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April 17, 2009 at 10:06 AM #383511April 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM #382879
Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]You would be amazed what sitting down with someone over a period of hours or days can produce in terms of useful intelligence.[/quote]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Afx: I’m not suggesting being “buddy buddy” with them. There are plenty of effective techniques that can be used, and most of these incorporate perfectly legal methods. For instance, we used to interrogate “platoon” style, meaning we would question prisoners in teams, and each team would go for 6 to 8 hour stretches. It was extremely effective and this same technique is used by US law enforcement, including the FBI.
Another technique would be to sleep deprive someone for a period of days, while playing tapes of a “victim” screaming in agony (supposedly while being tortured) during that period. The prisoner would then be led into a room with a single chair in the middle, torture implements on a table to the side, and blood on the floor. The blood was pig’s blood, the tape was actually one of us screaming and the torture implements had never been used. The prisoner, however, didn’t know any of that and was generally happy to help us in any way that he could. The mere threat of punishment and pain, combined with the sleep deprivation, was hugely effective.
April 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM #383149Participant[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]You would be amazed what sitting down with someone over a period of hours or days can produce in terms of useful intelligence.[/quote]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Afx: I’m not suggesting being “buddy buddy” with them. There are plenty of effective techniques that can be used, and most of these incorporate perfectly legal methods. For instance, we used to interrogate “platoon” style, meaning we would question prisoners in teams, and each team would go for 6 to 8 hour stretches. It was extremely effective and this same technique is used by US law enforcement, including the FBI.
Another technique would be to sleep deprive someone for a period of days, while playing tapes of a “victim” screaming in agony (supposedly while being tortured) during that period. The prisoner would then be led into a room with a single chair in the middle, torture implements on a table to the side, and blood on the floor. The blood was pig’s blood, the tape was actually one of us screaming and the torture implements had never been used. The prisoner, however, didn’t know any of that and was generally happy to help us in any way that he could. The mere threat of punishment and pain, combined with the sleep deprivation, was hugely effective.
April 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM #383340Participant[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]You would be amazed what sitting down with someone over a period of hours or days can produce in terms of useful intelligence.[/quote]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Afx: I’m not suggesting being “buddy buddy” with them. There are plenty of effective techniques that can be used, and most of these incorporate perfectly legal methods. For instance, we used to interrogate “platoon” style, meaning we would question prisoners in teams, and each team would go for 6 to 8 hour stretches. It was extremely effective and this same technique is used by US law enforcement, including the FBI.
Another technique would be to sleep deprive someone for a period of days, while playing tapes of a “victim” screaming in agony (supposedly while being tortured) during that period. The prisoner would then be led into a room with a single chair in the middle, torture implements on a table to the side, and blood on the floor. The blood was pig’s blood, the tape was actually one of us screaming and the torture implements had never been used. The prisoner, however, didn’t know any of that and was generally happy to help us in any way that he could. The mere threat of punishment and pain, combined with the sleep deprivation, was hugely effective.
April 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM #383387Participant[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]You would be amazed what sitting down with someone over a period of hours or days can produce in terms of useful intelligence.[/quote]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Afx: I’m not suggesting being “buddy buddy” with them. There are plenty of effective techniques that can be used, and most of these incorporate perfectly legal methods. For instance, we used to interrogate “platoon” style, meaning we would question prisoners in teams, and each team would go for 6 to 8 hour stretches. It was extremely effective and this same technique is used by US law enforcement, including the FBI.
Another technique would be to sleep deprive someone for a period of days, while playing tapes of a “victim” screaming in agony (supposedly while being tortured) during that period. The prisoner would then be led into a room with a single chair in the middle, torture implements on a table to the side, and blood on the floor. The blood was pig’s blood, the tape was actually one of us screaming and the torture implements had never been used. The prisoner, however, didn’t know any of that and was generally happy to help us in any way that he could. The mere threat of punishment and pain, combined with the sleep deprivation, was hugely effective.
April 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM #383516Participant[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]You would be amazed what sitting down with someone over a period of hours or days can produce in terms of useful intelligence.[/quote]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Afx: I’m not suggesting being “buddy buddy” with them. There are plenty of effective techniques that can be used, and most of these incorporate perfectly legal methods. For instance, we used to interrogate “platoon” style, meaning we would question prisoners in teams, and each team would go for 6 to 8 hour stretches. It was extremely effective and this same technique is used by US law enforcement, including the FBI.
Another technique would be to sleep deprive someone for a period of days, while playing tapes of a “victim” screaming in agony (supposedly while being tortured) during that period. The prisoner would then be led into a room with a single chair in the middle, torture implements on a table to the side, and blood on the floor. The blood was pig’s blood, the tape was actually one of us screaming and the torture implements had never been used. The prisoner, however, didn’t know any of that and was generally happy to help us in any way that he could. The mere threat of punishment and pain, combined with the sleep deprivation, was hugely effective.
April 17, 2009 at 10:17 AM #382921Participant[quote=CONCHO]Take a close look at waterboarding and you tell me if you think that is torture or not.
