OT: Sad day for America

[Aecetia]

I just saw the most recent picture posted of the shooter and I am guessing he is on something- I was wondering if he is on psych. meds because he seems a lot heavier in the face. Either that or steroids. Seems like a picture of a psychiatric decomposition to me.

I also wanted to mention that a nut shot John Lennon for nothing. Sometimes a random act of violence has no political basis.

[jstoesz]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=jstoesz]
Oh, and EST here is some research for you…Not quite like “one flew over the cuckoos nest” anymore…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy%5B/quote%5D
I know two people who were treated by ECT (not called EST).. and they were never the person they were before the treatment. One committed suicide a few years later. Patients treated with ECT became more like a withdrawn shell of their former self. ECT can be viewed as an aversive training, much like severe/brutal punishing of an animal. After the punishment, they tend to go around cowering.

My personal belief is that ECT is a form of quackery put forth by psychologists who saw Skinner’s experiments (basically aversive training) and presumed it could be blindly applied to humans. It is a relatively easy form of ‘treatment’ where the psychologist doesn’t have to find the root cause for a problem in the patient, instead the psychologist presents the patient with the scenario of their psychosis and then zap..

BTW: The other person that I knew was treated by ECT was a young girl at the time, about 13, who my family suspected was raped and her psychosis at the time was her process of trying to cope with being raped by her father. From the time of her treatment on, she basically had to live in an assisted care facility; this from a former introverted by straight-A student.[/quote]

I know little or nothing about ECT (I thought it was still called electro shock therapy). It does seem rather quackish, but many things about psychiatrists seem rather quackish…

I am an ME who loves the simplicity of mechanisms for their cause and effect. I have little love for pills, because the cause and effect is so muddled up in the myriads of unknown side effects. Psych meds scare the bejesus out of me. So needless to say, I find ECT even more ridiculous.

I only brought it up because I thought a previous poster had “one flew over the cuckoo nest” visions of lobotomies and ECT’s.

I think most modern medicine has a tendency to hype the positive and overlook the negative. But I guess I have stepped into a field that I know little about (my wife ridicules me constantly for my distrust of medical studies).

[jstoesz]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=jstoesz]
Oh, and EST here is some research for you…Not quite like “one flew over the cuckoos nest” anymore…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy%5B/quote%5D
I know two people who were treated by ECT (not called EST).. and they were never the person they were before the treatment. One committed suicide a few years later. Patients treated with ECT became more like a withdrawn shell of their former self. ECT can be viewed as an aversive training, much like severe/brutal punishing of an animal. After the punishment, they tend to go around cowering.

My personal belief is that ECT is a form of quackery put forth by psychologists who saw Skinner’s experiments (basically aversive training) and presumed it could be blindly applied to humans. It is a relatively easy form of ‘treatment’ where the psychologist doesn’t have to find the root cause for a problem in the patient, instead the psychologist presents the patient with the scenario of their psychosis and then zap..

BTW: The other person that I knew was treated by ECT was a young girl at the time, about 13, who my family suspected was raped and her psychosis at the time was her process of trying to cope with being raped by her father. From the time of her treatment on, she basically had to live in an assisted care facility; this from a former introverted by straight-A student.[/quote]

I know little or nothing about ECT (I thought it was still called electro shock therapy). It does seem rather quackish, but many things about psychiatrists seem rather quackish…

I am an ME who loves the simplicity of mechanisms for their cause and effect. I have little love for pills, because the cause and effect is so muddled up in the myriads of unknown side effects. Psych meds scare the bejesus out of me. So needless to say, I find ECT even more ridiculous.

I only brought it up because I thought a previous poster had “one flew over the cuckoo nest” visions of lobotomies and ECT’s.

I think most modern medicine has a tendency to hype the positive and overlook the negative. But I guess I have stepped into a field that I know little about (my wife ridicules me constantly for my distrust of medical studies).

[jstoesz]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=jstoesz]
Oh, and EST here is some research for you…Not quite like “one flew over the cuckoos nest” anymore…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy%5B/quote%5D
I know two people who were treated by ECT (not called EST).. and they were never the person they were before the treatment. One committed suicide a few years later. Patients treated with ECT became more like a withdrawn shell of their former self. ECT can be viewed as an aversive training, much like severe/brutal punishing of an animal. After the punishment, they tend to go around cowering.

My personal belief is that ECT is a form of quackery put forth by psychologists who saw Skinner’s experiments (basically aversive training) and presumed it could be blindly applied to humans. It is a relatively easy form of ‘treatment’ where the psychologist doesn’t have to find the root cause for a problem in the patient, instead the psychologist presents the patient with the scenario of their psychosis and then zap..

BTW: The other person that I knew was treated by ECT was a young girl at the time, about 13, who my family suspected was raped and her psychosis at the time was her process of trying to cope with being raped by her father. From the time of her treatment on, she basically had to live in an assisted care facility; this from a former introverted by straight-A student.[/quote]

I know little or nothing about ECT (I thought it was still called electro shock therapy). It does seem rather quackish, but many things about psychiatrists seem rather quackish…

I am an ME who loves the simplicity of mechanisms for their cause and effect. I have little love for pills, because the cause and effect is so muddled up in the myriads of unknown side effects. Psych meds scare the bejesus out of me. So needless to say, I find ECT even more ridiculous.

