OT: Obama is dumber than a box of rocks

[Butleroftwo]

UCGal,
That black tar on the beach in Santa Barbara is naturally occurring. This is a pretty well known fact. I am surprised you didn’t ask any locals.
Did you read your second website? You really pulled that quote out of context. Here is another quote from the same site;
“According to a report on “Oil in the Sea” from the National Academy of Sciences (1995), far more oil enters the ocean from natural, underwater seeps than from offshore production platforms. In fact, the seeps introduce about 1700 barrels of oil a day into U.S. marine waters, which is about 150 times the amount from oil and gas activities.”

[urbanrealtor]

Honestly my understanding of Llosa is non-existent.
Marquez and Orwell are incredibly interesting but I have not read enough of them. The one I am working on is The Road to Wigan Pier which seems to spend a lot of time dealing with his frustrations of socialism in action (or inaction).

to digress somewhat:
I have been to Cuba and I think much of the American discourse really misses the point on many fronts. Castro is not of the same harsh breed of Russian or Eastern European reds (although similar in some respects). He is of a totally different type (like, qualitatively) than the junta in North Korea. Kim’s (both of them) approaches were widely shunned in the red world for promoting cult of personality and totalitarianism. While most of the practicing red world cares what you do and say (authoritarianism) few actually care what you think in your own head (totalitarianism).
The version of that Castro’s Cuba I think can be most closely compared to China prior to market reforms. There are almost zero images of Fidel anywhere. Camilo Cienfuegos and Jose Marti and Che Guevara are everywhere. There is a strong nationalist streak and lots of CDR (comite en defensa de la revolucion –more like a red rotary club) posters. Oppression is carried out subtly. Everybody fishes (which is illegal) and everybody carpools (which is sometimes illegal). If someone were to complain about the junta, the person he complained to might tell a CDR member (and get some sort of privilege as a result). The CDR would tell the cops and the normal everyday harmless malpractices would be followed like a hawk and potentially get the complainer fined. Small scale complaining is acceptable but it pays not to do it loudly.
So dissent is stifled but not (as a general rule) in a harsh manner and most government policies are framed in nationalist terms. Lots of signs about how they will never again be a Yankee colony. Ironically there was a grocery store there (outside the Russian (ex-soviet) embassy) that had billboards about Bush (dressed as Hitler) and slogans about Yankees and facism. It took only American dollars. Weird.

[urbanrealtor]

Honestly my understanding of Llosa is non-existent.
Marquez and Orwell are incredibly interesting but I have not read enough of them. The one I am working on is The Road to Wigan Pier which seems to spend a lot of time dealing with his frustrations of socialism in action (or inaction).

to digress somewhat:
I have been to Cuba and I think much of the American discourse really misses the point on many fronts. Castro is not of the same harsh breed of Russian or Eastern European reds (although similar in some respects). He is of a totally different type (like, qualitatively) than the junta in North Korea. Kim’s (both of them) approaches were widely shunned in the red world for promoting cult of personality and totalitarianism. While most of the practicing red world cares what you do and say (authoritarianism) few actually care what you think in your own head (totalitarianism).
The version of that Castro’s Cuba I think can be most closely compared to China prior to market reforms. There are almost zero images of Fidel anywhere. Camilo Cienfuegos and Jose Marti and Che Guevara are everywhere. There is a strong nationalist streak and lots of CDR (comite en defensa de la revolucion –more like a red rotary club) posters. Oppression is carried out subtly. Everybody fishes (which is illegal) and everybody carpools (which is sometimes illegal). If someone were to complain about the junta, the person he complained to might tell a CDR member (and get some sort of privilege as a result). The CDR would tell the cops and the normal everyday harmless malpractices would be followed like a hawk and potentially get the complainer fined. Small scale complaining is acceptable but it pays not to do it loudly.
So dissent is stifled but not (as a general rule) in a harsh manner and most government policies are framed in nationalist terms. Lots of signs about how they will never again be a Yankee colony. Ironically there was a grocery store there (outside the Russian (ex-soviet) embassy) that had billboards about Bush (dressed as Hitler) and slogans about Yankees and facism. It took only American dollars. Weird.

