OT: “Bob Rubin Just Wants to be Cuddled”

[Anonymous]

You make a good point, babu. I know quite a few former ‘sluts’ who have since settled down. And they would be pissed and ‘divorcing for half’ if there husbands ever cheated on them. In most cases, their husbands met them later in life and don’t know anything about their younger, wilder days.

I actually met my wife after we had both graduated from college. I never ask her about what she was like before she met me because I don’t want to know. I prefer to keep the little fantasy in my head that she was a little angel before she met me.

[Anonymous]

IForget, those are wise words.

[Anonymous]

IForget, those are wise words.

[Anonymous]

IForget, those are wise words.

[Anonymous]

IForget, those are wise words.

[Anonymous]

IForget, those are wise words.

[davelj]

[quote=Russell]Your observations are still missing some things, Dave. [/quote]

They generally are. Few have the time or inclination to go into great detail on the internet.

[quote=Russell]
It’s just a very high percentage of those 50% who don’t play around and many of those who do but quit(like Tiger), could still venture out one way or another. I used to participate in a men’s closed door discussion group and I heard a lot about it from some pretty homely dudes.Going to a prostitute is “cheating” for a person in a committed monogamous relationship, right? Going to a socially lower but otherwise willing woman? Anyone can do those things as far as I know? Trust me the guys who really want some variation don’t say “no, I guess not, because the only choices I have are prostitutes .” Being gay in a heterosexual commitment doesn’t stop someone from cheating either. It might increase the likelyhood? [/quote]

Tiger hasn’t “quit.” He’s just marketing to the Public at the moment. I think we all know that.

Yes, of course seeing prostitutes and sleeping with any other woman, for whatever reason, are cheating. The men who really want variation (“fantasize,” if you will) but don’t cheat do so largely because the fear of getting caught outweighs the perceived benefit.

[quote=Russell]
A lot of people find a way to satisfy themselves that a variety of partners doesn’t add up to much. Usually we play the field and decide we want to settle down,hopefully choosing well. Many people find going from one to the next a shallow, not so soulful existence.You can get your tires slashed too. So as the temptation doesn’t go away either does this attitude/belief that the grass is not greener.

The men who respect monogamy do it because:
They gave their word that they would not play around and they have more to lose,including a high quality relationship/life experience if they do.
[/quote]

I think it has little to do with “giving one’s word.” I think it has much more to do with fear and consequences of getting caught. Which is logical, don’t get me wrong.

In terms of a variety of partners not “adding up to much,” nothing really adds up to much in the end, in my view, including having a family. My view – clearly not shared by everyone – is that life is just a big adventure and that wives and kids are obstacles to adventure. Again, I realize that others feel differently. Different strokes for different folks.

[quote=Russell]
While we are human we do not see that simple sexual conquests are going to add up to a tangible reward, compared to the arrangement we entered and share. Just seems of many possible “mature” paths to take, none of which are perfect.[/quote]

You say “tangible reward,” I say “tangible anchor.” You say tomato, I say tomahto. I don’t even know what “mature” path means… I certainly don’t equate marriage and/or having children as “mature.” Often it appears to be quite the opposite. But I can see how folks who are married with kids would like to view themselves as “mature,” thus self-validating their choices.

[quote=Russell]
It’s not a matter of denying yourself what you “want”. It’s saying “I want this more than that. No different than saying “I want to be healthy more than I want a completely self-indulgent diet”, even if are surrounded by an amazing smorgasbord of desserts.[/quote]

Agreed. It’s about making the optimal choice given your preferences and situation. But in making that optimal choice, most folks do have to choose to deny themselves one thing (a variety of partners, just to use one example) in exchange for another thing (marriage, kids, etc.). Trade-offs, by definition, involve giving up one thing because the other thing is of greater perceived value. But you’re still giving something up…

[davelj]

[quote=Russell]Your observations are still missing some things, Dave. [/quote]

They generally are. Few have the time or inclination to go into great detail on the internet.

[quote=Russell]
It’s just a very high percentage of those 50% who don’t play around and many of those who do but quit(like Tiger), could still venture out one way or another. I used to participate in a men’s closed door discussion group and I heard a lot about it from some pretty homely dudes.Going to a prostitute is “cheating” for a person in a committed monogamous relationship, right? Going to a socially lower but otherwise willing woman? Anyone can do those things as far as I know? Trust me the guys who really want some variation don’t say “no, I guess not, because the only choices I have are prostitutes .” Being gay in a heterosexual commitment doesn’t stop someone from cheating either. It might increase the likelyhood? [/quote]

Tiger hasn’t “quit.” He’s just marketing to the Public at the moment. I think we all know that.

Yes, of course seeing prostitutes and sleeping with any other woman, for whatever reason, are cheating. The men who really want variation (“fantasize,” if you will) but don’t cheat do so largely because the fear of getting caught outweighs the perceived benefit.

