OT: Math

[ucodegen]

[quote=an]You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you’re assuming at all Asians are the same. There’s a huge difference between Chinese/Korean/Japanese with highly educated parents immigrant vs Hmong, Laotian, Cambodian who in general don’t value education as much.[/quote]
I do know that there is a significant difference between the different ‘Asians’. One thing that tends to be more significant overall is the tendency to help family members. It is something that I am seeing getting lost in white and black families these days… of course there are always exceptions.

[quote=an]As the Yale lawsuit shows, you’re 1/10 likely to get into Yale as an Asian compare to Black, but only 1/4 less likely if you’re White. So, as a whole, you’re worst off being Asian.[/quote]
Reference for the statistics??
BTW; I assume you are referring to this lawsuit.. ???
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/politics/yale-university-affirmative-action-lawsuit/index.html

[sdrealtor]

[quote=an][quote=sdrealtor]I think he was referring to admission policies. Honestly hearing these stories makes my heart ache for the unfairness. At the same time I wonder if some of this has to do with being first genereation American born or immigrants. Im not saying its fair but people like to work with people like them and the more recent arrivals are less assimilated to Amercian culture. Looking at friends that are second generation American born many are diehard fans of the American pro sports, golf etc. They interact seamlessly with us “white folk” whereas the first generation ones struggle more. I wonder if just being here a few generations has something to do with ones ability to socially network. Again not saying its right or fair but Id hypothosize that your kids may have an easier time just due to being more assimilated to American culture their whole lives.[/quote]
Assimilation can only take you so far. If you’re Asian w/ an Asian last name, you’ll still be discriminated at top tier universities (except for UC, since affirmative action was removed 20ish years ago. But democrats here have been proposing to bring it back for the last few years) when applying, or when applying for a job in tech. I had one boss tell me diversity is not hiring all Asian male and that I need to try harder to increase the diversity of my team.

This would only be a non-issue if you’re a mix race and hide your Asian-ness.[/quote]

I was referring to assimilation out in the working world not colleges. At the top colleges children of alumni also have a huge advantage. Also your first generation American born, I think your kids will have it better as will theirs even better. My parents were first generation and I noticed advantages growing up to families that had been here a generation earlier. We learn to play the game better the longer we are here. Lastly you only know life in CA. Having spent half my life back east the power of social networks is far more powerful there than here. Things seem much more merit based out here which works to your advantage compared to there

[an]

[quote=ucodegen]
I do know that there is a significant difference between the different ‘Asians’. One thing that tends to be more significant overall is the tendency to help family members. It is something that I am seeing getting lost in white and black families these days… of course there are always exceptions.[/quote]
What you describe here is correct in general when compare Asian vs white. But the help that Asian family give each other is nowhere near enough to compensate for the cultural and racial advantage of being white. It’s also sad that you’re comparing Asian to white, instead of being compared to blacks and hispanics. Asian is still a minority group.

[quote=ucodegen]Reference for the statistics??
BTW; I assume you are referring to this lawsuit.. ???
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/politics/yale-university-affirmative-action-lawsuit/index.html%5B/quote%5D
Yep, that’s the one and that’s where I got my stats.

[an]

[quote=sdrealtor]I was referring to assimilation out in the working world not colleges. At the top colleges children of alumni also have a huge advantage. Also your first generation American born, I think your kids will have it better as will theirs even better. My parents were first generation and I noticed advantages growing up to families that had been here a generation earlier. We learn to play the game better the longer we are here. Lastly you only know life in CA. Having spent half my life back east the power of social networks is far more powerful there than here. Things seem much more merit based out here which works to your advantage compared to there[/quote]
100% agree. However, it’s unfair to give Asian 1 generation when both Blacks and Hispanics have been here in America much longer than Asians.

[sdrealtor]

Whoever said life was fair besides a kindergarten teacher?

And Asians have been here just as long. My hypothesis applies more to a person than a race. Once that family has been here a few generations those differences in social networks as a means of getting ahead seem to even out quite a bit. I think your kids are on the cusp of that. An example would be you were likely driven to succeed through education alone by your parents and may not have participated in lots of youth sports leagues. I’m sure your weekends are consumed with kids soccer when growing up yours likely weren’t. Maybe they were but I think you’ll get my point

[an]

[quote=sdrealtor]Whoever said life was fair besides a kindergarten teacher?