[urbanrealtor]

Honestly my understanding of Llosa is non-existent.
Marquez and Orwell are incredibly interesting but I have not read enough of them. The one I am working on is The Road to Wigan Pier which seems to spend a lot of time dealing with his frustrations of socialism in action (or inaction).

to digress somewhat:
I have been to Cuba and I think much of the American discourse really misses the point on many fronts. Castro is not of the same harsh breed of Russian or Eastern European reds (although similar in some respects). He is of a totally different type (like, qualitatively) than the junta in North Korea. Kim’s (both of them) approaches were widely shunned in the red world for promoting cult of personality and totalitarianism. While most of the practicing red world cares what you do and say (authoritarianism) few actually care what you think in your own head (totalitarianism).
The version of that Castro’s Cuba I think can be most closely compared to China prior to market reforms. There are almost zero images of Fidel anywhere. Camilo Cienfuegos and Jose Marti and Che Guevara are everywhere. There is a strong nationalist streak and lots of CDR (comite en defensa de la revolucion –more like a red rotary club) posters. Oppression is carried out subtly. Everybody fishes (which is illegal) and everybody carpools (which is sometimes illegal). If someone were to complain about the junta, the person he complained to might tell a CDR member (and get some sort of privilege as a result). The CDR would tell the cops and the normal everyday harmless malpractices would be followed like a hawk and potentially get the complainer fined. Small scale complaining is acceptable but it pays not to do it loudly.
So dissent is stifled but not (as a general rule) in a harsh manner and most government policies are framed in nationalist terms. Lots of signs about how they will never again be a Yankee colony. Ironically there was a grocery store there (outside the Russian (ex-soviet) embassy) that had billboards about Bush (dressed as Hitler) and slogans about Yankees and facism. It took only American dollars. Weird.

[urbanrealtor]

Honestly my understanding of Llosa is non-existent.
Marquez and Orwell are incredibly interesting but I have not read enough of them. The one I am working on is The Road to Wigan Pier which seems to spend a lot of time dealing with his frustrations of socialism in action (or inaction).

to digress somewhat:
I have been to Cuba and I think much of the American discourse really misses the point on many fronts. Castro is not of the same harsh breed of Russian or Eastern European reds (although similar in some respects). He is of a totally different type (like, qualitatively) than the junta in North Korea. Kim’s (both of them) approaches were widely shunned in the red world for promoting cult of personality and totalitarianism. While most of the practicing red world cares what you do and say (authoritarianism) few actually care what you think in your own head (totalitarianism).
The version of that Castro’s Cuba I think can be most closely compared to China prior to market reforms. There are almost zero images of Fidel anywhere. Camilo Cienfuegos and Jose Marti and Che Guevara are everywhere. There is a strong nationalist streak and lots of CDR (comite en defensa de la revolucion –more like a red rotary club) posters. Oppression is carried out subtly. Everybody fishes (which is illegal) and everybody carpools (which is sometimes illegal). If someone were to complain about the junta, the person he complained to might tell a CDR member (and get some sort of privilege as a result). The CDR would tell the cops and the normal everyday harmless malpractices would be followed like a hawk and potentially get the complainer fined. Small scale complaining is acceptable but it pays not to do it loudly.
So dissent is stifled but not (as a general rule) in a harsh manner and most government policies are framed in nationalist terms. Lots of signs about how they will never again be a Yankee colony. Ironically there was a grocery store there (outside the Russian (ex-soviet) embassy) that had billboards about Bush (dressed as Hitler) and slogans about Yankees and facism. It took only American dollars. Weird.

