OT: Obama is dumber than a box of rocks

[Allan from Fallbrook]

toots: I think there needs to be a distinction between liberals and left-wingers. I think the word “liberal” is a good word, and not a pejorative, but I loathe left-wingers.

As I’m sure gandalf would be the first to tell you, I am extremely conservative, in the old school Goldwater Republican camp. I would never accuse a liberal of hating their country, but would accuse a left-winger of doing so.

It is much akin to Susan Sontag opining after 9/11 that we “deserved” it. While I feel that our foreign policy in the Middle East has run between complete ignorance and ineptitude, claiming that Osama bin Laden was justified in his actions is beyond the pale and contemptible.

I don’t hold that we are above criticism. To the contrary, I believe that we need to change our approach in that part of the world and that the past 50 years have shown significant errors in our relationships and our strategies. Support for countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt are going to come back to haunt us, and we need to see that part of the world in a whole new way.

All of that being said, however, I don’t feel that either of the candidates is a good choice for that particular job. I have McCain on one hand openly advocating the bombing of Iran and Obama on the other completely missing the point as to why Iran should not have The Bomb.

[gandalf]

That’s a good post. Three questions:

1. What were some of the missed opportunities post-9/11?
2. What if we had occupied Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq?
3. Do you feel like we’ve lost the upper hand with Iran?

My pick for #1 is energy policy. I think we should have pivoted the very next day, Apollo Mission to get off foreign oil any which way we can.

Another #1, could we have snuffed out AQ by now with better support from Pakistan? Would Pakistan be providing better cover/cooperation if we hadn’t invaded Iraq?

With #2, worth noting that the hijackers were Saudi and fanatical Wahhabism Islam originates with the Saudis.

Feedback? Reaction?

[gandalf]

That’s a good post. Three questions:

1. What were some of the missed opportunities post-9/11?
2. What if we had occupied Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq?
3. Do you feel like we’ve lost the upper hand with Iran?

My pick for #1 is energy policy. I think we should have pivoted the very next day, Apollo Mission to get off foreign oil any which way we can.

Another #1, could we have snuffed out AQ by now with better support from Pakistan? Would Pakistan be providing better cover/cooperation if we hadn’t invaded Iraq?

With #2, worth noting that the hijackers were Saudi and fanatical Wahhabism Islam originates with the Saudis.

Feedback? Reaction?

[gandalf]

That’s a good post. Three questions:

1. What were some of the missed opportunities post-9/11?
2. What if we had occupied Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq?
3. Do you feel like we’ve lost the upper hand with Iran?

My pick for #1 is energy policy. I think we should have pivoted the very next day, Apollo Mission to get off foreign oil any which way we can.

Another #1, could we have snuffed out AQ by now with better support from Pakistan? Would Pakistan be providing better cover/cooperation if we hadn’t invaded Iraq?

With #2, worth noting that the hijackers were Saudi and fanatical Wahhabism Islam originates with the Saudis.

Feedback? Reaction?

[gandalf]

That’s a good post. Three questions:

1. What were some of the missed opportunities post-9/11?
2. What if we had occupied Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq?
3. Do you feel like we’ve lost the upper hand with Iran?

My pick for #1 is energy policy. I think we should have pivoted the very next day, Apollo Mission to get off foreign oil any which way we can.

Another #1, could we have snuffed out AQ by now with better support from Pakistan? Would Pakistan be providing better cover/cooperation if we hadn’t invaded Iraq?

With #2, worth noting that the hijackers were Saudi and fanatical Wahhabism Islam originates with the Saudis.

Feedback? Reaction?

[gandalf]

That’s a good post. Three questions:

1. What were some of the missed opportunities post-9/11?
2. What if we had occupied Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq?
3. Do you feel like we’ve lost the upper hand with Iran?

My pick for #1 is energy policy. I think we should have pivoted the very next day, Apollo Mission to get off foreign oil any which way we can.

Another #1, could we have snuffed out AQ by now with better support from Pakistan? Would Pakistan be providing better cover/cooperation if we hadn’t invaded Iraq?

With #2, worth noting that the hijackers were Saudi and fanatical Wahhabism Islam originates with the Saudis.

Feedback? Reaction?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gandalf: I’d have to think about #1 before answering.

On #2: What do you think the Arab world would have done if the US occupied the country of Mecca and Medina? Hol-ee cow! I can only imagine the repercussions if that had happened.

On #3: Good question. I think our willingness to engage them diplomatically at this point is both good and bad. Good in that it signals to the people of Iran that we are not intransigent and are willing to give negotiation a shot. Bad in that signals to the hardliners of that country that the US is willing to parlay in spite of our abhorrence of that regime. I cannot help but think that I-Am-A-Dinner-Jacket and his cohort are laughing their asses off at us right now. This must be perceived as a show of weakness and it exposes Bush as a true lame duck who is ideologically adrift even within his own party.

I would throw a #1 back at you: What does the changed state of the war in Iraq do as far as the landscape and politics of the region go? I have two friends in country in Iraq, one is a Major and the other a LTC. Both report how quiet things are, the markedly changed mood among US soldiers, Iraqi soldiers and police and the populace at large. Both of them are discussing the war in terms of it being won and both of them were discussing the war as a potential lost cause as little as a year ago.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gandalf: I’d have to think about #1 before answering.