And Asians have been here just as long. My hypothesis applies more to a person than a race. Once that family has been here a few generations those differences in social networks as a means of getting ahead seem to even out quite a bit. I think your kids are on the cusp of that. An example would be you were likely driven to succeed through education alone by your parents and may not have participated in lots of youth sports leagues. I’m sure your weekends are consumed with kids soccer when growing up yours likely weren’t. Maybe they were but I think you’ll get my point[/quote]
Again, 100% agree. Being an immigrant, I know and experienced firsthand the statement of “life’s not fair”. I don’t expect life to be fair. I teach my kids that life is not fair, and you will have people making it hard for them. There’s no point in dwelling on things that you can’t control and work on things that you can (your mindset and perseverance). You can’t change how people think about you, but you can work twice as hard as the next person.

I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of all the people who make these policy decisions to make “life fair”, only to end up hurting Asians even more than if they do nothing. That’s my main gripe. Stop proposing discriminating policy to solve discrimination. Policies in government, schools, and businesses. I’ve seen them all.

[sdrealtor]

Agree at the end of the day as much as we may want to help others our first responsibility is to our own

[phaster]

[quote=Coronita][quote=paulflorez][quote=Coronita]See if I was black, I probably would have been hired according to what Eric said.[/quote]

Black engineers continue to have an abysmally low rate of representation in engineering. Sounds like Eric was feeding you bullshit. Eric would not have hired you if you were Black. Eric wanted to hire another Eric. That’s still how the industry is. People hire people who are like them and avoid hiring people who are different. Not only does it hurt under-represented minorities, but it also hurts the ability of businesses to innovate. Echo chambers are not the optimal places for innovation.[/quote]

…I think when I retire from this industry maybe in 1-2 years if they fire/lay me off with my half golden parachute, I’m contemplating publishing my memoirs on LinkedIn just to stir the pot:

“Memoirs of an Angry Asian American Engineer That Got Fucked Over Many Times By Unconscious and Conscious Bias”

Since at that point I won’t give a shit which bridges I burn.

I would have a lot to say on both the general problem of these biases and how any sort of affirmative action is just lipstick on a pig and not really doing shit to solve the problem, just pretending to fix the problem..At least in engineering though, these biases don’t bubble up nearly as frequently as in other industries , at least not until you get into senior leadership roles.[/quote]

if your engineering memoirs get made into a movie or tv-show,…just a “casting” suggest, consider a UCSD alum who happens to be “asian” play you

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/richest-comedians/jimmy-o-yang-net-worth/

[phaster]

FWIW,…

[quote]
If California education officials have their way, generations of students may not know how to calculate an apartment’s square footage or the area of a farm field, but the “mathematics” of political agitation and organizing will be second nature to them. Encouraging those gifted in math to shine will be a distant memory.

This will be the result if a proposed mathematics curriculum framework, which would guide K-12 instruction in the Golden State’s public schools, is approved by California’s Instructional Quality Commission in meetings this week and in August and ratified by the state board of education later this year.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/california-leftists-try-to-cancel-math-class-11621355858?st=676fzqjec0t6m3t&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
[/quote]

doing a quick google search, found a video about equitable math,… and my first thought was the expression,… “GIGO” (garbage in garbage out)

the reason “GIGO” this came to mind is because I view science as being color blind (for lack of the better term),… in other words gravity does not give a damn whether a person is pigmentally challenged or not,… if an idiots steps off a bridge I’m 100% certain gravity does not care about the color a person’s skin

the reason I point out the law of gravity is because I get the feeling that proponents of “equitable math” seems to want to force a discussion about racism before any teaching of math (I’ve time marked a youtube video so you all can hear exactly what is proposed,… like “freedom dreaming” exercises?!)

FYI the reason I thought of the programming expression “GIGO” is because IMHO math is all about being exact,… IOW the recent first flight of “ingenuity” happened to succeed because of exact calculations AND if the scientists (who designed and built “ingenuity”) had to sit through political correctness courses before taking hard core math and science courses,… gut feeling is many would say having to take time off learn about racism (which in no way affects flight performance of a spacecraft on another planet) is an unnecessary complication and is off putting

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasas-perseverance-captures-video-audio-of-fourth-ingenuity-flight

said another way as I see things seems social justice warriors (for lack of a better term) are trying to interject their political bias into the subjects of math/science AND doing so IMHO actually does more harm than good because of a dumbing down effect rather than being encouraging (for example)

https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8756/my-culture-my-voice/

[David J]

I have three children (2 boys and 1 girl); all three are strong in math and all three are in SDUSD. I’ve watched advanced math quickly fall out of favor in the district and from the looks of it, the problem will get worse. I’m hoping I’ll be able to enroll them in community college math courses, but we’ll see.

