OT: Skool tout

[an]

[quote=flu]Well in on honesty, imho “race” base performance these days is more of a myth than truth imho…
Imho, it has a lot more to do with social-economic environment/background than actual “race/ethnicity” in this modern world.

You take a bunch of upper-middle class educated people and stick them in one school district, doesn’t really matter what ethnicity they are. Chances are they all want the same thing (probably) and probably perform more or less the same…Maybe that’s what’s going on…Bahh, i don’t care… (for the last time)…[/quote]
I would have to disagree with this one. Here’s an example:
Hoover HS API:
Asian – 747

Torrey Pines HS API:
Hispanic – 745

This is comparing low income area vs upper middle class area. How can you explain the fact that Asian in low income areas like El Cajon getting similar API scores as Hispanics in an area like Carmel Valley?

[all]

[quote=AN] How can you explain the fact that Asian in low income areas like El Cajon getting similar API scores as Hispanics in an area like Carmel Valley?[/quote]
Clearly, Asians are smarter than Hispanics.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN][quote=poorgradstudent]The material covered in AP vs. non-AP Calculus isn’t that different, although in AP you might try to cram a couple topics into the last week or so if the class is behind schedule while non-AP might focus more on mastering what is possible and leaving it at that. [/quote]
It might be different now, but when I went to HS, 9th grade honor English covers the EXACT same material as regular 12th grade English. I was lazy in 12th grade and didn’t want to take AP English so i coasted with regular English. Turns out, I have the exact same teacher and reading the exactly the same book I did in 9th grade. So, needless to say, it was a super easy A, but back then, there was a HUGE differences between honor vs regular.[/quote]

since we are on a roll with racial stereotypes, you were lazy?!!! I seriously question your Asian credential! 😉

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN][quote=flu]Well in on honesty, imho “race” base performance these days is more of a myth than truth imho…
Imho, it has a lot more to do with social-economic environment/background than actual “race/ethnicity” in this modern world.

You take a bunch of upper-middle class educated people and stick them in one school district, doesn’t really matter what ethnicity they are. Chances are they all want the same thing (probably) and probably perform more or less the same…Maybe that’s what’s going on…Bahh, i don’t care… (for the last time)…[/quote]
I would have to disagree with this one. Here’s an example:
Hoover HS API:
Asian – 747

Torrey Pines HS API:
Hispanic – 745

This is comparing low income area vs upper middle class area. How can you explain the fact that Asian in low income areas like El Cajon getting similar API scores as Hispanics in an area like Carmel Valley?[/quote]

AN, Hoover HS is in SD, NOT El Cajon. And only parts of El Cajon 92020 and 92021 are “low income.” The rest of EC residents (incl those who reside in 92019) are MC and upper MC.

I’ve always maintained that certain HS’s in SD County “cater” to Asians, thus they excel when in classes full of Asians like themselves and taught by Asian teachers. I haven’t actually checked but given the ethnicity of most business owners/operators along El Cajon Blvd (Hoover’s attendance area), the Asian students at Hoover are most likely Vietnamese. This demographic typically doesn’t have the resources of Chinese students (extra private tutoring, etc) because, even though their parents are possibly “successful biz owners” now, they or THEIR parents (students’ grandparents) were “resettled” here in SD by the Federal govm’t as refugees 20-30 years ago with only the clothing on their backs and perhaps not all their children with them. They didn’t move here with university educations.

Even moreso than having an “upper MC” family income which is very often solely the (ahem, temporary) result of two parents working FT, public school students do best when they are enrolled in a school full of their demographic “peers” and most of the teachers at their school are of the same demographic as them. For instance, in several SUHSD high schools, “Hispanics” score much higher on state-administered exams than the vast majority of HS’s in other districts in SD County because they are surrounded by mostly themselves, including their teacher and administrator-mentors.

This is why districts prefer to hire a newly-minted young teacher who graduated from a HS in their own district over an outsider.

“Family income” is not the only thing or even the main thing that contributes to a CA school’s high API score, IMHO. I believe they are accomplished by expert teachers explicitly teaching to the test by rote, repetition, using rewards, etc. … whatever it takes to raise the scores of a particular population of students. The most successful teachers in this regard are those who personally and intimately identify with the culture of their students, whether by birth, marriage or assimilation.

In other words, if your children are at least 50% “Hispanic” and your family is able to afford an “upper MC” area, why would you choose to raise them in the TPHS attendance area, when, instead of being “ignored” in school in favor of students of other ethnicities, they would thrive and do so much better at Bonita Vista High School (BVHS) with a 2011 API of 851?

