OT: What’s the deal with NPR?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CA renter]

The VOTERS determine who takes political office, not the unions. I can assure you that there are a number of politicians who do not feel at all like they are “on the same side of the table” as the rank-and-file union members.

I’ve said it over and over before, but unions have been making concessions for YEARS now (decades) because they were NOT “on the same side of the table” as those with whom they are negotiating. Most public employees no longer get retirement healthcare. Most of them pay more for their healthcare plans than their counterparts did 20+ years ago. In recent years, many of them have taken pay cuts and increased employee contribution amounts to their healthcare and pension plans. And all of this was happening even before all the anti-union hysteria the MSM is shoving down our throats.

The politicians might not like to tick off the unions, but they certainly don’t want to tick off the voters, either. They have to walk a fine line. Needless to say, if enough voters determine that they don’t like what the politicians are doing, they will be voted out. That’s not at all being “on the same side of the table” as the unions.[/quote]

CAR: I’m sorry, but in California that simply isn’t true. The unions, from CCPOA (California Correctional Peace Officers Assn) to CTA (California Teacher’s Assn), wield tremendous influence and control large voting blocs. They are vocal, as Dave pointed out, plus tremendously well-organized and well-financed.

To say that the unions have been making concessions is simply not true in California. To the contrary, they are seeing ever larger increases in salaries and benefits packages, as well as engaging in neat little tricks like pension “spiking”, whereby they boost their pensions by padding their salaries in their final year or few final few years.

Below are references to this practice, along with the $500Bn pension “time bomb” (unfunded liability), along with the practice of pension spiking and the average cost of a California corrections officer.

California’s $500Bn Pension “time bomb” (LA Times):
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/06/opinion/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06

Pension “spiking” (from Calpensions):
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/06/opinion/la-oe-crane6-2010apr06

Cost of California corrections officers:
http://www.ehow.com/info_7760526_do-californias-correctional-officers-earn.html
(note that, on average, they make nearly $24k more, per year, ($67k versus $42k), than their counterparts in other states, which is why the cost per inmate is so high in California).

In this state, the politicians are absolutely sitting on the same side of the table as the unions and we can clearly see the result. To argue that concessions have been made is demonstrably false. The taxpayers of this state are getting hosed. Now, and in the future (through unaffordable and unsustainable guarantees).

[equalizer]

This may have been posted elsewhere, but it’s worth repeating about pension spiking. TG has correctly stated that salaries and benefits of peace/corrections officers/fireman is tiny portion of budget, but it is wrong on principle (think Javert in Les Misérables) if there are massive budget problems and fair market value of comparable jobs, say nuclear workers or front line soldiers, is lower.

Not to say that most aren’t tremendously loyal servants like Glenn Allen, the 61 year old L.A. firefighter with 36 years on the job who tragically died putting out a fire last month.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/19/local/la-me-0219-firefighter-20110219

“1 Billion DROP Salary Scandal: L.A. Cops, Firefighters Allowed to Double-Dip Into City Funds, Collect Pensions 5 Years Early”

It would be great if everyone in comparable position could have a DROP program. Warning: watching the video may produce strong reactions.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/lapd_drop_salaries_pensions.php

[equalizer]

This may have been posted elsewhere, but it’s worth repeating about pension spiking. TG has correctly stated that salaries and benefits of peace/corrections officers/fireman is tiny portion of budget, but it is wrong on principle (think Javert in Les Misérables) if there are massive budget problems and fair market value of comparable jobs, say nuclear workers or front line soldiers, is lower.

Not to say that most aren’t tremendously loyal servants like Glenn Allen, the 61 year old L.A. firefighter with 36 years on the job who tragically died putting out a fire last month.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/19/local/la-me-0219-firefighter-20110219

“1 Billion DROP Salary Scandal: L.A. Cops, Firefighters Allowed to Double-Dip Into City Funds, Collect Pensions 5 Years Early”

It would be great if everyone in comparable position could have a DROP program. Warning: watching the video may produce strong reactions.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/lapd_drop_salaries_pensions.php

[equalizer]

This may have been posted elsewhere, but it’s worth repeating about pension spiking. TG has correctly stated that salaries and benefits of peace/corrections officers/fireman is tiny portion of budget, but it is wrong on principle (think Javert in Les Misérables) if there are massive budget problems and fair market value of comparable jobs, say nuclear workers or front line soldiers, is lower.

