OT: Sad day for America

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Arraya]Good grief. For some reason smart conservatives become brain dead when talking about Nazism and Fascism in regards to political spectrum. Sure they were called the National Socialist Party, which I guess is good enough and operation just does not matter.

What I find interesting, also, is that they often imply that ‘society’ owning means of production and resources, none of which happened in Nazi germany, somehow inexplicably leads to genocidal behavior and mass murder. Which, therefor implicitly means that a small elite minority owning everything leads to peace and tranquility.[/quote]

Arraya: I think much of the misunderstanding stems from a certain willfulness to not understand (i.e. the worry that admitting that the Nazis were Rightists is problematic), but a larger issue is that Hitler was entirely inconsistent in his ideology. Whether it took the form of contradictory speeches and edicts, or his alliance with Stalin and Soviet Russia (until he invaded), there are plenty of examples of a lack of coherence in Nazi policy.

Bottom line: Nazi Germany was Rightist, but not right-wing (in the sense that Americans understand it), just as Soviet Russia was Leftist (in the sense that Americans understand it). However, neither adhered to any “true” ideology (Stalin quickly abandoned Marxism and Hitler rapidly reconfigured Germany into a corporatist fascist state, once he had seized power).

[Arraya]

Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.

[Arraya]

Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.

[Arraya]

Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.

[Arraya]

Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.

[Arraya]

Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.

[bubba99]

Arraya,

You state the unfortunate truth. As a society we could hide the insanity with an economy that gave even the marginally sane a path to future success. That path is quickly evaporating.

When the marginally sane, lose any hope for economic success, are armed, and close to homeless – look out. Add drug use, and a real disparity between the haves and have- nots, this will not be the last insane act by an individual toward a politician. This was predictable. I can only hope that this does not trigger a rash of copy cats.

My only surprise is that it was not a banker that fell to the first shots. I see a world of the “haves” surrounded by private security trying to prevent the Inevitable

[bubba99]

Arraya,

You state the unfortunate truth. As a society we could hide the insanity with an economy that gave even the marginally sane a path to future success. That path is quickly evaporating.

When the marginally sane, lose any hope for economic success, are armed, and close to homeless – look out. Add drug use, and a real disparity between the haves and have- nots, this will not be the last insane act by an individual toward a politician. This was predictable. I can only hope that this does not trigger a rash of copy cats.

My only surprise is that it was not a banker that fell to the first shots. I see a world of the “haves” surrounded by private security trying to prevent the Inevitable

[bubba99]

Arraya,

You state the unfortunate truth. As a society we could hide the insanity with an economy that gave even the marginally sane a path to future success. That path is quickly evaporating.

When the marginally sane, lose any hope for economic success, are armed, and close to homeless – look out. Add drug use, and a real disparity between the haves and have- nots, this will not be the last insane act by an individual toward a politician. This was predictable. I can only hope that this does not trigger a rash of copy cats.

My only surprise is that it was not a banker that fell to the first shots. I see a world of the “haves” surrounded by private security trying to prevent the Inevitable

[bubba99]

Arraya,

You state the unfortunate truth. As a society we could hide the insanity with an economy that gave even the marginally sane a path to future success. That path is quickly evaporating.

When the marginally sane, lose any hope for economic success, are armed, and close to homeless – look out. Add drug use, and a real disparity between the haves and have- nots, this will not be the last insane act by an individual toward a politician. This was predictable. I can only hope that this does not trigger a rash of copy cats.

My only surprise is that it was not a banker that fell to the first shots. I see a world of the “haves” surrounded by private security trying to prevent the Inevitable

[bubba99]

Arraya,

You state the unfortunate truth. As a society we could hide the insanity with an economy that gave even the marginally sane a path to future success. That path is quickly evaporating.

When the marginally sane, lose any hope for economic success, are armed, and close to homeless – look out. Add drug use, and a real disparity between the haves and have- nots, this will not be the last insane act by an individual toward a politician. This was predictable. I can only hope that this does not trigger a rash of copy cats.

My only surprise is that it was not a banker that fell to the first shots. I see a world of the “haves” surrounded by private security trying to prevent the Inevitable

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Arraya]Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.[/quote]

Arraya: And now you make the larger point, which is that the chattering classes really have no sense of history, save what they’re told, and no sense of ideology, save what they’ve learned in PoliSci 101. Which leads to a cessation of honest dialogue and the “us versus them” finger pointing that Russ mentioned above.

The wheels are getting ever closer to coming completely off the wagon and Bubba99’s post below really hits the nail on the head. We’re getting frighteningly close to becoming the best defended Third World nation on the planet. There’s a great book out there by Norman Spinrad, called “Russian Spring” that lays out this dystopian future nearly exactly.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Arraya]Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.[/quote]

Arraya: And now you make the larger point, which is that the chattering classes really have no sense of history, save what they’re told, and no sense of ideology, save what they’ve learned in PoliSci 101. Which leads to a cessation of honest dialogue and the “us versus them” finger pointing that Russ mentioned above.

The wheels are getting ever closer to coming completely off the wagon and Bubba99’s post below really hits the nail on the head. We’re getting frighteningly close to becoming the best defended Third World nation on the planet. There’s a great book out there by Norman Spinrad, called “Russian Spring” that lays out this dystopian future nearly exactly.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Arraya]Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.[/quote]

Arraya: And now you make the larger point, which is that the chattering classes really have no sense of history, save what they’re told, and no sense of ideology, save what they’ve learned in PoliSci 101. Which leads to a cessation of honest dialogue and the “us versus them” finger pointing that Russ mentioned above.

The wheels are getting ever closer to coming completely off the wagon and Bubba99’s post below really hits the nail on the head. We’re getting frighteningly close to becoming the best defended Third World nation on the planet. There’s a great book out there by Norman Spinrad, called “Russian Spring” that lays out this dystopian future nearly exactly.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Arraya]Sure Allan I get it. I was referring more to the standard political spectrum graph you will get in any first year political science class. As well as the subsequent conflation of Hitler with left wing politics meme floating around because of the title National Socialist Party. In a sense, ‘pundits’ do with past dictators what is being done with this recent shooter, which is claim them to the other ‘team’.[/quote]

Arraya: And now you make the larger point, which is that the chattering classes really have no sense of history, save what they’re told, and no sense of ideology, save what they’ve learned in PoliSci 101. Which leads to a cessation of honest dialogue and the “us versus them” finger pointing that Russ mentioned above.

The wheels are getting ever closer to coming completely off the wagon and Bubba99’s post below really hits the nail on the head. We’re getting frighteningly close to becoming the best defended Third World nation on the planet. There’s a great book out there by Norman Spinrad, called “Russian Spring” that lays out this dystopian future nearly exactly.

[Author]

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