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Allan from Fallbrook.
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August 10, 2008 at 10:37 PM #255792August 10, 2008 at 10:37 PM #255840
NotCranky
ParticipantYeah, I am getting over it but I don’t see why people who don’t post on the OT threads come with insult laden complaints six pages later, after having been forced to read the “drivel”. There are 15 threads in active forums and I have omitted reading several of them. It wasn’t even difficult.I don’t disapprove about what those piggs are talking about or question their motives for doing so. If schizo would have properly put this thread in OT wouldn’t have made much, if any difference,as to how it shows up.It would have still got the same play.
Rant offI enjoyed reading the following quote this morning. It seems appropriate as an aside to a recent discussion on this thread?…..
“Democracy is the art of running the circus from inside the monkey cage”. H.L. Mencken.
Mencken made some pretty scathing comments about our system practically guaranteeing an idiot will win each presidential campaign.I guess it shows,again, that the idea, right or wrong, is nothing new… That, my friends, was on topic… for the thread :).
ZK I appreciate your thoughts on skepticism critical thinking also.
Good posts.August 11, 2008 at 9:37 AM #255677gandalf
ParticipantWhat about me, rus? Aw… I’m offended.
(Kidding, of course.)
Hey rus, seriously. I want to ask you a question. I’m all for truth and honesty, skepticism and critical thinking, civil exchange of views, good dialog and debate and all that, but what makes you think the partisans (eg. liars) are going to stop lying (spewing bullshit), unless we confront them?
We’re going through another cycle in US history where the middle of the country gets marginalized by ranting partisan wingnuts who have no respect for truth, reason, civility or honesty. Their only loyalty is to party. These corrupt BushJr republicans (not the same GOP) are the main perpetrators right now. Clinton was horrible too, so I’m not singling out. Dems only look better by comparison because they’ve been out of power. On balance, I’m convinced it’s generational, boomers, selfish, deceived, and ideological to a fault.
What makes you think they’ll stop by engaging in polite conversation? These are really damn serious times and for the sake of my generation we urgently need to get back to a more centrist, civil, bi-partisan and pragmatic culture of politics. It’s gone way overboard, as Scott McLellan points out.
Answer (from my POV): The wingnuts won’t stop. They never will. They are liars by nature. But we can diminish their standing and cut them down to size by exposing them for what they are, for all of their failures, ignorance and stupidity.
How does a polite and accomodating approach change things?
August 11, 2008 at 9:37 AM #255854ParticipantWhat about me, rus? Aw… I’m offended.
(Kidding, of course.)
Hey rus, seriously. I want to ask you a question. I’m all for truth and honesty, skepticism and critical thinking, civil exchange of views, good dialog and debate and all that, but what makes you think the partisans (eg. liars) are going to stop lying (spewing bullshit), unless we confront them?
We’re going through another cycle in US history where the middle of the country gets marginalized by ranting partisan wingnuts who have no respect for truth, reason, civility or honesty. Their only loyalty is to party. These corrupt BushJr republicans (not the same GOP) are the main perpetrators right now. Clinton was horrible too, so I’m not singling out. Dems only look better by comparison because they’ve been out of power. On balance, I’m convinced it’s generational, boomers, selfish, deceived, and ideological to a fault.
What makes you think they’ll stop by engaging in polite conversation? These are really damn serious times and for the sake of my generation we urgently need to get back to a more centrist, civil, bi-partisan and pragmatic culture of politics. It’s gone way overboard, as Scott McLellan points out.
Answer (from my POV): The wingnuts won’t stop. They never will. They are liars by nature. But we can diminish their standing and cut them down to size by exposing them for what they are, for all of their failures, ignorance and stupidity.
How does a polite and accomodating approach change things?
August 11, 2008 at 9:37 AM #255858ParticipantWhat about me, rus? Aw… I’m offended.
(Kidding, of course.)
Hey rus, seriously. I want to ask you a question. I’m all for truth and honesty, skepticism and critical thinking, civil exchange of views, good dialog and debate and all that, but what makes you think the partisans (eg. liars) are going to stop lying (spewing bullshit), unless we confront them?
We’re going through another cycle in US history where the middle of the country gets marginalized by ranting partisan wingnuts who have no respect for truth, reason, civility or honesty. Their only loyalty is to party. These corrupt BushJr republicans (not the same GOP) are the main perpetrators right now. Clinton was horrible too, so I’m not singling out. Dems only look better by comparison because they’ve been out of power. On balance, I’m convinced it’s generational, boomers, selfish, deceived, and ideological to a fault.
