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Allan from Fallbrook.
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June 8, 2009 at 4:49 PM #413158June 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM #412464
dbapig
Participant[quote=afx114][quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]
Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?
The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?
At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?[/quote]
There isn’t really any good option. That’s why NK has survived as long as it has even though the other communist nations are gone, mostly.
No action can really be taken that will start a full scale war. No one’s content to let the situation simmer as it is but there simply isn’t any other option.There is however one way out. And that way lies through a place called Beijing.
Very unfortunately, Beijing isn’t a very reliable partner in this situation. They’d much prefer to have NK stay as a satellite state and act as a buffer against US influence on the Asian continent. It’s BS that China doesn’t want NK to collapse to prevent the flood of hungry N Korea flooding China. China simply doesn’t want to lose a useful pawn in the game it’s playing with US. However it seems more and more that China’s calculation is coming back to bite itself. If you were leading China, which one would you want? A unified Korean peninsula stable/prosperous to trade with? Or a little brat that is N Korea that might give Japan the reason to arm up and possibly nukes?
Beijing has to realize it can’t have it both ways…
June 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM #412702Participant[quote=afx114][quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]
Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?
The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?
At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?[/quote]
There isn’t really any good option. That’s why NK has survived as long as it has even though the other communist nations are gone, mostly.
No action can really be taken that will start a full scale war. No one’s content to let the situation simmer as it is but there simply isn’t any other option.There is however one way out. And that way lies through a place called Beijing.
Very unfortunately, Beijing isn’t a very reliable partner in this situation. They’d much prefer to have NK stay as a satellite state and act as a buffer against US influence on the Asian continent. It’s BS that China doesn’t want NK to collapse to prevent the flood of hungry N Korea flooding China. China simply doesn’t want to lose a useful pawn in the game it’s playing with US. However it seems more and more that China’s calculation is coming back to bite itself. If you were leading China, which one would you want? A unified Korean peninsula stable/prosperous to trade with? Or a little brat that is N Korea that might give Japan the reason to arm up and possibly nukes?
Beijing has to realize it can’t have it both ways…
June 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM #412948Participant[quote=afx114][quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]
Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?
The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?
At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?[/quote]
There isn’t really any good option. That’s why NK has survived as long as it has even though the other communist nations are gone, mostly.
No action can really be taken that will start a full scale war. No one’s content to let the situation simmer as it is but there simply isn’t any other option.There is however one way out. And that way lies through a place called Beijing.
Very unfortunately, Beijing isn’t a very reliable partner in this situation. They’d much prefer to have NK stay as a satellite state and act as a buffer against US influence on the Asian continent. It’s BS that China doesn’t want NK to collapse to prevent the flood of hungry N Korea flooding China. China simply doesn’t want to lose a useful pawn in the game it’s playing with US. However it seems more and more that China’s calculation is coming back to bite itself. If you were leading China, which one would you want? A unified Korean peninsula stable/prosperous to trade with? Or a little brat that is N Korea that might give Japan the reason to arm up and possibly nukes?
Beijing has to realize it can’t have it both ways…
June 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM #413013Participant[quote=afx114][quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]
Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?
The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?
At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?[/quote]
There isn’t really any good option. That’s why NK has survived as long as it has even though the other communist nations are gone, mostly.
No action can really be taken that will start a full scale war. No one’s content to let the situation simmer as it is but there simply isn’t any other option.There is however one way out. And that way lies through a place called Beijing.
Very unfortunately, Beijing isn’t a very reliable partner in this situation. They’d much prefer to have NK stay as a satellite state and act as a buffer against US influence on the Asian continent. It’s BS that China doesn’t want NK to collapse to prevent the flood of hungry N Korea flooding China. China simply doesn’t want to lose a useful pawn in the game it’s playing with US. However it seems more and more that China’s calculation is coming back to bite itself. If you were leading China, which one would you want? A unified Korean peninsula stable/prosperous to trade with? Or a little brat that is N Korea that might give Japan the reason to arm up and possibly nukes?
Beijing has to realize it can’t have it both ways…
June 8, 2009 at 5:09 PM #413163Participant[quote=afx114][quote=dbapig]”Pyongyang has the ability to start a new Korean War, but not to survive one.”[/quote]
Yes, so what are our options then? Continue to “appease?” Start a war to kick him out? Covert operations? Exploding cigars? Sounds like we’re content to let the old man play with his toys and let him bask in his own little ego in his own little world for a little while longer until he expires. What then?
The other option? A lengthy, bloody war resulting in tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dead? Maybe a million? Is this the option that the anti-“appeasement” crowd would prefer?
At what point does pragmatism become appeasement, or vice versa?[/quote]
There isn’t really any good option. That’s why NK has survived as long as it has even though the other communist nations are gone, mostly.
No action can really be taken that will start a full scale war. No one’s content to let the situation simmer as it is but there simply isn’t any other option.There is however one way out. And that way lies through a place called Beijing.
Very unfortunately, Beijing isn’t a very reliable partner in this situation. They’d much prefer to have NK stay as a satellite state and act as a buffer against US influence on the Asian continent. It’s BS that China doesn’t want NK to collapse to prevent the flood of hungry N Korea flooding China. China simply doesn’t want to lose a useful pawn in the game it’s playing with US. However it seems more and more that China’s calculation is coming back to bite itself. If you were leading China, which one would you want? A unified Korean peninsula stable/prosperous to trade with? Or a little brat that is N Korea that might give Japan the reason to arm up and possibly nukes?
