OT: Obama is dumber than a box of rocks

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rus: In the Army we had both CRI (cranial rectal inversion) and HUA (head up ass). Both can be terminal, although generally not fatal.

Well, at least you’re not a former Marine.

Hoo-ah.

[NotCranky]

Did you see Rich’s use of tango uniform? It won’t be as cool if I just blurt it out. It is on one of his last couple of posts.

Have a good night.

Oh yeah, before I forget… Putin may be thinking of bring relations back full throttle with Cuba in step with the missile shield deployment.

[NotCranky]

Did you see Rich’s use of tango uniform? It won’t be as cool if I just blurt it out. It is on one of his last couple of posts.

Have a good night.

Oh yeah, before I forget… Putin may be thinking of bring relations back full throttle with Cuba in step with the missile shield deployment.

[NotCranky]

Did you see Rich’s use of tango uniform? It won’t be as cool if I just blurt it out. It is on one of his last couple of posts.

Have a good night.

Oh yeah, before I forget… Putin may be thinking of bring relations back full throttle with Cuba in step with the missile shield deployment.

[NotCranky]

Did you see Rich’s use of tango uniform? It won’t be as cool if I just blurt it out. It is on one of his last couple of posts.

Have a good night.

Oh yeah, before I forget… Putin may be thinking of bring relations back full throttle with Cuba in step with the missile shield deployment.

[NotCranky]

Did you see Rich’s use of tango uniform? It won’t be as cool if I just blurt it out. It is on one of his last couple of posts.

Have a good night.

Oh yeah, before I forget… Putin may be thinking of bring relations back full throttle with Cuba in step with the missile shield deployment.

[Shadowfax]

Rus: I am the 9-5 worker in our family of 4. My 4-year-old is also fond of “poo poo head” so glad to hear it is not unique to her. The 2-year-old is on the bandwagon now too. Won’t use the potty, but sure has a potty mouth thanks to the older sibling’s influence.

I guess I am in the same boat as you–I really don’t have time to “study” these days (unless it’s billable to my job or involves pre-school matters). I have a stack of books from floor to ceiling I hope to read when the kids are both in grade school and I presume I’ll have more time for those pursuits. There are various random things I’ve picked up along the way and some quick internet searches and quick scanning of some major news media (I am partial to Keith Olberman and the Daily Show, so now my Achilles heel is revealed to all the far-right wackos. His “Special Comments” are fantastic–he really is a wonderful, CRITICAL newsman, which is what the media is supposed to be!)

Glad to be here and just trying to participate in the greatest thing our founding fathers left to their progeny–open debate! Oh, and maybe learn a little about the housing market and the general concensus of when we hit bottom so us renters can pounce!

[Shadowfax]

Rus: I am the 9-5 worker in our family of 4. My 4-year-old is also fond of “poo poo head” so glad to hear it is not unique to her. The 2-year-old is on the bandwagon now too. Won’t use the potty, but sure has a potty mouth thanks to the older sibling’s influence.

I guess I am in the same boat as you–I really don’t have time to “study” these days (unless it’s billable to my job or involves pre-school matters). I have a stack of books from floor to ceiling I hope to read when the kids are both in grade school and I presume I’ll have more time for those pursuits. There are various random things I’ve picked up along the way and some quick internet searches and quick scanning of some major news media (I am partial to Keith Olberman and the Daily Show, so now my Achilles heel is revealed to all the far-right wackos. His “Special Comments” are fantastic–he really is a wonderful, CRITICAL newsman, which is what the media is supposed to be!)

Glad to be here and just trying to participate in the greatest thing our founding fathers left to their progeny–open debate! Oh, and maybe learn a little about the housing market and the general concensus of when we hit bottom so us renters can pounce!

[Shadowfax]

Rus: I am the 9-5 worker in our family of 4. My 4-year-old is also fond of “poo poo head” so glad to hear it is not unique to her. The 2-year-old is on the bandwagon now too. Won’t use the potty, but sure has a potty mouth thanks to the older sibling’s influence.