What makes you think they’ll stop by engaging in polite conversation? These are really damn serious times and for the sake of my generation we urgently need to get back to a more centrist, civil, bi-partisan and pragmatic culture of politics. It’s gone way overboard, as Scott McLellan points out.
Answer (from my POV): The wingnuts won’t stop. They never will. They are liars by nature. But we can diminish their standing and cut them down to size by exposing them for what they are, for all of their failures, ignorance and stupidity.
How does a polite and accomodating approach change things?
August 11, 2008 at 9:37 AM #255917ParticipantWhat about me, rus? Aw… I’m offended.
(Kidding, of course.)
Hey rus, seriously. I want to ask you a question. I’m all for truth and honesty, skepticism and critical thinking, civil exchange of views, good dialog and debate and all that, but what makes you think the partisans (eg. liars) are going to stop lying (spewing bullshit), unless we confront them?
We’re going through another cycle in US history where the middle of the country gets marginalized by ranting partisan wingnuts who have no respect for truth, reason, civility or honesty. Their only loyalty is to party. These corrupt BushJr republicans (not the same GOP) are the main perpetrators right now. Clinton was horrible too, so I’m not singling out. Dems only look better by comparison because they’ve been out of power. On balance, I’m convinced it’s generational, boomers, selfish, deceived, and ideological to a fault.
What makes you think they’ll stop by engaging in polite conversation? These are really damn serious times and for the sake of my generation we urgently need to get back to a more centrist, civil, bi-partisan and pragmatic culture of politics. It’s gone way overboard, as Scott McLellan points out.
Answer (from my POV): The wingnuts won’t stop. They never will. They are liars by nature. But we can diminish their standing and cut them down to size by exposing them for what they are, for all of their failures, ignorance and stupidity.
How does a polite and accomodating approach change things?
August 11, 2008 at 9:37 AM #255965ParticipantWhat about me, rus? Aw… I’m offended.
(Kidding, of course.)
Hey rus, seriously. I want to ask you a question. I’m all for truth and honesty, skepticism and critical thinking, civil exchange of views, good dialog and debate and all that, but what makes you think the partisans (eg. liars) are going to stop lying (spewing bullshit), unless we confront them?
We’re going through another cycle in US history where the middle of the country gets marginalized by ranting partisan wingnuts who have no respect for truth, reason, civility or honesty. Their only loyalty is to party. These corrupt BushJr republicans (not the same GOP) are the main perpetrators right now. Clinton was horrible too, so I’m not singling out. Dems only look better by comparison because they’ve been out of power. On balance, I’m convinced it’s generational, boomers, selfish, deceived, and ideological to a fault.
What makes you think they’ll stop by engaging in polite conversation? These are really damn serious times and for the sake of my generation we urgently need to get back to a more centrist, civil, bi-partisan and pragmatic culture of politics. It’s gone way overboard, as Scott McLellan points out.
Answer (from my POV): The wingnuts won’t stop. They never will. They are liars by nature. But we can diminish their standing and cut them down to size by exposing them for what they are, for all of their failures, ignorance and stupidity.
How does a polite and accomodating approach change things?
August 11, 2008 at 10:35 AM #255702Allan from Fallbrook
Participantgandalf: I was going to respond to Casca and his lionizing the Nazis with a quote from Nietzsche (“Whoever fights monsters should take care not to become one”), but I think it is more apropos here.
Why is dialogue, discourse and decorum important? Because it helps separate you from the people you are battling. Another great expression is the one from Booker T. Washington: “One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him.”
Wingnuts are not a just a recent happening. We have always had them. But responding with the same weapons simply coarsens the dialogue, demeans us a civil, thinking society and plays right into their hands (whether they are Dems or Repubs, right or left, etc).
August 11, 2008 at 10:35 AM #255879Participantgandalf: I was going to respond to Casca and his lionizing the Nazis with a quote from Nietzsche (“Whoever fights monsters should take care not to become one”), but I think it is more apropos here.
Why is dialogue, discourse and decorum important? Because it helps separate you from the people you are battling. Another great expression is the one from Booker T. Washington: “One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him.”