Beijing has to realize it can’t have it both ways…
June 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM #412469Arraya
ParticipantBeing that Beijing is pushing for global reserve currency status and by extension global hegemon. NK publicly smacking DC in the face furthers that agenda on the world stage. All they have to do is “fix” the situation and it would further erode confidence in the US. So essentially Pyongyang acting up benefits Beijing, if it can be managed. Maybe some buttons are being pushed behind the scenes?
June 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM #412707ParticipantBeing that Beijing is pushing for global reserve currency status and by extension global hegemon. NK publicly smacking DC in the face furthers that agenda on the world stage. All they have to do is “fix” the situation and it would further erode confidence in the US. So essentially Pyongyang acting up benefits Beijing, if it can be managed. Maybe some buttons are being pushed behind the scenes?
June 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM #412953ParticipantBeing that Beijing is pushing for global reserve currency status and by extension global hegemon. NK publicly smacking DC in the face furthers that agenda on the world stage. All they have to do is “fix” the situation and it would further erode confidence in the US. So essentially Pyongyang acting up benefits Beijing, if it can be managed. Maybe some buttons are being pushed behind the scenes?
June 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM #413017ParticipantBeing that Beijing is pushing for global reserve currency status and by extension global hegemon. NK publicly smacking DC in the face furthers that agenda on the world stage. All they have to do is “fix” the situation and it would further erode confidence in the US. So essentially Pyongyang acting up benefits Beijing, if it can be managed. Maybe some buttons are being pushed behind the scenes?
June 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM #413168ParticipantBeing that Beijing is pushing for global reserve currency status and by extension global hegemon. NK publicly smacking DC in the face furthers that agenda on the world stage. All they have to do is “fix” the situation and it would further erode confidence in the US. So essentially Pyongyang acting up benefits Beijing, if it can be managed. Maybe some buttons are being pushed behind the scenes?
June 9, 2009 at 1:39 AM #412569Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
It’s also interesting to note that North Korea does not consider South Korea it’s main foe: The US holds that role. South Korea considers North Korea their main enemy, but not vice versa.Either way, a second Korean War would be devastating and I don’t doubt that we’d see WMD and even nukes if Kim had them in deployable fashion. I don’t seriously think he wants war, especially because he knows the final outcome, but it’s a convenient bargaining chip/tool for him to use.
[/quote]it’s quite late but I must comment on this statement that NKorea doesn’t consider SKorea as its main enemy quite irks me. That idea is actually a very clever piece of propaganda NKorea has been spreading for a very long time. Despite the silly propaganda pieces they put up on their state TV/newspaper, their psychological operation against SKorea is quite sophisticate and experienced. NKorea is just taking advantage of the fact that N and S Korea shared same blood. But it’s BS that NKorea only considers US as its main enemy. It considers SKorea as it main enemy too.
June 9, 2009 at 1:39 AM #412805Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
It’s also interesting to note that North Korea does not consider South Korea it’s main foe: The US holds that role. South Korea considers North Korea their main enemy, but not vice versa.Either way, a second Korean War would be devastating and I don’t doubt that we’d see WMD and even nukes if Kim had them in deployable fashion. I don’t seriously think he wants war, especially because he knows the final outcome, but it’s a convenient bargaining chip/tool for him to use.
[/quote]it’s quite late but I must comment on this statement that NKorea doesn’t consider SKorea as its main enemy quite irks me. That idea is actually a very clever piece of propaganda NKorea has been spreading for a very long time. Despite the silly propaganda pieces they put up on their state TV/newspaper, their psychological operation against SKorea is quite sophisticate and experienced. NKorea is just taking advantage of the fact that N and S Korea shared same blood. But it’s BS that NKorea only considers US as its main enemy. It considers SKorea as it main enemy too.
June 9, 2009 at 1:39 AM #413051Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
It’s also interesting to note that North Korea does not consider South Korea it’s main foe: The US holds that role. South Korea considers North Korea their main enemy, but not vice versa.Either way, a second Korean War would be devastating and I don’t doubt that we’d see WMD and even nukes if Kim had them in deployable fashion. I don’t seriously think he wants war, especially because he knows the final outcome, but it’s a convenient bargaining chip/tool for him to use.
[/quote]it’s quite late but I must comment on this statement that NKorea doesn’t consider SKorea as its main enemy quite irks me. That idea is actually a very clever piece of propaganda NKorea has been spreading for a very long time. Despite the silly propaganda pieces they put up on their state TV/newspaper, their psychological operation against SKorea is quite sophisticate and experienced. NKorea is just taking advantage of the fact that N and S Korea shared same blood. But it’s BS that NKorea only considers US as its main enemy. It considers SKorea as it main enemy too.
June 9, 2009 at 1:39 AM #413117Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
It’s also interesting to note that North Korea does not consider South Korea it’s main foe: The US holds that role. South Korea considers North Korea their main enemy, but not vice versa.Either way, a second Korean War would be devastating and I don’t doubt that we’d see WMD and even nukes if Kim had them in deployable fashion. I don’t seriously think he wants war, especially because he knows the final outcome, but it’s a convenient bargaining chip/tool for him to use.
[/quote]it’s quite late but I must comment on this statement that NKorea doesn’t consider SKorea as its main enemy quite irks me. That idea is actually a very clever piece of propaganda NKorea has been spreading for a very long time. Despite the silly propaganda pieces they put up on their state TV/newspaper, their psychological operation against SKorea is quite sophisticate and experienced. NKorea is just taking advantage of the fact that N and S Korea shared same blood. But it’s BS that NKorea only considers US as its main enemy. It considers SKorea as it main enemy too.
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