Very “high scoring” public schools are not for every kid. There are many other factors that should be considered in school selection besides “API score.”

[poorgradstudent]

[quote=flu]Being gifted in you doesn’t mean shit. Being driven an passionate that matters makes a huge different. People that I knew that were gifted and breezed through HS and got into Harvard/MIT subsequently flunked out because they were lazy. People that weren’t the rock stars but worked for it did well and ended up working for Goldman (ok maybe, that’s not such a good thing 🙂
[/quote]
To keep hammering my sports analogies, being gifted is like being a top 5 draft pick. It’s no guarantee of superstardom: Ryan Leaf, anyone? But the odds of a student identified as “gifted” achieving more than their less gifted peers are certainly higher. Natural gifts are one part of the equation. “You can’t teach height”, but the NBA is littered with high draft pick big men who never panned out. Still, I hear that LeBron guy is pretty good.

[lpjohnso]

Proud, very proud. As an early 90s high school student from Encinitas, I never thought I would see the day that the “ghetto-ish” San Marcos High would do so well. I am so happy my boys will be going there. Even though many will question the methodology of the ranking, there is no debate that their academic improvements within the past 20 years is a job well done!

[briansd1]

[quote=markmax33®][quote=AN] How can you explain the fact that Asian in low income areas like El Cajon getting similar API scores as Hispanics in an area like Carmel Valley?[/quote]
Clearly, Asians are smarter than Hispanics.[/quote]

Not smarter, we all all the same.

The difference is culture. Asian families value education a lot more, even more than Whites, IMO. Whites have the advantage of being the establishment.

But give it a few more decades and you will see. We already see that in disproportionately high Asian enrollment at CA universities.

[Anonymous]

The Malcom Gladwell book, Outliers, that I mentioned on another thread offers an interesting historical explanation as to why Asians tend to have a very strong work ethic: It’s the rice.

Not the nutritional aspects of the rice, but the fact that rice is a very labor-intensive crop to produce, and rice grows year-round. People from rice growing regions had to develop a culture of “work all day, all year” simply to produce food.

It could be nonsense, but it’s an interesting and fun theory. Apparently there is even a statistical difference between the academic success of Chinese from rice-growing regions vs. areas in the north where other crops were used.

[an]

BG, you’re right, Hoover attendance doesn’t include El Cajon. I was assuming since it’s on El Cajon Blvd, it’s El Cajon area, but it turns out to be not the case. Here’s Hoover’s attendance map: http://california.hometownlocator.com/schools/profiles,n,hoover%20high,z,92115,t,pb,i,1016697.cfm

But that’s besides the point. My point is, the students that goes to Hoover HS are low income. http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2011/2011GrowthSch.aspx?cYear=2005-06&allcds=37-683383732997. Based on the total number of students tested for their API score: 1364, the Socioeconomically Disadvantaged group is 1364 students.

Now, for the rest of your statement, it’s hogwash. Asian is not a homogenous group and they all don’t speak the same language. So, having a Chinese teacher teaching a bunch of Japanese students would be no difference than having a White teacher teaching that group of Japanese student. So Asian statement makes absolutely no sense.

WRT Bonita Vista High School, the Hispanic API score is 826, the White API score is 883, while the Asian API score is 933. How many Asian teacher do you see at BVHS vs Hispanic and White teachers?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN]BG, you’re right, Hoover attendance doesn’t include El Cajon. I was assuming since it’s on El Cajon Blvd, it’s El Cajon area, but it turns out to be not the case. Here’s Hoover’s attendance map: http://california.hometownlocator.com/schools/profiles,n,hoover%20high,z,92115,t,pb,i,1016697.cfm

But that’s besides the point. My point is, the students that goes to Hoover HS are low income. http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2011/2011GrowthSch.aspx?cYear=2005-06&allcds=37-683383732997. Based on the total number of students tested for their API score: 1364, the Socioeconomically Disadvantaged group is 1364 students.

Now, for the rest of your statement, it’s hogwash. Asian is not a homogenous group and they all don’t speak the same language. So, having a Chinese teacher teaching a bunch of Japanese students would be no difference than having a White teacher teaching that group of Japanese student. So Asian statement makes absolutely no sense.

WRT Bonita Vista High School, the Hispanic API score is 826, the White API score is 883, while the Asian API score is 933. How many Asian teacher do you see at BVHS vs Hispanic and White teachers?[/quote]

I totally agree that there are different “ethnicities” within the Asian demographic group.

