information about the subject.If I see a photo of someone I don’t know, I might think “nice shirt” or “pretty girl” but never “nice personality” simply because the photo doesn’t prompt anything other than visual thoughts or give me any information that might lead me to a conclusion about anything other than physical appearance.
This is why they don’t number a tenth of beauty compliments.
If someone posted a political essay or tweeted that they had volunteered at a charity today, then received compliments such as “wow, you are pretty” then you’d really be onto something.[/quote]
And I think that sdduuuude nails it here.
October 20, 2014 at 4:41 PM #779071Participant[quote=zk]
Two thoughts: There are plenty of other compliments to give. You’re a giver, you’re sweet, you make me laugh, you care, etc. And you see those occasionally. But add up all non-beauty compliments and they don’t number a tenth of beauty compliments.
Also, you rarely see men get or even give compliments (compared to women). Why is that?[/quote]
My guess would be that the women who compliment another woman’s looks will also be generous with compliments about other things, as well.
Some interesting stuff on Wikipedia about research that has been done on the gender and cultural differences regarding compliments…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complimentary_language_and_gender
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And I *wish* that we could move beyond superficial appearance! But look at the comments from some of the Piggs (a more intellectual group, in general) about how a woman’s appearance is very important to them.
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