Wingnuts are not a just a recent happening. We have always had them. But responding with the same weapons simply coarsens the dialogue, demeans us a civil, thinking society and plays right into their hands (whether they are Dems or Repubs, right or left, etc).
August 11, 2008 at 10:35 AM #255883Participantgandalf: I was going to respond to Casca and his lionizing the Nazis with a quote from Nietzsche (“Whoever fights monsters should take care not to become one”), but I think it is more apropos here.
Why is dialogue, discourse and decorum important? Because it helps separate you from the people you are battling. Another great expression is the one from Booker T. Washington: “One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him.”
Wingnuts are not a just a recent happening. We have always had them. But responding with the same weapons simply coarsens the dialogue, demeans us a civil, thinking society and plays right into their hands (whether they are Dems or Repubs, right or left, etc).
August 11, 2008 at 10:35 AM #255942Participantgandalf: I was going to respond to Casca and his lionizing the Nazis with a quote from Nietzsche (“Whoever fights monsters should take care not to become one”), but I think it is more apropos here.
Why is dialogue, discourse and decorum important? Because it helps separate you from the people you are battling. Another great expression is the one from Booker T. Washington: “One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him.”
Wingnuts are not a just a recent happening. We have always had them. But responding with the same weapons simply coarsens the dialogue, demeans us a civil, thinking society and plays right into their hands (whether they are Dems or Repubs, right or left, etc).
August 11, 2008 at 10:35 AM #255990Participantgandalf: I was going to respond to Casca and his lionizing the Nazis with a quote from Nietzsche (“Whoever fights monsters should take care not to become one”), but I think it is more apropos here.
Why is dialogue, discourse and decorum important? Because it helps separate you from the people you are battling. Another great expression is the one from Booker T. Washington: “One man cannot hold another man down in the ditch without remaining down in the ditch with him.”
Wingnuts are not a just a recent happening. We have always had them. But responding with the same weapons simply coarsens the dialogue, demeans us a civil, thinking society and plays right into their hands (whether they are Dems or Repubs, right or left, etc).
August 11, 2008 at 11:35 AM #255706ParticipantIt’s different for me Gandalf. I am entitled to lecture because I am actually somewhat sincerely participating with you all,for better or for worse.I think you are too.
Not requesting that anyone really be overly polite or accommodating if they are actually engaged.
I think the most to hope from these off topic posts is a little entertainment and perhaps some intellectual enrichment or even personal growth, for those so inclined.
One can teach and influence a very few adults, a very small percentage of the time and although, I blow it all the time, patience and restraint with a modicum of good humour, if not politeness are usually in the mix when it is successful.So is a willing student(and he is not down in that ditch).
I think ZK just set a good example.Although John could probably care less, ZK’s demeanor made his message not go unheard by some of the rest of us. I know Allan is a conservative Republican and I am not, so it had ecumenical value.
August 11, 2008 at 11:35 AM #255884ParticipantIt’s different for me Gandalf. I am entitled to lecture because I am actually somewhat sincerely participating with you all,for better or for worse.I think you are too.
Not requesting that anyone really be overly polite or accommodating if they are actually engaged.
I think the most to hope from these off topic posts is a little entertainment and perhaps some intellectual enrichment or even personal growth, for those so inclined.
One can teach and influence a very few adults, a very small percentage of the time and although, I blow it all the time, patience and restraint with a modicum of good humour, if not politeness are usually in the mix when it is successful.So is a willing student(and he is not down in that ditch).
I think ZK just set a good example.Although John could probably care less, ZK’s demeanor made his message not go unheard by some of the rest of us. I know Allan is a conservative Republican and I am not, so it had ecumenical value.
August 11, 2008 at 11:35 AM #255888ParticipantIt’s different for me Gandalf. I am entitled to lecture because I am actually somewhat sincerely participating with you all,for better or for worse.I think you are too.
Not requesting that anyone really be overly polite or accommodating if they are actually engaged.
I think the most to hope from these off topic posts is a little entertainment and perhaps some intellectual enrichment or even personal growth, for those so inclined.
One can teach and influence a very few adults, a very small percentage of the time and although, I blow it all the time, patience and restraint with a modicum of good humour, if not politeness are usually in the mix when it is successful.So is a willing student(and he is not down in that ditch).
I think ZK just set a good example.Although John could probably care less, ZK’s demeanor made his message not go unheard by some of the rest of us. I know Allan is a conservative Republican and I am not, so it had ecumenical value.
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