[urbanrealtor]

Honestly my understanding of Llosa is non-existent.
Marquez and Orwell are incredibly interesting but I have not read enough of them. The one I am working on is The Road to Wigan Pier which seems to spend a lot of time dealing with his frustrations of socialism in action (or inaction).

to digress somewhat:
I have been to Cuba and I think much of the American discourse really misses the point on many fronts. Castro is not of the same harsh breed of Russian or Eastern European reds (although similar in some respects). He is of a totally different type (like, qualitatively) than the junta in North Korea. Kim’s (both of them) approaches were widely shunned in the red world for promoting cult of personality and totalitarianism. While most of the practicing red world cares what you do and say (authoritarianism) few actually care what you think in your own head (totalitarianism).
The version of that Castro’s Cuba I think can be most closely compared to China prior to market reforms. There are almost zero images of Fidel anywhere. Camilo Cienfuegos and Jose Marti and Che Guevara are everywhere. There is a strong nationalist streak and lots of CDR (comite en defensa de la revolucion –more like a red rotary club) posters. Oppression is carried out subtly. Everybody fishes (which is illegal) and everybody carpools (which is sometimes illegal). If someone were to complain about the junta, the person he complained to might tell a CDR member (and get some sort of privilege as a result). The CDR would tell the cops and the normal everyday harmless malpractices would be followed like a hawk and potentially get the complainer fined. Small scale complaining is acceptable but it pays not to do it loudly.
So dissent is stifled but not (as a general rule) in a harsh manner and most government policies are framed in nationalist terms. Lots of signs about how they will never again be a Yankee colony. Ironically there was a grocery store there (outside the Russian (ex-soviet) embassy) that had billboards about Bush (dressed as Hitler) and slogans about Yankees and facism. It took only American dollars. Weird.

[UCGal]

[quote=Butleroftwo]UCGal,
That black tar on the beach in Santa Barbara is naturally occurring. This is a pretty well known fact. I am surprised you didn’t ask any locals.

Did you read your second website? You really pulled that quote out of context. Here is another quote from the same site;
“According to a report on “Oil in the Sea” from the National Academy of Sciences (1995), far more oil enters the ocean from natural, underwater seeps than from offshore production platforms. In fact, the seeps introduce about 1700 barrels of oil a day into U.S. marine waters, which is about 150 times the amount from oil and gas activities.”

[/quote]
On the first point – no one told me that. I’ll take your word on it till I can verify it. (Reagan’s famous “Trust but Verify” is a good rule to live by.)

On the second point – My argument was that the McCain talking point, oft repeated, that there were NO spills caused by Katrina is simply not accurate. I didn’t suggest that it was the only source of oil, just that there were oil spills from Katrina. McCain has made unequivicable statements that are factually incorrect. But that is common in politics – even from straight shooters.

And, back to the tire guages. Time Magazine posted an article yesterday with the following quote.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html?cnn=yes

But who’s really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

The article then goes on to talk about the tactic of the tire gauge controversy.

As I said in my previous post – tire gauges aren’t the silver bullet, neither is off shore oil drilling. Any solution has to be comprehensive and reduce our dependance on oil, longterm.

[UCGal]

[quote=Butleroftwo]UCGal,
That black tar on the beach in Santa Barbara is naturally occurring. This is a pretty well known fact. I am surprised you didn’t ask any locals.

Did you read your second website? You really pulled that quote out of context. Here is another quote from the same site;
“According to a report on “Oil in the Sea” from the National Academy of Sciences (1995), far more oil enters the ocean from natural, underwater seeps than from offshore production platforms. In fact, the seeps introduce about 1700 barrels of oil a day into U.S. marine waters, which is about 150 times the amount from oil and gas activities.”

[/quote]
On the first point – no one told me that. I’ll take your word on it till I can verify it. (Reagan’s famous “Trust but Verify” is a good rule to live by.)

On the second point – My argument was that the McCain talking point, oft repeated, that there were NO spills caused by Katrina is simply not accurate. I didn’t suggest that it was the only source of oil, just that there were oil spills from Katrina. McCain has made unequivicable statements that are factually incorrect. But that is common in politics – even from straight shooters.

