OT: Release of the DOJ torture transcripts.

[KSMountain]

No beachlover, I’m not disturbed by it. Evidently these techniques were used on only 3 of the top guys we captured after 9/11. If you think about someone like Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he was someone who definitely did have a lot of information we NEEDED. Whether it’s ticking bomb scenario or something where “only” ten thousand or so people die, yeah I’m ok with a little water up the nose. In fact, I think it is our government’s JOB to do that.

I agree with Michael Hayden who today said it’s not really a good idea to let our adversaries know all the details of what we “might” do.

To CONCHO’s comment: I did read the Hitchens article, and here are my thoughts:
* If a journalist (presumably a non-tough guy) ASKS for something to be done to him a SECOND time, after just experiencing it, can it really be called torture?
* If we do it to our own soldiers in training, are we then “torturing” our own troops? Funny how we don’t hear about them suing or anything.
* When I was young, my mom used to take me to an Ear Nose & Throat doctor at a fancy place in La Jolla. He used to lean me way back backwards in the chair, and pour vast quantities of water (or something) down my nostrils. It was barbaric. It was very painful. I wanted it to stop the moment it started. I dreaded it on subsequent visits. I don’t think it ever did any good. Was I waterboarded in front of my own mom?

Here’s my take: If you call pouring water down someone’s nose “torture”, or you call making someone wear women’s underwear “torture”, then what would you call say cutting off a finger? I’m quite sure Hitchens wouldn’t have requested THAT be done to him again.

Seems to me if you’re going to call waterboarding torture then you have disenfranchised the term so much that you would need a new word for REAL torture.

[afx114]

Apparently waterboarding is so effective that we had to do it to KSM 183 times over the span of a month. So does that mean that it’s effective or useless?

[afx114]

Apparently waterboarding is so effective that we had to do it to KSM 183 times over the span of a month. So does that mean that it’s effective or useless?

[afx114]

Apparently waterboarding is so effective that we had to do it to KSM 183 times over the span of a month. So does that mean that it’s effective or useless?

[afx114]

Apparently waterboarding is so effective that we had to do it to KSM 183 times over the span of a month. So does that mean that it’s effective or useless?

[afx114]

Apparently waterboarding is so effective that we had to do it to KSM 183 times over the span of a month. So does that mean that it’s effective or useless?

[KSMountain]

A great question. You could argue that if it were ineffective, we ourselves would have tired of it and tried something else.

On the other hand, you could argue that after 183 times, KSM certainly knew that he was likely going to survive the treatment, that he was not going to drown, etc, so that it seems likely that it started losing effectiveness.

You know, think about KSM for a moment. Here’s a guy who knew for over a year of the plan to take 4 planes full of unsuspecting people, families, etc, and end their lives. He felt he had the right to do that. Not only did he do nothing to stop it, he dedicated his life to facilitating that action. He was also involved in several other operations before and possibly after 9/11.

It was very reasonable after we captured him to expect that he knew of other operations being planned against the U.S. Perhaps some of those would have been even worse than 9/11. Perhaps some of those were stopped by information from one of the 183 sessions.

[KSMountain]

A great question. You could argue that if it were ineffective, we ourselves would have tired of it and tried something else.

On the other hand, you could argue that after 183 times, KSM certainly knew that he was likely going to survive the treatment, that he was not going to drown, etc, so that it seems likely that it started losing effectiveness.

You know, think about KSM for a moment. Here’s a guy who knew for over a year of the plan to take 4 planes full of unsuspecting people, families, etc, and end their lives. He felt he had the right to do that. Not only did he do nothing to stop it, he dedicated his life to facilitating that action. He was also involved in several other operations before and possibly after 9/11.

It was very reasonable after we captured him to expect that he knew of other operations being planned against the U.S. Perhaps some of those would have been even worse than 9/11. Perhaps some of those were stopped by information from one of the 183 sessions.