“Waterboarding” sounds like an extreme sport. Let’s just call it “drowning” which is what it is. As for whether it’s torture or not, I’ll take Christopher Hitchens’ word for it.[/quote]
CONCHO: Anyone that’s been through SERE School or E&E (Escape and Evade) can tell you all about waterboarding. I’d definitely consider it torture, but many don’t (especially those that have never had it done to them).
My point is, where do you draw the line? I know what I consider torture and I saw all manner of horrible things done to others and nearly all of it with the tacit approval of the US government. This was well before 9/11 and Gitmo and well after Vietnam.
The government will do whatever it deems necessary and, more importantly, whatever it can get away with, in pursuit of it’s goals (which aren’t always OUR goals).
April 17, 2009 at 10:17 AM #383190Participant[quote=CONCHO]Take a close look at waterboarding and you tell me if you think that is torture or not.
“Waterboarding” sounds like an extreme sport. Let’s just call it “drowning” which is what it is. As for whether it’s torture or not, I’ll take Christopher Hitchens’ word for it.[/quote]
CONCHO: Anyone that’s been through SERE School or E&E (Escape and Evade) can tell you all about waterboarding. I’d definitely consider it torture, but many don’t (especially those that have never had it done to them).
My point is, where do you draw the line? I know what I consider torture and I saw all manner of horrible things done to others and nearly all of it with the tacit approval of the US government. This was well before 9/11 and Gitmo and well after Vietnam.
The government will do whatever it deems necessary and, more importantly, whatever it can get away with, in pursuit of it’s goals (which aren’t always OUR goals).
April 17, 2009 at 10:17 AM #383381Participant[quote=CONCHO]Take a close look at waterboarding and you tell me if you think that is torture or not.
“Waterboarding” sounds like an extreme sport. Let’s just call it “drowning” which is what it is. As for whether it’s torture or not, I’ll take Christopher Hitchens’ word for it.[/quote]
CONCHO: Anyone that’s been through SERE School or E&E (Escape and Evade) can tell you all about waterboarding. I’d definitely consider it torture, but many don’t (especially those that have never had it done to them).
My point is, where do you draw the line? I know what I consider torture and I saw all manner of horrible things done to others and nearly all of it with the tacit approval of the US government. This was well before 9/11 and Gitmo and well after Vietnam.
The government will do whatever it deems necessary and, more importantly, whatever it can get away with, in pursuit of it’s goals (which aren’t always OUR goals).
April 17, 2009 at 10:17 AM #383428Participant[quote=CONCHO]Take a close look at waterboarding and you tell me if you think that is torture or not.
“Waterboarding” sounds like an extreme sport. Let’s just call it “drowning” which is what it is. As for whether it’s torture or not, I’ll take Christopher Hitchens’ word for it.[/quote]
CONCHO: Anyone that’s been through SERE School or E&E (Escape and Evade) can tell you all about waterboarding. I’d definitely consider it torture, but many don’t (especially those that have never had it done to them).
My point is, where do you draw the line? I know what I consider torture and I saw all manner of horrible things done to others and nearly all of it with the tacit approval of the US government. This was well before 9/11 and Gitmo and well after Vietnam.
The government will do whatever it deems necessary and, more importantly, whatever it can get away with, in pursuit of it’s goals (which aren’t always OUR goals).
April 17, 2009 at 10:17 AM #383557Participant[quote=CONCHO]Take a close look at waterboarding and you tell me if you think that is torture or not.
“Waterboarding” sounds like an extreme sport. Let’s just call it “drowning” which is what it is. As for whether it’s torture or not, I’ll take Christopher Hitchens’ word for it.[/quote]
CONCHO: Anyone that’s been through SERE School or E&E (Escape and Evade) can tell you all about waterboarding. I’d definitely consider it torture, but many don’t (especially those that have never had it done to them).
My point is, where do you draw the line? I know what I consider torture and I saw all manner of horrible things done to others and nearly all of it with the tacit approval of the US government. This was well before 9/11 and Gitmo and well after Vietnam.
The government will do whatever it deems necessary and, more importantly, whatever it can get away with, in pursuit of it’s goals (which aren’t always OUR goals).
April 17, 2009 at 11:39 AM #383029CardiffBaseball
Participant[quote=afx114]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Maybe Sadaam after some time…saw the humor in being portrayed as Satan’s gay dom in the South Park movie. Apparently the marines played it for him a lot.
April 17, 2009 at 11:39 AM #383299Participant[quote=afx114]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Maybe Sadaam after some time…saw the humor in being portrayed as Satan’s gay dom in the South Park movie. Apparently the marines played it for him a lot.
April 17, 2009 at 11:39 AM #383486Participant[quote=afx114]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Maybe Sadaam after some time…saw the humor in being portrayed as Satan’s gay dom in the South Park movie. Apparently the marines played it for him a lot.
April 17, 2009 at 11:39 AM #383534Participant[quote=afx114]
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn’t Saddam reveal some stuff to his guards after months of being buddy-buddy with them? What we should do with suspected terrorists is throw back a few beers with them, play some Lego Star Wars, break the ice, and shoot the shit — who knows what they might reveal.
[/quote]Maybe Sadaam after some time…saw the humor in being portrayed as Satan’s gay dom in the South Park movie. Apparently the marines played it for him a lot.
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