I guess I am in the same boat as you–I really don’t have time to “study” these days (unless it’s billable to my job or involves pre-school matters). I have a stack of books from floor to ceiling I hope to read when the kids are both in grade school and I presume I’ll have more time for those pursuits. There are various random things I’ve picked up along the way and some quick internet searches and quick scanning of some major news media (I am partial to Keith Olberman and the Daily Show, so now my Achilles heel is revealed to all the far-right wackos. His “Special Comments” are fantastic–he really is a wonderful, CRITICAL newsman, which is what the media is supposed to be!)

Glad to be here and just trying to participate in the greatest thing our founding fathers left to their progeny–open debate! Oh, and maybe learn a little about the housing market and the general concensus of when we hit bottom so us renters can pounce!

[Shadowfax]

Rus: I am the 9-5 worker in our family of 4. My 4-year-old is also fond of “poo poo head” so glad to hear it is not unique to her. The 2-year-old is on the bandwagon now too. Won’t use the potty, but sure has a potty mouth thanks to the older sibling’s influence.

I guess I am in the same boat as you–I really don’t have time to “study” these days (unless it’s billable to my job or involves pre-school matters). I have a stack of books from floor to ceiling I hope to read when the kids are both in grade school and I presume I’ll have more time for those pursuits. There are various random things I’ve picked up along the way and some quick internet searches and quick scanning of some major news media (I am partial to Keith Olberman and the Daily Show, so now my Achilles heel is revealed to all the far-right wackos. His “Special Comments” are fantastic–he really is a wonderful, CRITICAL newsman, which is what the media is supposed to be!)

Glad to be here and just trying to participate in the greatest thing our founding fathers left to their progeny–open debate! Oh, and maybe learn a little about the housing market and the general concensus of when we hit bottom so us renters can pounce!

[Shadowfax]

Rus: I am the 9-5 worker in our family of 4. My 4-year-old is also fond of “poo poo head” so glad to hear it is not unique to her. The 2-year-old is on the bandwagon now too. Won’t use the potty, but sure has a potty mouth thanks to the older sibling’s influence.

I guess I am in the same boat as you–I really don’t have time to “study” these days (unless it’s billable to my job or involves pre-school matters). I have a stack of books from floor to ceiling I hope to read when the kids are both in grade school and I presume I’ll have more time for those pursuits. There are various random things I’ve picked up along the way and some quick internet searches and quick scanning of some major news media (I am partial to Keith Olberman and the Daily Show, so now my Achilles heel is revealed to all the far-right wackos. His “Special Comments” are fantastic–he really is a wonderful, CRITICAL newsman, which is what the media is supposed to be!)

Glad to be here and just trying to participate in the greatest thing our founding fathers left to their progeny–open debate! Oh, and maybe learn a little about the housing market and the general concensus of when we hit bottom so us renters can pounce!

[Casca]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Casca: I’m a little curious about your background. I spent three years in a place where torture was commonplace, as was the attitude that the end always justified the means. Having seen firsthand the effects of torture and knowing that it doesn’t work (it yields information of extremely poor value), I don’t advocate it.

What has Gitmo gotten us, in terms of usable intel? Very little, actually. I have friends in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and there has been little in terms of intel yield coming out of Gitmo. How many prosecutions have resulted? Again, very few. So what purpose does it serve? Meanwhile, we are taken to task for it’s existence, and for what it says about how we do business.

My views on the subject are the product of hard won experience. Yours?[/quote]

They say experience is a dear school, and a fool will learn in no other. If you’re speaking from the hard school of experience, then you know that NOBODY here knows anything about what intel has come from Gitmo, and you also know that none involved in the trade would be in a position to share anything with anyone about sources and methods, least of all retirees in Fallbrook. So drop the facade of “inside scoop”.

As for Gitmo being our face to the world. I think you’re right. We lock up the bad guys, feed them full of ice cream, let them pray to Allah five times a day, and hold them in our zoo for the world to see. What barbarians we are. The rest of the human race would have their heads on pikes, and rightly so.