[KSMountain]

A great question. You could argue that if it were ineffective, we ourselves would have tired of it and tried something else.

On the other hand, you could argue that after 183 times, KSM certainly knew that he was likely going to survive the treatment, that he was not going to drown, etc, so that it seems likely that it started losing effectiveness.

You know, think about KSM for a moment. Here’s a guy who knew for over a year of the plan to take 4 planes full of unsuspecting people, families, etc, and end their lives. He felt he had the right to do that. Not only did he do nothing to stop it, he dedicated his life to facilitating that action. He was also involved in several other operations before and possibly after 9/11.

It was very reasonable after we captured him to expect that he knew of other operations being planned against the U.S. Perhaps some of those would have been even worse than 9/11. Perhaps some of those were stopped by information from one of the 183 sessions.

[KSMountain]

A great question. You could argue that if it were ineffective, we ourselves would have tired of it and tried something else.

On the other hand, you could argue that after 183 times, KSM certainly knew that he was likely going to survive the treatment, that he was not going to drown, etc, so that it seems likely that it started losing effectiveness.

You know, think about KSM for a moment. Here’s a guy who knew for over a year of the plan to take 4 planes full of unsuspecting people, families, etc, and end their lives. He felt he had the right to do that. Not only did he do nothing to stop it, he dedicated his life to facilitating that action. He was also involved in several other operations before and possibly after 9/11.

It was very reasonable after we captured him to expect that he knew of other operations being planned against the U.S. Perhaps some of those would have been even worse than 9/11. Perhaps some of those were stopped by information from one of the 183 sessions.

[KSMountain]

A great question. You could argue that if it were ineffective, we ourselves would have tired of it and tried something else.

On the other hand, you could argue that after 183 times, KSM certainly knew that he was likely going to survive the treatment, that he was not going to drown, etc, so that it seems likely that it started losing effectiveness.

You know, think about KSM for a moment. Here’s a guy who knew for over a year of the plan to take 4 planes full of unsuspecting people, families, etc, and end their lives. He felt he had the right to do that. Not only did he do nothing to stop it, he dedicated his life to facilitating that action. He was also involved in several other operations before and possibly after 9/11.

It was very reasonable after we captured him to expect that he knew of other operations being planned against the U.S. Perhaps some of those would have been even worse than 9/11. Perhaps some of those were stopped by information from one of the 183 sessions.

[poorgradstudent]

Torture was inflicted. We’ve known this for years. It was authorized from the highest level of the previous administration (either GW or Cheney). We’ve also known that for years.

We need to set policies in place to make sure it never happens again, and move on. Prosecuting the previous administration or those who were just following orders would only muck the country down in more partisan bickering while there are bigger issues at hand (Economy, Iraq, Afghanistan, Health Care).

[poorgradstudent]

Torture was inflicted. We’ve known this for years. It was authorized from the highest level of the previous administration (either GW or Cheney). We’ve also known that for years.

We need to set policies in place to make sure it never happens again, and move on. Prosecuting the previous administration or those who were just following orders would only muck the country down in more partisan bickering while there are bigger issues at hand (Economy, Iraq, Afghanistan, Health Care).

[poorgradstudent]

Torture was inflicted. We’ve known this for years. It was authorized from the highest level of the previous administration (either GW or Cheney). We’ve also known that for years.

We need to set policies in place to make sure it never happens again, and move on. Prosecuting the previous administration or those who were just following orders would only muck the country down in more partisan bickering while there are bigger issues at hand (Economy, Iraq, Afghanistan, Health Care).

[poorgradstudent]

Torture was inflicted. We’ve known this for years. It was authorized from the highest level of the previous administration (either GW or Cheney). We’ve also known that for years.

We need to set policies in place to make sure it never happens again, and move on. Prosecuting the previous administration or those who were just following orders would only muck the country down in more partisan bickering while there are bigger issues at hand (Economy, Iraq, Afghanistan, Health Care).

[Author]

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