OT: religion

[zk]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Inverting pascal wager …I am so confident in my position that I am willing to wager an eternity in heaven. Is any believers faith stronger than that?[/quote]

Wow. How about we call you “notscaredy.”

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]Inverting pascal wager …I am so confident in my position that I am willing to wager an eternity in heaven. Is any believers faith stronger than that?[/quote]

Wow. How about we call you “notscaredy.”[/quote]

I’m also willing to risk an eternity in heaven if my position is wrong. I’m willing to let god punish me for not believing in him.

Is there actually a risk of punishment for not believing?

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=scaredyclassic]
food and health and the worship of the body are the new nationalreligion.[/quote]

I don’t give a shit what people eat.

But is you want to live longer, you can.

That kind of “proselytizing” is not the same as religion.

When you have scientific data on things that work then you should use it to achieve social goals. As an individual, I don’t care what people eat. But as part of a group, i do care that the right policies as not put in place.[/quote]

Do you know how many times people have had “scientific data” that later turned out to be wrong??? For example, my mother made us eat margarine instead of butter when I was a kid because science said it was better for you than butter. Hah! Or how about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory

My background is in science and I am amazed at how often people’s ungrounded beliefs pass for science.

[UCGal]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=scaredyclassic]
food and health and the worship of the body are the new nationalreligion.[/quote]

I don’t give a shit what people eat.

But is you want to live longer, you can.

That kind of “proselytizing” is not the same as religion.

When you have scientific data on things that work then you should use it to achieve social goals. As an individual, I don’t care what people eat. But as part of a group, i do care that the right policies as not put in place.[/quote]
Snort.
You don’t care what people eat as long as they aren’t fat – as you define it.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]Inverting pascal wager …I am so confident in my position that I am willing to wager an eternity in heaven. Is any believers faith stronger than that?[/quote]

Wow. How about we call you “notscaredy.”[/quote]

I’m only really scared regarding $. I don’t believe I exist other than as a bundle of information. Money on the other hand is that and much much more. My belief is not based in faith. I am absolutely certain there is no heaven, no G-d that has any interest in us whatsoever. This I know to the absolute core of my being with unswerving certainty. How easy would it be to say ok, as part of my ed state planning hedge, I accept Jesus as my personal savior, thereby getting an option for potential eternal life. But no. I have no fear in this regard. I am equally certain that money and its power is real, or at least as real as anything in this transitory illusion.

[flyer]

As a “believer” I’m also absolutely sure that the power of money is very
real–as long as we are in this world. That’s why we set up trust funds for our kids. Even though they’re all doing well on their own, we want to do our best to make sure they can enjoy life in the long term as we have.

Whatever happens or doesn’t happen after this world remains to be seen.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=njtosd]

Do you know how many times people have had “scientific data” that later turned out to be wrong??? For example, my mother made us eat margarine instead of butter when I was a kid because science said it was better for you than butter. Hah! Or how about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory

My background is in science and I am amazed at how often people’s ungrounded beliefs pass for science.[/quote]

True enough that a lot of dietary advice is wrong.

But eating less calories lengthens life. Proven.
Believe what you want but smart implementation of scientific data would be to choose less calorie dense food.

I’m in fact so confident of my beliefs that I’ve stopped proselytizing to my close relations. I just say believe what you want but let’s wait until we are all 70 to determine who’s right.

Is it ever too late to believe? Are the effects the same is you believe at the last minute?

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flyer]As a “believer” I’m also absolutely sure that the power of money is very
real–as long as we are in this world. That’s why we set up trust funds for our kids. Even though they’re all doing well on their own, we want to do our best to make sure they can enjoy life in the long term as we have.

Whatever happens or doesn’t happen after this world remains to be seen.[/quote]

Seen not in an ocular sense but in an Oracular sense. Or perhaps a jocular sense as I believe the whole of the cosmos is a massive joke.

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=njtosd]

Do you know how many times people have had “scientific data” that later turned out to be wrong??? For example, my mother made us eat margarine instead of butter when I was a kid because science said it was better for you than butter. Hah! Or how about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory

My background is in science and I am amazed at how often people’s ungrounded beliefs pass for science.[/quote]

True enough that a lot of dietary advice is wrong.

But eating less calories lengthens life. Proven.
…….
[/quote]

Eating fewer calories can also kill you. At what rate of intake does healthy turn to unhealthy? And with fewer calories comes a reduced opportunity to consume nutrients that are beneficial. Of course, there is a healthy balance that probably varies from person to person and with advancing age. But so far the optimal formula hasn’t been identified – as far as I’ve seen.

[FlyerInHi]

I suppose believing can be viewed as an insurance policy… Just in case. But I would like to read the terms of the contract.

Does the afterlife exclude people who don’t currently believe in it? Or it is that believers get extra credit?

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I suppose believing can be viewed as an insurance policy… Just in case.

[/quote]

For that to work for a non-believer, wouldn’t pretending to believe have to count? I mean, one can’t just say, “I don’t really believe, but I want the option of heaven, so I’m going to choose to believe.” Well, they can say that, but they wouldn’t really believe. Or they can follow the rules of a particular religion, but they wouldn’t really believe.

On the inside, no matter what you say or what you do, you either you believe it or you don’t (or you’re not sure or you’re confused).

Obviously, wanting to believe something enough will make most people believe it. Otherwise, why would there be so many people with faith despite there being no real evidence? To me, faith is only denial. The universe is a cold, dark place that cares not for anybody or anything. Most people can’t handle that, and so they believe what they can’t persevere without believing. The human mind is wired not to accept things that would cause so much emotional trauma that being a productive member of society would cease to be possible. Some people say, “wired for faith.” I say, “wired for denial.” It’s the same with alcoholics, gay religious people, terminally ill people (upon initial diagnosis), and others. We deny what we can’t accept.

In any case, choosing to believe doesn’t really make sense. In fact, whenever I hear somebody say, “I choose to believe,” whether it’s regarding religion or something else, I really don’t understand what they’re talking about. Either you believe it on the inside or you don’t, and saying “I choose to believe” makes no sense to me.

[scaredyclassic]

pascals’ wager seems to be a cost free insurance policy; costs nothing to say you believe, and you get eternity if you’re right, nothing bad if you’re wrong.

this misses the point; there is a tremendous cost to being inauthentic, to live in denial, to say you believe in things which you do not believe.

not to mention time wasted in churches, etc…

it’s easier for me to embrace a traditional Jewish ethos; the afterlife is no particular concern; it’s mainly about living decently here on earth simply because it’s the right way to do things and the jews are special so they should behave decently and live in accordance with the law.

Obviously this means no cheeseburgers.

[zk]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

Obviously this means no cheeseburgers.[/quote]

That’s a brilliant joke, scaredy. Beautifully done.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]

Obviously this means no cheeseburgers.[/quote]

That’s a brilliant joke, scaredy. Beautifully done.[/quote]

Thanks. I tried a line this weekend at a meal with others and my wife said I looked around too expectantly waiting for a laugh. She may have used the word desperate. I think I’m funnier not live. The other guy had a better line about a hamster gynecologist.

Personally I liked the ocular oracular jocular connection.

[zk]

[quote=scaredyclassic]
Personally I liked the ocular oracular jocular connection.[/quote]

That was very clever. But the sudden contrast from the seriousness of the philosophy to the absurdity of some of the precepts (and the claim that the reasons behind the precepts were obvious) darn near made me spit out my soda.

Of course, if I could have seen you looking around expectantly, it wouldn’t have been nearly as funny.

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