Not to say that most aren’t tremendously loyal servants like Glenn Allen, the 61 year old L.A. firefighter with 36 years on the job who tragically died putting out a fire last month.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/19/local/la-me-0219-firefighter-20110219

“1 Billion DROP Salary Scandal: L.A. Cops, Firefighters Allowed to Double-Dip Into City Funds, Collect Pensions 5 Years Early”

It would be great if everyone in comparable position could have a DROP program. Warning: watching the video may produce strong reactions.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/lapd_drop_salaries_pensions.php

[equalizer]

This may have been posted elsewhere, but it’s worth repeating about pension spiking. TG has correctly stated that salaries and benefits of peace/corrections officers/fireman is tiny portion of budget, but it is wrong on principle (think Javert in Les Misérables) if there are massive budget problems and fair market value of comparable jobs, say nuclear workers or front line soldiers, is lower.

Not to say that most aren’t tremendously loyal servants like Glenn Allen, the 61 year old L.A. firefighter with 36 years on the job who tragically died putting out a fire last month.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/19/local/la-me-0219-firefighter-20110219

“1 Billion DROP Salary Scandal: L.A. Cops, Firefighters Allowed to Double-Dip Into City Funds, Collect Pensions 5 Years Early”

It would be great if everyone in comparable position could have a DROP program. Warning: watching the video may produce strong reactions.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/lapd_drop_salaries_pensions.php

[equalizer]

This may have been posted elsewhere, but it’s worth repeating about pension spiking. TG has correctly stated that salaries and benefits of peace/corrections officers/fireman is tiny portion of budget, but it is wrong on principle (think Javert in Les Misérables) if there are massive budget problems and fair market value of comparable jobs, say nuclear workers or front line soldiers, is lower.

Not to say that most aren’t tremendously loyal servants like Glenn Allen, the 61 year old L.A. firefighter with 36 years on the job who tragically died putting out a fire last month.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/19/local/la-me-0219-firefighter-20110219

“1 Billion DROP Salary Scandal: L.A. Cops, Firefighters Allowed to Double-Dip Into City Funds, Collect Pensions 5 Years Early”

It would be great if everyone in comparable position could have a DROP program. Warning: watching the video may produce strong reactions.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/03/lapd_drop_salaries_pensions.php

[equalizer]

[quote=davelj]I have no sympathy for people who think they’re being “forced” into debt because Muffy has to attend Amherst.)[/quote]

Oh sure, dumb down Miffy so you and Allan can keep winning every debate!

[equalizer]

[quote=davelj]I have no sympathy for people who think they’re being “forced” into debt because Muffy has to attend Amherst.)[/quote]

Oh sure, dumb down Miffy so you and Allan can keep winning every debate!

[equalizer]

[quote=davelj]I have no sympathy for people who think they’re being “forced” into debt because Muffy has to attend Amherst.)[/quote]

Oh sure, dumb down Miffy so you and Allan can keep winning every debate!

[equalizer]

[quote=davelj]I have no sympathy for people who think they’re being “forced” into debt because Muffy has to attend Amherst.)[/quote]

Oh sure, dumb down Miffy so you and Allan can keep winning every debate!

[equalizer]

[quote=davelj]I have no sympathy for people who think they’re being “forced” into debt because Muffy has to attend Amherst.)[/quote]

Oh sure, dumb down Miffy so you and Allan can keep winning every debate!

[CA renter]

Yes, they have been making concessions. I know this for a fact because I used to work for LAUSD, and they were making concessions in the mid-90s (lost retirement healthcare). I know many union members in different positions, departments, cities, etc., and almost all of them have been making concessions.

For more info:

From 2009:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0427.htm
…………..

The Colton City Council will be asked March 1 to ratify terms of a labor contract with police officers, apparently ending months of often bitter negotiations.

The Colton Police Officers Association issued a news release earlier this month announcing that its members had agreed to take 13 percent pay cuts “to avoid layoffs of police officers and staff.”

City Council members met in closed session Tuesday to finalize negotiations, but City Manager Rod Foster announced afterward that it would take time to prepare “all the necessary resolutions” for council approval.