Now I have a supposition based on a rather good understanding of the intel world, and how it should work. The bad guys graduate to Gitmo when they’re exhausted as sources in other more secure locations. It is our human archive of the war. Occasionally we go back and pull one off the shelf, but in all real terms, their information has a very short shelf life, and is spent by the time they get there. We keep them locked up so that they might not live to fight another day. The track record in this department hasn’t been perfect.

As for your position that torture isn’t productive, I’d like to direct you to Anthony Cave Brown’s most excellent work The Secret War Report of the OSS, and the fate of the Jedricks under the questioning of the Sicherheitsdienst. When the SD was finished with you, you were finished. If torture didn’t work in El Salvador, it wasn’t being done right.

Finally, calling waterboarding torture is like calling golf a sport. If you don’t bleed, and you can’t die in the process, it isn’t.

I was going to end this with the previous paragraph, but during review noticed your “How many prosecutions have resulted?” That line alone pegs my bullshit detector. I can’t imagine that a career military officer with a combat arms MOS would say such a thing. Of course there are always a few knuckleheads running around.

[Casca]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Casca: I’m a little curious about your background. I spent three years in a place where torture was commonplace, as was the attitude that the end always justified the means. Having seen firsthand the effects of torture and knowing that it doesn’t work (it yields information of extremely poor value), I don’t advocate it.

What has Gitmo gotten us, in terms of usable intel? Very little, actually. I have friends in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and there has been little in terms of intel yield coming out of Gitmo. How many prosecutions have resulted? Again, very few. So what purpose does it serve? Meanwhile, we are taken to task for it’s existence, and for what it says about how we do business.

My views on the subject are the product of hard won experience. Yours?[/quote]

They say experience is a dear school, and a fool will learn in no other. If you’re speaking from the hard school of experience, then you know that NOBODY here knows anything about what intel has come from Gitmo, and you also know that none involved in the trade would be in a position to share anything with anyone about sources and methods, least of all retirees in Fallbrook. So drop the facade of “inside scoop”.

As for Gitmo being our face to the world. I think you’re right. We lock up the bad guys, feed them full of ice cream, let them pray to Allah five times a day, and hold them in our zoo for the world to see. What barbarians we are. The rest of the human race would have their heads on pikes, and rightly so.

Now I have a supposition based on a rather good understanding of the intel world, and how it should work. The bad guys graduate to Gitmo when they’re exhausted as sources in other more secure locations. It is our human archive of the war. Occasionally we go back and pull one off the shelf, but in all real terms, their information has a very short shelf life, and is spent by the time they get there. We keep them locked up so that they might not live to fight another day. The track record in this department hasn’t been perfect.

As for your position that torture isn’t productive, I’d like to direct you to Anthony Cave Brown’s most excellent work The Secret War Report of the OSS, and the fate of the Jedricks under the questioning of the Sicherheitsdienst. When the SD was finished with you, you were finished. If torture didn’t work in El Salvador, it wasn’t being done right.

Finally, calling waterboarding torture is like calling golf a sport. If you don’t bleed, and you can’t die in the process, it isn’t.

I was going to end this with the previous paragraph, but during review noticed your “How many prosecutions have resulted?” That line alone pegs my bullshit detector. I can’t imagine that a career military officer with a combat arms MOS would say such a thing. Of course there are always a few knuckleheads running around.

[Casca]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Casca: I’m a little curious about your background. I spent three years in a place where torture was commonplace, as was the attitude that the end always justified the means. Having seen firsthand the effects of torture and knowing that it doesn’t work (it yields information of extremely poor value), I don’t advocate it.

What has Gitmo gotten us, in terms of usable intel? Very little, actually. I have friends in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and there has been little in terms of intel yield coming out of Gitmo. How many prosecutions have resulted? Again, very few. So what purpose does it serve? Meanwhile, we are taken to task for it’s existence, and for what it says about how we do business.

