OT: religion

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar]Scaredy, You are flip flopping again. Once atheists should be quiet and not rock the boat then they should demand that society remove the negative stigma.[/quote]

individually you benefit by shutting up. that si the course i advise my kids, and they are way more outwardly conservative and conformist than i am.

societally, it is better to speak out. for someone else to speak out though.

kind of like how consumer spending is good for the conomy, but its probably better individually to save.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=flu]Here’s my take on religious people.

You have a small percentage of religious people that are wacko nut jobs that screw it up for the rest of the religious people. Unfortunately, that small percentage tends to be the most visible and most vocal and have the most extreme viewpoints (my way or the highway). And for the vast body of folks that don’t believe in a religion, obviously it rubs people in the wrong way. And then people tend to generalize every religious person is a wacko nut job.

It’s really no different than watching the riots in Baltimore, seeing some of the looters/rioters are black, and then erroneously generalizing that every black person is a looter/rioter, when clearly that isn’t the case.[/quote]
For many people it goes way beyond the wackos, They are personally offended by the church of their youth, they resent religions history, resent and fear religions power of control over humans in the present.( and the presidents) . They see entire churches are scandalous , people using ,money making machines, even the established acceptable brands. The pushy born agains are the least of it, more to be pitied for their obvious desperation than anything.[/quote]

religion is power and power is scary. i wouldnt trust anyone who claims to have G-d on their side. just like they wuldnt trust me for not beleiving inside in G-d and eternal judgment.

[scaredyclassic]

of course, this was understood when we took our kids to church. i said under no circumstances could they ever be alone with any priest, deacon or other relgiious official type person, male or female. my wife agreed. i would not have permitted that, regardless of the type of church or synagogue. i would assume that any religious official type person is significantly more likely than an average person to ahve an abnormal sexual interest in children. or to be gay, or have some other different sexual orientation.

[all]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Flu, plenty of people find the environment so oppressive that they have no choice but to fake it. Scaredy mentioned the crypto Jews.[/quote]

Naturalization Oath of Allegiance
So help me God.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]
p
individually you benefit by shutting up. that si the course i advise my kids, and they are way more outwardly conservative and conformist than i am.

societally, it is better to speak out. for someone else to speak out though.

kind of like how consumer spending is good for the conomy, but its probably better individually to save.[/quote]

The price of not conforming is very high.

People who speak up and act differently pay a high price.

Let’s say a kid enjoys scouting, would he make it if he declared that he’s an atheist or gay? People learn to fake it from a young age.

[scaredyclassic]

try this line at scout meeting or maybe at naturalization ceremony. see if society respects atheists

“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” —Stephen F Roberts

[zk]

[quote=scaredyclassic]try this line at scout meeting or maybe at naturalization ceremony. see if society respects atheists

“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” —Stephen F Roberts[/quote]

Wow. Brilliant. Although you’re probably less likely to garner respect with that line than a cold stare and some loathing.

[scaredyclassic]

Duty to God becoming larger part of Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting

scouting mag reports you have to pretend to believe in at least one (1) manmade concept of an allknowing being to be a scout and to get “scout spirit” badge. not sure if any G-d, no matter how ridiculous , will suffice. Not sure fi you can worship norse G-ds. In fact, duty to G-d seems a bit exclusionary of pantheists. I like Zeus, but the other G-ds are just as vital to the balance of the universe.

I have a feeling the scouting pack would throw you out for some manufactured reason if you tried that kind of crap

really would like to see if you can get a badge for believing in Santa. Havent read the regs and if they define “G-d” or religion. perhaps it can be a home craft project type religion, liek local spirits.

this kinda stuff doesn’t really make me mad, but its definitely a sign that you better pay lip service to the reigning champ if you want to get along. does put truly principled atheist parents in a tight spot, sort of, or on the bright side a teachable moment in keeping your mouth shut and going along with the program, no matter how obviously wrong , dumb, oppressive or absurd it is.

what a crappy position to take though for the scouts. .