I only brought it up because I thought a previous poster had “one flew over the cuckoo nest” visions of lobotomies and ECT’s.

I think most modern medicine has a tendency to hype the positive and overlook the negative. But I guess I have stepped into a field that I know little about (my wife ridicules me constantly for my distrust of medical studies).

[jstoesz]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=jstoesz]
Oh, and EST here is some research for you…Not quite like “one flew over the cuckoos nest” anymore…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy%5B/quote%5D
I know two people who were treated by ECT (not called EST).. and they were never the person they were before the treatment. One committed suicide a few years later. Patients treated with ECT became more like a withdrawn shell of their former self. ECT can be viewed as an aversive training, much like severe/brutal punishing of an animal. After the punishment, they tend to go around cowering.

My personal belief is that ECT is a form of quackery put forth by psychologists who saw Skinner’s experiments (basically aversive training) and presumed it could be blindly applied to humans. It is a relatively easy form of ‘treatment’ where the psychologist doesn’t have to find the root cause for a problem in the patient, instead the psychologist presents the patient with the scenario of their psychosis and then zap..

BTW: The other person that I knew was treated by ECT was a young girl at the time, about 13, who my family suspected was raped and her psychosis at the time was her process of trying to cope with being raped by her father. From the time of her treatment on, she basically had to live in an assisted care facility; this from a former introverted by straight-A student.[/quote]

I know little or nothing about ECT (I thought it was still called electro shock therapy). It does seem rather quackish, but many things about psychiatrists seem rather quackish…

I am an ME who loves the simplicity of mechanisms for their cause and effect. I have little love for pills, because the cause and effect is so muddled up in the myriads of unknown side effects. Psych meds scare the bejesus out of me. So needless to say, I find ECT even more ridiculous.

I only brought it up because I thought a previous poster had “one flew over the cuckoo nest” visions of lobotomies and ECT’s.

I think most modern medicine has a tendency to hype the positive and overlook the negative. But I guess I have stepped into a field that I know little about (my wife ridicules me constantly for my distrust of medical studies).

[jstoesz]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=jstoesz]
Oh, and EST here is some research for you…Not quite like “one flew over the cuckoos nest” anymore…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy%5B/quote%5D
I know two people who were treated by ECT (not called EST).. and they were never the person they were before the treatment. One committed suicide a few years later. Patients treated with ECT became more like a withdrawn shell of their former self. ECT can be viewed as an aversive training, much like severe/brutal punishing of an animal. After the punishment, they tend to go around cowering.

My personal belief is that ECT is a form of quackery put forth by psychologists who saw Skinner’s experiments (basically aversive training) and presumed it could be blindly applied to humans. It is a relatively easy form of ‘treatment’ where the psychologist doesn’t have to find the root cause for a problem in the patient, instead the psychologist presents the patient with the scenario of their psychosis and then zap..

BTW: The other person that I knew was treated by ECT was a young girl at the time, about 13, who my family suspected was raped and her psychosis at the time was her process of trying to cope with being raped by her father. From the time of her treatment on, she basically had to live in an assisted care facility; this from a former introverted by straight-A student.[/quote]

I know little or nothing about ECT (I thought it was still called electro shock therapy). It does seem rather quackish, but many things about psychiatrists seem rather quackish…

I am an ME who loves the simplicity of mechanisms for their cause and effect. I have little love for pills, because the cause and effect is so muddled up in the myriads of unknown side effects. Psych meds scare the bejesus out of me. So needless to say, I find ECT even more ridiculous.

I only brought it up because I thought a previous poster had “one flew over the cuckoo nest” visions of lobotomies and ECT’s.

I think most modern medicine has a tendency to hype the positive and overlook the negative. But I guess I have stepped into a field that I know little about (my wife ridicules me constantly for my distrust of medical studies).

[Anonymous]

[quote]It is always those who call themselves liberals that are the first to embrace fascism.[/quote]

Almost spit out my coffee laughing at this one.

There have only been a few significant fascist organizations in history, and NONE of them ever claimed to be “liberals.”

But apparently it’s “hard to argue with.”

Hard to argue with the suggestion that Hitler was liberal?

And so many people swallow this shit. Hook line sinker.

They repeat it with all the seriousness of one reading a holy text.

I wonder if Rush and Glenn ever drive to the bank together. They must laugh their asses off.

[Anonymous]

[quote]It is always those who call themselves liberals that are the first to embrace fascism.[/quote]

Almost spit out my coffee laughing at this one.

There have only been a few significant fascist organizations in history, and NONE of them ever claimed to be “liberals.”

But apparently it’s “hard to argue with.”

Hard to argue with the suggestion that Hitler was liberal?

And so many people swallow this shit. Hook line sinker.

They repeat it with all the seriousness of one reading a holy text.

I wonder if Rush and Glenn ever drive to the bank together. They must laugh their asses off.