On #2: What do you think the Arab world would have done if the US occupied the country of Mecca and Medina? Hol-ee cow! I can only imagine the repercussions if that had happened.

On #3: Good question. I think our willingness to engage them diplomatically at this point is both good and bad. Good in that it signals to the people of Iran that we are not intransigent and are willing to give negotiation a shot. Bad in that signals to the hardliners of that country that the US is willing to parlay in spite of our abhorrence of that regime. I cannot help but think that I-Am-A-Dinner-Jacket and his cohort are laughing their asses off at us right now. This must be perceived as a show of weakness and it exposes Bush as a true lame duck who is ideologically adrift even within his own party.

I would throw a #1 back at you: What does the changed state of the war in Iraq do as far as the landscape and politics of the region go? I have two friends in country in Iraq, one is a Major and the other a LTC. Both report how quiet things are, the markedly changed mood among US soldiers, Iraqi soldiers and police and the populace at large. Both of them are discussing the war in terms of it being won and both of them were discussing the war as a potential lost cause as little as a year ago.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gandalf: I’d have to think about #1 before answering.

On #2: What do you think the Arab world would have done if the US occupied the country of Mecca and Medina? Hol-ee cow! I can only imagine the repercussions if that had happened.

On #3: Good question. I think our willingness to engage them diplomatically at this point is both good and bad. Good in that it signals to the people of Iran that we are not intransigent and are willing to give negotiation a shot. Bad in that signals to the hardliners of that country that the US is willing to parlay in spite of our abhorrence of that regime. I cannot help but think that I-Am-A-Dinner-Jacket and his cohort are laughing their asses off at us right now. This must be perceived as a show of weakness and it exposes Bush as a true lame duck who is ideologically adrift even within his own party.

I would throw a #1 back at you: What does the changed state of the war in Iraq do as far as the landscape and politics of the region go? I have two friends in country in Iraq, one is a Major and the other a LTC. Both report how quiet things are, the markedly changed mood among US soldiers, Iraqi soldiers and police and the populace at large. Both of them are discussing the war in terms of it being won and both of them were discussing the war as a potential lost cause as little as a year ago.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gandalf: I’d have to think about #1 before answering.

On #2: What do you think the Arab world would have done if the US occupied the country of Mecca and Medina? Hol-ee cow! I can only imagine the repercussions if that had happened.

On #3: Good question. I think our willingness to engage them diplomatically at this point is both good and bad. Good in that it signals to the people of Iran that we are not intransigent and are willing to give negotiation a shot. Bad in that signals to the hardliners of that country that the US is willing to parlay in spite of our abhorrence of that regime. I cannot help but think that I-Am-A-Dinner-Jacket and his cohort are laughing their asses off at us right now. This must be perceived as a show of weakness and it exposes Bush as a true lame duck who is ideologically adrift even within his own party.

I would throw a #1 back at you: What does the changed state of the war in Iraq do as far as the landscape and politics of the region go? I have two friends in country in Iraq, one is a Major and the other a LTC. Both report how quiet things are, the markedly changed mood among US soldiers, Iraqi soldiers and police and the populace at large. Both of them are discussing the war in terms of it being won and both of them were discussing the war as a potential lost cause as little as a year ago.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

gandalf: I’d have to think about #1 before answering.

On #2: What do you think the Arab world would have done if the US occupied the country of Mecca and Medina? Hol-ee cow! I can only imagine the repercussions if that had happened.

On #3: Good question. I think our willingness to engage them diplomatically at this point is both good and bad. Good in that it signals to the people of Iran that we are not intransigent and are willing to give negotiation a shot. Bad in that signals to the hardliners of that country that the US is willing to parlay in spite of our abhorrence of that regime. I cannot help but think that I-Am-A-Dinner-Jacket and his cohort are laughing their asses off at us right now. This must be perceived as a show of weakness and it exposes Bush as a true lame duck who is ideologically adrift even within his own party.

I would throw a #1 back at you: What does the changed state of the war in Iraq do as far as the landscape and politics of the region go? I have two friends in country in Iraq, one is a Major and the other a LTC. Both report how quiet things are, the markedly changed mood among US soldiers, Iraqi soldiers and police and the populace at large. Both of them are discussing the war in terms of it being won and both of them were discussing the war as a potential lost cause as little as a year ago.

[Casca]

[quote=toots]Enlighten me more. I’m listening.

ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]

No, you’re taunting, big difference. McCain wasn’t the subject here, nor were the twisted motives of liberals. I’m sorry that you and all of your friends are liberals. You travel in a very narrow universe.

[Casca]

[quote=toots]Enlighten me more. I’m listening.

ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]

No, you’re taunting, big difference. McCain wasn’t the subject here, nor were the twisted motives of liberals. I’m sorry that you and all of your friends are liberals. You travel in a very narrow universe.

[Casca]

[quote=toots]Enlighten me more. I’m listening.

ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]

No, you’re taunting, big difference. McCain wasn’t the subject here, nor were the twisted motives of liberals. I’m sorry that you and all of your friends are liberals. You travel in a very narrow universe.

[Casca]

[quote=toots]Enlighten me more. I’m listening.

ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]

No, you’re taunting, big difference. McCain wasn’t the subject here, nor were the twisted motives of liberals. I’m sorry that you and all of your friends are liberals. You travel in a very narrow universe.

[Author]

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