He and council members thanked the police union for what Foster termed “significant concessions that their union membership approved by a very wide margin.”

http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_D_npolice20.27e2f89.html
…………….

Video regarding police officer concessions in Redding:

http://www.redding.com/videos/detail/union-concessions/
………………

More than three-quarters of SEIU Local 1000 employees who voted have ratified a labor agreement worked out with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, union officials said this afternoon.

“Still, the the deal angered some state workers. It accepts 12 unpaid days off over the next 12 months on top of the nine furlough days imposed on employees from August through October of this year. The contract also increases the percentage of wages that employees contribute to their retirement and sets lower pension benefit formulas for new hires.

http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/2010/11/seiu-ratifies-concessions-in-california-contract/
…………..

On December 14, teachers in California’s West Contra Costa Unified School District (WCCUSD) narrowly passed a contract that includes a pay freeze, larger class sizes and a sharp cut in health care benefits.

The WCCUSD includes several cities in the San Francisco Bay Area of California, including Richmond, Hercules, Pinole, El Cerrito, San Pablo and parts of El Sobrante and Kensington. The district had insisted on concessions to help close a deficit of about $16 million.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/dec2009/educ-d19.shtml
………………

A teachers union that has been reluctant to make concessions in the past gave big at the negotiating table this week – agreeing to pay cuts, higher medical co-pays, furlough days and the suspension of an annual bonus.

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/05/19/2760704/elk-grove.html
……………….

OCEANSIDE — Unions representing Oceanside Fire Department employees have agreed to concessions in hopes of saving three positions eliminated during recent budget cutbacks.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/oceanside/article_5ee4fed6-c668-57c7-94d2-57113d25646b.html
……………….

ESCONDIDO — For the first time in Escondido’s history, a labor union has agreed to forgo pension contributions made by the city.

The concession came from the Escondido Firefighters Association, whose 85 members will pay all pension contributions for this year and next, the duration of a new contract that the City Council approved this week. In addition, the union agreed to give up 46 of 138 hours of holiday pay.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/13/escondido-firefighters-union-oks-concessions/#
…………….

The Poway Unified teachers’ union became the second in the county to approve pay cuts in an effort to avoid layoffs, reported the Union-Tribune. The Poway Federation of Teachers agreed to a 2.7 percent pay cut in exchange for five fewer workdays over the next two years. About 69 percent of union members voted for the rollback.

http://sandiegonewsroom.com/news/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=63%3Aschool-districts&layout=blog&Itemid=90&limitstart=95&fontstyle=f-larger
………………….

Allan,

I could go on and on. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that unions have not made concessions. It’s been going on for a long, long time.

[CA renter]

Yes, they have been making concessions. I know this for a fact because I used to work for LAUSD, and they were making concessions in the mid-90s (lost retirement healthcare). I know many union members in different positions, departments, cities, etc., and almost all of them have been making concessions.

For more info:

From 2009:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0427.htm
…………..

The Colton City Council will be asked March 1 to ratify terms of a labor contract with police officers, apparently ending months of often bitter negotiations.

The Colton Police Officers Association issued a news release earlier this month announcing that its members had agreed to take 13 percent pay cuts “to avoid layoffs of police officers and staff.”

City Council members met in closed session Tuesday to finalize negotiations, but City Manager Rod Foster announced afterward that it would take time to prepare “all the necessary resolutions” for council approval.

He and council members thanked the police union for what Foster termed “significant concessions that their union membership approved by a very wide margin.”

http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_D_npolice20.27e2f89.html
…………….

Video regarding police officer concessions in Redding:

http://www.redding.com/videos/detail/union-concessions/
………………

More than three-quarters of SEIU Local 1000 employees who voted have ratified a labor agreement worked out with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, union officials said this afternoon.

“Still, the the deal angered some state workers. It accepts 12 unpaid days off over the next 12 months on top of the nine furlough days imposed on employees from August through October of this year. The contract also increases the percentage of wages that employees contribute to their retirement and sets lower pension benefit formulas for new hires.

http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/2010/11/seiu-ratifies-concessions-in-california-contract/
…………..

On December 14, teachers in California’s West Contra Costa Unified School District (WCCUSD) narrowly passed a contract that includes a pay freeze, larger class sizes and a sharp cut in health care benefits.