My views on the subject are the product of hard won experience. Yours?[/quote]

They say experience is a dear school, and a fool will learn in no other. If you’re speaking from the hard school of experience, then you know that NOBODY here knows anything about what intel has come from Gitmo, and you also know that none involved in the trade would be in a position to share anything with anyone about sources and methods, least of all retirees in Fallbrook. So drop the facade of “inside scoop”.

As for Gitmo being our face to the world. I think you’re right. We lock up the bad guys, feed them full of ice cream, let them pray to Allah five times a day, and hold them in our zoo for the world to see. What barbarians we are. The rest of the human race would have their heads on pikes, and rightly so.

Now I have a supposition based on a rather good understanding of the intel world, and how it should work. The bad guys graduate to Gitmo when they’re exhausted as sources in other more secure locations. It is our human archive of the war. Occasionally we go back and pull one off the shelf, but in all real terms, their information has a very short shelf life, and is spent by the time they get there. We keep them locked up so that they might not live to fight another day. The track record in this department hasn’t been perfect.

As for your position that torture isn’t productive, I’d like to direct you to Anthony Cave Brown’s most excellent work The Secret War Report of the OSS, and the fate of the Jedricks under the questioning of the Sicherheitsdienst. When the SD was finished with you, you were finished. If torture didn’t work in El Salvador, it wasn’t being done right.

Finally, calling waterboarding torture is like calling golf a sport. If you don’t bleed, and you can’t die in the process, it isn’t.

I was going to end this with the previous paragraph, but during review noticed your “How many prosecutions have resulted?” That line alone pegs my bullshit detector. I can’t imagine that a career military officer with a combat arms MOS would say such a thing. Of course there are always a few knuckleheads running around.

[Casca]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Casca: I’m a little curious about your background. I spent three years in a place where torture was commonplace, as was the attitude that the end always justified the means. Having seen firsthand the effects of torture and knowing that it doesn’t work (it yields information of extremely poor value), I don’t advocate it.

What has Gitmo gotten us, in terms of usable intel? Very little, actually. I have friends in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and there has been little in terms of intel yield coming out of Gitmo. How many prosecutions have resulted? Again, very few. So what purpose does it serve? Meanwhile, we are taken to task for it’s existence, and for what it says about how we do business.

My views on the subject are the product of hard won experience. Yours?[/quote]

They say experience is a dear school, and a fool will learn in no other. If you’re speaking from the hard school of experience, then you know that NOBODY here knows anything about what intel has come from Gitmo, and you also know that none involved in the trade would be in a position to share anything with anyone about sources and methods, least of all retirees in Fallbrook. So drop the facade of “inside scoop”.

As for Gitmo being our face to the world. I think you’re right. We lock up the bad guys, feed them full of ice cream, let them pray to Allah five times a day, and hold them in our zoo for the world to see. What barbarians we are. The rest of the human race would have their heads on pikes, and rightly so.

Now I have a supposition based on a rather good understanding of the intel world, and how it should work. The bad guys graduate to Gitmo when they’re exhausted as sources in other more secure locations. It is our human archive of the war. Occasionally we go back and pull one off the shelf, but in all real terms, their information has a very short shelf life, and is spent by the time they get there. We keep them locked up so that they might not live to fight another day. The track record in this department hasn’t been perfect.

As for your position that torture isn’t productive, I’d like to direct you to Anthony Cave Brown’s most excellent work The Secret War Report of the OSS, and the fate of the Jedricks under the questioning of the Sicherheitsdienst. When the SD was finished with you, you were finished. If torture didn’t work in El Salvador, it wasn’t being done right.

Finally, calling waterboarding torture is like calling golf a sport. If you don’t bleed, and you can’t die in the process, it isn’t.

I was going to end this with the previous paragraph, but during review noticed your “How many prosecutions have resulted?” That line alone pegs my bullshit detector. I can’t imagine that a career military officer with a combat arms MOS would say such a thing. Of course there are always a few knuckleheads running around.

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