Since a lot of this thread has been about hiring biases, I’ll share my own personal anecdote. I’m Jewish, but I’m not sure it is very obvious from looking at me. Several years after college (same alma mater as Coronita) and during a stint in the Army Reserves, I decided I needed to leave my private sector software engineering job for something in government as the company I worked for really hated the fact that I had to take time off on occasion as part of my Army Reserve obligation.

One of my interviews was with a department at UCSD for a job that my experience lined up with quite well. The interview went really well from my point of view… The technical questions were cake and there really didn’t seem to be any problems. At the end of the interview, the female Asian department head thanked me for coming, but said that my military background would cause problems because the staff is very liberal and conservatives would not fit in with the other employees. I was taken aback for a couple of reasons. First, I couldn’t believe she was admitting this, and second, I was, politically, very much a liberal! I didn’t see a point in arguing with her, so I left. This incident to this day upsets me and has left me with a really bad taste toward academia.

[Anonymous]

[quote=David J]
One of my interviews was with a department at UCSD for a job that my experience lined up with quite well. The interview went really well from my point of view… The technical questions were cake and there really didn’t seem to be any problems. At the end of the interview, the female Asian department head thanked me for coming, but said that my military background would cause problems because the staff is very liberal and conservatives would not fit in with the other employees. I was taken aback for a couple of reasons. First, I couldn’t believe she was admitting this, and second, I was, politically, very much a liberal! I didn’t see a point in arguing with her, so I left. This incident to this day upsets me and has left me with a really bad taste toward academia.[/quote]

When did this happen Dave? I am surprised because I was also in the Reserves and it seemed like if anything there was an over-appreciation for military service from the private sector, especially here in San Diego. This really became obvious after 9/11 and OEF/OIF. I didn’t feel comfortable with all of the attaboys from the public cause I didn’t do crap and definitely was not in favor of any of these wars either. Although if I was looking for a new job in the private tech sector during that time of OEF/OIF, I can certainly imagine that the hiring managers would reject me due to fear of me being mobilized for 6 months or more. Of course they could never admit to that, but frankly I couldn’t blame them either.

[an]

Thanks for sharing David J. I always find it ironic that they social justice people who yelled the loudest about inclusion and acceptance are sometime some of the most intollerant.

[David J]

My interview was July, 2008 (still have all the email correspondence). I was deployed to Iraq for well over a year and got back home in July of 2007. At that time, for my specialty, it was very common to be deployed again shortly after returning and I would constantly get warnings that my name was on a deployment list.

As soon as I got back the company I worked at while I was deployed just made everything so difficult. The company was based out of Los Angeles.

[Anonymous]

[quote=David J]My interview was July, 2008 (still have all the email correspondence). I was deployed to Iraq for well over a year and got back home in July of 2007. At that time, for my specialty, it was very common to be deployed again shortly after returning and I would constantly get warnings that my name was on a deployment list.

As soon as I got back the company I worked at while I was deployed just made everything so difficult. The company was based out of Los Angeles.[/quote]

It sounds like they were maybe just trying to makes excuses not to hire you. The real reason is most likely for fear of you being mobilized. The whole politics argument is non-sense, still unbelievable they would admit that to you.

[David J]

[quote=deadzone][quote=David J]My interview was July, 2008 (still have all the email correspondence). I was deployed to Iraq for well over a year and got back home in July of 2007. At that time, for my specialty, it was very common to be deployed again shortly after returning and I would constantly get warnings that my name was on a deployment list.

As soon as I got back the company I worked at while I was deployed just made everything so difficult. The company was based out of Los Angeles.[/quote]

It sounds like they were maybe just trying to makes excuses not to hire you. The real reason is most likely for fear of you being mobilized. The whole politics argument is non-sense, still unbelievable they would admit that to you.[/quote]

She didn’t need to make any excuse aside from saying, “we’ll let you know one way or other what we decide.” This was at the end of my last interview of the day and she just voluntarily told me this. It isn’t like I had asked her when I start or anything; it was completely out of the blue.

[Author]

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