[NotCranky]

No way in hell I’d let my kid be alone with the troup dude in the photo on the link you posted. I wouldn’t want to be alone with him. That photo looks like
“If you’d trust this man and make your kid frame your duty to God just right, we want your kid”. Fuck that.

Looks like they don’t want kids who they can’t transfer duty to God to personal power for perps.

[scaredyclassic]

comments after that article get pretty nutty and go one for ever.

[Coronita]

. at least boys don’t have to sell cookies 🙂

[scaredyclassic]

i have seen boy scouts essentially begging though. seling cookies, beging, sickens me. i want to yell at them, go for a damned hike! chop some wood. do anything other than try to panhandle money! i am sickened by your disgusting cookies and your crappy call for money.

just disgusting.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

I believe in G-d in that sense and that the jews are his chosen people. I do.[/quote]

Ed Miliband said that that he’s culturally Jewish and an atheist. I hope he becomes prime minister of Britain.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=CA renter]
…I’ve known many Christians and atheists, and both groups have their good, bad, and neutral. I’ve seen no difference in the level of obnoxiousness where the extreme ones are concerned.[/quote]

perhaps. but the obnoxious superior atheist is a relatively new phenomenon. the obnoxious and dangerous religious viewpoint is pretty old.

im wondering how tht came about. when i was a kid, i dont recall religious people being so in your face, so proseyletizing, so demanding of public presence. kind of lik e veterans, they were proud and in the background.

as religiions got pushier and more needy, maybe atheists repsonded with “back the hell off?’ Im talking about the last 40 years in the usa only….[/quote]

I had to attend a Southern Baptist school. We were supposed to “witness” to our neighbors every Wednesday, IIRC. We didn’t do it more than the couple of times when we went with a larger church group (for a mandatory introductory experience, IIRC).

The Christians have probably been pretty obnoxious all along if there was someone who needed “correction,” but since more (most?) people were thought to be Christian decades ago, the religious nuts probably didn’t have as many people to pick on. That’s probably why they just picked on each other, fighting over ridiculous religious dogma and how the other person’s form of Christianity was going to doom them to an eternity of fire and brimstone with the screaming demons and worms eating away at their flesh. You have no idea how many (Protestant) Christians I’ve talked to who insist that Catholics are not “Christians” (hell-bound or not), not to mention some of the other religions. Ignorance abounds.

It’s likely that if there were many professed atheists around at the time, the Christians would probably be highly obnoxious around them, too. We just have more pronounced atheists (and other religious followers) now, so more folks to heap scorn and pity upon…and that would make it look more obnoxious.

[svelte]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=CA renter]
…I’ve known many Christians and atheists, and both groups have their good, bad, and neutral. I’ve seen no difference in the level of obnoxiousness where the extreme ones are concerned.[/quote]

perhaps. but the obnoxious superior atheist is a relatively new phenomenon. the obnoxious and dangerous religious viewpoint is pretty old.

im wondering how tht came about. when i was a kid, i dont recall religious people being so in your face, so proseyletizing, so demanding of public presence. kind of lik e veterans, they were proud and in the background.

as religiions got pushier and more needy, maybe atheists repsonded with “back the hell off?’ Im talking about the last 40 years in the usa only….[/quote]

It has seemed that way to me too, scaredy.

I’ve attributed it to one of two reasons (have no idea if either is right):

– I’m getting older and less willing to have religious zealots inject themselves into my life so it feels to me like they’ve become more intense

– The internet has let groups of people with minority viewpoints to interact and use the power of forming a group get their viewpoint better heard. In this case, the atheists.

It is my opinion, btw, that the internet allows for more anonymous interaction (like right now, for example) so topics can be thoroughly discussed and analyzed in a freer fashion. In my opinion, this will accelerate the decline of religion. That statement, of course, is for people who don’t believe an all-knowing, omnipotent object and immaculate conception are really possible. 🙂

[Author]

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