Teachers at BVHS are ALL races but more than half of them are Hispanic (at least part Hispanic) and teachers of “other demographic” there speak Spanish.

“Hispanic” is such a “catch all” term for a portion of the “Caucasian” race. Like, flu said, he intends to change the last name of his daughter before she applies for college (to increase her chances of admission, lol). What’s in a surname? Many persons with “Hispanic” surnames do not possess even one drop of “Hispanic” blood. And how much “Hispanic” blood in them does one need to be officially labeled “Hispanic” or “Latino?” Would 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8 do??

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN]…WRT Bonita Vista High School, the Hispanic API score is 826, the White API score is 883, while the Asian API score is 933. How many Asian teacher do you see at BVHS vs Hispanic and White teachers?[/quote]

AN, you must admit that the “Hispanic” portion (826) of BVHS’s overall API score is higher than many, many HS scores in the entire county. How would a score of 826 rank a HS in 2011? Perhaps 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th or 20th out of ALL schools??

Why do you think this is so when the “Hispanic” students (with every “advantage?”) do so poorly on the same test at TPHS?

[sdrealtor]

[quote=AN][quote=flu]Well in on honesty, imho “race” base performance these days is more of a myth than truth imho…
Imho, it has a lot more to do with social-economic environment/background than actual “race/ethnicity” in this modern world.

You take a bunch of upper-middle class educated people and stick them in one school district, doesn’t really matter what ethnicity they are. Chances are they all want the same thing (probably) and probably perform more or less the same…Maybe that’s what’s going on…Bahh, i don’t care… (for the last time)…[/quote]
I would have to disagree with this one. Here’s an example:
Hoover HS API:
Asian – 747

Torrey Pines HS API:
Hispanic – 745

This is comparing low income area vs upper middle class area. How can you explain the fact that Asian in low income areas like El Cajon getting similar API scores as Hispanics in an area like Carmel Valley?[/quote]

I think it changes when you move out of upper middle class educated neighborhoods where things are more equalized. In lower class areas you are far more likely to have kids on the way up, kids on the way down and kids treading water which explains the difference. The asian kids in the lower class areas are probably more likely to come from more recent immigrant families from more recently developing countries (vietnamese etc.) and are on the way up.

[briansd1]

[quote=harvey]The Malcom Gladwell book, Outliers, that I mentioned on another thread offers an interesting historical explanation as to why Asians tend to have a very strong work ethic: It’s the rice.
[/quote]
That’s an interesting theory. I like to theorize about things,

Thailand is the largest rice exporting country in the world, if I recall. But Thais are not known for academic excellence. In fact they have a “sanook” attitude of relaxing and enjoying life.

I have a friend who says that Thais eat a lot of glutinous sticky rice which makes you feel full, sleepy, and lazy.

I think it’s the Confucian culture where education is highly valued. In fact Confucian culture has a long history of Mandarins (senior officials) who rose to their ranks through the Imperial examination system.

[an]

[quote=bearishgurl]I totally agree that there are different “ethnicities” within the Asian demographic group.

Teachers at BVHS are ALL races but more than half of them are Hispanic (at least part Hispanic) and teachers of “other demographic” there speak Spanish.

“Hispanic” is such a “catch all” term for a portion of the “Caucasian” race. Like, flu said, he intends to change the last name of his daughter before she applies for college (to increase her chances of admission, lol). What’s in a surname? Many persons with “Hispanic” surnames do not possess even one drop of “Hispanic” blood. And how much “Hispanic” blood in them does one need to be officially labeled “Hispanic” or “Latino?” Would 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8 do??[/quote]
So, how does this play into your argument about my original post of Asian in Hoover score similar to Hispanic in Carmel Valley? So, what you’re saying even the Non-Hispanic with Hispanic names are not scoring as well as their Asian and White counter parts? Even with all the teachers speaking Spanish to help Hispanic kids assimilate and that’s the best that they can do? That’s kinds of sad.

[an]

[quote=bearishgurl]AN, you must admit that the “Hispanic” portion (826) of BVHS’s overall API score is higher than many, many HS scores in the entire county. How would a score of 826 rank a HS in 2011? Perhaps 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th or 20th out of ALL schools??

Why do you think this is so when the “Hispanic” students (with every “advantage?”) do so poorly on the same test at TPHS?[/quote]
826 ain’t nothing to crow about. Even with all the “advantages” you mentioned in BVHS, and that’s the best that they can do? I don’t know why Hispanics do so poorly compare to Whites and Asian everywhere. You seem to know, why don’t you try to explain that to me.

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