[quote=Russell]
A lot of people find a way to satisfy themselves that a variety of partners doesn’t add up to much. Usually we play the field and decide we want to settle down,hopefully choosing well. Many people find going from one to the next a shallow, not so soulful existence.You can get your tires slashed too. So as the temptation doesn’t go away either does this attitude/belief that the grass is not greener.

The men who respect monogamy do it because:
They gave their word that they would not play around and they have more to lose,including a high quality relationship/life experience if they do.
[/quote]

I think it has little to do with “giving one’s word.” I think it has much more to do with fear and consequences of getting caught. Which is logical, don’t get me wrong.

In terms of a variety of partners not “adding up to much,” nothing really adds up to much in the end, in my view, including having a family. My view – clearly not shared by everyone – is that life is just a big adventure and that wives and kids are obstacles to adventure. Again, I realize that others feel differently. Different strokes for different folks.

[quote=Russell]
While we are human we do not see that simple sexual conquests are going to add up to a tangible reward, compared to the arrangement we entered and share. Just seems of many possible “mature” paths to take, none of which are perfect.[/quote]

You say “tangible reward,” I say “tangible anchor.” You say tomato, I say tomahto. I don’t even know what “mature” path means… I certainly don’t equate marriage and/or having children as “mature.” Often it appears to be quite the opposite. But I can see how folks who are married with kids would like to view themselves as “mature,” thus self-validating their choices.

[quote=Russell]
It’s not a matter of denying yourself what you “want”. It’s saying “I want this more than that. No different than saying “I want to be healthy more than I want a completely self-indulgent diet”, even if are surrounded by an amazing smorgasbord of desserts.[/quote]

Agreed. It’s about making the optimal choice given your preferences and situation. But in making that optimal choice, most folks do have to choose to deny themselves one thing (a variety of partners, just to use one example) in exchange for another thing (marriage, kids, etc.). Trade-offs, by definition, involve giving up one thing because the other thing is of greater perceived value. But you’re still giving something up…

[davelj]

[quote=Russell]Your observations are still missing some things, Dave. [/quote]

They generally are. Few have the time or inclination to go into great detail on the internet.

[quote=Russell]
It’s just a very high percentage of those 50% who don’t play around and many of those who do but quit(like Tiger), could still venture out one way or another. I used to participate in a men’s closed door discussion group and I heard a lot about it from some pretty homely dudes.Going to a prostitute is “cheating” for a person in a committed monogamous relationship, right? Going to a socially lower but otherwise willing woman? Anyone can do those things as far as I know? Trust me the guys who really want some variation don’t say “no, I guess not, because the only choices I have are prostitutes .” Being gay in a heterosexual commitment doesn’t stop someone from cheating either. It might increase the likelyhood? [/quote]

Tiger hasn’t “quit.” He’s just marketing to the Public at the moment. I think we all know that.

Yes, of course seeing prostitutes and sleeping with any other woman, for whatever reason, are cheating. The men who really want variation (“fantasize,” if you will) but don’t cheat do so largely because the fear of getting caught outweighs the perceived benefit.

[quote=Russell]
A lot of people find a way to satisfy themselves that a variety of partners doesn’t add up to much. Usually we play the field and decide we want to settle down,hopefully choosing well. Many people find going from one to the next a shallow, not so soulful existence.You can get your tires slashed too. So as the temptation doesn’t go away either does this attitude/belief that the grass is not greener.

The men who respect monogamy do it because:
They gave their word that they would not play around and they have more to lose,including a high quality relationship/life experience if they do.
[/quote]

I think it has little to do with “giving one’s word.” I think it has much more to do with fear and consequences of getting caught. Which is logical, don’t get me wrong.

In terms of a variety of partners not “adding up to much,” nothing really adds up to much in the end, in my view, including having a family. My view – clearly not shared by everyone – is that life is just a big adventure and that wives and kids are obstacles to adventure. Again, I realize that others feel differently. Different strokes for different folks.

[quote=Russell]
While we are human we do not see that simple sexual conquests are going to add up to a tangible reward, compared to the arrangement we entered and share. Just seems of many possible “mature” paths to take, none of which are perfect.[/quote]

You say “tangible reward,” I say “tangible anchor.” You say tomato, I say tomahto. I don’t even know what “mature” path means… I certainly don’t equate marriage and/or having children as “mature.” Often it appears to be quite the opposite. But I can see how folks who are married with kids would like to view themselves as “mature,” thus self-validating their choices.