The WCCUSD includes several cities in the San Francisco Bay Area of California, including Richmond, Hercules, Pinole, El Cerrito, San Pablo and parts of El Sobrante and Kensington. The district had insisted on concessions to help close a deficit of about $16 million.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/dec2009/educ-d19.shtml
………………

A teachers union that has been reluctant to make concessions in the past gave big at the negotiating table this week – agreeing to pay cuts, higher medical co-pays, furlough days and the suspension of an annual bonus.

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/05/19/2760704/elk-grove.html
……………….

OCEANSIDE — Unions representing Oceanside Fire Department employees have agreed to concessions in hopes of saving three positions eliminated during recent budget cutbacks.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/oceanside/article_5ee4fed6-c668-57c7-94d2-57113d25646b.html
……………….

ESCONDIDO — For the first time in Escondido’s history, a labor union has agreed to forgo pension contributions made by the city.

The concession came from the Escondido Firefighters Association, whose 85 members will pay all pension contributions for this year and next, the duration of a new contract that the City Council approved this week. In addition, the union agreed to give up 46 of 138 hours of holiday pay.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/13/escondido-firefighters-union-oks-concessions/#
…………….

The Poway Unified teachers’ union became the second in the county to approve pay cuts in an effort to avoid layoffs, reported the Union-Tribune. The Poway Federation of Teachers agreed to a 2.7 percent pay cut in exchange for five fewer workdays over the next two years. About 69 percent of union members voted for the rollback.

http://sandiegonewsroom.com/news/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=63%3Aschool-districts&layout=blog&Itemid=90&limitstart=95&fontstyle=f-larger
………………….

Allan,

I could go on and on. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that unions have not made concessions. It’s been going on for a long, long time.

[CA renter]

Yes, they have been making concessions. I know this for a fact because I used to work for LAUSD, and they were making concessions in the mid-90s (lost retirement healthcare). I know many union members in different positions, departments, cities, etc., and almost all of them have been making concessions.

For more info:

From 2009:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0427.htm
…………..

The Colton City Council will be asked March 1 to ratify terms of a labor contract with police officers, apparently ending months of often bitter negotiations.

The Colton Police Officers Association issued a news release earlier this month announcing that its members had agreed to take 13 percent pay cuts “to avoid layoffs of police officers and staff.”

City Council members met in closed session Tuesday to finalize negotiations, but City Manager Rod Foster announced afterward that it would take time to prepare “all the necessary resolutions” for council approval.

He and council members thanked the police union for what Foster termed “significant concessions that their union membership approved by a very wide margin.”

http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_D_npolice20.27e2f89.html
…………….

Video regarding police officer concessions in Redding:

http://www.redding.com/videos/detail/union-concessions/
………………

More than three-quarters of SEIU Local 1000 employees who voted have ratified a labor agreement worked out with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, union officials said this afternoon.

“Still, the the deal angered some state workers. It accepts 12 unpaid days off over the next 12 months on top of the nine furlough days imposed on employees from August through October of this year. The contract also increases the percentage of wages that employees contribute to their retirement and sets lower pension benefit formulas for new hires.

http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/2010/11/seiu-ratifies-concessions-in-california-contract/
…………..

On December 14, teachers in California’s West Contra Costa Unified School District (WCCUSD) narrowly passed a contract that includes a pay freeze, larger class sizes and a sharp cut in health care benefits.

The WCCUSD includes several cities in the San Francisco Bay Area of California, including Richmond, Hercules, Pinole, El Cerrito, San Pablo and parts of El Sobrante and Kensington. The district had insisted on concessions to help close a deficit of about $16 million.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/dec2009/educ-d19.shtml
………………

A teachers union that has been reluctant to make concessions in the past gave big at the negotiating table this week – agreeing to pay cuts, higher medical co-pays, furlough days and the suspension of an annual bonus.

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/05/19/2760704/elk-grove.html
……………….

OCEANSIDE — Unions representing Oceanside Fire Department employees have agreed to concessions in hopes of saving three positions eliminated during recent budget cutbacks.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/oceanside/article_5ee4fed6-c668-57c7-94d2-57113d25646b.html
……………….

ESCONDIDO — For the first time in Escondido’s history, a labor union has agreed to forgo pension contributions made by the city.