And, back to the tire guages. Time Magazine posted an article yesterday with the following quote.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html?cnn=yes

But who’s really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

The article then goes on to talk about the tactic of the tire gauge controversy.

As I said in my previous post – tire gauges aren’t the silver bullet, neither is off shore oil drilling. Any solution has to be comprehensive and reduce our dependance on oil, longterm.

[UCGal]

[quote=Butleroftwo]UCGal,
That black tar on the beach in Santa Barbara is naturally occurring. This is a pretty well known fact. I am surprised you didn’t ask any locals.

Did you read your second website? You really pulled that quote out of context. Here is another quote from the same site;
“According to a report on “Oil in the Sea” from the National Academy of Sciences (1995), far more oil enters the ocean from natural, underwater seeps than from offshore production platforms. In fact, the seeps introduce about 1700 barrels of oil a day into U.S. marine waters, which is about 150 times the amount from oil and gas activities.”

[/quote]
On the first point – no one told me that. I’ll take your word on it till I can verify it. (Reagan’s famous “Trust but Verify” is a good rule to live by.)

On the second point – My argument was that the McCain talking point, oft repeated, that there were NO spills caused by Katrina is simply not accurate. I didn’t suggest that it was the only source of oil, just that there were oil spills from Katrina. McCain has made unequivicable statements that are factually incorrect. But that is common in politics – even from straight shooters.

And, back to the tire guages. Time Magazine posted an article yesterday with the following quote.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html?cnn=yes

But who’s really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

The article then goes on to talk about the tactic of the tire gauge controversy.

As I said in my previous post – tire gauges aren’t the silver bullet, neither is off shore oil drilling. Any solution has to be comprehensive and reduce our dependance on oil, longterm.

[UCGal]

[quote=Butleroftwo]UCGal,
That black tar on the beach in Santa Barbara is naturally occurring. This is a pretty well known fact. I am surprised you didn’t ask any locals.

Did you read your second website? You really pulled that quote out of context. Here is another quote from the same site;
“According to a report on “Oil in the Sea” from the National Academy of Sciences (1995), far more oil enters the ocean from natural, underwater seeps than from offshore production platforms. In fact, the seeps introduce about 1700 barrels of oil a day into U.S. marine waters, which is about 150 times the amount from oil and gas activities.”

[/quote]
On the first point – no one told me that. I’ll take your word on it till I can verify it. (Reagan’s famous “Trust but Verify” is a good rule to live by.)

On the second point – My argument was that the McCain talking point, oft repeated, that there were NO spills caused by Katrina is simply not accurate. I didn’t suggest that it was the only source of oil, just that there were oil spills from Katrina. McCain has made unequivicable statements that are factually incorrect. But that is common in politics – even from straight shooters.

And, back to the tire guages. Time Magazine posted an article yesterday with the following quote.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html?cnn=yes

But who’s really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

The article then goes on to talk about the tactic of the tire gauge controversy.

As I said in my previous post – tire gauges aren’t the silver bullet, neither is off shore oil drilling. Any solution has to be comprehensive and reduce our dependance on oil, longterm.

[UCGal]

[quote=Butleroftwo]UCGal,
That black tar on the beach in Santa Barbara is naturally occurring. This is a pretty well known fact. I am surprised you didn’t ask any locals.

Did you read your second website? You really pulled that quote out of context. Here is another quote from the same site;
“According to a report on “Oil in the Sea” from the National Academy of Sciences (1995), far more oil enters the ocean from natural, underwater seeps than from offshore production platforms. In fact, the seeps introduce about 1700 barrels of oil a day into U.S. marine waters, which is about 150 times the amount from oil and gas activities.”

[/quote]
On the first point – no one told me that. I’ll take your word on it till I can verify it. (Reagan’s famous “Trust but Verify” is a good rule to live by.)