[quote=Russell]
It’s not a matter of denying yourself what you “want”. It’s saying “I want this more than that. No different than saying “I want to be healthy more than I want a completely self-indulgent diet”, even if are surrounded by an amazing smorgasbord of desserts.[/quote]

Agreed. It’s about making the optimal choice given your preferences and situation. But in making that optimal choice, most folks do have to choose to deny themselves one thing (a variety of partners, just to use one example) in exchange for another thing (marriage, kids, etc.). Trade-offs, by definition, involve giving up one thing because the other thing is of greater perceived value. But you’re still giving something up…

[davelj]

[quote=Russell]Your observations are still missing some things, Dave. [/quote]

They generally are. Few have the time or inclination to go into great detail on the internet.

[quote=Russell]
It’s just a very high percentage of those 50% who don’t play around and many of those who do but quit(like Tiger), could still venture out one way or another. I used to participate in a men’s closed door discussion group and I heard a lot about it from some pretty homely dudes.Going to a prostitute is “cheating” for a person in a committed monogamous relationship, right? Going to a socially lower but otherwise willing woman? Anyone can do those things as far as I know? Trust me the guys who really want some variation don’t say “no, I guess not, because the only choices I have are prostitutes .” Being gay in a heterosexual commitment doesn’t stop someone from cheating either. It might increase the likelyhood? [/quote]

Tiger hasn’t “quit.” He’s just marketing to the Public at the moment. I think we all know that.

Yes, of course seeing prostitutes and sleeping with any other woman, for whatever reason, are cheating. The men who really want variation (“fantasize,” if you will) but don’t cheat do so largely because the fear of getting caught outweighs the perceived benefit.

[quote=Russell]
A lot of people find a way to satisfy themselves that a variety of partners doesn’t add up to much. Usually we play the field and decide we want to settle down,hopefully choosing well. Many people find going from one to the next a shallow, not so soulful existence.You can get your tires slashed too. So as the temptation doesn’t go away either does this attitude/belief that the grass is not greener.

The men who respect monogamy do it because:
They gave their word that they would not play around and they have more to lose,including a high quality relationship/life experience if they do.
[/quote]

I think it has little to do with “giving one’s word.” I think it has much more to do with fear and consequences of getting caught. Which is logical, don’t get me wrong.

In terms of a variety of partners not “adding up to much,” nothing really adds up to much in the end, in my view, including having a family. My view – clearly not shared by everyone – is that life is just a big adventure and that wives and kids are obstacles to adventure. Again, I realize that others feel differently. Different strokes for different folks.

[quote=Russell]
While we are human we do not see that simple sexual conquests are going to add up to a tangible reward, compared to the arrangement we entered and share. Just seems of many possible “mature” paths to take, none of which are perfect.[/quote]

You say “tangible reward,” I say “tangible anchor.” You say tomato, I say tomahto. I don’t even know what “mature” path means… I certainly don’t equate marriage and/or having children as “mature.” Often it appears to be quite the opposite. But I can see how folks who are married with kids would like to view themselves as “mature,” thus self-validating their choices.

[quote=Russell]
It’s not a matter of denying yourself what you “want”. It’s saying “I want this more than that. No different than saying “I want to be healthy more than I want a completely self-indulgent diet”, even if are surrounded by an amazing smorgasbord of desserts.[/quote]

Agreed. It’s about making the optimal choice given your preferences and situation. But in making that optimal choice, most folks do have to choose to deny themselves one thing (a variety of partners, just to use one example) in exchange for another thing (marriage, kids, etc.). Trade-offs, by definition, involve giving up one thing because the other thing is of greater perceived value. But you’re still giving something up…

[davelj]

[quote=Russell]Your observations are still missing some things, Dave. [/quote]

They generally are. Few have the time or inclination to go into great detail on the internet.

[quote=Russell]
It’s just a very high percentage of those 50% who don’t play around and many of those who do but quit(like Tiger), could still venture out one way or another. I used to participate in a men’s closed door discussion group and I heard a lot about it from some pretty homely dudes.Going to a prostitute is “cheating” for a person in a committed monogamous relationship, right? Going to a socially lower but otherwise willing woman? Anyone can do those things as far as I know? Trust me the guys who really want some variation don’t say “no, I guess not, because the only choices I have are prostitutes .” Being gay in a heterosexual commitment doesn’t stop someone from cheating either. It might increase the likelyhood? [/quote]

Tiger hasn’t “quit.” He’s just marketing to the Public at the moment. I think we all know that.

Yes, of course seeing prostitutes and sleeping with any other woman, for whatever reason, are cheating. The men who really want variation (“fantasize,” if you will) but don’t cheat do so largely because the fear of getting caught outweighs the perceived benefit.

[quote=Russell]
A lot of people find a way to satisfy themselves that a variety of partners doesn’t add up to much. Usually we play the field and decide we want to settle down,hopefully choosing well. Many people find going from one to the next a shallow, not so soulful existence.You can get your tires slashed too. So as the temptation doesn’t go away either does this attitude/belief that the grass is not greener.