[Anonymous]

[quote]It is always those who call themselves liberals that are the first to embrace fascism.[/quote]

Almost spit out my coffee laughing at this one.

There have only been a few significant fascist organizations in history, and NONE of them ever claimed to be “liberals.”

But apparently it’s “hard to argue with.”

Hard to argue with the suggestion that Hitler was liberal?

And so many people swallow this shit. Hook line sinker.

They repeat it with all the seriousness of one reading a holy text.

I wonder if Rush and Glenn ever drive to the bank together. They must laugh their asses off.

[Anonymous]

[quote]It is always those who call themselves liberals that are the first to embrace fascism.[/quote]

Almost spit out my coffee laughing at this one.

There have only been a few significant fascist organizations in history, and NONE of them ever claimed to be “liberals.”

But apparently it’s “hard to argue with.”

Hard to argue with the suggestion that Hitler was liberal?

And so many people swallow this shit. Hook line sinker.

They repeat it with all the seriousness of one reading a holy text.

I wonder if Rush and Glenn ever drive to the bank together. They must laugh their asses off.

[Anonymous]

[quote]It is always those who call themselves liberals that are the first to embrace fascism.[/quote]

Almost spit out my coffee laughing at this one.

There have only been a few significant fascist organizations in history, and NONE of them ever claimed to be “liberals.”

But apparently it’s “hard to argue with.”

Hard to argue with the suggestion that Hitler was liberal?

And so many people swallow this shit. Hook line sinker.

They repeat it with all the seriousness of one reading a holy text.

I wonder if Rush and Glenn ever drive to the bank together. They must laugh their asses off.

[surveyor]

[quote=Rustico]Great post Surveyor,
So you basically demonstrate that the left and the right will do anything to get votes, Terrorism, endorsing and giving venue to religious nuts through their charlatan leaders…whatever it takes… and so what if it makes the U.S. the first Yosemite Sam meets Jerry Springer sovereign.[/quote]

So when the OP and others in this post are so quick to accuse Palin, the right wingers, Republicans, and others that they are responsible for this tragedy, you should be able to discern the invalidity of their assertions, right?

And it’s interesting to note the lack of outrage from those same people when the democrats use the same language, right?

It’s just interesting how many times the MSM accuse Palin and the tea party of violence and racism and have come up short of proof again.

By the way, surveyors also call theodolites “guns.” Will that qualify me as a right winger as a murderer before the facts? Maybe if I was perceived as a liberal that wouldn’t happen.

[surveyor]

[quote=Rustico]Great post Surveyor,
So you basically demonstrate that the left and the right will do anything to get votes, Terrorism, endorsing and giving venue to religious nuts through their charlatan leaders…whatever it takes… and so what if it makes the U.S. the first Yosemite Sam meets Jerry Springer sovereign.[/quote]

So when the OP and others in this post are so quick to accuse Palin, the right wingers, Republicans, and others that they are responsible for this tragedy, you should be able to discern the invalidity of their assertions, right?

And it’s interesting to note the lack of outrage from those same people when the democrats use the same language, right?

It’s just interesting how many times the MSM accuse Palin and the tea party of violence and racism and have come up short of proof again.

By the way, surveyors also call theodolites “guns.” Will that qualify me as a right winger as a murderer before the facts? Maybe if I was perceived as a liberal that wouldn’t happen.

[surveyor]

[quote=Rustico]Great post Surveyor,
So you basically demonstrate that the left and the right will do anything to get votes, Terrorism, endorsing and giving venue to religious nuts through their charlatan leaders…whatever it takes… and so what if it makes the U.S. the first Yosemite Sam meets Jerry Springer sovereign.[/quote]

So when the OP and others in this post are so quick to accuse Palin, the right wingers, Republicans, and others that they are responsible for this tragedy, you should be able to discern the invalidity of their assertions, right?

And it’s interesting to note the lack of outrage from those same people when the democrats use the same language, right?

It’s just interesting how many times the MSM accuse Palin and the tea party of violence and racism and have come up short of proof again.

By the way, surveyors also call theodolites “guns.” Will that qualify me as a right winger as a murderer before the facts? Maybe if I was perceived as a liberal that wouldn’t happen.

[surveyor]

[quote=Rustico]Great post Surveyor,
So you basically demonstrate that the left and the right will do anything to get votes, Terrorism, endorsing and giving venue to religious nuts through their charlatan leaders…whatever it takes… and so what if it makes the U.S. the first Yosemite Sam meets Jerry Springer sovereign.[/quote]

So when the OP and others in this post are so quick to accuse Palin, the right wingers, Republicans, and others that they are responsible for this tragedy, you should be able to discern the invalidity of their assertions, right?

And it’s interesting to note the lack of outrage from those same people when the democrats use the same language, right?

It’s just interesting how many times the MSM accuse Palin and the tea party of violence and racism and have come up short of proof again.

By the way, surveyors also call theodolites “guns.” Will that qualify me as a right winger as a murderer before the facts? Maybe if I was perceived as a liberal that wouldn’t happen.

[Author]

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