On the second point – My argument was that the McCain talking point, oft repeated, that there were NO spills caused by Katrina is simply not accurate. I didn’t suggest that it was the only source of oil, just that there were oil spills from Katrina. McCain has made unequivicable statements that are factually incorrect. But that is common in politics – even from straight shooters.

And, back to the tire guages. Time Magazine posted an article yesterday with the following quote.

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html?cnn=yes

But who’s really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

The article then goes on to talk about the tactic of the tire gauge controversy.

As I said in my previous post – tire gauges aren’t the silver bullet, neither is off shore oil drilling. Any solution has to be comprehensive and reduce our dependance on oil, longterm.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan,

Your view of Cuba is a little at odds with Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/englishwr2k7/docs/2007/01/11/cuba14886.htm

My own experiences with Cuba date back to my time in Central America during the 1980s, mainly dealing with the DGI (Cuban intelligence services) boys and their operations in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. They had pretty well infested those countries and were doing a land office business in shipping in ComBloc weapons throughout the region.

I don’t find Fidel’s brand of communism to be very different from the Soviet’s, at least when it comes to “Wars of National Liberation”, such as their intervention in Angola (a little off the beaten path for a Caribbean country).

I recall pictures of Marti being everywhere in Central America as well (the FMLN in Salvador were his namesake), along with Sandino and Che.

On a personal note, I find it revolting that the US maintains a prison (Gitmo) equally as repressive as those found in Cuba. I can’t wait to see that place shut down.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan,

Your view of Cuba is a little at odds with Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/englishwr2k7/docs/2007/01/11/cuba14886.htm

My own experiences with Cuba date back to my time in Central America during the 1980s, mainly dealing with the DGI (Cuban intelligence services) boys and their operations in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. They had pretty well infested those countries and were doing a land office business in shipping in ComBloc weapons throughout the region.

I don’t find Fidel’s brand of communism to be very different from the Soviet’s, at least when it comes to “Wars of National Liberation”, such as their intervention in Angola (a little off the beaten path for a Caribbean country).

I recall pictures of Marti being everywhere in Central America as well (the FMLN in Salvador were his namesake), along with Sandino and Che.

On a personal note, I find it revolting that the US maintains a prison (Gitmo) equally as repressive as those found in Cuba. I can’t wait to see that place shut down.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan,

Your view of Cuba is a little at odds with Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/englishwr2k7/docs/2007/01/11/cuba14886.htm

My own experiences with Cuba date back to my time in Central America during the 1980s, mainly dealing with the DGI (Cuban intelligence services) boys and their operations in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. They had pretty well infested those countries and were doing a land office business in shipping in ComBloc weapons throughout the region.

I don’t find Fidel’s brand of communism to be very different from the Soviet’s, at least when it comes to “Wars of National Liberation”, such as their intervention in Angola (a little off the beaten path for a Caribbean country).

I recall pictures of Marti being everywhere in Central America as well (the FMLN in Salvador were his namesake), along with Sandino and Che.

On a personal note, I find it revolting that the US maintains a prison (Gitmo) equally as repressive as those found in Cuba. I can’t wait to see that place shut down.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan,

Your view of Cuba is a little at odds with Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/englishwr2k7/docs/2007/01/11/cuba14886.htm

My own experiences with Cuba date back to my time in Central America during the 1980s, mainly dealing with the DGI (Cuban intelligence services) boys and their operations in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. They had pretty well infested those countries and were doing a land office business in shipping in ComBloc weapons throughout the region.

I don’t find Fidel’s brand of communism to be very different from the Soviet’s, at least when it comes to “Wars of National Liberation”, such as their intervention in Angola (a little off the beaten path for a Caribbean country).

I recall pictures of Marti being everywhere in Central America as well (the FMLN in Salvador were his namesake), along with Sandino and Che.

On a personal note, I find it revolting that the US maintains a prison (Gitmo) equally as repressive as those found in Cuba. I can’t wait to see that place shut down.

[Author]

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