The men who respect monogamy do it because:
They gave their word that they would not play around and they have more to lose,including a high quality relationship/life experience if they do.
[/quote]

I think it has little to do with “giving one’s word.” I think it has much more to do with fear and consequences of getting caught. Which is logical, don’t get me wrong.

In terms of a variety of partners not “adding up to much,” nothing really adds up to much in the end, in my view, including having a family. My view – clearly not shared by everyone – is that life is just a big adventure and that wives and kids are obstacles to adventure. Again, I realize that others feel differently. Different strokes for different folks.

[quote=Russell]
While we are human we do not see that simple sexual conquests are going to add up to a tangible reward, compared to the arrangement we entered and share. Just seems of many possible “mature” paths to take, none of which are perfect.[/quote]

You say “tangible reward,” I say “tangible anchor.” You say tomato, I say tomahto. I don’t even know what “mature” path means… I certainly don’t equate marriage and/or having children as “mature.” Often it appears to be quite the opposite. But I can see how folks who are married with kids would like to view themselves as “mature,” thus self-validating their choices.

[quote=Russell]
It’s not a matter of denying yourself what you “want”. It’s saying “I want this more than that. No different than saying “I want to be healthy more than I want a completely self-indulgent diet”, even if are surrounded by an amazing smorgasbord of desserts.[/quote]

Agreed. It’s about making the optimal choice given your preferences and situation. But in making that optimal choice, most folks do have to choose to deny themselves one thing (a variety of partners, just to use one example) in exchange for another thing (marriage, kids, etc.). Trade-offs, by definition, involve giving up one thing because the other thing is of greater perceived value. But you’re still giving something up…

[davelj]

[quote=babu]The premise of this whole discussion is discriminatory against men and
very condescending. Why are we talking only about MEN who are not
faithful?

Davelj, I’m surprised that you would frame the question the
way you did. If memory serves me well, you have had many useful
and insightful comments about gender relations before, but on this one
the setup missed the mark.[/quote]

Since Bob Rubin is a man and I’m a man, I started this thread from a male angle. Clearly, if you want to bring the issue of women who are unfaithful into the conversation, that’s o.k. by me.

If I have made “useful and insightful comments about gender relations” in the past it was by accident. I make a hobby of studying human relations, but it’s just a hobby. I ain’t no perfeshnul. And obviously my views are well outside of the mainstream (well, what the mainstream is willing to acknowledge, anyway).

I basically agree with the rest of your post. There is a double standard.

[davelj]

[quote=babu]The premise of this whole discussion is discriminatory against men and
very condescending. Why are we talking only about MEN who are not
faithful?

Davelj, I’m surprised that you would frame the question the
way you did. If memory serves me well, you have had many useful
and insightful comments about gender relations before, but on this one
the setup missed the mark.[/quote]

Since Bob Rubin is a man and I’m a man, I started this thread from a male angle. Clearly, if you want to bring the issue of women who are unfaithful into the conversation, that’s o.k. by me.

If I have made “useful and insightful comments about gender relations” in the past it was by accident. I make a hobby of studying human relations, but it’s just a hobby. I ain’t no perfeshnul. And obviously my views are well outside of the mainstream (well, what the mainstream is willing to acknowledge, anyway).

I basically agree with the rest of your post. There is a double standard.

[davelj]

[quote=babu]The premise of this whole discussion is discriminatory against men and
very condescending. Why are we talking only about MEN who are not
faithful?

Davelj, I’m surprised that you would frame the question the
way you did. If memory serves me well, you have had many useful
and insightful comments about gender relations before, but on this one
the setup missed the mark.[/quote]

Since Bob Rubin is a man and I’m a man, I started this thread from a male angle. Clearly, if you want to bring the issue of women who are unfaithful into the conversation, that’s o.k. by me.

If I have made “useful and insightful comments about gender relations” in the past it was by accident. I make a hobby of studying human relations, but it’s just a hobby. I ain’t no perfeshnul. And obviously my views are well outside of the mainstream (well, what the mainstream is willing to acknowledge, anyway).

I basically agree with the rest of your post. There is a double standard.

[davelj]

[quote=babu]The premise of this whole discussion is discriminatory against men and
very condescending. Why are we talking only about MEN who are not
faithful?

Davelj, I’m surprised that you would frame the question the
way you did. If memory serves me well, you have had many useful
and insightful comments about gender relations before, but on this one
the setup missed the mark.[/quote]

Since Bob Rubin is a man and I’m a man, I started this thread from a male angle. Clearly, if you want to bring the issue of women who are unfaithful into the conversation, that’s o.k. by me.

If I have made “useful and insightful comments about gender relations” in the past it was by accident. I make a hobby of studying human relations, but it’s just a hobby. I ain’t no perfeshnul. And obviously my views are well outside of the mainstream (well, what the mainstream is willing to acknowledge, anyway).

I basically agree with the rest of your post. There is a double standard.

[Author]

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