The concession came from the Escondido Firefighters Association, whose 85 members will pay all pension contributions for this year and next, the duration of a new contract that the City Council approved this week. In addition, the union agreed to give up 46 of 138 hours of holiday pay.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/13/escondido-firefighters-union-oks-concessions/#
…………….

The Poway Unified teachers’ union became the second in the county to approve pay cuts in an effort to avoid layoffs, reported the Union-Tribune. The Poway Federation of Teachers agreed to a 2.7 percent pay cut in exchange for five fewer workdays over the next two years. About 69 percent of union members voted for the rollback.

http://sandiegonewsroom.com/news/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=63%3Aschool-districts&layout=blog&Itemid=90&limitstart=95&fontstyle=f-larger
………………….

Allan,

I could go on and on. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that unions have not made concessions. It’s been going on for a long, long time.

[CA renter]

Yes, they have been making concessions. I know this for a fact because I used to work for LAUSD, and they were making concessions in the mid-90s (lost retirement healthcare). I know many union members in different positions, departments, cities, etc., and almost all of them have been making concessions.

For more info:

From 2009:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0427.htm
…………..

The Colton City Council will be asked March 1 to ratify terms of a labor contract with police officers, apparently ending months of often bitter negotiations.

The Colton Police Officers Association issued a news release earlier this month announcing that its members had agreed to take 13 percent pay cuts “to avoid layoffs of police officers and staff.”

City Council members met in closed session Tuesday to finalize negotiations, but City Manager Rod Foster announced afterward that it would take time to prepare “all the necessary resolutions” for council approval.

He and council members thanked the police union for what Foster termed “significant concessions that their union membership approved by a very wide margin.”

http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_D_npolice20.27e2f89.html
…………….

Video regarding police officer concessions in Redding:

http://www.redding.com/videos/detail/union-concessions/
………………

More than three-quarters of SEIU Local 1000 employees who voted have ratified a labor agreement worked out with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, union officials said this afternoon.

“Still, the the deal angered some state workers. It accepts 12 unpaid days off over the next 12 months on top of the nine furlough days imposed on employees from August through October of this year. The contract also increases the percentage of wages that employees contribute to their retirement and sets lower pension benefit formulas for new hires.

http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/2010/11/seiu-ratifies-concessions-in-california-contract/
…………..

On December 14, teachers in California’s West Contra Costa Unified School District (WCCUSD) narrowly passed a contract that includes a pay freeze, larger class sizes and a sharp cut in health care benefits.

The WCCUSD includes several cities in the San Francisco Bay Area of California, including Richmond, Hercules, Pinole, El Cerrito, San Pablo and parts of El Sobrante and Kensington. The district had insisted on concessions to help close a deficit of about $16 million.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/dec2009/educ-d19.shtml
………………

A teachers union that has been reluctant to make concessions in the past gave big at the negotiating table this week – agreeing to pay cuts, higher medical co-pays, furlough days and the suspension of an annual bonus.

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/05/19/2760704/elk-grove.html
……………….

OCEANSIDE — Unions representing Oceanside Fire Department employees have agreed to concessions in hopes of saving three positions eliminated during recent budget cutbacks.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/oceanside/article_5ee4fed6-c668-57c7-94d2-57113d25646b.html
……………….

ESCONDIDO — For the first time in Escondido’s history, a labor union has agreed to forgo pension contributions made by the city.

The concession came from the Escondido Firefighters Association, whose 85 members will pay all pension contributions for this year and next, the duration of a new contract that the City Council approved this week. In addition, the union agreed to give up 46 of 138 hours of holiday pay.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/13/escondido-firefighters-union-oks-concessions/#
…………….

The Poway Unified teachers’ union became the second in the county to approve pay cuts in an effort to avoid layoffs, reported the Union-Tribune. The Poway Federation of Teachers agreed to a 2.7 percent pay cut in exchange for five fewer workdays over the next two years. About 69 percent of union members voted for the rollback.

http://sandiegonewsroom.com/news/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=63%3Aschool-districts&layout=blog&Itemid=90&limitstart=95&fontstyle=f-larger
………………….

Allan,

I could go on and on. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that unions have not made concessions. It’s been going on for a long, long time.

[Author]

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